tennis

We drink wine and have never done the drink package because they don’t have the wine we drink included.  On Crystal having the drinks included was OK because they served great wines.  Oceania is going to have to improve the wines available by glass if they expect anyone to continue to cruise and pay for drinks they won’t drink.  We have 2 cruises scheduled with Oceania in the 4th quarter and have done the analysis and have no interest in changing to the new program.  Maybe they should have collected data from their long term customers.

We will be in Jeddah in December 2023.  Does anyone have experience snorkeling there?  Can you recommend a company to contact?

They offered nothing to us for the change on the 9/9 cruise.  The email only said they would revise any transfers for people who had bought transfers from Tarragona to Barcelona.  There was no offer to get us to Tarragona.  I find it horrendous that they can change the disembarkation port about a week before the cruise departs and have no arrangements to get us to the original disembarkation port.  They won’t even discuss with the TA or us.  I do not understand how they can make that offer on one cruise and not ours.

I am on the Sept 9 departure that was supposed to disembark in Tarragona.;  Less than a week before we leave they change the disembarkation to Barcelona.  We were not going to Barcelona.  We were staying in Tarragona.  I have called TA and Customer Service at least 2x each.  TA says that RCCL is doing nothing but contact loyalty desk onboard.  All RCCL does is read back the email they sent and refuse to elevate.  Why in the world should I have to use part of my vacation to address their poorly planned change.  They do not even have any excursions listed for Barcelona so I could look for a transfer.  I have emailed RCCL and they do not even reply.  I am livid.  At the last minute I am forced to figure out how to get to Tarragona.   I am wondering if I just cancel all future cruises with RCCL if this is how they now treat customers.

It isn’t 1% on the CDC charts to be yellow, it is 0.1%  (or 1 crew member)which is the number of passengers times .001.  So if Riviera has 1000 passengers if even 1 passenger or a crew member tests positive then it is yellow.

I do not think  it is unreasonable for Oceania not to make their requirements unequivocally clear.  We are not sailing until February on Riviera and should not have to read tea leaves to understand what they require.  Both NCL and Regent have better explanations.  Our TA asked them to clarify and their response was “read the website”.  There wouldn’t be questions if the website was clear.  My conclusion is that they do not want to be consistent so they can pick whichever one works best for them at the time.

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Hate to be the one to tell you but cruise lines are not operating inside of the US.  They are international. 

Also cruise ships are unique when it comes to disease spread.  The Diamond Princess demonstrate an R0  of over 12 for Covid.  Much higher than found in any other setting.

 

If a river cruise company is operating inside the US by law its ships must be US registered.

 

 

R0 is the rate of transmission.  The Diamond Princess was the only closed system they could use for estimating the R0 for Covid-19.  The profile of those onboard the ship is not consistent with the profile of the general population so comparing the R0 for the Diamond Princess to the transmission rate for the general population or other forms of transportation is comparing apples and oranges.  Passengers were mainly in their 70’s and almost 50% had an underlying disease.

Plus applying that to cruise ships today is another example of comparing apples to oranges.  Cruise ships have changed their ventilation systems, capacity, crew to passenger contacts and passenger to passenger contacts.

28 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Cruising should be allowed by July, considering the pace of vaccinations in the USA.  Require a vaccination or proof that you have had the virus.    We just did a trip from Georgia to Texas by air and airports are showing more passengers.  Our flights were full, however Delta had middle seats blocked unless you were traveling with others.  

I am glad some senators are pushing the CDC.  I agree cruises should start and anything that gets the CDC moving is welcome.  There is no data to show it is more hazardous than any other form of travel.  (I do think individual countries should be free to ban cruise ships visits because it is within their purview).  I do not believe everyone should be required to have a vaccination.  I have been vaccinated and think the risk is not substantial for someone my age.  There are educated people who understand how the vaccine was created that believe the roll that RNA has in cell expression may pose a risk to younger people because their rate of cell replication is much greater.  It hasn’t been thoroughly studied.  So the risk of the vaccination may be greater for some people than Covid-19 so they shouldn’t be required to have the vaccination.  I am not anti vaccination just think the risks for different populations should be considered.

I am glad for anyone pushing the CDC to do anything to get everything back open.  If you have not noticed the CDC has been wrong on many critical areas related to the virus.  The contagion (insignificant from surfaces or outdoors), death rate (orders of magnitude less than they asserted), hospitalizations (order of magnitude lower than estimated), treatments (don’t use ventilators), use of masks (the only controlled studies show no effect vs no mask mandate). 

The cruise lines will still have all employees vaccinated.  I will be vaccinated and based on comments most everyone else will be voluntarily vaccinated.  I don’t see the problem.  I will go on the cruise because I have been vaccinated.

We did cancel the April 30 Marina cruise.  I didn’t want another $10,000 tied up for several months when it takes so long for refunds.

