SwordBlazer Cruising

18 minutes ago, Upset Carnival Customer said:

A “bad cold” does not cause sudden onset of vomiting and fever and chills!  I was diagnosed at urgent care with a viral gastroenteritis that was most certainly contagious. 😂

As the consumer, what did YOU do to protect your investment in the event you could not sail. Forget about what you think the cruise line should do for a moment.  

6 minutes ago, vwrestler171 said:

 

Once a security flaw is identified, it is on them to fix it.

 

 

Booking number and last name, and the last name is easily found.  

Its not a flaw when the correct path was used to cancel a booking. If thats the case then hundreds of bookings would fave the same fate each and every week. This issue is on the consumer, full stop. 

19 minutes ago, vwrestler171 said:

The fact that all you need is a booking number and you cancel a booking is laughable.  Sadly, it wouldn't be that hard.  All I would need is an email and I could probably cancel it. Carnival and the entire travel industry are in danger of negligence since this came up if they do not make any changes in the future.  

Nah, whats laughable is that silly consumer who invited this issue by posting her booking information on social media. Don't confuse negligence with being culpable + stupidity .

13 hours ago, vwrestler171 said:

I think Carnival knows there is an issue or they would not have offered the cruise, plus $10k FCC(Her words).  Her refusing that offer shows that she wants a lot more which has skewed a lot of sympathy from her.  She wants Carnival to refund 100% PLUS the money she spent on a different vacation.  She also refuses to accept any responsibility for her error.  Yes there can be an error on Carnivals site, but she also committed a huge error.  Carnival attempted to make it right and she refused.

How can anyone blame the cruiseline and say it's a security issue? The consumer allowed her private information public and from her account, someone followed the normal path to cancel her booking. Sure, there could be another layer to authenticate if its the real person but a security "flaw" would be someone hacking into her crusieline loyalty account and taking her booking details that way. Its falls on her and her husband 1000%. The same can be done for a Southwest ticket, Delta, and the list goes on. The cruiseline offered her compensation and she was greedy and now gets nothing. 

7 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

"How do we know there was a security flaw on the side of the cruise line. "

We don't - that would be up to the courts to decide... but the mere fact that the customer screwed up does not in any way excuse potential negligence by the cruise line. Both can be at fault.

 

"If I give my 4 digit pin # to my debit card to someone and tell them the bank I do business with and they withdraw cash from the ATM, that's not a security flaw on the merchants behalf."

Correct - but if you give your checkbook to someone and tell them the bank you do business with, and they withdraw cash from the bank, and the bank does not adequately check and make sure it is you... that IS a security flaw on the banks behalf which they are responsible for.

 

If it turned out the bank had an ATM which didn't bother to ask for a PIN - that would be a security flaw that would make the bank liable.

 

If it turned out the person went inside and handed a teller the card to make a withdrawal, and the teller failed to verify the person making the withdrawals identity - that would be a security flaw that would make the bank liable.

 

For example, in the past (not true anymore) -

 

If someone stole your credit card and the vendor did adequate security, then the credit card company got hit with the fraudulent charge.

 

If someone stole your credit card and the vendor did not do adequate security, then the credit card company would not pay the fraudulent charge and the vendor would get hit with the fraudulent charge.

Your going so far off topic here pal. At the end of the day, that cruise guest is at fault, she did not protect her booking information and whoever took her booking information followed the correct path to alter the booking and cancel it. You're not going to win this argument nor will she. She is an irresponsible consumer, full stop. I am done going back and forth with your copy and paste wikipedia responses. 

1 minute ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

How do we know there was a security flaw on the side of the cruise line. If I give my 4 digit pin # to my debit card to someone and tell them the bank I do business with and they withdraw cash from the ATM, that's not a security flaw on the merchants behalf. Its

 a customer that was not responsible for his /her actions.  

7 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Again - even if the customer did everything wrong in securing their information, the retailer can also be at fault for failure to have adequate security. One parties failure does not excuse the other parties failure if it exists.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

That is largely irrelevant.

 

They are basically two separate things -  no matter how stupid the customer is, the company is still required to meet certain minimum requirements security wise.

