BayWatching

Considering a river cruise after multiple ocean voyages on larger ships. My wife and I enjoy—and prioritize—being able to control where and how much we interact with fellow passengers. (Not that we don’t like people; we do. We just prefer our privacy when we want it.)

I understand that Viking river vessels carry around 90 passengers.
 

Can you generally eat meals at a table for 2 if you wish? Or are most tables more communal than that? 

Is room service available for all meals?
 

And, while I’m at it, I understand one shore excursion per port is included. Is that chosen for you, or can you choose from multiple options? 
 

Appreciate the input!

4 hours ago, AlexCherie said:

I'm not the most senior person in terms of sea days - but I'm well above 100. 

The cruise I booked on the Veendam was, far and away, the best cruise I've ever been on (and you would find multiple posts of mine suggesting this). In the days just preceding our trip, there were terrible problems on board - to hear about it from posters on this website. After 25 years of sailing I thought for sure I was going to finally have my bad experience. 

Not to say you whether or not you were given a stay of execution by your TA. Who knows. Truly life is a crapshoot. 

***

What surprises me is that HAL/CCL doesn't employ someone to spend an hour a day reading websites like these and addressing the complaints directly - and even more particular to the OP's comments, why they hadn't been pre-emptive especially to someone spending so much to stay with them. They were a frequent cruiser, and not at all like me ... some rummy that takes the last interior cabin for a song. 

Compare what the OP might have expected if he had stayed at the Four Seasons, The Ritz, or Peninsula Hotels. If someone is spending $16,000 to rest their heads on your pillows ... well, I dunno. This isn't to say that Holland America is any different than Royal Caribbean or Celebrity or Oceania or Seabourn. You'll hear the complaints on every board on this website.

It just strikes me that cruising fails to reach the level of Tier 1 hotels. And hotels frequently don't have a full week or even 15 days to make a good impression. 

Cheers. And regrets to the OP. As we all know, the problem with cruising is that something gets under your skin and then all you have is many days in a row to stew over it. Gets to be like your own pearl. 
 

I didn’t originate this post thread to elicit any particular reaction(s), but yours ought to be etched somewhere for posterity. (Guess that’s called a “bookmark” these days?)

You PERFECTLY capture how this all felt (and still feels). For the life of us, we cannot understand how HAL doesn’t have systems in place to address these issues preemptively. 

23 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I didn’t see Silver to Gold saying that.

 

But sometimes, when you treat people well (or with a smile) you get a better reaction or co-operation.  I thinks that’s all they were trying to say.

 

No one is disparaging your experience at all. But, the old expression - you get more flies with honey is very true.  

 

I assume the ship was sold out?  To me if it wasn’t, you should have been moved.  Even if it was a sleeping cabin (and keep your current one).

 

 

Well said, and fair. My wife, our traveling companions and I were cordial and friendly in all interactions with ship staff. So much so that it took TWO calls before anyone grasped the urgency of the raw sewage situation and sent someone to check it out.

We never were offered alternative sleeping arrangements—or asked if we desired them. Just the cheap bottle of wine. (Our cabin steward tried mightily to erase the stench, leaving an odd mix of faint sewage and strong disinfectant for the rest of the voyage. He admitted that it happens with some regularity.) 

4 hours ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

You entire post was spot on, mkkao924, but I quote this last part because to me, this is the bottom line.  

For us, cruises have been a wonderful escape from the unavoidable trials and tribulations of everyday life.  It's so lovely to be in a clean and pretty environment, eating nice food, enjoying sea air, seeing new places, mingling with excited fellow travelers and interacting with polite, well-trained crew members.  

 

Our last few HAL cruises, we've seemed to almost have to buck ourselves up to enjoy ourselves despite a lack of delivery of most of these cruise features.  That's just silly.  We don't have HAL Stockholm syndrome.  We're reading reviews carefully and planning our vacations accordingly.

As the OP on this thread, thank you.

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I sailed the Koningsdam in 2019 and was quite pleased except the ship was far too large for my tastes.  As to the Volendam it is just finishing drydock this month and hopefully will be in good condition for my 2020 sailing (fingers crossed). 

That’s partly why the Rotterdam was so disappointing—perfect size. 

As the original poster, I can’t wait to hear your report next year. 

