Tom504

Thank you all so much. Wonderful responses. The reason for the question was stated, but the non-stated reason was we have some very well-cruised friends who like Cunard and are suggesting we join them for what would amount to a 25 day cruise. As we reflect on this, it feels like too long a cruise with a line we have not yet experienced first hand — I think a nice 7-10 day run would make more sense. 
 

I am extroverted and my wife is the opposite. On the few cruises we have undertaken, I often met people who had been on dozens of cruises over the years, but in the end settled on one or two lines for the most part. Many of these folk settled on Seabourn for its easy, smart-casual, country club-chic, great food, suites, relatively small size (450-600 passengers), intimate feel, and all-inclusivity with regard alcohol and coffee and tea. So my goal here has been to be forthright and explain what I don’t know so as to seek the opinions of others. Nothing more or less. 
 

I appreciate the comments of all. Bluemarble places a value on the price point. Jack says it’s subjective; but of course. It is always subjective. I can’t respond to NJCruiserBoy since he didn’t really respond other than showing agitation at being asked a question; better not to answer if you have no thoughts. Nature lover girl  and others speak of the lectures, the style, the formality, the flexibility of a suit vs. a tuxedo, all very helpful; the Cunard website says one thing, but to hear from fellow travelers is the best way to discern. Re Windsurfboy,  I think it’s disingenuous to point to a question re alcohol; most people on vacation drink more alcohol (if they drink at all) than in their normal lives.  
 

All of these disparate comments have helped me fill in the blanks. I wish Seabourn had more lectures and my wife wishes they had a dedicated cinema. I wish they had a larger gym and my wife wishes they had a deck one could walk around on sea days. The Cunard daily activities on past sailings included water coloring, bridge classes, yoga, dart contests, and many other ways to spend time or be enriched. I will look to try one of these ships in the future, so again thanks to all. 

Assuming Covid is behind all of us, would you choose Cunard now? I am speaking to the group of people who have had significant experience with the Cunard ships, and assuming (for the sake of this conversation) that we are post-Covid and 'things are as they were.' That said, my interest is in trying to understand Cunard, which I have admittedly not tried. We have very good friends who sail Cunard often, usually in Britannia Club, and can't get enough of the line, regardless of ship. My wife and I, on the other hand, are relatively new to cruising (four sailings only) but all of these have been on Seabourn, with two more Seabourn sailings booked in 2022. 

I've looked at review videos and listened to various comments but many of these are from some time ago. Some opine that Cunard has changed in some fundamental ways and others feel that the line remains committed to the same values. Of course, the industry as a whole has many 'product lines' and so this thread is absolutely not meant to criticize Cunard as much as to ask where people are 'at' just now, which is March, 2021, as they imagine cruising again, likely in 2022. 

To be candid, I don't own and have never owned a tuxedo; my professions before retirement did not suggest or require dressing up on a daily basis. Of course, I own fine suits and sport coats, and can look nice when this is important. Smart casual, variously defined, is probably more my style. When I looked at the 'dress code' for a Cunard sailing, I was impressed by their various photos of what they mean by this or that. And it would be fun to go out and buy a tuxedo! But my wife tells me that my 'cargo style' shorts won't cut it. 

From the reviews, I felt it odd that wine would not be served as part of a meal. That even in the Grill Suites, one would be charged for a glass or bottle of wine. Or a cocktail. The notion of sitting at a table with others and drinking wine that is 'only ours' feels different; the notion of having to sign a chit each and every time I want a drink by the pool, or a latte during a snack period in the afternoon, or a beer as I chat with someone at a bar. 

With ultra-luxury products (Regent, Seabourn, Silversea), all with different draws (Regent packages many shore excursions and air; Silversea offers decent internet; Seabourn and its caviar), it may be that Cunard will always be oriented to formality and dancing and the overall experience. Though, I have to say, even the Seabourn shows seem oriented to people in their 80's. 

So, would you choose Cunard now? And if so, why? That is, what are the values you place most high in your decision? Price? Comfort? Formality vs. casualness? I'm sure there are other values as well. 