In Charleston, SC it appears vaccinations are going well.  The State organization responsible for managing distribution keeps their web site up-to-date and they are taking appointments for those over 70 now - ahead of schedule.  Apparently more healthcare workers and other high priority people have chosen not to get vaccinated than they expected.  I know several people in their 70’s that got their first dose this week.  You just call or go online to make your appointment.  I still think it will be 6 - 8 weeks before we will be able to make appointments which is earlier than our son-in-law who has had several kidney transplants.  He has been on immunosuppressant drugs since he was seven.  I think he should have a higher priority for receiving a vaccination than we do but I am sure there are all sorts of exceptional cases.  Overall I think South Carolina is doing a good job. 

We are booked on the Marina 4/30/21 sailing from Athens.  I am guessing most on this board think it will be cancelled.  Is that correct?

Thank you Regent!  The majority of our refund showed up today as a credit to our credit card account.  This was the refund for our cruise that we were supposed to depart for tomorrow.

We just made the final payment for the Jan 3, 2021 Riviera cruise from Miami.  I may be the eternal optimist but am still hoping that we may be able to go.  We have been to all the Caribbean Islands many times and do not mind if they are not able to go to some of the ports.  I’d volunteer to be on one of the trial runs.

I agree with the posts above about no negativity from those who do not want to cruise.  Seeing the announcement really made me excited.  I feel so sorry for the people that have had their livelihoods destroyed by the shutdown.

Explorer cruise scheduled to depart 11/6/20.  Cancelled by Regent 10/5, refund requested 10/5, and refund request confirmed 10/5.  For a point of reference we had booked our own airfare on Delta.  I called to check if I could get it refunded or would only get an credit.  They would refun because they cancelled the fights I originally booked and we had the refund within 72 hours;

“The more ports the better”:  You are right, the number of cases is not meaningful.  For it to be meaningful you have to know the population it is taken from.  Many people have multiple tests while they have Covid-19.  People are more likely to be tested if they are sick.  Tests are more readily available now and so more people get tested.  So we have no idea which population has been sampled.

My group of friends is the elderly segment of the population and I still only know one person who even had Covid and they have had no after effects.  Other people have different friends and will therefore see a different sample of the population.  However, many media outlets have worked overtime to make this seem worse than it is, so people are only told about bad news, not any of the good population samples.

Paul chili: The Atlantic does not have a reputation for accurate reporting but for opinion and editorial content so I wouldn’t use them as a reference point.  If you can give a link from the CDC that would be great.

If you do decide to cruise then you should be responsible for any of the outcomes. If you are not comfortable with any possible negative outcomes then don’t cruise.  But why someone would insist that adults who want to cruise and will be responsible for themselves should be prevented from cruising sounds like life when I lived in the Soviet Union.  No one is insisting that anyone else take a cruise.

I can’t wait for cruises to restart.  If you can fly and stay at hotels there is no reason people should not have the freedom to cruise if they choose to do so.  Giving people freedom to make choices is politically motived?  Yes, I think it is great that lifetime bureaucrats who have no accountability for the downsides to shutting down industries and putting people out of business can be overruled by people that are accountable for their decisions.  If you are uncomfortable with a cruise line’s safety protocols then you don’t have to cruise.  Freedom is wonderful. 

I haven’t flown nearly as much as Tapi but my experience On Delta was very good.  Everyone I could see complied and if you look at data it bears out his comments on the effectiveness of the airlines‘ procedures.  In my opinion we’d all be a lot safer on a cruise ship than flying and going through airports.

I agree that there is no reason that cruise ships are not allowed to sail.  I was on the crowded flights and in crowded airports And busy hotels and restaurants In August and agree it is Safer and much easier to distance on cruise ships.  It does seem as if cruise companies are being treated more harshly than other forms of travel.  As I have posted several times I am ready to cruise any time.  However, the countries are required to approve opening of ports and they have not done this.  Our November Explorer cruise is about 7 weeks away.  There is no way this cruise is going to sail with passengers from the US.  Earlier posters had thought it might change from departing Barcelona (The port is closed indefinitely) to Athens but the EU is still not allowing US tourists so Athens wouldn’t work.  Israel has just implemented more quarantines for everyone and US tourists are definitely not allowed.   I have been looking forward to this cruise for a long time and really wanted it to go.  However, when even transiting some airports in the EU is not allowed or is difficult this cruise is not going to happen for US passengers.  I do not know how many of the existing passengers are from the EU Or Canada so it might be possible for them and it would be great for them if they could go.  After all this time I still only know 1 person that has had Covid-19 and they had mild symptoms.

I agree it is ridiculous.  I understand their cash flow issues, but I also have cash flow issues. We are booked on the Explorer November Barcelona to Dubai cruise.  It is obviously not going.  Barcelona cruise port is not open.  Israel is not open for cruises.  EU is not open for cruises for Americans.  The only reason this was not cancelled at the end of August was because they want to hold onto our money.  At this point I do not want FCC, I want my money back so my only alternative is to wait until they cancel.  I do not think I will ever book another Regent cruise based on how they handled this.  I am disgusted.  When there was any chance it would sail I was fine with their not cancelling but now it is beyond any reasonable chance.  Give me my money back so I can do something else.

