neutrino78x

14 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Shudder to think what you use as your periscope 🥵

Want to see my periscope, baby?

picture of USS Florida SSGN-728 (formerly SSBN-728) Control Room

Now you've seen my periscope. :) Well not mine, but this is a picture of the Control Room on my first boat, after it was converted to SSGN; it looks pretty much the same. 🙂 Control is a combination of the bridge and the Combat Information Center on a surface ship. We don't have an actual bridge except when we're running on the surface. Then the officer of deck and two enlisted lookouts go to the top of the sail (the square part on top of the boat) and the OOD gives orders from there. The periscope is retracted when we're deeper than Periscope Depth; there's nothing to see anyway. Sonar is much more effective. (light basically doesn't penetrate below 200 feet or so.)

Our periscopes are immediately behind (aft of) where the Captain is standing (Commander Ott), on the raised platform. The officer in the blue Poopy Suit (jumpsuit uniform) near the periscopes is the officer of the deck. 🙂 They are probably still submerged, since he is not looking through the periscope. When I wasn't doing sonar, I sometimes stood helm/planes. The helm/planes watches are the guys seated with their hands on yokes in front of them (Seaman Porter and Petty Officer Curran). Normally the guy on the left (starboard, we are facing aft) controls course and the guy on the right (port) controls the depth control planes and sets the bubble (angle of the boat) in accordance with the orders of the Diving Officer of the Watch, who is in this picture apparently Senior Chief Moore. His job is "to reach and maintain ordered depth". Petty Officer Gibson to their right (port/inboard) is Chief of the Watch. He controls the gas mixture, tanks, water movement etc. (the DOOW will tell him how much water to take on or pump out in order to become bouyant at ordered depth. Yes, basically they're doing Archimedes Law. The qual cards for both these watches are almost as long as my qual card for becoming Qualified in Submarines.)

(and lmao at your post.)

Windstar, I am concerned that none of your ships are registered in the USA. You are a US company. Why not have General Dynamics manufacture some ships for you, fly the US Flag, and hire some US Merchant Mariners as crew? General Dynamics Electric Boat is the beloved organization that built all of our modern fleet of nuclear submarines (I was an enlisted submariner). They do a great job manufacturing ships and submarines here in the USA. If not have General Dynamics make you a new ship, perhaps buy a US Navy Destroyer about to be decommissioned, and refit her for passenger operations and natural gas fuel. Or buy a decommissioned aircraft carrier and do the same.

If you went to a US Flag Fleet, then in the future when you need to be bailed out again due to another emergency, the willingness might be there to bailout your cruise operations.

Plus, if you operated US Flag vessels, you would be contributing to our national security, by providing additional capability for movement of material and troops in time of war. You could also compete in the market to deliver food to 3rd world countries for USAID; that program is done only with US Flag vessels, for obvious reasons.

There is also the added benefit that you could go from one US port to another without having to go another country. For example you could sail from Ft. Lauderdale to San Juan without having to go to another country.

The main reason to do Flag of Convenience is so you don't have to pay the crew as much, don't have to be subject to US jurisdiction on The High Seas, and don't have to have the same safety standards as a US Flag vessel (or UK, France, Japan, Italy, Germany, any non-FoC flag, basically the flag of any country with a good Navy).

But I hope you would consider some of the benefits of flying the US Flag, since you are a US company. Thank you for your time, sir.

I would trust sailing on a Costa ship in 2020, in terms of COVID-19, since it is Italy Flag. 🙂 Same with the P&O ship that is UK Flag. 🙂 Both countries are NATO allies, and each has a strong Navy.

The ones from other companies that do Flags of Convenience, not so much.... 😮

So, in the British "Merchant Navy", do they call it "plankowner" if you're on the initial crew of a new launched ship? That's what they call it in the US Navy (combatant Navy). 🙂

Yale University is extremely well regarded throughout the world.

People associated with Yale wrote:

" As Singapore-based writer Michael Richardson shows, drugs, banned weapons, and contraband items are hidden in the cargo hulls of ships officially meant to be carrying goods as innocuous as timber or scrap iron. In the most recent extension of the global war on terrorism, however, the US is considering partnering with allies to interdict suspect ships on the open seas. Whether Washington will pursue this without a mandate from the United Nations is still uncertain. One course would be to tighten shipping regulations and enforce them better. But if there is any indication of an imminent transfer of weapons of mass destruction to a likely hostile group or nation, Washington - in its current mood - may decide that the end justifies the means. - YaleGlobal "

https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/crimes-under-flags-convenience

FishWise is a credible organization associated with various famous marine biology and oceanographic research aquariums such as the Monterey Bay Aquarium and Aquarium of the Bay here in California. They say:

" Unfortunately, fishing related industries–most notably shrimp peeling and processing operations in Thailand and “Flag of Convenience” (FoC) fishing vessels throughout South East Asia and West Africa–have been linked to human trafficking. "
https://fishwise.org/human-rights/human-trafficking-and-imported-seafood/

It's a big issue for many reasons.  Labor issues, safety issues, national security issues. Others can do what they feel comfortable doing, but personally, I definitely would not support FoC under any conditions.

