dragonlord24601

I wouldn't go there anytime soon at all or at all period. Their country is falling apart. On the one side you have KFC dude vying for the top job against another complete and utter madman who are just turning their country into a basket case. Have you seen the news how much their hospitals charge just for a swab test to check for the presence of this new virus? I am sorry but that country is not what it used to be. 20 years ago and longer in the past it used to be great, you could trust you would have a good time there and things would not get out of hand. These days their politics and country is so extremely divided against each other that one day that country will fall not from enemy forces but from division within. America is a lost cause not worth visiting.

25 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

I'm beginning to wonder why you venture out your front door. There must be germs dropping on you from all over and if the wind is up lookout.  Germs, i.e. bacteria keep us healthy.

I am not worried about germs in general. I am concerned that what the ships are doing is more of a risk than a benefit and this risk on a closed and confined environment could help spread germs rather than contain illness. On a ship you need to take more precautions to not get sick.

2 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

As long as the walls are cleaned regularly and people do not touch them, I don't see the issue either way.

Bacteria can jump and leap in an environment where outside forces influence it. For example any bacteria and fungal build up on a wall when hit by a breeze or some sort of force it forces minute particles to dislodge and move which may be the next persons hand that they land on.

It is the same with those communal wash basins at the buffet entry. You may think you are cleaning your hands but there is a buildup of bacteria and germs landing on the surrounding surfaces. When you get flows of water this will displace the air around the basin (much like the piston effect of a train that you can feel it arriving at the platform before it gets there) and the movement of hands and people also displace air, droplets and particles forcing germs and bacteria to jump and spread to other surfaces. This is why they are so unhealthy due to the number of people using them and the high amount of germs and bacteria that can build up and spread from surface to person and person to surface. Even though you are washing your hands when you complete washing there is still people traffic movement and the air moving around is enough to dislodge all those microparticles and have them land on your freshly cleaned hands.

Every time I have gone though the area I keep a wide berth and politely decline. If I am asked why then I will give them an explanation.

21 hours ago, bazzaw said:

I have had to cancel a Qantas flight to Japan ( as the cruiseship I was to join has cancelled the cruise due to coronavirus) . I cancelled the flight using the Qantas website – and it said that it would cost me a $200 cancellation fee. But since then I have heard nothing from Qantas, no refund into my CC account and of course , as always it is impossible to contact them in any way!!! The booking has disappeared from my Frequent Flyer account so it appears to have been cancelled. Any others with experience in this matter?? What to do??

I had extended family booked for Japan and they booked flights directly through Qantas. Qantas gave an immediate full refund based on the cruise being cancelled and did not ask for proof or anything. No cancellation fees and the refund was immediate but took 3 days to appear on the account.

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

I don’t think China is the main issue anymore although I do agree that Travel needs to be restricted as is current. 

China was always the issue. The numbers of diagnosed in China are far too great for the virus to have started in December with a two week incubation period. More likely last September or October and their government sat on their hands and kept it secret. That is why it is popping up in Iran, Italy and other places where it cannot be traced. The incubation period is far too long and the Chinese swept it under the carpet for far too long. It doesn't matter anyway as the virus is inflicted on the world now and it would not surprise me if anyone in Australia feeling sick or ill over Christmas or New Years actually has already had it.

2 hours ago, possum52 said:

Have you ever used these basins at the entry to the buffet? You don’t touch the tap or the soap dispenser - they are automatic. I have seen them cleaned regularly by staff. It is more likely that you will catch a virus from someone who coughs or sneezes on you than you catching something from the hand basin which has splashed on you. Hand sanitisers are not necessarily the best thing to use. Nothing beats soap and water.
 

Leigh

I have never used them as I think they are very unhealthy and not clean enough for my use. I usually take my own soap dispenser for my cabin. I also do not use guard rails or lifts either so I think my hands are fine from cabin to buffet. I will use the sanitiser though but definitely not the communal wash basin. Bugs and germs could thrive in such a moist environment. With my work I am interacting with the general public every day including physical contact. I always wash my hands privately with soap before eating and for the past few years I have not caught the flu and even get vaccinated for it. When I see others knocked down at my workplace with bugs and viruses then I know I am doing the right thing when I do not catch them. The issue I have with the communal ones at the buffet is there is too much people traffic for them to be effectively cleaned. With my work I am dealing with the frail, elderly and people who could have compromised immune systems. I take my health seriously and have always had my doubts about the communal wash basins as being dangerous instead of helpful.

4 hours ago, mr walker said:

You have failed to comprehend pretty  much anything that travelpeon wrote. In the study you quoted, the 'bowl' was a communal one, which used the same water over & over, nothing analogous to handbasins with running water & soap that are used on cruise ships.

The referenced article was given to show how studies can be influenced by the sponsor, not to hold up the Guardian as the bastion of truth. travelpeon then listed a number of points that we should be mindful of when considering reports, irrespective of the source - leftwing, rightwing or indeed centre or no wing.

 

I will continue to use the handwashing facilities provided on ship and elsewhere, including I note by surgeons in hospital operating theatres.