 

Citibank is currently being sued by the State of New York for something very similar:

 

"Defendant has violated New York Executive Law § 63(12) by engaging in repeated and persistent illegal conduct by:

 

- failing to develop, implement, and maintain reasonable safeguards to protect the security, confidentiality, and integrity of consumers’ financial account information.

 

- failing to maintain a data security program that is appropriately designed to detect, prevent, and mitigate identify theft in response to red flags indicative of possible identity theft."

 

...but hey - Citi regularly claims they don't need to do anything because:

 

“You did not take adequate steps to safeguard your account. This failure compromised the security of your account information and directly contributed to allowing the transaction(s) in question to take place.”

 

Lets play devils advocate here. How was her booking information retrieved. By someone hacking into her cruise line account or by someone viewing her social media? Do we have concrete, detailed information? Having a SSL security issue on your domain is vastly different than someone going to a computer and entering your confirmation and booking information obtained from a public posting. So no, it's not irrelevant. 

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

I suspect that there will be a reckoning for the travel industry with regards to this eventually - just like there has been in the banking industry.

 

The banking industry used to be much more lax about identity verification - then they lost some lawsuits for facilitating 3rd party fraud through negligence, which are somewhat similar to this.

 

Banks have lost suits where customers have allowed their card to come into nefarious hands (customers fault) but the bank was found liable due to their security procedures being inadequate. Eventually after enough of these sorts of cases, the common practice of using a single number + last name as the only security for manipulating reservations is likely to go away in the hospitality industry - just like it disappeared everywhere else decades ago.

I agree to an extent but the issue at hand is the customer didn't do all they could to protect the integrity of their purchase, in this case it was a cruise line booking. They in fact welcomed the ability for someone to access their booking. 

I don't think this particular issue is just related to the cruiseline. I know for a fact that for an airline, you can cancel a flight w record locator, first and last name. Its that easy. There are some FC or premium seats that cost thousands as well. Its the customers fault, full stop. She made her information publicly available so she paid the price.

58 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

Oh my, there would be a huge uproar if Carnival went to a "spend more, get more" business model.  I do believe that many casino cruisers would then be royalty to Carnival.  Carnival basically treats everyone the same. That's why suites have very little benefits other than a larger cabin. On Royal, a suite gets double points and a ton of special amenities.  They do cost more, but Carnival's suite prices have been rising and the benefits have decreased (where are my free cookies!).  We cruise mostly in suites and get the same loyalty points on Carnival as someone who travels in an inside cabin.  It never occurred to me to think that those who cruise in lower grade cabins should get less loyalty points than I do.  I just go about my own business and enjoy my cruise.     

You mean how Delta did with their Skymiles program? Segments or the amount of flights don't matter, its the cost if the ticket and your in flight spend on your co branded Amex

57 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival global casino op is at a corporate level. Many cruise lines utilize it - not just Carnival Cruise Line.

That's correct. It is a Carnival company, not an outside, un affiliated company or concessionaire like Steiners of London who run the spas or Starboard who runs the gift shops. 

34 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

 

Carnival Corporation's Global Casino Operations aren't under Carnival?

 

Weird that they advertise their open jobs on Carnival Corporation website.

Carnival Global Casino Operations are a wholly owned subsidiary of Carnival Corporation, you are correct. It is not a concession like some other cruise lines .

1 hour ago, mfs2k said:

I love how people complain about free benefits. 
Loyalty programs are designed to keep passengers loyal to the brand at an affordable cost. It’s all about cost/benefit. 
When the ratio is broken they make adjustments. It’s a risky move to take away benefits from those who already have them. I don’t think we’ll see much of that. But I do see a change where there’s a renewal requirement to hold on to benefits. 

You are correct. Do people have this same energy when a cruise line status matches or someone with a credit card gets the same flying, boarding and upgrade benefit as someone who flys 5 times a month? Its loyalty and marketing 101. 

On 1/2/2024 at 8:17 AM, Joebucks said:

The whole space thing is often a topic for busybodies to find things to be upset with. If one ship has "20% more common area space," what does that truly mean? Your vacation is 20% better? Every venue is 20% bigger? There are more venues you will never use? 