Of course, that has nothing to do with Viking, because their ships are registered under the flag of Norway, a NATO ally which is NOT a Flag of Convenience. I would gladly sail with Viking any time, because of that.

But I would never sail on the FoC ships that NCL operates, for example, for the reasons I have already stated, among others. I would sail on the US Flag ship operated by NCL, however, since it is not a FoC and doesn't have the issues associated with FoC.

"The exploitation of factory sweatshop workers in countries with cheap labor is well-known.  There is also serious exploitation in another sector of the labor market.  Seafarers are essential to the operation of the global economy with about 90 percent of all international cargo transported by sea.  These workers are underpaid, overworked and subjected to dangerous onboard conditions.  Limited international regulation of maritime labor and "flags of convenience" exacerbate the problem, leaving crews with little recourse against exploitative practices."

https://www.globalpolicy.org/nations-a-states/state-sovereignty-and-corruption/flags-of-convenience/49819.html?ItemId=1032

On 2/3/2020 at 2:05 AM, Heidi13 said:

Might not want to believe everything you read on the internet, especially when it is comes from what is basically a union. Didn't read the link, since I noted the "ITF" in the URL. They aren't known for balanced reporting.

 

Thanks for the info, but having spent 40 years in the Merchant Navy mostly on passenger vessels,

 

I was United States Navy, so I know something about the subject myself.

I will NEVER ride on a ship flying a Flag of Convenience. It's a human rights issue and a moral issue. Norway, of course, is a NATO ally with a decent Navy, though not as powerful as ours or that of Britain, so definitely not a FoC. Places like the Bahamas, Bermuda, Panama, etc., those are your flags of convenience.

" Flags of convenience are a huge problem that enable many illegal practices, including forced labor, "
--Abby McGill, International Labor Rights Forum

https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/flags_of_convenience_are_another_wrinkle_in_human_trafficking_tragedy

 

So I've seen some web sites that mention certain Costa ships that have water slides. But it looked like they were for kids. Are there any Costa ships that have water slides for adults? (or at least "adults" like myself, lmao.)

How about bowling or miniature golf? It looked like there was one that had a golf simulator. I'm not a golfer, but I imagine that if I were on a cruise, I would try the golf. 🙂 Same question for bowling...any of them with bowling alleys?

I'm attracted to them because they fly the Italian flag, rather than a FoC, and yet don't seem to be as formal as, for example, Viking (Viking is also not FoC, which makes me interested in Viking also).

So what can you guys tell me about that? 🙂

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

The Viking crew are very well treated and looked after by the company, however it isn't based on Flag State. Viking's terms and conditions for the crew are their company standard, which is way better than Flag State Marine Personnel Regs and the other cruise lines.

Are you kidding, it is very much about the flag state. If the ship were flagged in the Bahamas, they wouldn't be required to pay at least the minimum wage in Norway, they wouldn't be required to fulfill the crew safety requirements of the Norwegian (equivalent of the) Coast Guard, etc. It's a big issue for the sailors who operate vessels upon the High Seas:

https://www.itfglobal.org/en/sector/seafarers/flags-of-convenience

No FoC for me. As a Navy veteran I would never support that. That's why Viking would be a top choice for me, and I would cease sailing with them if they changed flags to a FoC. :)

I would definitely feel safer on a ship under the flag of Norway -- a NATO ally with a descent Navy (though not as powerful as that of the USA or Britain) -- than on one flying a Flag of Convenience! And I would know the crew is taken of better too!  🙂

On 1/15/2020 at 2:44 AM, chengkp75 said:

 However, a diesel is a "compression ignition" engine, meaning that the heat of compression of the air in the engine provides the ignition source for the fuel.

You're right that compression ignition is correct...I also could be remembering the wondering incorrectly...it might well have said "compression ignition"....this was 17 years ago. What I was trying to say is that I eventually figured out, from reading the manual, that there is no spark plug in a diesel engine. Within my field of expertise, I can't think of the Navy getting things wrong in their technical manuals. Maybe not necessarily wording things the way I would have, but per se getting it wrong, I do not recall anything like that. I don't even remember anything being wrong in any of the submarine technical manuals. Might be a surface Navy thing.

