OTRlady

Yes, HAL is a US corporation. Even if it weren't, the Supreme Court in "Spector vs Norwegian Cruise Lines" ruled that cruise ships using US ports are subject to the ADA. Unfortunately, the rules and regulations haven't been set forth yet.

 

A decent discussion is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spector_v._Norwegian_Cruise_Line_Ltd.

But they can only enforce the rules in the US port; once in international waters, they can't enforce it. The cruise lines argue that this is an unreasonable hardship, since they typically visit mostly foreign ports, and one can hardly change the rules from day to day on the ships. This is the roadblock that is holding up implementation. Hard to say which way it will ultimately go.

That's why I was so thrilled when you 1st mentioned the ADA package available on HAL. It had never occurred to me that cruiseships were subject to the ADA. Initially I was under the impression HAL was not a U.S. corporation & I thought the ADA only applied to U.S. companies.

 

You've heard the phantom knocks too, huh:) ?

Technically, HAL is not subject to the ADA, not because of the corporation, but because the ships are not registered in the US, so you are actually on foreign ground when on board, and not subject to US law. BUT, there are such a lot of US-based passengers who don't give a rat's a--- about the legal technicalities, it's to the advantage of all the cruise lines to provide the accommodations when they can--even if they don't have to. And to their credit, I think they genuinely want to do good, whether the law forces them to or not.

Has anyone had an interesting or embarrassing experience on a cruise due to a disability? On my recent cruise on Galaxy, I had finished a hot shower in my washroom, dried myself and put on a bathrobe when three security people burst into my stateroom. The steam from the shower had activated the smoke alarm in my cabin. They pointed to the alarm in the cabin ceiling which was flashing a very tiny red light, and then I understood. They apologized for the intrusion and then left. Good thing that I had the bathrobe on! :D

 

Donald.

Yes, though it was really more embarrassing for the other person. A couple years ago, DH was alone in our cabin and decided to go out on the balcony for a while. He didn't see the puddles on the floor or the wet chair. So he steps out the door, just as the cabin steward on the deck above dumped a second bucket of dirty cleaning water over the edge of the balcony above us--right onto DH! Our own cabin steward was so embarrassed when he found out. I think he thought we wouldn't tip him after that. Of course we did. It was simply an amusing accident that provides stories for boards like this.

I'm terrific at trivia (lots of useless info in my head), but have never played on a cruise. I stopped by the Crows Nest once to see how it worked, but couldn't make out what the CD was saying. Have any of you participated in Trivia onboard? I understand that it is verbal, not written, so how do you cope with that? Have someone in your group repeat the questions?

 

I've only been on one cruise with the Explorations Cafe, and didn't discover the written trivia game there until the end of the cruise.

Sundagger, DH and I play trivia all the time. The one cruise where we were with a large group of deaf and HOH, they had their ASL interpreter sign the trivia questions--and answers for them. For the basic trivia, if you talked to the social host ahead of time, I think you could get them to give you the questions in writing, or speak louder/slower, or do something for you.

On our most recent cruise, DH and I came upon a beanbag toss tournament, and we thought we could do it. After the first tournament, we learned there would be several more, so we arranged for a particular day, and joined the crowd. In our case, they allowed me to bang on the target board so DH could aim his throws. The host was keeping score anyway, and helped by handing DH the proper beanbags. We didn't win, but we weren't skunked either. I think our opponents were a little freaked by playing against a blind guy, but they got over it. We had fun.

Lately, I've noticed the addition of more multimedia trivia games, especially movie and sports trivia, where they show a scene from a movie or sports game and ask questions about it. DH gave up on those. I simply can't explain the scenes quick enough. But HOH could probably do them with a little help. The one I think you'd like was a history quiz on DVD, where they played background music (which didn't matter to the game) and showed a series of historic scenes with a year. It was your job to figure out what event was depicted in each scene. We actually won that one with a perfect score, though it was a challenge for me to describe the pix in less than 8 seconds. Lucky for us we're good at dates, LOL.

If you are good at trivia, I'd encourage you to check them out. Some games will be duds, but others may be workable for you--especially if you can team up with someone who writes fast and can write the questions for you. (For obvious reasons, you probably don't want to be talking too loudly with your partner--the other teams are listening to you!)

Good luck.

The national organizations are only able to nibble around the edges of discrimination. Their membership isn't large enough or affluent enough to have much impact in government....I've become conditioned to viewing accomodation as an imposition. I'm working on changing that, but it's difficult.

