mysteryz

If I had to guess, cruises are going to be canceled through May or June. And then again once fall flu season hits. Those that took credits will lose them if there is bankruptcy.

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11 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Have you not been watching the news? You’re probably safer on a cruise ship than on land at this point. There’s no more cruise ship cases on the news, while it’s spreading like wildfire on land, with state of emergencies, closures, and even whole-town quarantines. Probably because sanitizing is better controlled and cleaning more diligent on the ship. I will feel safer on the ship Sunday than I feel in NYC today pre-cruise.

did you read about the cruise ship with over 700 confirmed cases? that likely started from one person? 

did you read the article that its been found in HVAC systems? it could even spread through flushing the toilet?

are you able to take the risk that if any of the 3,000 possible other passengers have flu-like symptoms, the boat may not be able to go into a port, and you may be stuck aboard?

this thing is probably already everywhere and we are going to start seeing cases explode in the next week or two, if its everywhere, it will spread through cruise ships with lightening speed. we just dont have a lot of good information at the moment. we (USA) really dropped the ball on this. we could have had better prevention methods in-place, ramped up certain things, shut down borders, etc.

24 minutes ago, Noworkforme23 said:

 
mortality rate is 1%

mass media creates mass hysteria. 

you have a greater risk of dying from the flu. 
the paranoia is ridiculous. 
 

facts:

we dont know the true mortality rate

we dont know how many cases

we dont know how many recoveries

we dont know how many severe cases

we don't know how many that are recovering are ending up with major complications/internal organ damage

recovery can be long... and painful.... some reports say 32 days on average, if you get the bad strain

its very easily transmissible, virus seems to live longer than flu virus on surfaces, in air/droplets/whatever

hospitals are overwhelmed and under-prepared (just look at other countries, saying that basically arent treating anyone over a certain age, even if they are dying and could possibly be saved, they had to make that tough decision)

and, relevant to this thread, cruise lines should have had crisis plans in-place and been able to handle this much better than they did

also, i beg to differ that "you have a greater risk of dying from the flu" - I would love to see how you came up with that calculation.

7 minutes ago, buckeyefrank said:

In Ohio, there are 5 confirmed cases of COVID-19.  The director of Ohio Dept of Health said she estimated 100,000 ohioans already have it.  If 100,000 ohioans have it, there's NO WAY a 3.4% morbidity rate exists.  It would be much closer to the flu rate.

all we have is information thrown around that is guesses and not accurate or later proven to be incorrect

if the US wasnt ignoring testing folks, we'd have better data

apparently there are TWO strains, very little info about whats actually spreading around the USA

just the other day, a paper was published saying this thing is airborne and can float around in the air for three hours on average...

take anything with a grain of salt

2 minutes ago, jennmaybe said:

I know everyone feels very strongly about what's going on and what will happen and won't happen, but I read a very interesting article this morning online about travel cancellations for cruising, hotels, flights, etc.

 

I won't bore you with the entire article, but the point of it was for everyone in our situation to remember who is going to treat us well and who doesn't when it comes to OUR decision to cancel.  After all, we'll all be re-booking a vacation at some point.  The question is, will we re-book with the same airline, hotel, cruise line, etc.?? 🤨

 

 

 

 

BINGO!

8 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That is what I did.

"Cancel anytime up to 48 hours before sailing for a full refund"

Not for a "credit"

but for a "full refund"

and notice how its been changed after several days to say "Cancel up to 48 hours prior to sailing and receive a full cruise credit"

They goofed. They know they did. They even fixed it days later. They owe "full refunds" to all past bookings in which the original wording was effective for. My guess is they are freaking out now they dont have the cash on hand to do that. Hence the huge $$$$$$ loan they took out.

Attached is the current language

Just now, sverigecruiser said:

 

Maybe it's not okay to call a future cruise credit a refund but he said it in the same sentence so what is the problem?

 

If someone only read the beginning of the sentence they may think that the refund was the cash back but if the whole sentence is read it's very clear that it's a future cruise credit, I think.

Look at my screenshot.

52 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Nowhere is a "refund" defined as being cash. That's why we have the phrase "cash refund". If all refunds were cash, that phrase would be redundant... 

you are incorrect.

56 minutes ago, BillDz said:

 

The letter from Harry Sommer, CEO of NCL dated March 7 said:

 

"Anyone choosing to cancel will receive a full refund in the form of a future cruise credit . . . "

 

So he's calling it a refund while actually offering a credit. He's lying.

 

This is the worst possible time for a CEO to be intentionally lying to the public. It's very troubling.

CORONAVIRUS LETTER.pdf 78.73 kB · 1 download

Exactly. I have seen his personal email responses. Its a disgrace. Poor leadership and opening the company up to additional risks. My personal opinion, put it in writing that you want a "full refund" not "credit" before the cruise, don't accept a credit, don't show up, file complaints with your attorney general, FTC, etc, and let see if they dont go bankrupt. You might get your money back or you might lose it. In my case/argument, there is no interest in ever going on a Norwegian cruise in the future so we can care less about a credit.

