AL ZYMER

Good post. Pretty much along the lines of my earlier remarks. Thanks for the extra info.

My post was to air what is a popular view on the tipping culture Jean. Stand by it. Not aimed at individual choices. You sound like a kind caring person too. Your life experiences have followed a different path. Lets hope the first class passenger who tipped you didnt think he was better than you!

For me tipping is an outdated practice and we should make a stand to support the human rights of those made to be dependant on it. It wont happen overnight, though Australia,UK,Germany and much of EU are now happy to round off a bill. I lived and worked in the USA for 15 years so was thrown into it big time.

Although I believe tipping started in England a couple of hundred years ago it was taken to the States and used to exploit people of many of the basic rights we have today.They then took it with them on their travels around the globe (military and travel) and influenced others.

Tipping is usually handed out to those you feel are less than you,.....to buy friendship,favouritism,display wealth etc.

Who tips nurses. for long hours or extra care? Who tipped me when I went over and above in my work with the general public. I didnt expect it and a big thank you made me feel proud. I was getting a fair wage for what I did and we should do what we can to give others their dignity and self respect.

A Google search will tell you what the fat cats in cruising make on the backs of others.

I have been following this thread from the start and would like to chip in if I may with a few points.

Third world countries have exported their labour for more than a hundred years. Its what they do. No need for feeling guilt about it on the ship. When you go ashore for coffee,Mcdonalds. hotel,etc etc its all there, out front or in the back. It is done across the board from skilled to unskilled workers. I have worked abroad and alongside these mostly hard working people from time to time and picked up a few things. They do it of course for the money.

Example Cabin steward pay on a leading cruise line is approx.(dollar conversion) £857.00 a month.

Avr earnings per month for the Philippines is around £200.00 a month. The India sub continent is even less. These are National averages so it may be that our ship stewards and waiters may be getting even less at home,if they have a job.

If we assume that 10 cabins are serviced a day and out of the potential £14.00 he/she gets a fiver, thats £50 a day,or £300.00 for a 6 day week on top of their base earnings. ....throw in food and board also.

Do I think our waiters and cabin stewards get this . No I do not. That is why I go along with the posts that support withholding the tipping charge and dealing with the matter in your own way.

PS Just so you know . The internet will tell you the wages of all crew from captain down to kitchen assistant!

Did you all pay your service charge up front?

Just back from 12 nights on the Ventura. As active people and healthy eaters we found that fine dining every day is plain not good for you and we found going to the buffet a good place to get that essential extra veg/fibre etc that is often missing in the so called fine dining.We normally prefer bistro type eating anyway. So we split it up about fifty fifty. We were able to build ourselves some fine fresh salads with plenty of good options to go with it. That said the Buffet is a competitive place.! From claiming your table to filling your plate. Entry is at both ends and it a bottle jam in the middle. There were others like us looking for a change,but I have to say there is a mighty high number of very over weight people who use the buffet for all meals as they are in a "all you can eat " place. Many of these folk never ventured ashore and remained on deck 15 (Lido) to lounge or sunbathe.They were close to the burger/pizza, grab a bag,buffet and starboard side smoking area. They never interfered with other passengers and seemed to be having a great time. Future burdens to the NHS. A cruise is the last thing they should be doing. Palma .Ship docks about three miles from start of main town area.Interesting visits to Central and Olivier markets plus back street of old quarter. We walked 12/14 miles that day .Had a cracking buffet pizza when we got back! La Spezia Walked 20 mins to rail station,boarded train to the Cinque Terre (five villages) 13 euros PP World Heritage area had a great day; coffee and ice cream along the way. Marseille Off ship walked 250 m to free port shuttle. Boarded Petite train for 7 euros pp. A 40 minute tour of town and maritime area and up to Notre Dame Note... Ship tour price for this little outing £88.00 for the two of us. Lots of armed guards around the city. Ajaccio We strolled around .Napoleans birthplace was rather ordinary.We did not go in. Found some interesting back streets.Back to the Ship early. Gibraltar A Pando fuel stop. Was asked by a deck 15 person to bring back some fags. Waved him off! Cabin good. Service good. Entertainment (for us) not good. Headliners screaming out the same routines as they did on our last P&O cruise three years ago. Boarding and leaving ship, very slick. Small niggles ........The Buffet arrangements .......Maybe a lift exclusively for our disabled friends ...to help them and us. Constant approaches from the photographic squad.........Same for the pay extra dining. .....and Spa Will we cruise again? Not for a while.We have done four now and will be doing other adventures for a bit.

