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Britannia lifts - tips welcome

Are the bell boys asking for tips as well!:cool:

Does no one play travel agents off against each other and book the lowest possible fare. I don't care which travel agent books the cruise as I do everything myself once the cruise is booked. 12.5% off the P&O website price with the biggest TA on the high street for our next cruise on Ventura.

I got the cheapest quote I could then went to one of the dearer TAs who promised to always beat any quote and with a bit of arm twisting got another £50 off the lowest.

Anyone sufficiently into wanting to book PO that they would care to nurse a log of cabins, good, bad and ugly?

The Celebrity forum on here has quite a good spreadsheet for the Solstice class ships, which has been put together by a dedicated forumeer from cabin reviews sent in by other members.

Maybe one of you interested members could set up something similar for P&O?

One for M class too. Someone draws together in a spreadsheet the reviews which individuals make upon return. It is very helpful and highlights noise and things like near areas that staff use at night.

I always book directly with P&O and have found them to be very good. If you always book with an agent, how do you know P&O direct booking is useless? Maybe you had a problem with one booking in the past but don’t judge the service in light of one possible bad experience. Clearly they are not useless because I and many others find them to be extremely useful. If they are to be discontinued, I will not be happy.

they would certainly have been more expensive than a TA for my booking.

daiB and pete14. Did you not bother to read my earlier post?

 

Here's a bit of it.

'If these crew members were to take up a UK land based contract, of course they would be paid more. They would have to pay UK prices to feed themselves, UK rent to house themselves, utilities, transport etc.'

 

So,yes, they should be paid the same as anyone else doing the same job with the same overheads when living and working in the UK.

 

But it's patently obvious that crew members do not live and work in the UK, they live on a ship travelling the globe, and as I stated, they are not subject to the same costs involved with a land based job.

 

If P&O or any other UK multinational company opened a call centre in the Philippines would you expect the staff there to be paid the same as an equivalent employee in Southampton, I certainly hope not.

One would expect the companies to pay what would be considered a decent wage in that particular country.

But the employee would be domiciled in that country and not domiciled on a rich cruise ship and being part of the rich living standards enjoyed by the cruise ship customers.

But back to that letter, no one seems to be able to tell us why PO are sending it, do you really believe that they are concerned that staff will get short wages or that PO will get shorter profits?

The impression I get is that it is the other cruise lines that are ripping their passengers off not P&O. It's about choice not necessarily trying to bring P&O into line with the way other cruise lines operate. You pay your money and take your choice on the cruise line that you prefer.

Not sure why you think that about other cruise lines. For everyone I know the AG's are incorporated into the basic cruise fare, so you know what you are paying from the start and evry other cruise line sold in the UK will have to allow AG's to be removed. Cannot sell if there are extras that have to be paid not included in price.

It hasn't changed to another lines thread. But as I stated earlier, I will continue to provide a comparison of the charges other lines make regarding to gratuities/service to broaden the horizons of P&O cruisers who think they are being 'ripped off' by the line.

 

There are several people like me who sail on other lines as well as P&O so they may be interested. If you sail exclusively on P&O then my information lets you know that you are not that hard done to with regard the £7 pppd which most are complaining about.

I am sure that many on here have a good knowledge of other lines and I certainly have sailed them. But you were quoting them to try and say that PO were the same and that this was in UK parlance a "service charge". That may be a local cultural use of the word, who knows, but their threads are the place to debate it.

I have never suggested that one should not give gratuities nor that PO's AG's are greater than any other line. The debate is why one gives and how, so the staff receive the gratuity. On these threads there has been considerable doubt cast on who gets the money from AG's and the fact that customers generosity can be used against the very staff the money was given for. So seems that to give staff a real extra bit of gratuity, one can remove AG's, which PO says will not affect staff's income, and give that in cash, which the member of staff can keep and does not have to share or pool.

I do not believe that out of the goodness of their heart PO are concerned for staff when AG's are removed, which would seem to be the thrust that some are putting on that letter. If staff are not affected by removal then PO must be. Hence the letter.

Well with RCI and Celebrity and can say that when pre paying, it shows on your invoice as On Board Service Charge, and has for years, so it is a payment for service.

I must get some new glasses, the last time I looked at this thread it quite distinctly said P & O cruises. So why has it suddenly been changed to RCI and Celebrity thread?

Oh I see this post belongs in another section because it has nothing to do with P & O cruises.

If we are paying their wages through AG, PO tell us that removing it, as such, does not change what staff receive. So to give them a real tip on top of wages one has to remove AG and give them cash, which can be kept by the person it is given to.

Op earlier said that they were thinking of sending a letter before cruise to cancel AG. I guess that if one did that, if they were added one could just simply get home and tell CC company that this is a bad amount and ask for a refund.

Anyone tried cancelling before cruise on the grounds that if they inform you before you can cancel it before and not have to stand in a queue in valuable time of an expensive holiday.