After watching the virus outbreak I am now worried. I do not think those hand washing basins at the entry to the buffet are clean and healthy and will be politely declining to use them or go near them. I will take my own hand sanitiser if need be but I will not be using a communal hand basin. The issue I have with it is that there is moisture there, water splashes and the temperature is just right for all sorts of bacteria, viruses, germs to thrive and flourish. I am worried that even if I did wash my hands and cleaned them thoroughly that they would become instantly dirty again if splashes from other people or germs found their way onto my hands after I cleaned them and that is not a risk I want to take.

4 hours ago, lyndarra said:

And extreme right media sources are reliable and truthful?

I do not read any extreme right or left wing media articles. I found a website that lists them and I only read or watch news from impartial sources that are not politically biased. The Guardian is one I will never take seriously.

43 minutes ago, travelpeon said:

The study is for comparing a communal bowl of standing wash water.

Under the Conclusion:

"In the absence of running tap water in most locations, provision of “bowl water” for handwashing in preschools has been a common practice within the Accra Metropolis. The current study demonstrated the presence of microbes of faecal and zoonotic origin in some of the swabs and water samples examined (except for rotavirus)"

 

The sample size was 3 water sources + 3 hand swabs from 6 schools in Ghana*, though logic does follow that sharing someone else's wash water isn't a wise health idea.

 

The hand blower vs paper towel bacteria spreading research is largely done as sponsored studies by the corporations which produce such things https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/25/hand-dryers-paper-towels-hygiene-dyson-airblade 

 

I think the standalone highly visible washing stations near the entrances of buffets or other dining venues is a good thing.  In fact, add some to the youth clubs when checking in and out.  You can wash your hands in the cabin AND at the hand washing station which is assuredly better than sharing serving utensils and public common surfaces with the people who don't wash at either.

 

* Publishing in a journal doesn't mean something is reliable science.  It's one of the most startling things I learned from a few friends who got their science PhD's in different areas from excellent universities.  It could be

• Outright fraud https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/10/what-massive-database-retracted-papers-reveals-about-science-publishing-s-death-penalty , https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/feb/18/haruko-obokata-stap-cells-controversy-scientists-lie , https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/08/researcher-center-epic-fraud-remains-enigma-those-who-exposed-him
• Problems with reproducibility after publication (other researches will take the procedures and reliably reproduce)
• Errors
• Lack of sufficient sample size
• Insufficient peer review
• Funding bias as they seek to prove a specific hypothesis.  Sometimes the lack of research for an opposing view is a matter of funding. 

With the articles I never read anything related to the Guardian as they are considered an extreme left oriented media source and unreliable or fictitious news.

It is something I would like to do more research on because with the number of viral cases on that ship I no longer feel safe with existing sanitisation methods. The whole bowl could be a breeding ground for bacteria and virus.

We have just seen what can happen on the Diamond Princess with virus and transmission and now the death toll stands at three. I was looking at some news articles and saw a picture of the handwashing basins at the entrance to the buffet. I began wondering are these hygienic so I did some research. I found this publication https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijmicro/2016/2617473/which does not reassure me and makes me think that it is best not to wash your hands at communal stations at all but rather to do it in your own cabin. Although passengers are not sharing the water there is the possibility of splashes and water vapour. Those hand dryers in toilets are also full of bacteria. What people do not know is that when you wash your hands and dry them those machines suck up all the air and moisture including urine and fecal vapours and then spread all those germs over you newly washed hands.

Is it time for a rethink in hygiene on ships, what are your thoughts on this subject. If you go on a cruise again will you use the communal washing basins or politely decline?

With South Korea getting more cases of the virus I have seen reports that it will not be allowing cruise ships for the foreseeable future. This as I see it has laid up the Diamond Princess, Sapphire Princess, Majestic Princess, Spectrum of the Seas, Pacific Explorer and Westerdam which are now either out of service or have a series of cancelled cruises.

3 hours ago, possum52 said:

Sarah, because it is a Daily Mail article, I don't neccessarily believe all that is written in the article. I don't know why they are asking Trump to get them home. I doubt, until they are are tested negative that they will be allowed to leave by the Japanese and I agree that it would be not the best thing to fly with pneumonia. As for David being in a wheelchair, that statement from the son is all over the place - 'Dad is very weak. He can't walk around — he's in a wheelchair now. I haven't seen him in a wheelchair, but mum tells me he has to be put in a wheelchair to go from the ambulance to the hospital.' I would think that would be normal. 

 

Leigh

I operate the same with news articles. Anything like The Guardian is immediately not looked at which is extreme left as is any news source that is extreme right. Generally it is same to read articles right down the centre that are not politically biased.

34 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

Another 99 people on the Diamond Princess have tested positive to the coronavirus. Probably a good idea to be removing groups of passengers to their home countries as USA, Australia and New Zealand have now done. Better that they should be in smaller groups. I hope all passengers and staff from the ship manage to recover fully if they are, or do become, unwell.

