BOGOman

11 hours ago, alcpa1 said:

There are many of us with future cruises with Villefrance stops that will appreciate your update.

The last time we were there we were subject to a transportation strike after Hertz messed up our car reservation. Needless to say there are still places to see.

Thanks in advance.

Glad to help. You don't have to avoid the CityXplora bus at Villefranche, only be aware that it doesn't always make those stops. So the prudent choice is to pay the bus driver if it's there when you arrive. Alternatively, you can still use the prepaid bus tickets at that company's Nice stops even if you can't use them to get to Nice because the Villefranche stops were not serviced the day you arrived in port. ~ Bill

12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I hope it all works out for you and that you post how it goes :).  Nothing wrong with staying in Villefranche, but with a full port day you really should try to get yourself to Nice.  Nice is truly nice and there are some decent walks for those who need frequent rests (such as along the Promanade des Anglais) where it is flat and there are benches.   The downside to staying in Villefranche is that you will be limited by hills.  But the good news is that there are some cafes/restaurants within easy (flat) walking distance of the tender pier and there is much to say for eating and drinking in France :).

 

Hank

Thanks Hank. I'm sure we'll enjoy Villefranche if CityXplora doesn't show up. And we'll make mention of that after we get back, with due note of what we expected and didn't get from that company. Good companies that treat people right are usually recognized here, and those that don't are ALWAYS identified here. ~ Bill

35 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Bill, after my last post I did some more online research on that HoHo and did see a map that seemed to show the bus had a stop much closer to the tender port.  But was not convinced that the map is accurate or that a HoHo would even be allowed at that location.  If they do have a pick-up down near sea level, and turn out to be reliable, we could see that HoHo as a very popular alternative for the many cruisers who love HoHo's.  We are looking forward to your report and would love to see some other posts from folks who have either used this bus or at least have seen it near the port.   I am somewhat puzzled as to why we have noticed any posts about that HoHo bus since we are well into the main tourist season and many ships call at Villefranche. It is doubtful that DW and I would ever you use that HoHo…..but the info would be very helpful when we help others.

 

As you are probably aware, just about everything from the tender port is uphill (except along the Quai).  Transportation from that flat area would sure be welcomed by many cruisers who have mobility issues.

 

Hank

I'm on it Hank. It works best for us because we have reduced mobility. We would spend our time in Villefranche, which we understand to be a very pleasant and beautiful place but because we have never been to these two cities we would like to have an opportunity to spend a little time in Nice as well. I hope this CityXplora comes through, but I'm holding my breath .~ Bill

3 hours ago, True Romance said:

Hank,  I would love to hear your suggestions of places you enjoy in the region. We will be in port on Nov. 1st from 7am to 5pm, I know not too much time. Planning on doing our own walking tour of Villefranche and taking the city bus into Nice to explore and walk around.    

 

We visit Monte Carlo the day before, so we will hit up Monaco and Eze on that port day. 

You got the attention of a very helpful, and apparently well traveled, guy, at least in that section of France. I started this thread and a former one related to DIY excursions from two French Riviera ports. With regard to that earlier one, I was trying to determine the feasibility of getting from the Marseilles port to the downtown Hertz rental office for a motor trip to two villages north of Marseilles. Hank gave me some very good responses to the questions I raised, but also some additional information about other French villages in that region to consider. 

On my latest general topic, unrelated to a particular cruise, Hank commented on a discovery I made that there is a HOHO bus operating in the Nice area that goes to the Villefranche port. It's operated by CityXplora. I've been communcating with them to verify that it does, indeed, go all the way to the port and they assured me that it does. The bad news, however, is that they failed to inform me that they reserve the right not to include those Villefranche stops in what they called the "low season." But they didn't define what they meant by the low season or how they determine when to service those ports and when not, nor have they been able to assure me their so-called low season falls OUTSIDE the date when we will need them. That's October 19 when our ship, the Celebrity Reflection gets to Villefranche. Hence, I hesitate to recommend to anyone that they plan on taking the CityXplora if there's a sense that they might be in a low, or lesser visited, time of the year. Wish they would be more specific so that we could count on that helpful service, but so far they have been unwilling to do so.

