Lottie Linda

I agree with you but do want to point out it isn't only 'the wealthy' that sail in those suites. There are people who saved for years for that experience once in their life. Maybe they are celebrating a major life event? There are those who put the charge on their credit card and pay for it months/years later. :rolleyes: But yes, there are some who can well afford that accommodation. I would be very surprised if you heard any such comments about bedding, foo foo restaurants or anything 'class related' by crew or guests. I cannot remember ever hearing such conversations.

 

Many years ago, the rich would understate their wealth. Rolls Royce looked an awful lot like Ramblers, and Rolex and Timex didn't look so different. Today the wealthy display all their wealth, they even have shows about how rich they are. The majority begin to covet, they go into debt to have the same bling as J.Z. or commit crime to have the latest unaffordable athletic shoes. Soon the majority will resent the rich.

Same with cruising with a two class cruise system. I don't want to feel second class on my vacation.

My first cruise with HAL I got an amazing upgrade. From deep in the inner bowels to just about the top of the veranda suites! I 'd show up to the main dining room and I was given what I thought were the best seating, my cabin stewards were good looking considerate workers.

Compare to my latest outing on HAL, where I did not get an upgrade from obstructed view. The stewards were strange looking and indifferent. I'd show up to the MDR and the host would ask my room number, then I'd be led to seating that was as close to the dishwasher as any.

Even though I paid substantially less for the veranda, with the OV it seems the crew went out of their way to show me a second class experience.

I shouldn't even bother posting, I refuse to cruise again until the cruise lines stop with the cost cutting and return to adding value.

Are there any celebrities cruising on Celebrity? Has anyone met a celebrity on a cruise? I mean not one being paid to be there.

I have worked in country clubs and have worked for the ultra rich. The luxury they enjoy is something I never even imagined. I don't read celebrity/fan magazines, I wouldn't know a Kardashian if it slapped me, 240 ct sheets vs. 1600 ct sheets doesn't affect my sleep. and I don't LV from Fruit of the Loom. I don't covet their wealth.

I don't mind the wealthy having perks and luxury beyond my dreams. What I do mind is having it thrown into my face. Before I go for dinner at the Lido, I don't need to be told that the food at the Foo-Foo Café is much better. Should I be told that my bedding is only good enough and certainly not luxurious. Need I go to shows where the best seats are unattainable for people of my class? And most of all, I don't want my partner being constantly reminded our vacation is less than it could be. Sometimes it seems money is spent to remind economy class sucks, money that could have gone to making economy better.

Lottie,

You obviously are quite sure that the "company" is charging you more because THEY offer me the chance for THEM to use my money for a year or more. I have no argument for such conviction.

Holding your money? Why let someone "hold your money"? For what? You want HAL to hold your money, then buy the stock. Plenty of rewards for them holding my money (OBC, dividends, capital gains).

When you're ready to go, when you're to pay for the trip, when you're pretty sure you'll be up to it, then pay the money.

If you don't have enough money right now- wait! A cruise is nothing to go into debt over.

Don't know how well your health will be? Wait! I am a first class example not to cruise if not in good health. All kinds of exposures can make a cruise a trip to hell.

Princess got to use $2900 of our money for 10 months; that WAS the handshake. Like others are writing, I would not have made that "agreement" if it had not been refundable. Tying up almost $3K for a marginal itinerary (but the only one fitting our schedules at the time) was enough of a risk, and I'm sure they didn't have ANY trouble re-filling the cabins as they were very desirable, and they had 95 days to do it.

 

While I do NOT intend to cancel the HAL cruise I booked when I saw the much more interesting itinerary for 2017... I still would not have booked if it hadn't been refundable. The health picture of people of our ages can change drastically in 15 months!

 

So the idea that this change will make people book further out doesn't work for me. Without the refundable (although significant, dollar-wise) deposit, I would instead be looking at last-minute (after final payment date) bargains... and often that would mean not cruising at all, what with having to get FOUR people's schedules in line.

Though I wish you continued good health; Why should I have to pay for your uncertainty?

I have been having a battle with cancer for more than I year. I have planned several vacations in that time- some I took and others I didn't. In every case I balanced the uncertainty against the discount. And I must say, I have come out ahead in every case.