The point of the story was that the a-gangers ("machinist mate, auxiliary" as opposed to nuclear machinist mate) are playing a joke on electronics guys, making us  hunt through manuals, when a car guy or mechanical type of guy would say, off the top of head, "there are no spark plugs on a diesel, shipmate"...but it's actually a good thing because submariners are expected to be able to solve problems outside of our field of expertise -- that's the whole point of getting Qualified in Submarines -- so I support the practice, and am amused by it. :) lol :)

On 11/18/2019 at 12:35 PM, zltm089 said:

 Some age very well....like a fine wine!!!

An older woman is more likely to be a similar place in life as me...her kids, if any, would be adults now, she is not looking for more and probably not looking to get married again. 🙂 I wanted children when I was younger, but no one has ever liked me back and I've always had financial and logistical issues that would be a problem for a relationship, at least a conventional one, and definitely a problem for raising kids.

lmao disregard my post...I realized we were just looking at the stern from a funny angle. 🙂

15 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Never heard of US nuclear subs having diesel engines, how do you provide oxygen to the engine while submerged?  I've heard of the AIP systems used by other countries to fuel heat engines with liquid oxygen, so could you explain?

We would come up to periscope depth and snorkel 🙂 (the diesel mast sticks up above the water and draws air into the diesel and the exhaust comes out through the same mast). Also we normally run the diesel when coming in and out of port, and fire up the nuclear reactor at sea.

Of course, in many situations, you would not want to snorkel, because that would reveal your position, so instead of going to the diesel, you would go straight to the ship's battery that drives the outboard. 🙂 (the battery system, of course, also provides general "hotel power".)

One way they like to trick you if you're an electronics guy like I was (sonar tech), when you're getting Qualified in Submarines and you are doing your Diesel Propulsion checkout, is ask you how many spark plugs the diesel has. Being a computer nerd, and not knowing much about cars, that had me pursuing the manuals! Finally it hit me when I read (for the fourth time) in the beginning of the manual that a diesel engine is an "external combustion machine". External combustion! Hence no spark plugs....a trick question! lmao. You have to learn all the major systems and how they work and how to deal with their failure modes...nuclear reactor, diesel, "trim and drain" (the system that moves water around to change depth, fight fires etc), potable water, high pressure air, torpedoes, hydraulics, etc. and of course you qualify as Advanced Firefighter and Advanced Damage Control (everybody does), and after you learn all this stuff you do a 2 hour board interview with a Line Officer (in my case The Ship Diving Officer, BS in physics...submarine officers have to have STEM degrees so they can learn advanced operation of the nuclear reactor), a senior enlisted person who is assigned to work with the reactor and a senior enlisted person not assigned to work with the reactor...and can they can ask you anything they want. Literally. The weight of the diesel. What kind of nuclear fuel we use. How to pressurize a compartment...you have to know this off the top of your head. It's hard  but everybody has to achieve it in less than 12 months or risk getting sent to the surface Navy. 🙂

chengkp75...I might join Military Sealift Command...something I look at a lot. My civilian life has been disappointing, need to make some changes. Read where the Captain of an MSC ship said if you liked going to sea but hated being in the Navy, MSC is for you. lol. Other submariners have said that the Puddle Pirates don't count time in Control (room where the officer of the deck drives the boat, where the periscopes are) as having stood navigational watches because we're underwater and therefore not subject to The Rules of the Road. Makes sense in a way but means I would basically start out as deck div, not sure if I want that...

On 1/11/2020 at 6:34 PM, calliopecruiser said:

Yeah, but that's life......at least life for me.  I had to stop asking that question, or go mad.

 

I know what you're talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. 😞

For me, if I went on a cruise, I would go alone, because girls/women never like me back. I'm going to be 42 this month and never had a GF...always wanted one....the temporary (but consistent for several years) reason is logistical/money issues, and the long term reason is just (apparently) a combination of being unattractive and having a personality that is good for friendship but doesn't inspire romantic feelings in anyone...

regardless, a cruise  seems like it could be nice if I got on the right one. Having been in the Navy, it might be nice to go on a ship as a "rider", as we called them. 🙂

On 9/17/2018 at 6:26 PM, Small is better said:

 

The only Frisco I know of is a city in Texas! No one from northern California would call San Francisco 'Frisco'. They might say 'San Fran' but never 'Frisco'. That's like pronouncing Houston Street in Manhattan as if it was a city in Texas and not House-ton. LOL

You're from the Bay Area? Me too. Silicon Valley. Grew up here since age 5. 🙂 Maybe I see you on a cruise someday 🙂

11 hours ago, Geosez said:

would hope that the largest part of the VO demographic would know how to dress decently, although there have also been stories of aberrant fashion choices, too.