To add to my above comment, its not only about how they handled it, but because they were/are blatantly putting lives at risk, making people uncomfortable, pressuring them. I read several posts online, saw pictures, etc, that the preboarding was not being taken seriously (at least originally) and they simply put out some Purell. No taking temps, no questioning, etc. Maybe now they are more stringent? Also, if they were checking passports for stamps from prohibited countries, that does little as one can always request not to have their passport stamped (at least in many countries). They were putting up a mere security theater. If someone had coronavirus and they really wanted to board, they probably could (and still can). Many are asymptomatic but can spread it. There are meds one can take to hide temperature and symptoms. Etc. Basically no cruise line has the ability to guarantee passenger's safety at this point. If you go, you ARE taking a risk. Best part is some of their call staff were admitting that and denying cancellations last week. And apparently some were lying and acting negligently. 

48 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

You think every business should have funds on hand to be completely shut down for a period of months?

Every business should have a plan. There is business interruption insurance. During Hurricane Sandy, I know many businesses that had it and didnt lose a penny or were made close to whole, and others that didnt have it, no savings, no plan, and either went out of business immediately or soon thereafter. It is the prudent thing for any business owner to have a plan, understand risks, continuity of business/resilience, how to transfer risks (i.e. insurance), and yes, businesses shouldnt be going month-to-month to survive, just like people, they should have 3-6 months cushion! Why should everyone be bailed out for poor planning? If I was an executive of a cruise company, I would have planned for this exact scenario AND tested my plan.

1 hour ago, hamrag said:

 

Following is a copy and paste directly from the NCL website! 😏

 

100% Cruise Credit

You will receive a 100% future cruise credit for sailings that embark through December 31, 2022.

 

See attached screenshot. Pretty sure this is illegal in some countries/states, maybe not all, but either way it is deceptive and misleading. 

38 minutes ago, BillDz said:

Same here.

I read somewhere on the internet (FWIW) that a bailout is being discussed. If so, I suspect that they're still bargaining on the exact terms before making large operational changes.

But, as Abe Lincoln said, you can't believe everything you read on the internet. 🙂

Screw bailouts. Screw helping big companies. They should have had contingencies for this. Rewaeding their poor planning is disgusting.

21 minutes ago, hamrag said:

I am not defending their intransigence right now, but that is not true....they said it would be a full refund in the form of a FCC.

In some locales, one can't state in big bold words "full refunds" then put an asterisk and smaller font " credit". It's false advertising / deceptive. A credit is NOT a refund.

2 minutes ago, penutbutterjelly said:

This is my worry with the FCC vs Refunds.  Many are aware that NCL took a "large loan" when this crisis started.  Whose to say they won't just file bankruptcy and screw us all?  Nothing.  JMO

I do think they goofed on that and that may allow many to file complaints and law suits and succeed against them. Who is best to file complaints with? State attorney general? Fcc? Ftc? All the above?

6 minutes ago, penutbutterjelly said:

The customer service was instructed to tell passengers "everything is fine" so that they would keep or book a cruise, also that the "warm environment will kill the virus" etc.  A whistle blower customer service showed the emails to the press and now leadership is trying to retaliate against this honest employee.  

As far as closures I'm sure NCL and RCL will push their limits however it may get to the point the State/Gov't may shut them down temporarily.

Companies as large as these should look at how Disney and other large companies are shutting down for the "safety and well being of its employees and customers" instead of just looking at $$.  But hey that is big business for ya.

You can definitely see their desparation... And I got to see Harry's email responses evolve... They appear to be worried about the money and they probably do have a valid concern... Had they been better prepared and able to handle a crisis, it may not have hurt them so much.

I loved the fact that they posted a few days ago that they were offering "full refunds" but that was a lie as it was only credits. I am going to guess they either did break some laws or came awfully close in their deception. That simple act if saying " full refunds" but really only offering credits, speaks volumes about the company: can't be trusted! Money is more important to them than customer well-being.

Honestly their attitude through this has been horrific. High pressure tactics and bad attitude. Harry was replying to emails himself on Saturday, refusing cancellation / refunds directly. They are making customers so uncomfortable that folks are willing to say screw it, lose money, and have no interest in EVER cruising on Norwegian. I know of docs that had mass exposure incidents at their hospitals and NCL could give two shits. It's multidimensional: docs could catch it on ship, get quarantined / stuck on ship, not know they got it and pass it on to patients or miss work and the ability to serve their patients. Now some hospitals are highly discouraging travel, saying if you travel you can't come back and you will not be paid, because they know the risks of passing it to someone else outweigh the need for manpower (but that might change). Proper response from NCL would have been : our thoughts are with you during these times , we don't want you to feel uncomfortable, thank you for your service helping patients, here is a refund, we hope you consider us in the future. What a sour taste NCL has left. Their $9 share price may partly be representative of the negative sentiment as a result of their handling the crisis and the leaked high pressure tactic emails.

Ncl website at 10 pm says announcement forthcoming...