But that’s a cabin with 4 persons, so that’s 4 lots of bedding, 4 lots of towels etc. Just because they are children does not reduce the amount of linens for a cabin of 4. People seem to think that you shouldn’t pay for children, but they still sleep in a bed using bedding, they still use a bathroom using towels and toiletries, they still discard rubbish. To me that’s why cruise lines consider a stateroom as having a number of berths, regardless of the ages of those inhabiting it.

Just a minute, are we paying all their wages in AG? Or is this a tip for good service? I got paid for doing my job, never saw a tip however well I did it. If we are paying their wages then it is not a gratuity and you make it sound as though we are paying their wages and not giving something for good service.

Just because you don’t see a link between autogratuities and service does not mean no link exists.

I agree that as the system is set up at the moment, it is reasonable for people to remove autogratuities if they so desire. In my view, it is also reasonable for P&O to offer them the opportunity to reconsider later in the cruise. A simple letter seems to be a reasonable way to do this. It is interesting that you seem to think a letter asking for autogratuities not to be added in the first place is acceptable but not a letter giving people the opportunity to reinstate them when they have had the chance to assess the work of those who receive them.

Presumably, as on this and other threads, you appear to be critical of much that P&O offer, in the future, you will find an alternative holiday or cruise company that come closer to offering you what you want.

But PO think it reasonable to ADD be fore one has had chance to experience the cruise. Or do we take AG off for the day we did have bad service.

But why ask people to re-consider if, as PO say, staff get the same amount and removing AG does not affect what they get? Unle ss ofcourse it means that PO have to stump up t o pay what is missing in AG pot or actually have to pay their wages not relying mostly on AG from guests.

Just to add I will gladly tip good service, I will not gladly increase PO profits, as the deleted email was intimating.

Cruise lines work out a marketing strategy which will achieve the optimum in cruise bookings and revenue. They will always have a target customer base and try to retain and expand them. In addition adding new target markets. They will have a good idea of who their competitors are and this is not all other cruise lines.

 

Prices will always fluctuate due to fluid pricing and deals will be offered to agents on specific cruises which may include all inclusive, free tips, etc. etc. This will all make it difficult to work out price comparisons which are not stable as next month the offer may be withdrawn or a better different deal appear. I suspect P&O have problems with potential problems with passengers in High Street agencies being switch sold onto a "cheaper line". Some travel agents offer special deals by block booking cabins and offering flights, hotels etc. to get your business and they might prefer you booking a specific line. It is all made a bit complicated specifically to try and influence you.

 

Gratuities are simply one expense to the cruise passenger which can come later as a financial blow particularly if you extensively research a cruise line and later find the new one you have switched to does not include them. Depends who you started with but this can happen.

 

The Service Reward Scheme is worth more money to staff than gratuities and in addition leads to promotion of higher rated staff. It costs the passengers nothing but is inconvenient to participate with form filling and posting in the box. In this respect some staff go over the top in their quest to achieve a full marks portfolio of their passengers reviews. Can you imagine what it would be like if people at work had to rate you and you lost money and status over their views?

 

Regards John

The present system is a pernicious, vicious system of threatening staff at the whim of passengers. It is easy to expect a CS to do something and them not do it, or not do it the nit picky way the passenger wanted it and a reward is blown when a low rating appears. Whilst customers should be kept happy I am sure there is a better way than using the AG system to do it. Infact in most jobs it is the managers task to keep workers up to scratch, but this goes back to the old piece work system with an added twist that someone who has never met the staff, probably, before that week gets to be judge and jury, whatever the passengers whims are.

So it is a good whipping system for PO and probably they get some money/save some money somewhere along the line. Not likely to change it sooner or later IMO.

Not that many, but some do offer a deal at times.

 

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I have to say that I don't know anyone who looks for an itinerary, then goes and finds as many similar itineraries as possible and then compares the prices and chooses the cheapest.

Many people try and get the best deal for the trip they want from the line they always chose. For me I look for the itinerary I want, going at the time I want to go and then see what cabin I am willing to pay for on that trip. Another £50 a week pp will not make that much difference, might push me down a cabin, but doubt it.

It is not the cost that counts for PO it is how it works in taxation, remuneration package for staff and in the end what profit system of tips works for them.

The letters are just trying to bolster the present system because it works for PO and I doubt they have any reason to change it and unless they need to find a more useful, to PO, one it will stay.

when one way or another PO don't get the money/profit they want from AG's they will change them. So let's keep the staff happy by giving them cash tips and they get the same share of AG's, whilst removing AG's to push PO into changing the system. Win win.

She sounded genuine when she said they were looking into gratuitys.

 

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The person on PO's Facebook page seemed pretty convinced and convincing with the reply I gave which is

at present, we do not have any plans to make gratuities part of the cruise fare. Thank you

when asked if they would incorporate AG's into basic cruise fare.