Incubation period of up to two weeks. Where were they all two weeks ago? At a massive party in the ships three deck atrium with a supply of free drinks, crowds, farewells and close physical contact. That explains the spike we will see in the coming days when all the passengers were grouped together in one large area with all those germs to spread. They probably all had contracted it by then.

1 minute ago, npcl said:

I very much doubt that Japan is going to want to deal with any cruise ships, even those hitting mostly Japanese ports. As the Diamond Princess shows all it takes is one infected person getting onto the cruise ship to turn into a major outbreak with all kinds of bad press and large numbers of patients and a quarantine problem.

 

Far easier for Japan to simply say closed for cruise ships and focus on the other elements of the outbreak.  Especially with getting ready for the Olympics this summer. 

 

Princess may want to do that, but would be surprised if Japan gives the OK.

 

 

Their laws differ somewhat in regards to that. The company is liable for far more compensation to Japanese guests if that were to happen. With the banning of all people boarding the ships who have been through mainland China it should be enough. As I said these are just preliminary plans head office has at the moment in the event that Diamond Princess is laid up for longer. The majority of guests booked on Diamond Princess will be Japanese and it is business as usual in that country.

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

The Sapphires primary home base was Singapore going to a number of ports that have closed to cruise ships, or become very uncertain, as well as some China cruises.  With the virus count going up in Singapore. The recent experiences with the Diamond and HALs Westerdam, it makes no sense to continue those cruises.  Pretty much any other ship that was slated to go to South East Asia between now and June have had those cruises canceled.  I expect Sapphire to get pulled out of Asia, as I would also expect Diamond.  With what I expect is going to be a rather large drop in cruise booking I would not be surprised to see Diamond be the first ship to be laid up while the outbreak proceeds.

Head office is considering it as all of Diamond Princess's itineraries were strictly limited to Japan only with either South Korea or Russia as the international stop. With this in mind there is the possibility of saving losses and keeping those sailings provided they can supply a ship that has not been exposed to the virus. They are still working on it but yes it is part of the contingency plans to minimise financial loss and disruptions. Why have two ships out of service when you can simply swap them around and rely on one in the safety of an area largely untouched by the virus.

2 hours ago, suzyed said:

The N95 masks are what I just purchased and it came with multiple filters. We will try to use them on our flight. If nothing else, it will keep us from touching our own faces so we don’t spread  germs from our hands.

I would suggest ear plugs and a pair of swimming goggles as well. Any microparticles from the virus can land in your eyes and enter your immune system that way. The facemasks are useless however they will protect you if you are wearing goggles, ear plugs and have bandaged any cuts or grazes on your skin.

Remember who you heard it from but there are plans right now to swap the Diamond Princess with the Sapphire Princess to resume sailings if the Diamond Princess needs to be laid up for months in a deep clean. The Sapphire Princess is an identical sister of Diamond and was due to go to Shanghai and have a lengthy Chinese charter exclusively for their market after some regular cruises with Princess. That has all been cancelled as such Sapphire Princess is available to swap with Diamond should the need arise.

Just now, npcl said:

Not identical.  The diamond was  modified for the Japanese market. While the same class ship, the sapphire did not receive those changes.

That is right but they are still identical with the lack of the Japanese baths and the sushi restaurant the public rooms and cabin layouts are exactly identical so all passengers can be swapped over as they share the same capacity.

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

In Singapore, the current media campaign is emphasising frequent hand washing And not the wearing of facial masks, which should only be worn if you are actually unwell. 

Face masks are useless. Any microparticles of the virus can get into your eyes and enter your immune system that way. As soon as you blink and the virus has touched your eyes then you are infected. Also entry via ear canal or any open cuts or wounds like shaving cuts or scratches on the skin the virus can enter the body.

Remember who you heard it from but there are plans right now to swap the Diamond Princess with the Sapphire Princess to resume sailings if the Diamond Princess needs to be laid up for months in a deep clean. The Sapphire Princess is an identical sister of Diamond and was due to go to Shanghai and have a lengthy Chinese charter exclusively for their market after some regular cruises with Princess. That has all been cancelled as such Sapphire Princess is available to swap with Diamond should the need arise.

They are planning to swap it with the Diamond Princess in the event that the ship needs to be laid up for some time. It was futile to continue the current planned voyages of Sapphire Princess in Asia given the circumstances so the head office has planned for a swap and will release information in due course.

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

You asked for a lawyers advice, I gave it. They aren’t discriminating on basis of domestic relationship. married people book solo too at times, and have the same possibility of being told no.

 

but anyway you seem convinced so take them to the Federal Circuit Court.

 

I can assure you if you were to ask me to act for you I’d be demanding a big fat sum in the trust account first and wanting written acknowledgement that I had told you that the case was, in my opinion, doomed.

Brisbane41 is correct. You are incorrect. It has nothing to do with being married or not. It is illegal to withhold sale of cabins based on gender, race, sexual orientation, domestic status. If cabins are available for couples and the same cabins are not available for a solo guest then it becomes a form of discrimination and is against the law.