My interest in the HOHO from Villefranche relates to our need to minimize climbing, and as most know there is a relatively formidable hill to climb from the port to get to the regional bus route. Hank wrote that he believes that the CityXplora HOHO also requires a climb up and down that hill, but I disagree with that. I have studied that route to what they call stop #4 and it seems clear to me that the ground from the port to that stop is relatively level, and the distance is on the order of 200m and takes about 3-4 minutes to cover on foot. But that convenience is all for naught, of course,  if the bus doesn't come that day.

~ Bill    

I found two HOHO lines operating in Nice, and one of them claims that their route extends to Villefranche. That one, Cityexplora, shows on its downloadable map that it has stops in Villefranche at the Citadelle and at Octroi where Buses 81 and 100 normally stop. That could be a great way to travel between the two cities as well as take in the highlights for those arriving at Villefranche by sea, but it's not clear to me that those two stops actually exist. 

Has anyone had any experience with that company, that particular HOHO, and those Villefranche stops? My reason for asking is that they also provide instructions on the same website for taking regional Bus 81 to a Nice stop and at that point joining the HOHO bus. But if they have stops in Villefranche, why would it be necessary, or even desirable, to take the regional bus as part of that route? Things aren't yet adding up.  I sent an Cityexplora in an attempt to clarify this question but so far have not received a response. The response might be slow coming or unclear because the email address is to the company, yet the company operates HOHO buses in many cities and might not get to somebody who knows for sure. ~ Bill

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Interesting.  We have never been up to Roussillion so have no personal experience with that destination.  But we would have no hesitation in going to both those places on a port day...assuming that we got a pretty early start.  Our norm would be to head to our first destination and then appraise the situation before making a decision to go to destination 2 or immediately heading back to Marseille.  I would need to have one foot in the grave before I used a tour company :).  As to getting to the St Charles train station area, your best bet is to be off the ship ASAP and try to get a taxi to do that short haul.  Assuming a taxi will accept the fare you would save a lot of time over waiting for a shuttle bus and then still having to get from the drop point to your rental car office.  Would we do what you are planning?  Yep...but we are somewhat adventurous and have been doing that kind of thing for many decades.   

 

As an aside, if we were going to drive to Lourmarin (we assume you are going for the light show) we would probably opt to spend some time in nearby Les Baux.  Some would also suggest going to St Remy (we have previously rented an apartment in this town) but I always thought that St Remy was overrated as a tourist stop except on market day (Saturday).  We love staying in St Remy but always wondered about the attraction for tour buses who would simply guide their charges through the relatively small shopping area located in town.  There are actually some half decent Roman ruins just outside of St Remy (Glanum) which are skipped by many tours...in favor of taking folks to a few touristy shops.  Go figure.

 

Hank

 

 

All good advice, Hank, and mostly the way I see it too. I heard that it might be difficult to procure a taxi to go that short distance from the port but I haven't seen or heard of the same reluctance by Uber drivers. Maybe the disincentive is the same, but I'll only have a clue by trying. Perhaps using Uber, though, will take longer to get to us and that's contrary to our needs.

As to our destinations, I chose Lourmarin because of their Friday market, but we need to get there early enough not to miss that. I understand that the towns in Provence all have markets on one day of the week but that they tend to stagger them on different days, I guess to encourage local shoppers to travel throughout the region. I chose Roussillon because it's reputed to be famed for its hilltop beauty and charm among so many with similiar appeal. I googled routes to the communes of Les Baux and St Remy, which are off to the west, and found them about the same distance from Marseilles, so it was a bit of a toss up relative to Roussillon. One reason I chose Roussillon is precisely because they're popular destinations for cruise ship tours, and perhaps more crawling with my fellow passengers or those from other ships in port. Another reason for Roussillon, I thought, is that it's in the famed Luberon region with its allegedly scenic areas along uneven terrain through winding roads. If less visited than those popular communes to the west, all the better to get us further along in time. After visiting Roussillon, I routed us west past the similarly praised village of Gordes so that we could look up to admire it as we pass by. Thence to Autoroute A7, which hopefully wouldn't be slowed as much as the 2-lanes by traffic at 4 to 5:30 on a Friday afternoon.