The blind and visually impaired have a couple or three large national organizations, one of which we like to joke "never met a lawsuit they didn't like".;) While we don't agree with a lot of their philosophies, they have had an impact. You could really use an HOH organization with their attitude.

For what it's worth, I have a couple observations. In my experience, there are a lot fewer deaf persons than there used to be (apparently medical technology is making some advances.) Since no one can tell that an HOH person is HOH, the hearing world just doesn't notice the assistive needs of the deaf and HOH. At many events, there will be accommodations for people in wheelchairs and the blind, but nothing for the deaf or HOH. You can only combat this by making more noise (no pun intended.)

Also, for whatever reason, people fear loss of vision more than loss of hearing. I think this attitude has the unwanted side effect that people also think deafness and hearing loss are less of a disability and therefore don't require any extra attention.

Strangely enough, most of the blind people I know say that they would much rather be blind than deaf--which leads to another observation. For many, hearing loss also affects your speech. Either you don't talk much because you can't keep up with the gabble of conversation, or because your hearing loss is long-term or profound, you may speak slowly or indistinctly. Aside from the fact that hearing people misinterpret this as a mental illness or cognitive disability, it makes it MUCH harder for you to advocate and communicate with the hearing community because you start from a much more isolated position. The blind are already a working group. The deaf/HOH are like a million groups of one each. Like it or not, the world is multimedia oriented. Sound and video (which includes sound) is how you get at the rest of us. If you can't talk to people or make your case in a radio or TV commercial, they aren't paying attention. They aren't reading the written material; that's for sure.

Last thing I have to say is that a lot of hearing people, if they notice your disability, are afraid of offending you by offering help you don't need. They seem to intuitively know some ways to help a visually impaired or blind person, but they really aren't sure what they can do for a deaf or HOH person. Not being you, I can't say how difficult this would be, but I'm a fan of the direct approach. Stand up and be proud of yourself, disability and all. Be direct and explicit. Take the initiative to introduce yourself as HOH and tell the hearing person what he/she must do to communicate well with you. Being HOH might be a stigma, but eventually, people will find out, and it seems better to me that you tell them what to think before they form the wrong opinions of what HOH means.

If someone offers you the wrong help, try to be gracious and either accept (whether you need it or not), or politely explain what you need instead. DH told me once that though he is an excellent traveler and does not need help crossing streets, many blind people never develop these skills and need the help. If he refuses, the prospective helper might attribute his attitude toward all blind people and never offer help to that future person who really needs it. (But I think he mostly accepts because he likes having a pretty girl/woman on his arm. :rolleyes: )

It's truly an uphill battle and not for the faint of heart, but don't give up. Small victories still mean something.

In the end, we are all people trying to make connections with other people. While we can't understand what it is to be HOH, we can still value you and support you. And to bring this back to the cruise theme, I think the crew on every ship are no different. They want to help, but they do not know how, and they are afraid--perhaps more so for the non-Americans--of offending you. Reach out. You'll be glad you did.

Because such a small percentage of people are hearing-impaired (apx. 10% of the population, with a small percentage of those being deaf), there is very little recognition by the hearing world of the problems of being hard of hearing. Deaf - they can understand. Hard of hearing, they don't have a clue.

 

Whenever I used to ask for ADA assistance, they would offer a sign language interpreter. I do not understand sign language. I am not deaf, I am severely hearing impaired, but I live in the hearing world. Even if I were to try to learn sign language (and it is not easy), no one in my world understands sign language.

 

It's a frustrating world to live in, but it helps knowing you are not alone.

It's not much comfort, I know, but I thought you would like to know that we see this in the visually impaired community as well. The vast majority of persons with vision problems are only partially blind. Many don't even look like they have a vision problem. As you said, the world doesn't have a clue.

Though DH is totally blind, other relatives (his issue is genetic) are not. When they ask for ADA assistance, the first thing that is offered is Braille copy. Today, even most totally blind people do not know Braille. As you said, the world we live in is hearing and sighted, and it can be frustrating.

I've been very interested to follow your discussion, as DH and I are actively involved in technology access in our state. While we find the ones who need the most help from technology are typically visually impaired, we have been frustrated ourselves at the lack of information and available technology for the HOH. Some of our major issues involve the use of voicemail and teleconferencing; would love to put together solutions that actually work!

My friend's husband is in a wheelchair and he has discussed this very issue with the hotel managers on several ships. They have assured him that the ships have passenger lists (and cabin numbers) of those with handicaps who would need assistance in an emergency. They have a team assigned to take care of these people. Now I don't know if it's just mobility-impaired people or if it includes other types of disabilities. But I think when you make arrangements on a cruise and you inform them of your special needs, your name must go on the list.

