Monkey486

5 hours ago, WanderingBrit said:

That would require legislative action, and lobbyists are keen to prevent that from happening.

 

The contracts I have related to our property in the UK are required to be written according to Plain English rules, and are markedly different than equivalent contracts in the US. But that happened as a result of laws being passed requiring it.

Obfuscation pays handsomely 

7 hours ago, bison2013 said:

 

 

What is useful is how CC and other boards are sources of good information. Most of the information results from 'bad' as well as 'good' personal experiences. So let's be more gracious when someone is sharing their experience or else no one will bother... to the detriment of the value of these boards.

 

I have sympathy for the OP as travel insurance/vouchers/deemed spent language etc is very confusing. I do not believe Viking is unique in this however. Although this future voucher thing seems like a Viking specific gong show.

 

Examples like this validate our personal commitment to decoupling offers- we do not bundle air with accommodation; we pay up for max flexibility to make changes on our terms where possible and never accept 'future use' vouchers as none of us can predict the future.

 

Agreed. No one knows the future. The carriers can cash in on this.

2 minutes ago, ropomo said:

Not to belabor this issue but, as potential advice to others to avoid this situation in the future. Last year we were booked on Viking Mississippi (one of the first scheduled cruises). Unfortunately, we were informed a few weeks before embarkation that the cruise was cancelled because the ship was not yet ready (we already had our luggage tags). We were offered cash or vouchers with bonus. I sent an email to Steve at tripinsurancestore.com and outlined all information that I felt was relavent. About 30 minutes later he called me and educated me on all the ins and outs of the vouchers. He indicated that with the proper documentation, the base value of the vouchers could be insured with a third party. Documentation included proof of original payment, documents from Viking showing cancellation and rolling to voucher and new booking information. The important thing after this is to identify the initial payment date as the deposit date of the cancelled cruise. He then recommended several policies for our review. Steve is very helpful and knowledgeable and frequently has "town forums" here on CC. I suggest anyone making decisions about vouchers and unsure of exactly what they are doing to reach out to an expert.

We didn’t get Steve nor anyone like him on our many phone calls. We documented but that didn’t help. We didn’t seek legal help and that is our bad. It shouldn’t be this way but it is what it is.

1 hour ago, SJD117 said:

As a lawyer since 1981, I’ve written, interpreted, and litigated contracts that are far more complicated than a simple travel insurance policy. But even I have questions from time to time about a policy. So I drill down with the carrier before I sign up. If I don’t fully understand the coverage scope to my liking, then I look elsewhere. 

 

 

 Caveat emptor. I understand

2 minutes ago, JVilleGal said:

Well I have cruised VIKING and am getting ready to cancel a trip “Knowing” I’m going to loose a $5,800 Voucher. But I fully understood the Terms and know since I can’t take this trip or a trip in 2024 that the voucher is lost. It hurts, but on the bright side I have booked an Antarctica trip for 2025 🙂

That sucks.

55 minutes ago, Squawkman said:

Stop digging yourself deeper. Viking policies work both ways. The laws work both ways. There was no obfuscation, no moral theft, no predatory behavior. You took advantage of 125% credit rather than 100% cash back. Sure, I put myself in your place and would be just as angry if I lost that much money. Your experience made me realize even more that this situation may happen to me if I can’t follow through on a voucher-funded cruise booked for next year. On the other side of the coin, we came down with Covid at the beginning of a 2 week VO cruise last year. We were quarantined 12 of the 15 days - and were treated very well for something that was not directly Viking’s fault. And we’ve had a few other experiences where Viking bent over backwards to compensate us.
 

Please chalk it up to experience and move on.

What? Huh? Well aren’t you special? We were offered no 125% incentive. We were told (first answer-see previous post) the voucher was the only option. Thank you for putting yourself in the place of losing $9600 to a major corporation protected by force of law. The issue largely lies with the worthlessness of the voucher, the lack of protection, of the voucher that was presented to me as the only option. (Stupid me did did not hang up right then and there to seek legal representation.) Morally it’s theft; but yeah they got law behind them. So yeah, here’s me with the shovel digging a hole… I know that legally I’m just out. I’ve been wrestling with this for over a year knowing that 99.9999999999999% doesn’t give one rats ass about me losing money. I’m glad Viking took care of you, but they £¥€|<€|> me. I’m relaying my story to say for people to be careful because Viking will be happy to take your money if you don’t protect against them.

1 hour ago, stephenandrew said:

FWIW, I would say that some of the reactions to your posts have been less than sympathetic.  When something bad happens, people are prone to emotional and potentially over reactions.  Pretty normal.  I find it somewhat “unkind” for others to immediately tell you how wrong you are, how right Viking is, how you are at fault for not reading the contract, hiring a TA, etc., etc.  Just because someone may be wrong doesn’t mean it is necessary or useful to pile on the injured party.  I think it sucks you lost $10K.  If that happened to me, I’d be upset too.  Move on….like all things, this feeling will pass.