I would never think of holding up a cabin for a year or two. It's not fair to the company and it isn't fair to other customers. I have yet to be turned away because there were no vacancies or a suitable substitute. Plan to book late or plan to buy insurance, but expecting me to pick up the tab if you refuse to do either is not fair.

HAL has now followed the Lead of Carnival and Princess with a new offer with Non-Refundable Deposits. This is something NEW and one must be aware that you may see pricing that is in some cases only about $30.00 per person lower yet in other cases with a travel agency having any special pricing the difference can be $300.00+ less per person. Also it is Non Transferable and No Name Changes. So you cannot just move the deposit to another sailing date.

My understanding this could be the waive of the future where once you book that deposit will be non refundable. It already happens with many River Cruises and other types of travel. As well of those in other countries.

My speculation is that by 2018 or maybe earlier all will require a non-refundable deposit.

I'm glad there is a "no changing your mind" option. I resent paying extra because the vendor has to estimate there is a chance that I will request a refund. Which is a cost the CL has to pass on to the passengers. To opt out and receive a discount is one way to reduce cost without reducing the experience. I consider a reservation to be a handshake by both parties.

Once again, the exchange rate is not a mark-up. 1.40 CAD is not 40% more value than 1.00 USD. It's the same value. USD and CAD are not the same, and are not intended to be the same.

 

USD and CAD are not traded at par, except by chance occasionally. If you don't get it, I advise you do convert your dollars to Japanese yen, and you will be independently wealthy for the rest of your life; filthy rich. It makes about as much sense as calling the CAD/USD exchange rate a "mark-up".

Reminds me of a bit on the Howard Stern Show, called "Who Wants To Be A (Turkish) Millionaire". Contestants answered questions to win $1,000,000 Turkish. Many of the contestants were furious when they went to cash their million Turkish dollars it was about $17.00 American. Hilarious!

Thank you for writing this.

 

From a Canadian who might have to cancel her cruise plans for the months to come... Think before labelling us as "whiners".

Maple syrup is much more affordable to Americans. So is a weekend getaway in Montreal.

Canada is America's largest trading partner. America is at a distinct disadvantage, now. Think how many motel owners in south New Jersey or Florida will now have empty rooms because Canadians feel they can't afford that vacation.

Not to mention the hit on American vending machine operators when they get boxes of Canadian quarters.

If one could think of something that would entice Americans to come and spend their powerful dollars in Canada, then one could easily afford a cruise upgrade.

Many Americans think Justin Bieber was elected President of Canada. Take advantage of that and you'll have Americans coming in droves.

Oh, make it easier to cross into Canada, being turned away because one has not kept up with his lawn is not cool!

Wow! 700 bucks a day!!! I can only imagine what some of my most recent vacations would be like if I had spent $700 a day.

First, I don't think spending six hours in a city is seeing that city, I consider it a layover. And I seldom leave the airport during a layover, just too much trouble.

My last few vacations I can not think how one could spend $700 a day. The Black Hills of South Dakota it would be impossible, as far as I know. One would have to look very hard for a suite that cost more than $200. And the best dinners can be had for less than twenty.

Olympic National Park would too be impossible to spend $700 unless one was flying in live Maine lobsters three times daily.

Seattle can be done for less and still seem luxurious. San Francisco could possibly test the $700 limit, but it wouldn't be low end luxury, either. Disney, either Land or World, can be fully experienced for less than $700 and that would include the whole Princess experience.

I recently did a Denver tour. Much less than $700 and not once did I feel I was roughing it (now I know why they call it The Mile High City).

I suppose that some people like cruising enough to think $700 a day is value. I just wish I could be their travel agent and plan a week for them in the Pacific Northwest. I could take that five grand, book a luxurious week and still have enough left over to take a modest vacation myself.

Again, all I'm saying is; was HAL negligent? I for one cannot say for sure, and neither can anyone here on CC without a whole lot more information.

 

Sorry for the rant.

Who can say for sure? Maybe the jury that sat through the whole trial for about twelve bucks a day. Or, we could just allow HAL to decide what they think is fair. The people or the company.

I wonder if it's the negativity. It's been better lately, but for a few months, this board seemed to be haunted by trolls who just loved to jump into threads and stir up trouble. Some people seemed to be spoiling for a fight. A few fairly new posters said they weren't going to post again. Sad, when there's so much knowledge and kindness here and a few trolls detract from that.