 

I do, but I left the Navy for a reason! No more dress blue uniform for me and definitely no tuxedos! 🙂 This is the dress/formal uniform for enlisted personnel like myself! (not me in the pic! I was a submariner not some surface guy! 🙂 )
Navy dress blue uniform (cracker jack)

And then when the submarine is at sea, enlisted and officer both wear this, with athletic shoes (officer would have gold nameplate and gold dolphins and a khaki belt, enlisted white nameplane and silver dolphins, black belt):

Navy coveralls

(no girl has ever liked me back...but hypothetically, were I to get married, the dress code would be casual, just like my cousin's wedding...she's 1/4 Korean and 1/4 Hawaiian, her mother grew up in Hawaii, and casual weddings are common there!)

No more uniforms for me!!! lol if I went on a cruise I would pack t-shirts and jeans and just not go to the full service restaurants, I don't like full service anyway! All good 🙂 lol lol 🙂

They should have two more propulsion systems as backup. On submarines the nuclear reactor is the main propulsion system, and we have a diesel engine as backup which can also drive the boat at high speed (our max speed is classified) and then there's the outboard, a small electric propeller that can drive the boat off battery power, at a very low speed.

Sounds like they have backup power but not backup propulsion (or at least not sufficient backup propulsion). Oh well, Norway has a decent Navy (one reason why they are not a FoC), they'll get everybody to safety. 🙂

On 1/9/2020 at 8:13 PM, Scrapnana said:

 The piano entertainer is Diane Slagle from Ketchikan.

ooh, I've been to Ketchikan! In the 80s the existence of the base was classified, but now, we can say it exists and say we went there. I can also say that we submerged in a static dive and AT&T donated telephone time, so we could call anywhere on US soil for 2 minutes, while submerged 🙂 I called home, trying to get my dad, but my little sister (in high school at the time) answered. She was unimpressed that I was calling from a submerged submarine. lol. The time was 0200, 2 o'clock AM. But yeah the base has a web site now,

https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Warfare-Centers/NSWC-Carderock/Who-We-Are/Ketchikan-Alaska/

While we were going back out to sea, we caught some fish and baked them, and ate topside. A civilian sailboat passed by, and apparently asked on the bridge to bridge radio if they could join us. Of course, the Captain said, negative! lol 🙂

This was on USS Florida SSBN-728...must have been 1999, because I remember I wasn't Qualified in Submarines yet, so I could not join the parties going ashore. It is an intellectually rigorous certification, requiring months of study, where you learn all major ship systems and emergency operations, and then you have a 2 hour board interview...if you don't get to the board interview and pass it in 12 months, you might be sent to the surface, considered not smart enough for submarines. after 9 months you are assigned even more duties (we already get very little sleep on subs) as punishment for being too close to 12 months...it took me 10 months but I made it.

Anyway, the whole crew can't go ashore anymore. We used to do that, but apparently a few years before I joined the Navy, one submarine crew went to Ketchikan all at once, and most of them got drunk and trashed the town, and the Captain had to write a letter of apology to them. So now, little groups of five or ten people can go into Ketchikan. At least that was true when I was in, I got out 2003, it could have changed by now.

What non-alcoholic choices do they have? I assume they offer soft drinks such as Coke or Pepsi? If not, do they have Sparkling Apple Cider? On the submarine, we drank Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Cider on holidays in lieu of wine, as alcohol is not allowed on a USN submarine without special permission from the Captain. It's good stuff 🙂

NSnJW,

Have you tried some of the non-FoC cruises, like P&O Britannia (I think Britannia is the only non-FoC one for P&O UK), Holland America (Norway flag), Costa Cruises (Italy), etc?

I heard on another sub-forum on here that Costa has a "young" vibe, maybe that's one I would want for transatlantic. 🙂

15 hours ago, NSnJW said:

NCL has one US flagged ship that circles Hawaii.  They are pretty laid back.  I have done a NCL cruise and never entered the full service dining rooms.  NCL also has a great solo program so you can find people to dine with if you wish.

Yeah, the NCL America would definitely be the ship I would want if I were looking for a cruise around Hawaii...I was thinking of a transatlantic one though. I'm not sure if any of the non-FoC ships offer something comparable to a typical NCL ship...but I don't want to support FoC 😞

17 hours ago, G.M.T. said:

Depends on how much the ship is rolling.

lol! I don't drink, but if I did, I would definitely order one of the James Bond drinks...a Vesper martini, a vodka martini shaken not stirred, etc. 🙂 James Bond rules 🙂

10 minutes ago, unrealHeather said:

  I don't know about drinking tap water from the room, as it isn't safe on all ships to drink from the tap.  

Really? It should come from the evaporator just like on a Navy ship right? If the ship flag is Italy, surely the Italian equivalent of the Puddle Pirates, I mean, the US Coast Guard (in the Navy we make fun of the Coast Guard by calling them Puddle Pirates...they call us Squids), requires the drinking water to be safe? 😮

Where's that Merchant Marine Engineering Officer who commented earlier?