As you say, wisely, it's best to have an intermediate turnaround point if the time is escaping us. We have that in Lourmarin and can save hours from our overall plan by retracing our route back from there. Once we commit to Roussillon, our time enjoying that destination and limited, I think, in how much time it took to get the car in the first place, and how much time it will take us to get back to the ship from the rental agency at the end. We're not fast walkers because of aging legs, so that 2-way trek through the port area will be one of our difficulties. Thanks for your kind attention and advice. ~ Bill

10 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am surprised nobody has jumped in with some rental car info.   There are no rental car agencies convenient to the port so you will need to get yourself into town where just about all the agencies are located near the St Charles train station.  Your ship might have a shuttle bus running to the old port (still a pretty long walk to the train station) or perhaps you will get lucky and snag a taxi.  We have not had problems driving North out of Marseille, but give yourself some extra time on the return since you might encounter some rush hour traffic.   If you post some specific info on your destinations we (and others) might be able to give you additional help.  Also consider the day of the week when making plans because it matters when it comes to the various markets (we love the French markets).

 

I also recommend following my basic rule of driving to your most distant locations early in the day and then working your way back to towards Marseille as the day progresses.  The biggest hassle we encounter when renting cars in France is that you can often find yourself waiting too long at the office (during the rental pick-up process) because of the inherent inefficiency found at many rental car offices.  The driver should also have their Passport or at least a copy of their main Passport page...which might be requested by the agency at the time of rental.

 

Hank

Hi Hank ~ All good and useful advice, but from the dearth of responses it looks like it's not a typical way to visit those hill towns from Marseilles. My purpose in creating this thread was to figure out the most efficient ways to get to the car agencies at the St Charles rail station. There are several unknowns or unpredictables along that route. Your information that we could get bogged down at the rental office is an additional concern as is the prospect of much traffic coming back to Marseilles.  

To respond to your questions, we're heading out on a Friday when we have, at most, 10 hours to make it to Lourmarin, thence to Roussillion, and then back to the ship  in time to get on board. Maybe too ambitious for that time, those uncertainties, that questionable efficiency, that possible traffic, but that inflexible time of departure. But otherwise, we're at the mercy of mundane and sometimes exploitative tour company operators, and that's not appealing either. 

Anyone attempt to rent a car in Marseille to visit pretty hill towns that are off the beaten path? How much time need we allow to walk from the ship to where taxis stand, and how long until we secure a ride? What about scheduling Uber there? Does anyone have experience driving from the downtown area north, like how long it takes just to clear the city and get to the rural areas? Experience with traffic delays on a Friday, leaving downtown around 10 am and returning around 5:30 pm? Anyone attempt a DIY excursion like this to avoid the clutches of the ship and local tour companies, or might this be too harried to be practical? 

12 minutes ago, roxwella said:

Celebrity doesn't seem to actually spell this out. My understanding/experience is that if you get the premium package and order a drink above the $15 premium drink cost limit, they charge you the difference between $15 and the actual cost. I have been told that when you have the other packages and a drink goes above the per drink price limit, you pay the full drink price. But call Celebrity if you NEED to know.

Thanks. I'm beginning to sense that nobody really knows [and few care] what they're paying for their drinks. For those who do, there are the drink packages that take care of all that. And for whatever reason, few scrutinize their daily or final billing statements. Finally, from my experience it's difficult to reach the right person at Celebrity (or any cruise line) who can definitively answer questions like this, and when you do contact somebody who ventures an answer, it's insufficient at best.  

20 minutes ago, jelayne said:

i do believe that I read that if you order something that is not covered by your package, say a more expensive glass of wine,  you pay the full cost of the drink  20%.  But I am not positive about that.

Seems odd that this point can't be answered clearly and authoritatively, say by somebody who did just this on board and either paid full price or did not. Circumstances may vary, so maybe that's why the answers fall on both sides. For instance, maybe some ships require full payment while others do not. Maybe full payment is required in European areas but not in the Caribbean. Maybe wines and beers get an upcharge based on the cost relative to the maximum allowed in your package, but that doesn't work for many mixed drinks, cocktails and cordials for which there is no standard of comparison. Can anyone straighten this out? 

14 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

Celebrity EDGE in March and the Reflection in April. On both ships. I ordered the premium gin and was charge a $1.00. Several during the course of the cruises.

Makes a big difference which package you had on those cruises and which gin you got. If you had the Classic package, they had about 6 upper-shelf gins from the Premium package to consider, each with a unique flavor profile. If, however, you had the Premium package and the ship stocks something more expensive yet, I'd be curious to know what that is. And I'm pleased to know that it cost you only $1 more, but relative to what? 