Or maybe Cruise Critic needs to change the name to Cruise Cheerleader. Criticism is not tolerated. And it shows. A slight deviation from praise is automatically seen as a troll and is treated as such.

The same "everything is wonderful" by the same few 10,000 post personalities is quickly seen through.

The news media is full of stories about false reviews. People are not taking reviews at face value anymore and the treatment here by those who disagree send people elsewhere.

Change the name to Cruise Lovers and people will come here to find out what's to love about cruising. Call it Cruise CRITIC and marginalize real critics makes it less relevant.

Are the cigarettes the same? I remember buying Marlboros in Mexico one time. They were a fraction of the price of American Marlboros, so I bought a carton. I soon noticed these were not the same as I was used to. Sure, both are made by Phillip Morris, but the tobacco just wasn't the same. I wound up just giving them away.

Of course this was all before I gave up smoking, which as luck would have it, was years before I developed cancer. Cigarettes, cheap or otherwise, are never worth the price.

Uber is wonderful! Until something happens, then see who has the insurance.

Another nice thing about Uber is they charge less. Too many cab drivers are getting rich driving a taxi. I believe it is 10 of the top 20 gazzillionaires are cab drivers- that's why it is nearly all immigrants.

And the technology!!! A smart phone app? Who'd of thought of that?

No matter Uber cars are not inspected like taxi cabs are. No matter we have to take Uber's word they background check. No matter cabbies are limited in the hours they work a day. No matter cab drivers are drug tested. It's new!!! And we 'save' a couple of bucks; ain't that what it's all about?

That's the answer! Go to Dive-in, order something, get it on a tray, then dump it and take the tray to the Lido.

Thought about it, but the trays from the hamburger stand are really small, not room for a dinner plate, at least with a salad or beverage.

One more thing I wanted to say, if taking away the option of using a tray saves on food costs, it would have been nice if they took that savings and hired additional workers. Alas.

I have taken my last cruise. I am not going to step foot on a cruise ship just to find I am captive to the newest penny-pinching scheme thought of by some MBA. Better they think of a luxury that costs less than the value added.

Life is an adventure.

Google "sneaker wave", ain't no crew member gonna help predict one of those.

One reason modern cruising is popular is because the ships are so big. Tenders are a step back.

Trays belong to school and prison cafetarias, not onboard cruise ships.

 

I spend around 250 days a year in Hotels, I have never, ever, seen any landside buffet that had trays. If you need assistance, ask a friendly crewmember to help out, or go to a sit-down venue.

Definitive ruling, huh?

Some people don't like to make one trip for a salad, another for bread, another for the main course and another for a beverage. Trays there doesn't mean one has to use the trays, it just means it is there as a consideration. I've already stated I would be willing to chip in for the increased price of wasted food and the labor needed to replenish them.

McDonalds and Burger King offer trays. Sizzler Steakhouse uses trays. Buster BBQ, a Portland landmark uses trays. Sweet Tomato uses trays. Plenty of Chinese and India buffets use trays. HAL used to offer trays until they went on a penny-pinching cost cutting model. By the way, the hamburger stand on HAL uses trays and they only serve like four menu items.

On one of the CD's Guest Shows a food manager stated there had been a 30% drop in food waste after trays were removed.

 

That's a lot of savings when you think of ship, fleet, corporation.

Make clear, that is not 30% of food wasted. It is 30% reduction in food waste.

You know how they could also lessen food waste? Serve decent food. I have a real problem with wasted food. I had periods of time when I had real hunger issues, it pains me to throw out food.

Every time I threw out food it was on HAL because the food was not edible (in my opinion). I complained there were bugs in the lunch meat. I complained the 'sushi' was not kept cold. I bit in to the halibut to see it was actually tilapia. Cold food that was warm and hot food that was cool. Desserts that were eye appealing but the gelatin had not gelled and fruit that was way passed prime. And what is with the drive in hamburger stand? Grilled onions and mushrooms that turned out to be reconstituted freeze dried things (heated in a microwave?). And the nearby taco station, I'm sure the waste there came from food that never touched a customers plate, tray or doggie bag.