Eight layer Molten cake. Around 400 cals. 50% rec. fat allowance per day. 50% rec. cholesterol allowance per day. Could be more depending on serving portion. Following maybe four other courses too. Wow. Dodged a landmine there!......Although I suspect the two layers served were just thicker. Some observations here deserve an airing... others are in my opinion petty.

Maybe 3000 souls on board, each with a valid opinion on food drink life style and other things!. Plenty like me and my wife who are long time exercise/ healthy option eaters and happily do not carry the burden of foodies wine snobs and the like. Added salt,sugar,thickeners,fat etc. are things we would avoid. Fresh ingredients,clean kitchens,and the kind of things on offer that we do not get around to trying at home are important to us. If these standards have indeed fallen then it will be of great concern . ....and YES my wife loves not having to cook,wash up ,make beds, and tidying up after me and grandchildren for a couple of weeks!..busy lives!...For me the Fred Olsen buffet was much better than P&O. We found wonderful fresh fish,sea food,salad and veg. Perhaps due to its North sea connections. The table beverage and clearing service a plus too. We leave on the Ventura for 12 nights soon and in the spirit of fairness to all will make further comments on food standards......but bear in mind any observations will be from my particular view and preferred menu choices. Many more valued opinions out there.

Tipping started many years ago in this country by a group of privileged people eager to display their elevated education and status,and to ensure a servile class was dependant on a higher class. Maybe that is why today we all at times feel uneasy with it. I see no reason in this day and age why it still exists. Hats off to Australia New Zealand Singapore ,Japan,Denmark and many others that have made a stand on this outdated practice.......I have seen myself what has begun to happen in Kenya where the American tourists have arrived in their "Out of Africa" costumes and throw money around to the despair of the local community of all tribes and races. Same in India too......It seems some people cant help themselves. Why tip taxi drivers,hairdressers,but not nurses,ambulance drivers,and so on. At restaurants (and cruise ships)I have seen people tipping even when a service charge was clearly included.This practice used to prop up those paying minimum wage or less to staff needs to end. Everyone should have their dignity and not be judged every thirty minutes of their work day by other people of mixed opinions. Well done Thomson and P&O Australia.......To end I must say that in spite of my utter dislike of this system, for now, I do pay the ship auto gratuity No wish to hurt the small person stuck in this mess. Its a corporate matter and more of us should comment on it in our cruise follow up paper.

Lots of suggestions from many kind people who may have a different view on port stops to you. Here is another from someone that likes to do things themselves,does not like being herded around like cattle, and tries hard not to conform to the cruising image when ashore. FLAM Exit ship early......walk approx 200m to train station.Purchase ticket for your return trip .....return 200m to ship for breakfast....and in my case hurry my wife along! We boarded the train in good time and watched the ships tour passengers being led across by the tour guide....saved 75%pp. Plus travelled with non ship people. Olden Exit ship......See TAXI sign. "See Cheaper than ship tours" notice next to it. They run mini bus and taxi to the glacier and other tours..We had a great day on our own ....saved 50%pp on ship tour. Stavanger .....Burgen....No trips for us here . We passed on visiting the homes of old composers and writers.For others that may be their cup of tea.We are active so had a great experience visiting the fish and general markets around the port area Also visiting the old wooden shiplap buildings near by.We exited the ship early ,went back to the ship for lunch and a nice sit down, and went out again for another stroll afterwards. We like to do things our way...So I would say go with what ever way you choose based on your own lifestyle and preferences. Above all have a great cruise and holiday!