10 minutes ago, jelayne said:

We have always had a beverage package as a perk, some times the Classic sometimes the Premium.  If we had the Classic and just paid the upcharge on the drinks in our typical day it would be $4 on the Martini, $4x 2 =$8 for 2 glasses wine and $2 for the nightcap so; total of $ 14 + 20% = $16.80.  The cost  to upgrade is $10 +20%  $12.00.  Upgrading is tge better option

 

Fyi- the limit on the Premium package is $15.  If purchasing the Classic package the price was increased a while ag from $55 to $59 + 20.

Yes, the more one drinks the better bargain the packages become. That's not just because of the ship's charges but also because generally a perk includes the service fee for all drinks but drinks that go beyond the package incur a 20% service fee. My concern on this topic was to try to understand the somewhat elusive rules related to the possibility of upcharges for different classes of drinks so as to determine which package, if any of them, suit our needs. 

3 hours ago, jelayne said:

We have figured it out and for us the Premium. Package saves us a few $.  

Average day includes Juice & latte at breakfast $9; 2 bottles water for gym or port $6, lunch soda $4 or wine $10, post pool or excursion frozen drink $8,  pre dinner martini $13, dinner 2 glasses of wine $26,  nightcap $11.  So if we are on the ship during the day our bill would be roughly $73 +gratuties.  Sea day $77 -83.  Of course if we run into friends at the Sunset Bar or Martini Bar there could be extra drink or 2 added.

We could get some of this covered by attending the Elite breakfast and  Cocktail Hour but the times don’t usually work for us. For those that do attend these events the beverage package probably isn’t a good deal.

On the other hand, if you had the Classic Package and paid the small upcharges over $9 for each of those higher priced drinks, your cost would have been $55/day + $14-15 upcharges = $69-70.

I note that you don't incur any upcharges for your selections. However, if you bought the Classic Package and paid the upcharges to exactly the same drinks, your beverage costs would turn out about the same. And in that way, if you skipped any of those drinks your beverage cost would go down.

This analysis assumes that upcharges are knowable. That's probably true for wines, where the upcharge is simply the price for your selection minus the maxium for your package ($9 or $13 for classic and premium respectively). But what about spirit substitutions and liqueurs (for example peppermint schnapps, which isn't in either package)? How would they charge if you want a premium package spirit in your martini if you have a Classic Package -- upcharge some difference amount or full charge for a whole new drink? Presumably any liqueur drink not in the package incurs a full drink charge. 

Also, accepting upcharges means also accepting service fees on those differences, so I'm not including that additional cost in my comparative analysis above. 

10 minutes ago, Mynki said:

I'll start with a positive message and state that I think Celebrity often offers s good product. I wouldn't sail on the line if I thought otherwise! However if I had to be critical of the points I'd say :- [much etc.]

Without belaboring the rest of your posting, which is quite illuminating and helpful, I must say that I'm less than enthused about these cruise ship drink packages. The idea that we can forget about the price because we paid up front doesn't seem to hold true unless you're willing to accept a lot of shortcomings and limitations -- as well as substantial extra cost beyond the package price that might be best for those who just don't think or care about the price at all. Or big drinkers without high drink standards. 

For those traveling recently, and in particular on the Reflection in Europe with the Classic Drink Package, how did that package work out for you? Reason for asking is that the drink package is a relatively pricey option that, even when included in the purchase price and service charges are included, it may be less enticing if you could save a large fraction of that by rebooking later. Maybe at some point it's worth more to save on the booking than on the drinks, and maybe that savings on drinks doesn't even materialize and is bad choice anyhow.  

For example, how often were you disappointed with the wine selections in the MDR, bars or lounges and had to pay more to get enough value and selection?. Were you ever charged the full amount for a drink because nothing like it was carried in the package (for example a liqueur or mixed drink with higher grade spirits)? Other factors, such as waiter, sommolier or bartender competence?

25 minutes ago, TFLG said:

 

The bartenders will use the cheap stuff regardless of package unless you specifically request a top shelf liquor.  If you hand them your card and say nothing you will get the well liquor even if you have a premium package.