Too much blaming the customer and darn little looking inward for the problems. I am less likely to throw out a bread roll if, A. it has not become soggy sitting next to the watery broccoli, B. the bread is not stale.

Again these steps will cost money. Maybe more than one dollar, but certainly less than five. Put it on my bill, it makes me angry to have to throw away food. Then I'm forced to call room service and order the steak sandwich for the third time on a week long cruise.

I was told by one HAL official that removing the trays from the Lido has led to a lot of savings for the cruise line, over one million dollar a year for the fleet.

 

Interesting. CCL has revenue of about $14B a year. Saving $1 million is a increase of 0.01% or so. Figure the average cruise costs about $1,000, a tray added to the cost of a cruise would work out to about $0.10 per person. Some MBA has just earned his salary by shaving a dime of profit. But, what is that tray worth to me?

 

I want a tray. I want to put a salad, some bread, a main plate, a drink and maybe a desert on my tray. I don't want to have to get up for each little thing and I don't want to pile everything on one plate where the peas have run into my bread and my salad is covered in mash potatoes. Charge me an extra dime. Heck, charge me an extra buck and you'll have made a customer happy and made a profit of $0.90 more.

Reward-based training! Ever train a puppy? You say "sit" and push his backside down, and when he sits, he gets a treat. This motivates him to sit when you say "sit." By making payouts more frequent, it motivates people to stay at the machines. :D

It works the same way with humans. A payoff releases hormones and the player feels all warm and good inside. The player tries to recreate the experience by winning again. No matter how much the player loses, the warm, good feeling will return with a win. If a player walks away after a win (no matter how much they've lost), they will walk away feeling good. That is the science that keeps people in front of slot machines for hours upon hours.

Though I never "gamble", I encourage everyone to gamble. It makes the Vegas buffets cheaper, it makes cruises cheaper, it keeps local taxes lower, and if a friend or relative wins big, there are always some crumbs that fall to the floor.

Would you elaborate on that, please? Was this on a cruise, in a restaurant?? What was the misinformation? How did you discover that?

 

Inquiring minds want to know! ;)

Recent cruise on Statendam.

Asked what type of salmon, told by server it was Coho. Really it is Atlantic salmon, big diff. You'd think an Alaskan cruise might have some local cuisine.

Speaking of local cuisine, dress up night advertised halibut. I like halibut, but not fashion shows so I saw the Lido was also serving halibut according to the posted menu. Turns out it was tilapia. I pointed out the discrepancy to a suit in the Lido area and he said it didn't matter because it was all good. So, I went to the MDR in my country club who cares look and ordered the halibut. Dry and tasteless, must be Holland halibut or something.

At the local Burgerville, one can get halibut fish and chips, for two bucks more than the cod fish and chips.

Strip steak can be a good steak. Depends on the animal.

Then too, we have to trust the word of the server that this indeed is a strip steak from a properly graded animal, butchered in a sanitary manner.

The last trip I caught misinformation of what I was being served on my plate. Fool me once...

Which is fine if you are targeting a very limited clientele, but very few cruise lines or other competitive businesses can afford to. There is always room at the top for luxury, but the remaining 95% of cruise passengers expect to receive reasonable quality at a reasonable price. If you take a look at the growth of the cruise industry over the past decade and at the new ships coming on line in the foreseeable future, it's primarily in the mainstream lines, not the luxury line.

Chipotle is not luxury. Whole Foods is not luxury. Hilton Hotels is not The Four Seasons. Not everything has to be WalMart or dollar menu.

I agree with you as far as paying for quality but unfortunately most businesses are headed down the same path.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. True, most businesses are racing to the bottom, but the ones who'll be successful in the future are offering quality at a value.

Many people think dining out means choosing from the dollar menu. And the bean counters are busy squeezing the last bit of profit from a dollar burger- a tiny bit less ketchup, limit the time the onions are fried, redefine what "meat" is. Over the years the steady customer hardly catches on, but it doesn't bring in new customers.

The new model is offering quality at a higher price. Chipotle advertises "food with integrity", using organic ingredients and eschewing GMO produce. Even though a meal at Chipotle costs much more than eating at Taco Bell, investing in one would have made you rich while the other is just treading water.

Surely with all the brands at Carnival Cruise Lines, there could be room for one brand that offers quality over discount.