Flam The station is about 250m from the ship. Stroll across early get your tickets return to ship for breakfast/coffee.This pleasant train journey stops at the troll place for photos. There is a small show put on. 75% saving pp on ship tour. I remember being on the train and seeing the ship tour group being led across by some from the ship holding up an umbrella. Olden From the ship walk 200/250m. See large Taxi sign.They advertise "cheaper than ship tours" .We saved 50% on ships prices and could have saved more if we had been able to get another couple in the cab. Went to the glacier too !. Also have mini bus(s) Bergen and Stavenger In full agreement with other comments. Loved the fish and general markets in both ports.The old wooden buildings both sides of the dock area in Bergen.On our October cruise we had no problems walking up and getting on the funicular.

Good work Clodia, I do a high intensity weights session in the gym every three days.This keeps the metabalism ticking over to burn the empty calories, and along with the daily activity aboard and ashore works well....means you build a good appetite and eat very well........Its all about food awareness though. One foolish pastry can cancel out those 10 laps !!! I will get off quick. Gotta be some eye rolling going on somewhere!!

Can be......You seem to be aware of health/activity/ eating/ issues so should enjoy the cruise experience and easily shed a pound or two when you get home. We always do. Good that you are aiming to step aboard at a weight you are happy with,and not starting out where you dont care much any more. My wife and I were staggered to see the amounts of food and drink put away,(and left on the plate),on our first cruise. Other holiday/hotel options do not cater to this gluttony......(that I know of). Many seasoned cruisers are in total denial of their health and well being,no need to be joining them. As long as you dont have health or mobility problems take the stairs (its quicker -avoiding the one floor hop on hop off crowd)) and walk when you can.Days ashore we choose to skip lunch as a catch up and get in some pleasant walks sightseeing. Also meet some like minded people. Example: On our last cruise the ship docked in Gibralta. Hard to say for sure but it appeared that the majority caught a bus,taxi,or ships tour into town.About a mile and a half I think. As we, and another couple we met along the way arrived in the main street we were amused to see the cafes and in particular the fish and chip shops and pubs heaving with people from our cruise.(we were the only cruise ship in that day).Its how this 78 year young couple (and others) do our travels......Have a wonderful cruise and enjoy it fully in whatever way you choose!

I travel a lot ,Fly drive,Backpack....Cruise once a year. Never ever paid for internet anywhere. Free at Nairobi Backpackers and other remote places in Kenya . All South African backpackers. All hotels cheap and not so cheap through out Europe USA,Canada.Singapore etc etc. Cruising folk are a different type and seem to except these and other charges.I am off next month and choose not to use the internet at sea....Nor will I be taking the ships tours either.....but thats another story for another day.

Before this series there was one on the Balmoral (Fred Olsen).Same formula,to show to the general public the excesses of many cruise passengers.The special meals, drinking,late night buffet,Spa treatments, pampering, Black tie nights. and so on. Its for the eyes and entertainment of those outside the cruise community.Those within that bubble do not see themselves as such.There are plenty among the 3,000 odd passengers aboard that do it differently and do recognise much of the content and behaviour shown. A lot of these "shows"I agree are not researched at all well. The suggestion that a 25 year blond junior officer would navigate a huge cruise ship to dock at a major port was a good example.Even the captain and senior staff are happy to use the port pilot!......My next cruise in about 6 weeks. Will be navigating my way around carefully.