Hmmm. Maybe you're talking about mixed drinks that aren't part of your drink package but could be made with a spirit that IS included in your drink package. If your observation is true in that case, it counters my assumption that the servers are instructed to ask if the passenger wants the spirit used in the mixed drink that comes with the package. Otherwise, the burden is on you and I to make sure we get the covered spirits, at least the first time you patronize a specific server. Somebody above said that the servers are good, they do want you to get what you paid for, and when they get to know you they will do so without asking again. 

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 Sounds like for you, your best solution is to make visiting a bar a top priority so you can ask the bartenders if specific mixed drinks are included in your package or not. 

Got it. Lots of people having been helpful, and consistent, on this issue. Seems that it's not a problem because the waiters tend to take care of their customers with regard to the cost of drinks. But I suppose that some waiters know less than others, and sometimes a mistake is made by the waiter or bartender, so it's important to check your bill daily on the TV in your stateroom. If you see an unusual charge, say for a drink or for a portion of a drink because you didn't accept the one included in your drink package, then you can throw yourself on the mercy of the front desk. I get the idea from the comments of others that the cruise line doesn't want you to be unhappy when you lay out big bucks for those drink packages, so they work to encourage interaction between waiter and passenger and to train everyone serving drinks to make sure the passenger doesn't get an unpleasant surprise. The important thing is to make sure that your server notes your drink package, which is supposed to be indicated on your sea pass, and ask if your choice is covered or what the upcharge would be if you prefer a non-included spirit. All new to me as I've never had a drink package on board before. 

2 hours ago, Gordoncruickshank said:

When you order a drink make sure you ask for the brand of spirit you want otherwise you will get the cheapest alcohol from the well rather than what you expect to get.

 

After going to the "well" I came up with a boatload of experience and great suggestions from some masters of the fine art of navigating drinking choices. Thank you one and all for this "spirited" discussion on how to get properly and pleasantly enebriated, cruise ship style, in the manner of one's choice. If I'm ever in doubt, it's either because I failed to check with the waiter, the sommelier, the stateroom TV or with my wife, or else because I stopped paying attention. Cheers!

1 hour ago, arsenalboy said:

Your sea pass card will show which drink package you have and the waiter/bartender will only serve you drinks in your package. They will tell you if not included and you will sign a chit for the extra. No confusion.

 

So in all cases, the bartender is made aware by the sea pass when the order comes from a passenger and is responsible for sticking to the drink package. Unless the waiter and I agree to something different, I shouldn't get a chit to sign. If I do, that amount should represent the upcharge over the allowance under the drink package. That goes for all drinks and locations, including wines, mixed drinks and nonalcoholic beverages. Have I got that straight? 

Couldn't be better. Many thanks for both replies. 

When you have one of the drink packages, how do you know for sure that the drink you're ordering is included? For wines ordered anywhere on the ship it's impossible to know from the name alone if it's an included brand for one or more of the drink packages. For mixed drinks it's more complicated but I suppose some discuss those with the waiter before ordering. That is, if the waiter knows accurately which specialty drinks and which brands of alcohol are included in each drink package. If there is no systematic way to do that and if the waiters either don't know or give inaccurate info, then would you be charged the full price for a mixed drink made with a liquor not in your drink package or charged the difference?  

I think this thread has pretty much run its course, and thank everyone for participating. It's clear I think that many love cruising for the most obvious reasons: the expanse and mystery of the ocean, the fascinations with ports, the opportunities to make new and sometimes lifelong friends who love many of the same things. Those things may never change, or at least we all hope so.

What the topic was intended to do was to explore, with your opinions, whether cruising is a good value for the many attractions that it represents. And those who took up this issue responded primarily by comparing cruising to other forms of vacationing. My take on the comments in that regard is that road travels should not be discounted as valid and enjoyable ways to get away, but there's a strong notion that they're different, not necessarily better or worse.

A point that I hoped to get at, and don't think it got as much attention, is whether cruising is as good a value "today" as it once was. I don't think anyone was concerned that cruising has turned strongly into a mass marketed experience. Where once people wore formal clothes and catered to a relatively mature audience, now the target cruisers are families and millenials. Where once people sought an educational experience along with high-class entertainment, now the emphasis seems to be on the number and variety of activities younger people can enjoy on board. And I think it can be said without contradiction that everything that can be marketed, sold, and promoted for payment on board is a growing part of the cruising experience. It's increasingly difficult to get away from the sense that everything you really want to do onboard now carries a hefty price tag. Except, perhaps, for the premium cruise lines, where they tend to charge more up front so that you don't have to pay every time you sit, walk or look for something to do on board.