13 minutes ago, SilvertoGold said:

 

Agree

 

Not sure if this is a reverse case of "a smile is met with a smile"............. or what.  All our cruises on the Rotterdam have been light years superior to this experience, even when on one I wasn't a fan of the HD and GSM at all. Very perplexing.

Ok. I confess.

I was scowling at the pipe closet, thinking “... you’d better not start seeping sewage into my living space, you crummy old rusty pipe...”

And I was glaring at the concierge when she wouldn’t reverse a bar charge for a screwed up drink order; at her ghost when she disappeared from the Neptune lounge and had to be tracked down by a steward; and at her cash drawer when she wouldn’t sell the mix of currency I requested AND declined to call the front desk to see if they had the currency I needed. 
 

And I was silently cursing the verandah when its pipes began steadily leaking onto our heads, our furnishings and belongings before we noticed. 
********

I wholeheartedly respect all of the comments here that describe different, better experiences. I am perplexed by the implication that we brought on these bad outcomes by ... not being happy enough? 
 

We’d traveled on HAL before and had far better experiences than this. (As well as multiple cruises on other cruise lines.) We aren’t “problem seekers.” We just expected better service, fewer problems and more responsiveness from the staff for our considerable investment.
 

Is that clear enough? 

1 hour ago, GlennG said:

I want to thank BayWatching for his thoughtful and provoking review of the Rotterdam.  In February, my wife and I made inquiries about the Rotterdam, and more specifically, the Lanai staterooms.  To summarize, we chose not to cruise on the Rotterdam because of the information that cruise critic members provided for us.  This ship has had more than its share of problems, and we are grateful for this forum, as it provides really useful information on Holland America Line and its ships.  While we always expect the "apologists" to contribute to this forum, we understand that when numerous people share the same concerns about the Rotterdam, it seem prudent for us to avoid booking on this ship.  For us, personally, the alternatives on Holland America Line seem to be narrowing.  We don't care for the large ships like the Koningsdam and Nieuw Statendam, so our alternatives are restricted to the Vista Class ships, as well as the Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam.  Thank you, again, BayWatching and other Cruise Critic members who have provided such good information for us.  You have helped us to avoid unpleasant vacations in the future.

Appreciate that. My motive was exactly that—share our experience and hope it illuminates others’ choices. Your view of things aligns with mine. 

18 hours ago, Dunelm said:

Had a completely different experience on the Rotterdam, so I am sorry that you experienced the opposite.  I hope, though, that you try a different line.

We probably will. 

8 hours ago, Alphen said:

Sorry for you, that you had a bad experience on your cruise and I will never judge, doubt or downplay one’s personal perspective or feeling they experienced with regards to food, experience or service.

 

Having said that, we were on the first same part of this cruise, the British Isles part, but had totally different experience. Captain Bas van Dreumel and HD Marco van Belleghem lead a great ship. Although the ship is 22 years old, she is well kept and maintained, including ongoing maintenance during our voyage. Yes there are leaking glass windows if you are searching for these flaws and yes you will probably find more if you spent your vacation time looking for it. No we had none of these influence our time on board. Did we experience other inconveniences? Yes, we had our share of plumbing problems, but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing that was not fixed quickly.

Food that we had in the MDR and in the Pinnacle was great, even up a notch from what we experienced on a more recent cruise on another Dam ship. We experience our food in the way that there is no bad food, just a bad menu choice. Chef Peter Kofler has a great team and does not only serve great food, but is also visible and approachable on the ship.

 

When booking this itinerary, around the British Isles, autumn in Europe, sailing through the Channel and North Sea, we were not at all surprised by the effects of the weather and were impressed how captain and crew handled the changing circumstances and applaud the quick substitution of ports and how the captain himself explained the change of itinerary personally in the theatre. We were sorry we missed most of our ports in Wales, but were not unhappy with the substitutions and how the crew quickly adapted to changes from port tot sea days. We have had a bad weather cruise on Rotterdam before and change from port tot sea program was handled much poorer than this time.

If you want to avoid these kind of possible itinerary changes, simple, do not cruise in this region in autumn and winter. Food is always subjective, I think this thread can go on for months with observations indicating both sides and still you will never please everyone.
We still enjoyed a great cruise and were surprised by the gesture of good will on behalf of Holland America, with the reimbursement they offered, something they did not have to, since weather is not something they can control. 