On our first cruise, I took DH, his mother, and her friend --all blind-- with me (I have poor vision, but so far it is mostly correctable.) Before our muster drill, someone came to our cabins to escort us to our muster stations, and back again. For a while after that, we didn't fill out the ADA forms, so no special attention. But for our last two Carnival cruises, we filled out the web site details including the fact that DH is totally blind, and were surprised when they told us there was a special muster area for the disabled. When we tried to muster with everyone else (after all, it's not like we can't walk), a crew member physically stopped us and made us go to the special muster area. We also got several letters about potential problems with our wheelchair. Maybe it's not perfect, but they do seem to have a list and to be taking it more seriously than in the past.

I see it from both sides, and I'm probably still as mad as Lisa is that HA's aren't covered like glasses are. :mad:

-Dave.

Bad news, Dave. I have worn expensive glasses (though nothing like HAs, I admit) since I was 7 years old. No insurance we ever had covered the cost of the glasses. They cover only one basic refractive eye exam per year until you are an adult. After that, nothing. IF you buy special "vision care" insurance, they will still pay for the one refractive eye exam per year, and pay $50 toward the cost of your glasses, but you can only visit their optometrists, not an opthalmalogist, and your choices of frames are limited to the cheapest available. I did the math, and it is cheaper for me to pay the eye doctor out of pocket each year and buy new lenses every couple years, than to buy the insurance and then still have to pay most of the expenses out of pocket. If you have any kind of irregular vision issue (i.e. not normal near-sightedness or far-sightedness), insurance will not help you at all. I assume the HOH have the same issues, but in much larger dollar amounts.

From an ASL interpreter and HOH person perspective, I have often wondered about hearing loss on cruises.

I can't speak for any other line, but several years ago, DH and I encountered a good sized group of HOH guests on a Carnival cruise to Alaska. They brought their own sign language interpreters with them, but Carnival set up a special desk and coordinated much of the entertainment and special shore excursions so they could use their interpreters. I think there were 50-60 HOH in the group, and they had three interpreters. If you do get together as a group on a cruise, it would probably be worth talking to the cruise line to see if they could make any special arrangements for you, such as reserved seating together in the dining rooms and lounges.

My sense is they want to do right by you, but they're not sure what "right" is. Most information about the ADA that they would have access to tends to focus on those who use wheelchairs, and as we all know, accommodations are not necessarily universal. Keep telling them what you need. I'm so glad to see you all connecting on this thread.

By the way, for those who are bothered by loud noise, do you have a squelch in your hearing aids that automatically damps loud noises? It sure helps with children's shrieks and loud horns. Unfortunately it also squelches some wonderful musical sounds sometimes but I can live with that.

This thread caught my eye because my DH is totally blind, and this is our first HAL cruise. TA told us that HAL had no way to request special accommodations, but now I am going to get the form.

Anyway, we totally agree with you about the damping. DH feels that ambient sounds everyone else considers to be normal, like children's shrieks, loud horns, and the sound systems in most of the entertainment venues are both distracting and dangerous to his hearing. He has taken to using a set of etymotic headphones in the show lounges so that he can damp the sound. We like to sit near the front, so we can hear the performers, not the people noises around us, but they often have the sound so loud that it actually distorts. When we have complained on past cruises, we have been told that they run it loud for two reasons:

1) they need to fill the farthest corners of the venue with sound at a certain decibel level

2) they need to make sure the hard-of-hearing can hear it

I've been very disappointed with the insensitivity of a remark like #2. Obviously, a number of hard-of-hearing persons find the loud sounds to be problematic as well, so it's not much of a solution. And, it makes it seem like they categorize one person's needs above another's. There have to be more universally acceptable approaches.

I'm probably late to the party, but thought I would add our experience to the pool. Just for the record, though, we did this excursion in 1997, and some things may have changed since then.

DH is totally blind, and we had his mother and one of her friends--both also blind--with us. DH's mother and her friend (age 69) only did the stairs. DH and I did the climb.

Someone posted earlier that the chain thing is not a good idea. It looks cute in the pictures they take to sell you later back on the ship (we did the tour as a shore excursion from Carnival Destiny), but has no purpose other than that. Most experienced climbers will tell you that a lot of climbing is in your hands. No one walks up the side of a mountain holding hands with other people, and it makes even less sense walking up a waterfall. We broke the chain almost immediately, because DH needs his hands to feel out where to put his feet. You can't just say "right there", you have to be more specific, and with the water rushing, it's often easier to just feel out your own spots than to try and take someone else's directions.