I have. Life moves on and I have my health. It could be worse. Now I just want to spread the word to read carefully and protect yourselves against what I have suffered. There is differentiation between legal and moral. I was naive and I own that. Thank you for sympathizing.

44 minutes ago, Selion said:

10MAY-200626_RiskFreeGuarantee.pdf 170.32 kB · 1 download

FWIW, the voucher's T&C took up less than half of page.  This was sent to me when the booking was only a hold on the cabin, before I made the deposit.  Now, did I read the entire Passenger Contract?  No.  But I read the Risk Free Guarantee T&C numerous times to know what the vouchers can and cannot do in case we need to change or cancel.  It came in handy when we had to change a Nov 2022 river cruise.

Expensive lesson. Got it.

33 minutes ago, WanderingBrit said:

You made serious accusations of theft, suggesting that the blame entirely belonged to Viking, whereas it simply is not as straightforward as you first claimed - that's what is earning you backlash. Having positioned yourself first as the innocent victim of theft, you now cast yourself as the victim of unearned criticism - a pattern emerges.

 

If you had presented your story as a cautionary tale, a mea culpa for others to benefit from, the reaction would likely have been very different.

It was a cautionary tale. We are conditioned as Americans to accept the law as it is fashioned by our leadership as to ‘that is the way it is.’ I’m saying the way the law is structured is what allows big companies like Viking to make money through obfuscation. So yeah, I failed to protect myself from them. What Viking did was morally theft but legally permissible. I have every right to be pissed about being taken advantage of. People should not treat other this way, period. In all, I have been relieved of better than $9600 of my money because I got Covid having all of the insurance issues go past me to their benefit. This is not upfront and honest. Yeah, I suppose I’m not ‘innocent’ in regards to the law which requires me to be ever on guard against predators who take advantage of the fine print. I lost $9600 dollars. That hurts.

4 minutes ago, longterm said:

Your story is unfortunate, and I've certainly signed agreements without reading all the fine print. Having read this thread, I went back and looked through the trip insurance I just bought for an expensive trip we're taking in 2 years to central Africa.

 

 

This is where a good hands-on travel agent would have made a big difference; the TA we're using for the Africa trip, for example, explained some things to me about the trip insurance I was about to buy, and possibly saved me from making a critical error.

 

Lots of folks on this forum, like me, are huge Viking fans, which is my only excuse for a snarky post; I don't think your situation was the fault of Viking doing something underhanded or improper, but merely following protocol with trip insurance, which is fairly complex and little-understood by most travelers who buy it.

 

As people who enjoy going on Viking cruises, we have a vested interest in their remaining popular and solvent, so I tend to jump to their defense when they're (in my personal opinion) wrongly accused of impropriety. Two lessons might be taken away from all of this: use a reputable and reliable travel agent, and always understand the caveats of trip insurance policies.

 

It was a very expensive lesson. I understand that legally that $9600 is ‘theirs’ because I did adequately protect myself from the less-than- upfront obfuscatory system which allows them to legally take advantage of people 

2 hours ago, bison2013 said:

 

 

What is useful is how CC and other boards are sources of good information. Most of the information results from 'bad' as well as 'good' personal experiences. So let's be more gracious when someone is sharing their experience or else no one will bother... to the detriment of the value of these boards.

 

I have sympathy for the OP as travel insurance/vouchers/deemed spent language etc is very confusing. I do not believe Viking is unique in this however. Although this future voucher thing seems like a Viking specific gong show.

 

Examples like this validate our personal commitment to decoupling offers- we do not bundle air with accommodation; we pay up for max flexibility to make changes on our terms where possible and never accept 'future use' vouchers as none of us can predict the future.

 

Thank you. I’m just now getting to the point to where I talk about this. It hurt me. I come on here and I’m attacked as an idiot who didn’t understand the fine print. I shouldn’t have to—agreements should be simple and forthright. I understand that legally Viking did not steal my money—but morally they did by taking advantage of a very obfuscatory system which protects big companies and gives them access to another stream of revenue. It is predatory and immoral.

12 minutes ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

 

So nothing was "stolen" from you. Welcome to the world of Big Business and corporate law firms.

Legally, yes the money is ‘theirs.’ Morally, it’s theft.

22 minutes ago, Cienfuegos said:

The original poster raises a good point. The contracts presented are complicated, and defy simple understanding. They are written by professionals to protect the interests of the insurance company, not the traveler.