2SailingNomads -- Give it a rest ... people share their opinions, and so if you don't value them, keep it to yourself and not ruin the party for the rest. Opinions are just that. You seem to have a high opinion of your opinion of others. I was speaking to my experience and sharing my opinion. Try to be nice. Might grow on you.

Williwannago -- I too hope you enjoy your cruise and I would love to hear about your first; pvt message if you prefer.

Is there a cocktail other than a Manhattan?

Yes.

Jenidallas: I totally agree with your assessment. At times it is hard to drill down to discover if a 14 day cruise is really two back to back 7 day cruises or a separate thing, but this is the key piece of data we consider when booking. 

Seabourn has an attendant dedicated to a set of suites but no one called a ‘butler’— this would work against their vibe. Seabourn does not include shore excursions. Air is included in some sailings. On all sailings Seabourn is significantly less expensive than Regent. WIFI is not included on Seabourn though it becomes a perk as one advances in level status but in any case it is slow. Attention to detail, service staff, food quality are all outstanding. Cabin sizes tend to be slightly larger for the average cabin on Seabourn.

Penthouse type suites, however named on each line, are extraordinarily expensive, and should not, in my view, be a general point of comparison between these two fine cruise lines. The experience will be stilted. 

Shore excursions can be interesting but, with respect, the descriptions in the online or paper brochures are often written with a fanciful sales style, upbeat, best case, and not usually accurate. 

Replying to Camillus and MaggyCan — if the vibe feels too dissonant to what you need, consider this: on port days, don’t take an excursion. 

We we were in the Caribbean for 19 days and re-visited some of the same islands. Granted I am relatively new to ‘modern’ cruising and there are people far more knowledgeable on the board, but I discovered two things about shore excursions. The first is that there is rarely a connection to reality in the excursion description and what will happen, and that many of these islands are dirt poor and are not that interesting; this is especially true of the islands that were owned by the British. That is, the French tend to consider islands as ‘departments’ or ‘provinces’ and continue to pour in money, whereas the British ones tend to be on their own and it shows.

What I am suggesting is that you take yourself into each town, do some research first, maybe hire a taxi with agreements where to go, and then head back to the ship. In most cases you will have the ship to yourselves for hours before the majority of the excursion crowd shows back up. On the re-tresd to islands previously visited we always did this.

And as odd as this may sound to you two, we are hesitant to try the larger ships! I suppose one gets used to what one gets used to. Very much want to hear about your further travels!

So we booked our first Seabourn cruise a year out from the February, 2017 sailing out of Ft. Lauderdale. It was a 19 day affair which, in the end, was probably about a week too long for my bride. Still, we had a very grand time, and especially loved meeting new friends, many of whom came from the UK.

What we discovered along the way was that although this had initially been marketed as a 19 day cruise, somewhere along the line Seabourn broke it up into different cruise sections (or perhaps they always do but our now-fired travel 'specialist' didn't think to suggest this). I am trying to explain to distinguish different experiences at different stages of the 19 days.

The first longer leg of the cruise was calm and stately and reserved and quite fun. There was some sea days, lots of reading and chatting with people and feeling our way into a new kind of cruising and, to us, a new ship. We had lovely cabin not far from the Square and found our rhythm. The pool area was never so full you couldn't find a lounger. We tend to prefer shaded spots and were able to find those. When people got up to leave they usually but not always tossed their towels aside but staff would be attentive and clean up seating all the time. No one was leaving a book on an lounger all day and never showing up which, of course, would be rude.

Someone in their mid-60's would probably have been among the youngest 50 passengers.

This changed in the last leg which was clearly a 7 day cruise. So it felt like we booked a 12 + 7 day cruise without knowing it. As we moved into the last 7 days, the passenger average age dropped. There were 30-somethings sunbathing but no children. And I came to understand that week long cruises tend to be different in other ways as well.