Still trying to work out what P-L-B meant with

Was it your spell checker that auto corrected that word to spitting

I and a few others e-mailed P&O to tell them to add gratuitys onto cruise price and a phone call back from P&O customer services acknowledged this.

Maybe more people need to email P&O regarding this.

 

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...and the standard response from PO is

at present, we do not have any plans to make gratuities part of the cruise fare. Thank you

It is spitting in the wind.

We reiterated our reasons and handed it in to reception. I expect it won't be passed on.

have you now contacted PO since your return?

Or tell them to include gratuitys in the cruise price and everyone pays something and if anyone wants to give extra the crew know it is a tip.

 

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Heard that from you sooooooooooooo many times.

I have come to the conclusion that PO will manipulate any system , because they will invent it and will invent what they want from it.

Secondly I am also sure that, whilst I want a good wage for the staff, it really is not for me to start questioning what other people do. If they want to leave AG's off and that means they go up for those who pay, then that is up to each individual, though the evidence is lacking that is the reason for increases. I cannot complain how others spend their money. I can say what I would do, try and raise arguments to change someone else's mind. But to have the gall as to complain about their freewill choice, because it affects my freewill choice and because I feel obliged to exercise my freewill to do something I can now say they are wrong and are costing me money is an insane argument.

Thanks. I guess I need to check the fine prints of my insurance if it is included.

 

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If that's Nationwide Travel Insurance, don't bother, the only mention of cruises is under Hazadous activities. They tell you nothing about if/what you are covered for on a cruise.

So if I’m understanding all this correctly. People don’t like the AG being add when on the ship. They definitely don’t a letter being left out their cabin. They don’t like the Highlighters shows or the sail aways My question is why do they cruise with P & O then. What do they like

I will only address the issue of not liking the letters, because the other matters are off topic.

But perhaps you have not caught up that the letters are new. Whilst, as I understand it, one could always remove AG's, and that is what I was informed by Customer Services. The notion of not just having to go to reception and remove them, but then you were asked by, what was, an open letter in ones pigeon hole to fill in again your reasons, was a step too far by PO. People had already booked and introducing what has been described as a letter of shaming is a legitimate reason for people to complain.

This is supposed to be a P&O cruises (UK) board and I find it slightly annoying to see that some are lobbying P@O into trying to change the way they operate (not just tipping) and bring them into line with "other lines"

Why, there are lots of passengers perfectly happy with the way P&O operates, warts & all and do not necessarily want to see them change to the way "other lines" operate.

We and our friends have been loyal P&O customers for many years and hope to continue to enjoy many more cruises with P&O.

If things are done differently on other lines that are perceived to be better than P&O then everyone has a choice to travel with said "cruise lines" and stop using P&O, it's their choice.

Unfortunately, as others have said, PO are changing things and sometimes not for the better. For example the change in sending letters to customers, cabins who removed AG.

So are you advocating that people simply accept all the changes, warts and all, even if they are seeking to prevent PO from making changes such as this letter to make passengers on holiday feel guilty and which annoy customers and may well. in the end, put people off PO. The so called letter of shame would have continued (though some say it does) without objections and these boards were part of that.

That they are allowed to keep cash tips and did not affect AG's paid to them was one of the things highlighted in the deleted thread. But if PO are adjusting how the AG's are distributed then that might also be taken into account ie biasing receipts of AG against CS where their passengers remove AG's.

I think more and more people will be doing the same until things change.

 

It’s funny that there is such an apparent level of distrust about where the money goes with P&O auto tips that is not refelected in other lines. We sail with several lines and some auto tip but there is not the same discussion and certainly no letters etc to customers who remove, if indeed many do.

 

The auto grats have been around for a while but the issues are much more recent. New demographic of cruisers who won’t be told what to do and if they don’t have to tip then they simply won’t?

Some of the mistrust is fuelled by information like ccc666 gave, who seemed either to be a member, ex-member of staff or close to someone who is and presented a picture of PO and its treatment of staff viz a viz AG's that was not very flattering to PO to say the least and did more than insinuate that PO did not pass all the money over and informed us how PO weaponised AG's tying them to CSQ's.

Maybe on US lines where they take tipping much more for granted they simply pay because they are used to it and PO being used by Brits who are not so used to tipping and ask a lot of questions.

Scriv wrote

I didn't know this... where did they say/write this please?

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=55926266&postcount=516

Which rather begs the question why are P&O getting so upset about people choosing to pay the tip in cash direct, unless of course they do not pay the staff anywhere near the same amount, which is leaving P&O out of pocket.

We have been told that PO 'guess' what the total AG's will be and then pay the crew a set amount of tips based on that assumption. They could be in some problems, like having to use all the pot and more if their estimate undershoots this.

Grappau27 you seem to want across many threads to post your view on AG, give it a rest.