Respect your opinion and that your experience was not ours, but we were not ““searching” for raw sewage. It found us. I don’t know what “our share of plumbing problems” means to you, but that is not acceptable to us while traveling—especially at that price. I’m surprised anyone would be so tolerant. 
 

if you read my original post, you’d see that we do NOT hold HAL responsible for the weather or the need to scramble in the wake of canceled ports of call. In fact, you’ll see that I commended the captain for his focus on safety. Nor did I fault them for our decision to sail in that region at this time of year. 
 

That said, HAL most certainly is responsible for the ship’s overall condition and for customer issues that are within its control. I’m glad others of you have had better experiences and hope that those of you who choose the Rotterdam in the future don’t endure what we experienced. Especially anyone electing to upgrade to a Neptune suite.
 

30 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

I've noticed a lot of polite yet glacial response from HAL employees lately.  You can't really blame them -- with poorly maintained ships and severe cutbacks in all areas onboard, they can't make things right.  All they can do is be polite and wait for the next person in line to complain.   It's sad for everybody.

That’s EXACTLY what we experienced. Example: Neptune Suite customers are eligible for add-ons, like free room service upgrades. Two years ago, we could order a burger from the Dive-In to our suite at no charge. Now, it’s $5. When we asked the concierge about it, she said (unapologetically) that “...Carnival has made changes, and we have to make them too.” 
 

Wonder if that’s behind any of this. All I know is, our experience two years ago was vastly better. Vastly. 

23 minutes ago, Himself said:

I would write a letter to Orlando telling what happened on your cruise and everything that went wrong.  One poster did that and received a good response from the company.

Thanks. I’ll give it some thought. 

1 hour ago, AncientWanderer said:

Thanks for posting, BayWatching.  It's always hard to give these reviews, because we're sad to have had the  experience and also there's always push-back from others.

 

In any case, I was agonizing over a Rotterdam cruise we have booked.  It's long and involves a transatlantic.  I'd heard of the couple of fires on another cruise, and now there's yours to add to it.  That, coupled with the pleasant sewage problem, is the last bit of info we need to make a decision.  I'm gonna start unraveling our plan.  There are other things to do out there.  I have no desire to be stuck on such a ship in the middle of the Atlantic.  Shame on HAL.

Although genuinely sorry—planning these trips is part of the enjoyment; unraveling less so—I truly am confident you’ll be better off. Hope you come back and share a great story about whatever you end up doing. Thanks for the supportive comment. 

2 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

People seem to want more given to them these days. And the internet is where people rush to whenever something happens or changes. After 50 years, the internet has become a way of life. (According to a 'puff piece' on the news this afternoon, the internet turns 50 today)

“People seem to want more given to them...”? 
Passengers were reacting to a chain of port cancellations. No one was asking to be “given” anything—except information. I theorized that a few hours of free WiFi might have given people a little comfort. (We’d already bought an internet package.) 

And the internet is where (many) people book shore tours, drivers, etc.

Focusing on this narrow point deflects from the larger point: the Rotterdam is an aging ship, not being adequately maintained, and for us, fell well short of the level of service we expected for what we paid. 

46 minutes ago, ger_77 said:

What a major disappointment for you, BayWatching!  I wonder if you'd complained to anyone about your concierge service (or lack thereof) while you were on the ship?  Somehow, a bottle of wine doesn't make up for stinky sewage seeping into your cabin, no matter how much the wine cost!  I hope you'll pen a well-worded letter to head office, with positive results to bring back here.

 

Smooth Sailing!  🙂🙂🙂

Tried talking to people on the ship. Including the concierge’s supervisor. To be honest, we felt a palpable lack of empathy from the senior ship staff. Almost as if they were consciously unconcerned. 

39 minutes ago, fatcat04 said:

My thinking as well. Going to the front desk while onboard and failing that writing a very thorough and honest letter post cruise seems a wise choice.

I know a bit about the survey business. The details I provided should have been enough to raise alarm bells with the marketing and customer relations people. Whatever time I am willing to invest in communicating about this experience will be spent here, hoping to educate fellow travelers. 

17 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

So sorry to hear this . Can the op tell us which cabin they were in please ?

7039. 

4 hours ago, DaveOKC said:

I was on the Rotterdam 18 months ago and also thought the Neptune conceirge was awful - worst we had in about 15 Neptune cruises.  She was gone about half the time, even on embarkation day - had to wait about 30 minutes for her to show up and only after I called the front desk.