 

I would like to see a simple summary, in plain English, on each contract. Highlighting the most common situations and what is covered or not covered. That would highlight the limits of the coverage.

 

Maybe I've become jaded by all the ambulance chasing and roof climbing lawyers' advertising here in Florida, eager to stick it to the wicked insurance companies, but some of these contracts are damn difficult to understand. Even for somebody like me who has been reading them for almost 50 years.

Thank you! I just finished another lengthy response concerning the obfuscation of ‘the agreement’ in lengthy, confusing fine print. It benefits the big companies, positioning them, as in my case with Viking to legally pocket money without services rendered should they not not adequately protect themselves. Viking knows this, it benefits them as they are protected by the law (and apparently public opinion especially as the right off the bat reaction was to call me a dumbass for not reading the terms and conditions.) A simple summary would be appreciated. Transactions should simple and forthright. As another post made the point, there is no incentive for Viking to correct what they did to me, or admit that it was, let’s say, less than upfront, or they’d have a ton of people to reimburse (or face a lot of lawsuits.)

34 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

 

I think that we all have sympathy for the OP.  Most of us have learned the hard lessons in a similar way.  Time, age, and experience teaches us the lessons of checking the fine print.

 

I think that what most are trying to point out is the original post was pointing the finger at Viking as being the bad guy, when all that happened was laid out in the terms and conditions of sale.  There was no surprise if you read the fine print - so it is called.

 

Viking cannot give in to one no matter how compelling the story is or they would have mounds of law suits going after them even though their terms say different.

 

Many on CC are still confused with vouchers and if travel insurance covers them or not.  We recently (Canada) approached our trip interruption insurance provider because we are using $3k worth of vouchers, and their immediate response was NO, we do not cover vouchers, but when we pressed, they came back saying that it depends on how we got the vouchers.  The insurance companies don't even know and they could not tell us if we received our vouchers in a way or for a reason that they could be covered.  In the end we insured the trip minus the voucher amount understanding and accepting that we would lose the voucher portion if we cancelled.  (We know that these vouchers once applied to a Viking sailing cannot be moved to another sailing.)

 

If I have sounded  less than gracious, please accept my apology, but I read the other posters as showing that Viking is not necessarily the bad guy here and that sometimes we have to accept our personal responsibility when we enter into a contract.  Read everything, ask questions, don't accept the first answer, call back and ask someone different the same question.

 

Was there a better way out of this?  Maybe.  Oh, and having a "beef" with what the travel insurance did or did not cover has nothing to do with Viking.  

 

And for the record, I am NOT standing up in defence of Viking.  I have my own issues with Viking and things we have been told and incorrect information and how they manage things...   the reality is that my issues are covered in Viking policy.  I just disagree with them, but I have to accept them or move to a different cruise line.

First of all, thank you for this kind response and explanation. This is very painful for me. I finally start to open up and start to talk about it I get attacked for not reading all the terms and conditions. (How many times have clicked the ‘I Agree’ button without having read page after page of fine print?) I’ve had to cancel Airbnb reservations for example, it was all dealt with easily—so I know that can be done with a major company. So yeah, I should have not have taken the first answer, should’ve asked more questions, should’ve been more assertive, should’ve been much more on guard to being taken advantage of my lack of diligence in reading the fine print. Where they got me is my taking a worthless voucher in exchange for changes made to a previous trip (due to family circumstances) made many months (before the penalty kicks in) prior—The first ‘answer’ from Viking was that this was my only option. My bad for not hanging up and seeking legal counsel right then and there. From human to human, this posturing I got from Viking is not being forthright and up front. I see it as setting people up to be taken advantage of if they don’t adequately protect themselves. I see this as predatory and immoral. Concerning the insurance, I said yes when asked if I wanted insurance—the voucher being uninsured went unsaid. This sets the company up to legally pocket the money if something should go wrong. So yeah I feel stupid and taken advantage of. Very expensive lesson. They won’t be getting another nickel out of me.

1 hour ago, WanderingBrit said:

If you fail to learn the true lesson offered here, you will simply be doomed to repeat it.

 

The T&C of the voucher you used told you that it had no cash value, and once used would not be replaced. That is not unique to Viking

 

The insurance you purchased only covered your cash outlay, not the voucher that you used, and so therefore your claim was rejected. That may not be unique to Tripmate.

 

Whichever service provider you use in the future, for whatever services, they will have Terms and Conditions as part of their contract with you. No one will have as much at stake in understanding the risks associated with those T&C as you do, and so no one should be expected to care as much as you should.

 

I think you know the truth of this, but don't like to accept your own role in the outcome. It's easier emotionally to portray this as an evil corporation stealing your money, rather than accepting that you either did not read or failed to understand the terms and conditions of the contract you entered into.