For clarification:

1) I do not quote secondary sources for data. The data quoted is not from some unknown website but from the CDC - look it up if you want.  It takes time and some tenacity but I am used to data analysis.  As they say, you can have your own opinion but not your own facts.  I use t-tests to determine if there are significant differences between populations.

2) I do not use estimates or guesses (like the comment that the CDC thinks deaths are understated).  This is not data and based on nothing more than someone’s opinion.

3) I posted information that I thought would be encouraging to most people.  Based on what I have read on this post I have been doing a lot more travel than most others and so my info on what most North Americans are doing while traveling would not necessarily be observed by others.  If anyone has multiple serious diseases, then by all means take the necessary precautions that are suitable for your personal situation and follow your doctor’s advice.  But having facts is usually helpful in making decisions about when you might cruise again.

I was very encouraged by the data and information and thought it would be encouraging to others.  If you do not find it encouraging, fine but do not question my source of data.  If I state it is from the CDC then it is from CDC.gov and not my opinion.

Those eager to cruise again and interested in data would find it interesting what the CDC posted on their website this week.  Guess how many of the US deaths attributed to Covid-19 had only Covid-19 listed on the death certificate.  Would you guess maybe 40 - 50 %?  No, the total was 6%!  Only 6%.  In addition the average # of comorbidities listed on the death certificates was 2.6.  So over 50% of those that have died had at least 2 other serious diseases.  If you go to the site you might also like to look at the actual data on total deaths versus time. It has really tailed-off.  I haven’t seen any of this data reported in the news.  This is very encouraging news and maybe if it got publicized we can back to normal sooner rather than later.

On another topic, there have been several comments related to people following mask and other guidelines onboard cruise ships. We have returned from our trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons.  Everyone we saw in airports or on planes wore masks without prompting.  We were on 4 different flights and they were all packed.  Everyone we saw in Yellowstone complied with indoor requirements, even using hand sanitizer upon entering   Around Old Faithful it was very crowded and some people did not comply with the 6 ft or mask rule But if you wanted to distance yourself it was easy.  Nowhere else in the park did we see spacing or mask requirements violated.  In Jackson we saw 2 people not comply with mask requirements and in one case the store clerk immediately told them to put on a mask.  There were lots of people in both parks and so compliance with the requirements was very high.  Hopefully this would be the same on cruise ships and is reassuring to everyone.

We just flew from the East Coast to the Rockies - wore masks the whole way.  We are in Yellowstone and having a marvelous time.  We are ready to cruise as soon as the cruises go.  I have just rechecked my statistics on deaths in SC and it is still the same.  There is no statistical differences in deaths this year than in the previous 5 years.  Not my opinion - just facts. So don’t trash me because you don’t like facts that don’t agree with your feelings.

Unfortunately most people do not realize how the CDC calculates flu deaths.  It is based on what they calculate as “excess” deaths.  They calculate how many people would “normally” die for each week and then use an algorithm to calculate excess deaths.  That is why it is important to compare total deaths.  The way that the CDC is doing it the comparison of flu deaths to Covid-19 is comparing apples to oranges.  I have done the statistics to compare annual deaths in SC.  There is not a significant difference between deaths this year and the previous 2 years.  Also, hospitals get a bonus reimbursement if Covid-19 comes into play but do not for flu deaths.  Do you think there may be some bias in reporting of Covid-19 deaths?  I am disappointed that if I can download the data from the CDC and spend my own time doing the statistical analysis that our vaunted media outlets are unable to do the same.  As the hackneyed statement goes “if it bleeds. It leads”.

22 hours ago, pappy1022 said:

Tennis, I respect your perspective. I think we will get answers all over the spectrum. One question: If other cruise lines that are out there testing the waters are still experiencing COVID outbreaks (like the couple that are making news) in November would you still go on that Nov 6th cruise?

Absolutely yes if the staff wears masks.

I will cruise now - even if I have to wear a mask.  I spent a large part of my professional life doing statistics and know that the risk is negligible unless you are elderly and obese and in congestive heart failure, kidney failure or have diabetes.  I have used CDC data and looked at deaths for the last 20 years.  I will forgo having daily or twice daily cabin service.  I will thoroughly wash my hands anytime I leave the stateroom and maintain social distancing.  I would have no concern about catching Covid-19 or a negative outcome if I did catch.  There is a risk to everyday living and the risk of dying from Covid-19 is not significantly higher, despite all the CDC and press hysteria to the contrary.  I live in SC and personally know only 1 person that Has tested positive for Covid-19 and they had mild symptoms.  I still hope my Nov 6 Regent Explorer cruise isn’t cancelled but have just about lost all hope.