I agree that the itinerary was not at all a waste of money. My DH and I spent a lot of time recognizing how fortunate we were to be able to do it. I feel badly for the OP (flyguy) that he was so incredibly disappointed. I suspect (but can't prove) that this may have been his/their first cruise in a number of years, so all the cutbacks to the onboard experience may have been a terrible shock.

Cut a dime and charge a penny less here and cut a dime there. At first it isn't noticeable, but after awhile the whole product becomes cheap. And cheap is what a lot of people want- but not everyone.

Tiffany still does a brisk business. People will pay extra for LuluLemon quality. And every woman "needs" a Coach bag. I have never seen the local Whole Foods empty.

All the cruise lines are headed to the cheap experience. No one is offering quality value. For instance, one could offer organic locally grown food. The cost might be $100 more per guest, and the ship would have to substitute more vegetables instead of meat; but they could easily advertise the healthy part and charge $200 or more extra. I know I would pay.

Instead of finding ways to chisel a penny here and there, why not look for quality values. Perhaps people would pay $5 more if there were better toiletries, but the cost is only $4. Five bucks to feel pampered? A no brainer.

Hire extra help so people feel that there are crew members chomping at the bit to make my experience special. There is value in that and I'm willing to pay. If it costs each passenger a buck so that there are extra people going around filling glasses and getting utensils, do it! I will think the extra cost is worth it and I will tell all my friends how wonderful the service is.

But I'm never going to cruise again as long as the mind set is one of cost cutting. I didn't like being a captive audience to a cheap product where the company thinks of me as a cheap person. ("What do you expect for X amount a day?")

Perhaps they're all using GPS in some magical otherworld, but not in Fort Lauderdale and quite a few other places we've taken cabs. As for the price shopping / asking how much the ride will cost - that ain't happening in the taxi dispatch line at the airport. I realize that traffic, and in our area, drawbridges can impact the cost of a cab, but the customer shouldn't have to pay while the driver sort of learns the way around the city. One of the big competitive advantages that the ride sharing services have is that they can quote you a price before you book.

 

In the previous post to the one I'm quoting, you also made the claim that the technology that Uber uses was around 20 years ago. I'm relatively up on tech, but I can't recall Internet enabled, touch screen smartphones with GPS. (The Motorola StarTAC came out in 1996 and was a big deal at the time. Reasonably sure that the Uber experience on the analog, GPS less, what the heck is a data plan, phone would have been less than stellar.)

 

 

 

 

I would take the time to find out the price, even at the airport. Just because it seems hectic, you have to take the time to agree on a contract. Unless driving around with some dinkus who doesn't know where he's going is OK with you.. All you have to say is, "How much to XYZ?" If he doesn't know, he doesn't know how to get there- better to find out now rather than find it out on the freeway.

I'm telling you as a veteran cab driver, always get an estimate.

As far as cabs being computer dispatched 20 years ago, no problem. All the cabs had GPS and a computer would assign the nearest taxi. I was a cab driver not a computer person.

Here is a picture of a similar "mobile data terminal" or as the cab drivers call it, the computer, that I was using twenty years ago.

http://www.taxi-library.org/mccurdy.htm#mdt

Once again, I don't care. Use Uber, go ahead. But I think a business that only succeeds because it flaunts the law, is not good for people.

Uber has yet to make a profit. It owns nearly nothing. It "employs" nearly no one. All it does is raise money to tie up the courts and the lawmakers and operate below the radar. If you ever had a lawsuit against them, they'd bury you in proceedings until your grandchildren were old.

I have had friends who started a cab company. I had fellow drivers who bought an existing cab company. And I applied for a job because the owner (an Ethiopian dude) was on the news complaining he couldn't get drivers for his cab company because people were prejudiced. (I worked for him for three years, and he was kind of right).

The point is, there are tens of thousands of cab drivers sitting at the airport or a hotel, thinking, there has to be a better way. And this is the best all those minds could come up with? Skirt the law?

Puhleese! Some of the drivers I've known were something else back home. I had a Russian general, several doctors and lawyers, teachers galore, plenty of people smarter than me. Even burnt out Silicone Valley types. They attend taxiboard meetings, if they had a better idea it wouldn't be so hard to get the funding.