So I come here to get beat up for being an idiot for not reading the fine print… When asked if I wanted trip insurance I said yes and paid them what they asked for. My bad for assuming it was for only one ticket. Trip insurance is for more than just the price of the ticket, it’s if something happens on the trip so double my bad for not reading the fine print thus unknowingly leaving myself open to lots of liability. Triple my bad for not hiring a travel agent to protect me from Viking giving me a worthless voucher which I exchanged for better than $9600 when they battled about refunding cash concerning changes in a previous trip made many months prior to that trip. That’s the little loophole that provided a way to pocket ‘their’ money should something go wrong. Quadruple my bad for assuming the company would be straight up with me so I have to protect myself with travel agents and lawyers to explain to me that I was in fact only partially insured when I said ‘yes, I want the insurance for the trip.’ Big companies get to structure laws so they can legally keep ‘their’ money even if no services are actually rendered knowing that as a general rule people usually stick to verbals on the part of all parties assuming they are on the up and up—haven’t we all checked the box ‘I agree to terms and conditions’ without reading page after page of fine print? So yeah caveat emptor—I’m an idiot and because of that that $9600 which at one time was mine became ‘their’ money even when all I got in exchange for the transaction was a lot of pain. Viking was righteous in the eyes of the law. Hurray and congratulations—you got me. 

13 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

If you partially paid for a cruise with an existing voucher, then purchased the Tripmate insurance, as sold by Viking, the reason the voucher value wasn't refunded is because you did NOT pay any premium on that portion of the cost.

 

Had you got other insurance quotes you would have noted the tripmate premium was low, which raises a red flag. When we booked a cruise using a voucher, we didn't look at the low insurance premium thinking, great value, we won one. Prior to paying the deposit, I asked the question, why is the premium so low. It was explained the insurance doesn't cover the vouchers.

 

When you received the voucher, surely you had the option to accept cash at that time. Many of us that researched the vouchers thoroughly, didn't like the risk involved, so opted for cash. By accepting the voucher, the T&C clearly stated they had no cash value and once used would not be replaced.

 

Rather than Viking stealing you money, I'll suggest you made some poor or ill-informed investment decisions, by accepting a voucher. A competent Travel Agent should have been capable of assisting you to prevent your current situation. If you used a Travel Agent, your issues should be with that agent, not the cruise line. If you didn't use a Travel agent, then you are required to complete the research and fully understand the risks.

Very expensive lesson. Nevertheless I’ll never book Viking again

53 minutes ago, CurlerRob said:

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic, but, if you want any useful responses, you'll need to provide some clarity as to what happened. For example - was your booking covered by the Risk Free Guarantee and if so, why was it not available to you? Whose travel insurance did you buy - did it not have Covid coverage? If not, why did you choose it?

 

There is good advice available on these boards, but it's not possible to provide any with what you've written thus far. Take a deep breath and try to provide detail and specifics of how your situation unfolded. 🍺🥌

To be more clear: We made phone call after phone call to Viking. The insurance through Viking is next to worthless. I suppose I could pony up more money for a lawyer to attempt to recover the lost voucher which belonged to my traveling companion. (I paid for that.) I have every right to complain because Viking customer service was anything but helpful. To quote Viking’s written response, ‘the voucher was considered used and lost.’ The insurance claim didn’t pay for that. In all I made a $9600 mistake because I didn’t follow the right procedures nor didI seek legal counsel right away because yes, the Covid guarantee should have been considered. I’ll own that. In all this, nonetheless, Viking should have more responsive and helpful in this dispute because we kept records concerning how much we paid them and how much was refunded. We never got on the boat yet the voucher was considered used. They should have been interested in keeping us as customers, but they weren’t. It isn’t right. 

5 minutes ago, SJD117 said:

Lawyer here, but I’m not taking this case.

Yep. It’s a lost cause

We’ve booked cruises with several other cruise lines and have always been treated with care, like they wanted to retain us as customers—but not Viking. During the time of travel restrictions over Covid, I got Covid days before I was supposed to leave, so I wasn’t going to able to get into the country, let alone the boat. (I was supposed to embark on June 11, 2022 on the Viking Sky from Rome to Athens.) I thought that since I bought travel insurance, I’ll just make a claim, get a refund and try again some other day after Covid blows over. Big mistake. As it all shook out, Viking pocketed $9,663.83 of our money (That’s a lot of money!) We obviously complained but they just told us in their reply basically ‘too bad, how sad, we’re keeping the money.’ As far as I’m concerned, they stole that money, but they’re a big company and who am I to fight them? Caveat Emptor. If you book a trip, don’t get hurt, or sick, or die, because even with insurance you might just get screwed by this immoral company.