At no point did the Odyssey turn into a party boat, and the rhythm continued to move along. Children would be massively bored on a Seabourn cruise; even our 20 year old would go crazy. And I suspect travel specialists and the people at Seabourn who discuss reservations with call-ins speak to this issue with regularity.

Pavovsky, thank you so much for a wonderful review! We will be on that cruise about the same time next year. 

I suspect the salty tastes come come from over-brining, just a guess though. 

On the Caribbean cruise we took in a February, 2017, on the Odyssey, my bride massively preferred the Colonnade to any other venue. We loved eating outside and early. The Restaurant was fine but you have to be in the mood for the dress up and the whole gig. On that cruise R2 was still open and more of a treat, to our tastes, than TK. Often as not we enjoyed a good burger by the pool. 

The problem we had is that we tend to eat early and get to sleep by 10. So when we’d start at 7 and be with lovely newly met people and then it was time to wander down to the show and then people wanted to wander up to the O Bar ... whew. If that was followed by an early departing excursion we were toast. 

My my favorite part of most days was afternoon tea in the O Bar. 

Overall, I also agree with Ovener, that Seabourn hits more than it misses. It’s the country club casual with typically greet service. We have not tried the larger new ships because we don’t see any upside to having more people around. Maybe we will venture out someday. 

Ovener, great post!

We are booked on a Seabourn Greek islands cruise in late August into September and may run into you. On our first cruise with a Seabourn, I adored every Brit I met. What astounded me was how you all can listen to someone speak for a few seconds and figure out from which shire they hail. In the USA we can do that in a rough regional way only. 

Re smoking, I totally understand Seabourn’s general position, but there were nuances which escaped me. The most popular smoking area seemed to be adjacent to the outside bar above the pool. However, if you wanted to smoke a cigar, you had to go outside behind Seabourn Square where, of course, there is no alcoholic beverage service. 

The strange part part is that they placed pipe smokers into the category of cigar smokers. As an occasional pipe smoker, I’ve never had anyone say anything negative about being near me while I am puffing away. Cigarette smoke is annoying but this is what most people mean by ‘smoking.’ So why Seabourn caters to cigarettes vs. cigars makes sense, but I would think their policy re pipe smokers would align pipes with the cigarette reserved area. Even so, i think smoking on a balcony or veranda would be a deal breaker for me, or any interior spaces. 

Re Europa, I would be fascinated by the different languages spoken, but would fear this could become isolating. Part of the fun of cruising is meeting other people. That is, being able to communicate. But the pay for your drinks as you go is precisely why I want an all-inclusive cruise line. If I hear what you are are saying, E2 is more expensive, not all-inclusive, allows way more smoking, harder to book, and would be more isolating. 

Since we still have a child in college who loves to be home for the Christmas season, it will be some time before we will face the upsurge in pricing for that time of year, but I totally believe those who suggest prices increase at high holiday seasons. 

I also thought the Frank del Rio piece was interesting. There may be ‘brinksmanship’ in his words, but the target market of Seabourn is not, in my view, the ultra wealthy. I suspect the market will include greater numbers of refugees from the 3,000+ ships especially as intelligent people price out the nickel-and-dime approach of these lines and tentatively step into the waters of a Seabourn or Regent or Silversea or Crystal. 

I was in the pool at the FS K’Olina last summer when my extroverted self started a chat with a man who is an executive with FS at their property in San Francisco. He noted that FS and RC and other higher end chain hotels are all doing very well indeed these days; hotel pricing in SF, particularly, has skyrocketed in recent years. Yet he acknowledged that they all know they are riding a wave. The problem, he said, is that waves flatten out while new hotels — or cruise ships — take years to bring online. 

I’m on a committee that oversees my religious denomination’s financial investments. We recently had an annual visit with the top national executives of the ‘in-house’ company that invests and manages these funds. They suggested that the market is seriously over-valued and expect a serious downturn in the next 12-18 months. I’ve heard the same from our personal financial people. All to say that pricing will remain competitive ‘within’ the market segment but it may also be that Seabourn et al are feeling their sea legs and pricing now for an expected downturn. 