 

Sure it can be an indicator of what is to come. However, what is most important is size of the venue, proportional to the size of ship and capacity. I always disliked the small clubs and shows that require a half hour wait to get a seat. Those are poorly designed. Otherwise, I could care less about math equations.

 

 

People will find the smallest nuance and complain about it, in my opinion. Just like the Q4 revenue. Someone will pick it apart and find the negative. At the end of the day, no other industry had their business shut down for 14 months with little to zero revenue coming in. Give them some time. They clearly are on the right path. 

A cruise ship terminal is a US point of entry, therefore a government/ federal controlled property. Is Cannabis legal on the government level? No, it’s only legal within some states. This is the reason. 

2 hours ago, Drew B 58 said:

It’s 2024?!?!?!  Oh no!  I missed my November 2023 cruise!!!  😉

Lol, I advanced myself a bit there! 😂

I think in this case, someone committing murder in their cabin is a bit far beyond enforcement. Look at what all the airline employees went through during the pandemic. They enforced as they could being regulated by the FAA but people still did what they want, punched flight attendants, etc. This is 2024 and some people have no decorum or regard, they do what they want. On a cruise ship, shopping mall, airline. 

This is how corporations work. They are doing a good job of paying down debt. Most companies have debt, look at Amazon. They have reported long term debt at 65 billion. 

1 hour ago, bigdaddyyo said:

When it is a safety issue I don’t think there should be multiple warnings.  If it is a nuisance issue it should be one warning.  If you set expectations up front with parents that any safety issues will have major consequences and be dealt with swiftly, then you have set the stage for what they should expect.  I would say that destructive behavior should be treated the same as a safety issue.  If a nuisance issue, I would reunite the child with their parent so they are all hearing the warning at the same time and let them know what the consequence is if it happens again.

 

Safety/Destructive issues should be immediately brought to parents attention and tell them they must have their child with them at all times.  If child is found without parent then they are banned for one year from sailing.  If another safety/destructive issue happens again, drop them at next port and ban them for life.  

It might sound over the top, but at some point you have to control the situation and make the consequences have some substance.  Other passengers will take notice and applaud your efforts.

 

The days of “Please don’t do that again”, just doesn’t cut it.

 

I agree with you. I think the issue at hand is there are so many variations of safety/ nuisance issues that it becomes hard. Kid’s running in the hallway are a nuisance, adults drunk, stumbling are also a safety and nuisance issue. There are so many avenues. Take a spin on YouTube and a vast majority of the onboard issues, at least on CCL are adults, either fighting or absolutely smashed drunk.

1 hour ago, bigdaddyyo said:

Agree!  I saw kids hitting golf balls on the mini golf course like they were Tiger Woods while others were trying to play.  I kept waiting for one to come my way. 

That’s the point of my question. How far is too far and what should the cruiseline do? 

3 hours ago, john91498 said:

Just because there's drug dogs around doesn't mean there's a drug problem.

My city has thousands of police officers around and we don't have a crime problem. In fact, my city has been ranked as one of the safest cities in America. 

You are not wrong but if you read the hundreds and hundreds of comments and the vast amount of YouTube videos of federally illegal drugs onboard then you would understand why

8 minutes ago, john91498 said:

 

Interesting, I haven't heard of any drug problems. You would think the media would have a field day if there were a drug problem on cruiselines... 

Carnival has drug dogs, not marajuana  dogs, drug dogs at each home port and also onboard certain ships. Clearly they have information that non of us do. 

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

When someone starts to bleed, the line is crossed and there is no more ambiguity or different set of interpretation. 

I agree but most of the complaints are adults & kids who are unruly, etc. What defines being unruly? I do agree w you though there is a line in the sand that must be drawn. 

3 hours ago, john91498 said:

Smuggling alcohol or drugs onboard is not the same as assault. I'm not hurting anybody when I smuggle a couple bottles of Jack onboard.

Drugs? That is a massive part of the problem and one that has many many complaints.