One thing about the water shoes. At the time, we rented shoes from the vendors at the parking lot, and mine felt like a proper fit going in. But the water is so cold that my feet shrunk up a bit, and the first time I put my foot in a hole, the shoe came right off! After that, it was somewhat of a struggle to keep them on. Make sure your water shoes or socks are a pretty tight fit to your feet.

As to the help you get, your other climbers are great--even if you're not holding hands. Most of the time, I didn't need too much assistance except time. I was 35 when I did the tour, and balance has never been a strong point of mine. Plus, I'm short and --shall we say, plump? At one point, I was having a little trouble climbing up a rather tall step for me. One of the guides who was monitoring from the side and had about 20 cameras around his neck (safekeeping for us climbers) grabbed me by the arm, literally lifted me up and over the step and set me back down again at the next flat spot. I was surprised because I didn't ask for help, and certainly that he was able to carry me that way. If you are within reach and they see you in trouble, the guides will help you.

DH had no problems at all, except needing a little extra time. I am the one who has no balance, can't swim, and is not athletic. Both of us made it, and are proud of it, though I don't think we will do it again. It was very hard. But don't let your doubts stop you from trying. If you want to do it, give it a shot. Our climb took about 90 minutes, mostly because the river was so crowded. We spent a lot of time waiting to move through certain bottlenecks.

Do not dismiss the warnings of others about injuries either. One lady from our ship put her foot in a hole, it got stuck, and she broke her leg trying to get unstuck. She spent the rest of the week in a hot pink cast and a wheelchair.

Re: the vendors. When we came out, I lost orientation in the parking lot, since it was not the same way we came in, and the lot was completely filled. I was surprised at how once the parking spaces are filled up, the vans and tour buses just park in the aisles or any other empty space, so it really is a sea of vehicles, surrounded by vendors. I went to the water shoe vendor to return my shoes and get my street shoes back--only he didn't have my shoes! That's when I realized there were several water shoe vendors around the perimeter of the lot and we didn't have the right one. Eventually, we found ourselves, but it was a little scary being lost in the parking lot.

Once we found our group again, we walked around the souvenir vendors' tents, but we didn't buy anything. They weren't overly aggressive. If we told them no thank you, they didn't bother us again. There was some nice artwork available, but we were poorer then, and didn't bring any money, as we planned to climb.

All things considered, we have loved the tours in Jamaica better than almost anyplace we've visited. Just remember, you are not in the US, and it's up to you to make sure you stay safe. Insurance is not like you're used to back home. I.e. the tour companies in Jamaica don't have any. Everything is at your own risk. So, if you don't feel comfortable doing something, don't do it.

Have a wonderful time at Dunn's River Falls. Even if you don't climb, you can walk in the water at the bottom end of the falls and get the views. It's awesome.

DH and I got sick toward the end of our first cruise. It was a flu-type virus. The next cruise I got my doctor to give me a just-in-case Rx for an anti-viral. We also bought a water purifier, and only drink water that's been through it.

But the best thing is washing hands frequently--with soap, about 30-60 seconds. We also carry small bottles of hand sanitizer and use them. Be aware that it isn't the touching of contaminated surfaces that makes you sick, it's touching your eyes or nose afterward that gives the virus entry to your system. Washing your hands frequently, especially after having touched a public surface, lessens the chance that the next time you rub your eyes you'll be giving yourself a nasty virus. Jury is out on whether putting something in your mouth after touching a contaminated surface is a problem. To be sure, we wash hands before eating anything.

Have been on 9 subsequent cruises, and never gotten sick like that again. I don't bring the anti-virals anymore; I feel confident that I can make it home.

Be prepared for many and varied reactions from passengers. We have had some very rude comments from some.

In our experience (DH is totally blind; we travel without a service animal) these comments are not necessarily limited to the dog.

There are also some countries where the presence of a blind person outside an institution, doing normal everyday things, is as frightening or more so to the natives than the concept of a service dog.

Luckily, these experiences have been the exception for us, not the rule.

Our advice is to be persistent in asking for what you need. You can't change everything that's wrong in the world all at once, so don't let the attitudes of a few ruin your vacation.

Sologrip:

My DH is totally blind, and while we don't have a service animal ourselves, some of our friends do. When planning a past group cruise, we were advised to remember that when on the cruise ships--unless registered in the USA--the ADA law does not apply. They only have to abide by whatever laws there are in the country of registry. This may explain the variation between different lines as to their specific policies.

However, it's also helpful to know that most cruise lines have such a large contingent of US passengers they are usually willing to go beyond the minimum--if you ask.