Oh dear, We had non cruising friends and family round and someone said "theres a cruise programme on,turn on the tv.! The sheer gluttony,self importance of spending four or five cruises a year self indulging (and it showed)being cosseted by third world staff..This showed people living in a bubble and in many ways apart from reality as most of us know.....A discussion followed and my wife and I who have only done three cruises,(No4 next month) found ourselves defending ourselves! After a lifetime of world travel..... backpacking (the pleasures of( Nairobi backpackers at aged 72!) ,fly drive,rail,we chose a cruise after I had an op on a detached retina. We enjoyed that cruise with Fred Olsen, choosing Norway a place where being on a ship may be the best way to see things.....We had to agree however that by and large cruising is dumbed down tourism and we have now joined that particular group.....In our own defence we pointed out that we do it our way.... use the gym,seldom take the lift,walk when we can and skip lunch on shore days. Whats more we have found many like us. We do the formal nights, comfortable in a dark suit, my wife likes to dress up a bit though. As for cruising more often? We like to try other travel adventures too so one a year is good for us. Also have to take into account Grandchildren getting on and in to University,Babysitting,Bank of Mum and Dad and spending a little of our time on charity work. We hope its a decent balance.

No complaints from us with the Cruise director and her team. Only for a few of the shows. .Plenty of energy and spirit from the resident song/dance performers but to be fair each performance was identical,just a different theme and costume change.

Personally we do not need any contact with the cruise director as most things are published daily with full details of where to go and when to be there.If you then choose to attend for example ....deck quoits,hula hoops,line dancing quiz,and so on the cruise director or one of her team will be there.....We stumbled across the line dancing lessons one day and can confirm she was taking the class herself.Looked like she made it enjoyable for all.....including the onlookers! Sorry to hear you had a different experience on your August trip.

The following comments are from my wifes and I point of view and any critical or positive remarks should be weighed against your own likes and dislikes.

It started with a long queue to register,all advised boarding schedules seemed to have been abandoned.We and those around us didnt mind,though the odd grumble was heard here and there.I remember looking around at all the people waiting(with different needs,standards, etc)and thinking thank god I was never in the hospitality business.Standing in line turned out to be a regular thing aboard ship An audience with the captain,show time,meals and such.A British thing I guess.Our inside cabin was fine and we soon settled in for the cruise.

Food was very good ,we heard only positive remarks on this.Big eaters in heaven....and there were plenty on this ship.

Unlike the great report above we did not rate the entertainment that highly.We think but do not know that there may have been problems behind the scenes. First show was cancelled and it seems like it was a mixture of all entertainers to fill in.Dancing folk get a lot of time and room.We sat and watched and got up for the odd turn around the floor.Very popular when they crank it up a bit for some jive.Never more crowded when they did a rock and roll set one night in the Neptune.

As a non card player I was astonished to see the number of bridge players playing all day and night in the bridge room!Crammed every time I passed.

On the other hand I had the gym pretty much to myself.

My St Petersburg tour choice of going independant with TJ Travel was a great

decision.One of the first off the boat,most others still gathering in the Neptune for their tours.Got through ,and back both days quickly....but unable to raise a smile from the immigration officers!

Eight on our mini bus,two others from Balmoral and five Americans from the Regal.We were gone and on our way before the ships tour s left the lounge.

It was crowded in the palaces etc.but our guide managed to get us in without any waiting around.We chose not to sit down with the others to lunch on both days and used the hour to walk around give our tummies a rest(we did buy ice creams at a supermarket) and take in the local life a bit.Sunday in a small park in St P.was a highlight for us seeing local life.Wonderful photographs.

Enjoyed Tallin in the rain.My off the ship early tactic backfired this time as the weather improved as the day went on.

Warnemunde(spelling?)was a delight.Also took the train into Rostock to enjoy that old town.On the way back we were delayed for 20 mins as they were overun by migrants getting off a train.They were not expected as police cars and sirens were all around us.

This was our third cruise and the second with Fred.We will cruise again and it will be with Fred for sure.To us who love to travel and explore places and have done so all our lives the travel part of cruising is so dumbed down and pre packaged it makes no sence to us.So next year its on to something new and different........as Arnie said We will be back.

Lovely photos - thank you for posting!!

Great pictures. Time stamp around lunch time for most of us. The canal is around 60 miles long. I expect most passengers went on deck to see the transit at some point.....Looking forward to seeing it early September.

Well said London Towner.

I also agree with researching the private tour operators.Its good fun and gets you away from the ship routine,meet the locals....and saves you money:)