Wripro is correct. A transfer via Seabourn means they contract a local car to meet you at the airport and charge more than double what a reasonable taxi will charge. The key in choosing a taxi is to look at how large their luggage capacity may be.

A somewhat different but related question is whether to utilize a last-day-of-cruise transfer from the cruise ship to the airport. Whether this is a good idea goes to when your flight leaves. Some people might prefer to spend one more night in the end-cruise city and then, perhaps the next day, have the hotel help the, to the airport in a timely fashion without the crowd. If you choose the transfer, it will usually include a sort of tour around the destination then drop off at the airport, all very efficient. 

Its at at this point — when you get to the airport — that the sense of being pampered which you have learned to expect, will no longer be present. If you have access to an airline lounge and have any time to wait, head there straightaway. If you don’t think you have access, try anyway, since most charge a per day per person cost to enter. While it might seem pricey in that moment, depending on the airport, ask yourself how long you have to wait. 

If you are a sports lover, you learn to live with regret. When the great team is assembled and wins the Super Bowl or the World Series or the World Cup, you are there rooting for your players and feel part of the game. Then comes the off season and you learn that one or more of your favorite (and essential) players have traded in glory for cash and have moved to a different team. 

Its the same with fine restaurants. A place can exceed expectations and do everything right and for a time the reservations are hard to come by. Then chefs move because they become mini-stars. It’s not to say the restaurant isn’t still good or great even. But one can spend lots of time following the gastronomic trends and, after a few years, the customer feels a bit jaded. Good food is always good food and even with a few misses here and there, you can tell when you are in the dugout with a Major League player. 

I live in Northern California and so names like Alice Waters and Thomas Keller (or the newer crop) are known to the extent one knows the other when one happens to be standing next to a movie star or famous politician. If we want to be the first to call early in the morning three months out we can be honored with a reservation though it’s often pot luck whether what’s on offer that night is something to your liking. I cancelled such a reservation when the menu was to emphasize eggplant. 

After an initial cruise on an older (at that time) Royal Caribbean ship 30 years ago, I was able to coax my bride onto a modern cruise ship in 2017. We ended up on the Odyssey for a 19 day sojourn in the Caribbean. A bit too long for a first cruise but I absolutely loved the ship, the crew, the days at sea, and to a lesser extent, the islands. The food was excellent In every venue, but I especially loved the tasting menu of R2.

That fall I coaxed her onto a 10 day Seabourn cruise from Boston to Montreal and by then the TK Grill had emerged. It was fine. I missed the different tastes of R2 but TK was fine. I just don’t quite get the marketing. An evening with Tim Rice. That was nice, interesting, like watching a special on PBS. Or the Andrew Weil connection — I’ve heard him speak, he’s smart, brilliant, but you are not getting Andrew or Tim or Thomas. You are asked to join into a group symbiosis and become a groupie or fanboy or fan girl. 

Oceania has such a relationship with a famous chef and for all I know so do the other lines. As I have said, I am a newbie cruiser. I am planning another Seabourn cruise in late January, and another after than in late August. My wife is less enamored with cruising than I am and has suggested she will go on one per year with me, but I can go with someone else if I want to take another; the conversations around who that other can be were interesting. The notion of the incredible costs of the single supplement were quite a surprise. 

I think we all make make too much of the branding of TK vs whatever. The food on Seabourn is excellent. My brother in law sails often on Oceania and says their food is excellent but he laments the extra costs and beverage packages. I watch YouTube video tours of other ships and am thankful that the first cruise after that 30 year gap was on Seabourn so my somewhat cruise-averse bride doesn’t have more ammunition against going at all. 

Its hard to get the the band back together. Or the team. It’s unwise to get too fixated. I’m extroverted so on these two cruises I asked dozens of people about their experience cruising and found many, many people who (like most on Cruise Critic boards) have cruised a whole lot. To say one line is better than another seems impossible because there are so many preferences that make up the composite conclusion. Yet, a very few lines kept coming up again and again. I suspect Seabourn has a good pulse on their target market and I for one am glad for that.