This happened to us, too. Didn’t even rise to the level of poor service I remembered and documented! A wonderful food service steward went to the trouble of tracking the concierge down for us. 

43 minutes ago, kira5 said:

We missed 3 ports on our Japan cruise in August.  There seems to have been a lot of that over the last few months.    But with potential inconsistencies in ports, food, service and accommodation I just couldn't bring myself to pay anywhere near what you did.     I look for a 'good deal' in booking a cruise and hope for the best.    I can then better accept issues here and there.    But our next two vacations will be land based.    Free internet provided everywhere and I find I'm used to having it now.

 

 

True.

We knew we were paying a premium, and for that we reasonably expected (and had previously experienced) the extra touches we didn’t receive (as described in my original post.) That’s the main reason I wanted to document our experience here. For what HAL charges for upgraded suites, HAL should deliver on its promises.

2 hours ago, freestyling said:

Hope this is just a one off. I had thought I heard that HAL calls the Rotterdam their “flagship”. We have yet to cruise on her but have waiting for the 2021 release schedule to see if any of her cruises intrigue us. We will be watching for further reviews.

Not meaning to be sarcastic, but if HAL considers this its flagship, they’re in even deeper denial than I imagined. 
 

(And, in the interest of total transparency: at the end of our voyage each passenger received a $200 shipboard credit and a 15 percent discount off of  “regular rates” for a future voyage.
 

The discount is meaningless to us because we won’t again cruise HAL. (After living through raw sewage seeping into and stinking up our living space, something more substantive than a bottle of wine seemed in order. And I’d warn anyone thinking about sailing on the Rotterdam to NOT accept a cabin assignment adjacent to a pipe closet. 

15 minutes ago, bamelin said:

How is the sodium content in food on HAL compared to Princess and Celebrity?  I found Princess food on my last cruise to have very high sodium content (which for me causes bloating).  Celebrity didn't have as much sodium in it -- the food tasted fresher I think?

 

 

I haven’t cruised on Celebrity—although we  may after abandoning HAL—but food on Princess was great. Don’t recall it being over or under seasoned. 

2 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

About the wifi, ships with major changes sometimes do offer some amount of free wifi. A friend was on a RCCL cruise that had a huge noro outbreak, so bad that they returned to Bayonne a day early so that there would be a whole day for deep cleaning. When the change was announced, passengers were given free wifi to make arrangements to fly home a day early or find/change hotel reservations, etc. I'm not sure how long the free wifi was available, IIRC it was the last two days of the cruise.

 

About OP's report that people were upset about financial loss from independent tours, HAL can't be held responsible for that. If the captain was as dismissive as described, I'm a little surprised he didn't say "Then you should have bought HAL tours." But if passengers choose to tour independently, they should make sure they can be in touch with their vendors, as you do.

 

100 percent agree that booking independently carries with it the burden to deal with changes, schedules, etc. My sole point about that is that extreme circumstances sometimes justify a little flexibility, as with your friend’s cruise. And 5 ports skipped, to me, represents extreme circumstances.

i am still hunting for captain’s name and will post when I find it.

12 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

About the wifi, ships with major changes sometimes do offer some amount of free wifi. A friend was on a RCCL cruise that had a huge noro outbreak, so bad that they returned to Bayonne a day early so that there would be a whole day for deep cleaning. When the change was announced, passengers were given free wifi to make arrangements to fly home a day early or find/change hotel reservations, etc. I'm not sure how long the free wifi was available, IIRC it was the last two days of the cruise.

 

About OP's report that people were upset about financial loss from independent tours, HAL can't be held responsible for that. If the captain was as dismissive as described, I'm a little surprised he didn't say "Then you should have bought HAL tours." But if passengers choose to tour independently, they should make sure they can be in touch with their vendors, as you do.

 

Understood. The captain’s non-response was, to me, impliedly exactly what you suggest: under the circumstances, if you want access to info, you’d better pay (us) for it. 

Should add: despite replying in detail to HAL’s post-cruise survey, we have heard (and expect to hear) crickets from them. Stupefyingly bad customer service. 

1 hour ago, whitford said:

January 2019 on the Rdam, the boat looked old and beat up, needed a re-fit. Sewage problems and plumbing issues on several decks. The stewards and MDR personal are excellent, the ship needs up grading and putting the detail in order.

Amen. And to anyone thinking about paying to experience that ... I wouldn’t.