Thanks to the comments of some, I think I now have options that I hadn't considered before. Things like taking ferries as part of the cruising mix, considering upscale cruise lines to avoid the over-hyping and over-marketing on board, and even re-considering the freedoms that come from road trips. And one thing that became clear to me as well: I'll never be taking my vacations in one of those road-hogging traveling houses that can't begin to compete with traveling on the high seas in terms of adventure, entertainment, good food, interesting places to visit, and opportunities to meet new and lifelong friends. ~ Bill

Thanks everyone for participating. I think this thread has run its course. Many explained why they loved, and continue to love, cruising for its own sake. Also many explained why they think it's a good value in relation to other ways to vacation. However, I'm not sure that we came up with much information about how cruising has changed over the times, for better or worse. So the bottom line I'm seeing is that cruising is good, it will endure for the foreseeable future, and that long-standing cruisers aren't sufficiently put off by changes in cruising that they've sought and found substitutes. ~ Bill

If you are asking me to replace a cruise, then shouldn't I get to stay in a hotel and eat in a restaurant that are equivalent to my ship? I can't think of any hotel I have stayed in that were equal to a cruise ship that cost me less than $100 a night in years. Especially while driving.

 

I know that would be true here in Seattle. If you want to stay near the city center (like you would if you were moored in a city on a cruise ship) then you would pay at least $175 for a hotel that I would even consider sleeping in and the parking for the car you would drive there in would be a minimum of $35 if not more. I believe this would be true in San Francisco, San Diego, Vancouver BC and pretty much any other city on a coast in the US. And how about my New England cruise next year? Boston's not cheap to stay in or to park in. Same with Québec. I would probably save money on gas because I would want to spend (as I do on a cruise) a lot of time walking a city.

 

And I want to eat in someplace equivalent to the MDR at the minimum. Good luck finding that kind of service and food for under $100 for two just for dinner. Especially with the choices.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a good road trip as much as the next guy, but I truly believe I spend more money than I do on a cruise.

I wrote about "motel"costs, not "hotel" costs. And I wrote about a "driving" trip, not a trip that consists primarily of living it up in a big city. I'm not quibbling about luxurious living on the ship either (I've done it many times too), only that there is probably no place on earth where such luxury is delivered with such crass marketing. And where convenience (gambling, photos, laundry, drinks+18%) at such high cost. http://www.cruzely.com/bad-bet-how-cruise-ship-casinos-offer-poor-odds-payouts/

100 per day with 2 per room 200.00 and 100.00 for food day, and That's on the low side That's more than any of my 6 cruises. Land vacations are always more. Even having my 28 foot camper, ended up paying over 100.00 a night and having to cook and lots of work. Sold my camper and now enjoy cruising.

 

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This posting hasa gross misrepresentation of the costs of a vacation by car. Unless you're always aiming at big, expensive hotels, good planners can easily hold motel costs to an average of $100 per night, and usually that includes a breakfast. And allowing $50 per day per person for lunch and dinner along the open highway seems very adequate to me when stopping in small towns or along the highway. Let's say the couple drives an average of 500 miles per day in a car that gets 25 mpg, the cost of gas would be no more than $50 per day. Thus a total of $250 to cover the living and travel expenses for two people, or $125 apiece. Getting the daily cost that low for a cruise means living near the cruise port and probably taking Caribbean vacations only. But most cruisers have to travel extensively to get to and from their port of departure and long for other options than Caribbean islands.

.

But I agree with you that cruising is much preferable to going anywhere in a 28-foot camper. If, by your own account, a typical trip in one of those gas guzzlers costs you $100 per night, then adding in the cost of gas which would be at least 4x the cost for a car for the same distance or around $200 for a 500 mile per day road trip. And when figuring the cost for insurance, storage, and depreciation for a camper costing at least $100 grand new, I bet the total cost with overhead factored in is as much or more than the cost of cruising anywhere in the world on anything except the highest luxury cruise ships. And with vastly more difficulty and stress. I think the only reason people stay with those things is because they're so heavily invested with them that they're stuck and can't justify any other kind of vacation while they own them. Therefore, going back to the same one or two campgrounds year after year without ever leaving the country or seeing much new. And never having the luxuries of having others else get you around, make your beds, feed you gourmet food, entertain you, etc.