Dunelm

Had to see one of my doctors last week.  Like me, she thinks people should be made aware that many who "recover" from the virus are left with life-long health issues.  The virus attacks organs--lungs, kidneys, heart, and so on.  It causes strokes in some, and these poor folk include the young as well as the elderly, and those in between.  Covid-19 is a monster virus and should never be taken lightly.  Recovery rates are not telling the whole story.  By the way, I know five people who have recovered from the virus--two in another country, and three in different states.  Two of them (one in his forties another in his fifties) have been left with permanent lung damage.  Another female still has respiratory problems.  She is in her forties.  Please listen to the scientists and doctors.  Stay safe!  As the head of the CDP would say, this is not being an alarmist; it is being realistic.

I wish media would talk more about how many of the patients who "recover" from the virus are left with life-long health problems.   Where I live there is a surge of cases and deaths because action was late and re-opening was too early.  It seems that profit always wins over people.  The economy cannot recover unless we are able to manage efficiently and nationally this monster virus.  The countries who are dealing best with the crisis, had a national strategy and residents who cared about each other.  I am not surprised that the USA is a banned country.  It is chaotic at present with very mixed messages and misinformation.

On 6/24/2020 at 5:10 AM, JVNYC said:

I don’t blame them for banning the US. We look like a bunch of idiots. Well in reality we are for what we have done with this virus. 

I so agree.  When I think of all the sacrifices that were made in just and unjust wars in the 20th Century, the whining about mask wearing is so trivial.  What has happened to people when they cannot make the simple "sacrifice" of wearing a mask for the good of all?  

I am tired of hearing people complain about losing their freedom by wearing a mask.  Please, with any freedom comes responsibility.  Be responsible, we are each others keeper.

On 5/13/2020 at 8:56 AM, Hawaiidan said:

First of all all you have to do is listen to the press release weekly by " the experts"  who keep changing their opinions. 

  In Britain they fired their expert because of his inaccurate and over the top forcasts.   Washington state experts  keep revising their opinions...  This virus has been around for a long time and just keeps morphing   This current  morph  will change too.

While there is a danger it is mainly in high population, medical susceptible/ vulnerable people.  50-80% are in nursing homes..  The numbers keep going down in new cases  but the media who loves bad news loves to paint a different picture.   

   My point is,  that the threat is real  but people are being hyped  politicians and the press.   It is not going to last forever that is just logic  as nothing does.    Masks  will  slowly go away I suspect when the panic subsides

Have many friends in Britain, one of whom is a surgeon.  The number of deaths there are the highest in Europe.  The state in which I live is seeing a surge in cases and deaths almost one month after the governor started to open up non-essential businesses.   Yes !  There is confusion, therefore all the more reason to be cautious.

5 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

I don't trust any one source...I look and listen to many and make my own decisions rather than having someone who is making gross generalizations for regions and persons.....  The assumption   that  is made is people are too stupid to  determine their risk and what precautions and where they should be taken.... and the media promotes this...

I am glad that you use several sources when making a decision.  I do not think people are stupid--some obviously--however, I do think there is a part of our population, including some leaders, who think they know better than our scientists and doctors.  Also, I am thankful for the many journalists and people on the front line who are putting their lives at risk to help save us from ourselves.

I am concerned that "Nationalism" is rearing its ugly head.  When it has done so before, historically the results were horrific--think Hitler and WWII.   Whether we like it or not, planet earth, through travel and the internet, has shrunk.  We rely on the cooperation of other countries, particularly those who have been our allies in the past.  No country (human) is an island.

On 5/13/2020 at 8:56 AM, Hawaiidan said:

First of all all you have to do is listen to the press release weekly by " the experts"  who keep changing their opinions. 

  In Britain they fired their expert because of his inaccurate and over the top forcasts.   Washington state experts  keep revising their opinions...  This virus has been around for a long time and just keeps morphing   This current  morph  will change too.

While there is a danger it is mainly in high population, medical susceptible/ vulnerable people.  50-80% are in nursing homes..  The numbers keep going down in new cases  but the media who loves bad news loves to paint a different picture.   

   My point is,  that the threat is real  but people are being hyped  politicians and the press.   It is not going to last forever that is just logic  as nothing does.    Masks  will  slowly go away I suspect when the panic subsides

Have many friends in Britain, one of whom is a surgeon.  The number of deaths there are the highest in Europe.  The state in which I live is seeing a surge in cases and deaths almost one month after the governor started to open up non-essential businesses.   Yes !  There is confusion, therefore all the more reason to be cautious.

On 3/31/2020 at 2:04 PM, JeffElizabeth said:

As an American,  I can't believe Americans are being so heartless.  Let them come home. 

I agree!  Also, Florida as a state has not been pro-active in dealing with this pandemic.  I feel sorry for its residents, but knowing the state was very late to recognize a pandemic makes me think that its leadership should show some mercy.  After all, when any state lags behind clear warnings, they actually put us all in danger.  Just think of all the spring breakers on their beaches who carried the virus home with them.  Man-Up Florida's Governor, and show you care about people more than profit.

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 3:57 PM, TAD2005 said:

What a depressing bunch of posts.   The regular, seasonal flu kills tens of thousands every year and hardly generates a note on page 20 of the newspapers.    People bemoaning that China had 28 new cases in one day.  OMG !!!!   But remember, China has well over a BILLION people.   I don't know how many zeros after the decimal point we would need to show that percentage.   I'm for a wait and see approach.   

I just hope that on March 27, you have "eyes that perceive."  I think your watching and waiting should be over by now,

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Worldometer, which I've been following for over a month now and is a highly regarded reference, shows 39 new cases for China reported yesterday. The previous day there were 50-something if I remember correctly.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Not sure where ABC news is getting their info...

I wonder about ABC, too.   They just came out with another poll, not related to the virus, and had polled only 547 people.  I happen to think that such polling is rubbish.

2 hours ago, Donald said:

Let's have a look at these "out of the box" ideas, while bearing in mind that the mass market lines do not make a penny of profit by selling cruises. They only make profit from selling things to people who go on cruises.

 

1.  How about single supplements of 125% on a wide variety of cruises instead of 200%?  Lots of singles would probably jump at the opportunity.

Single cruisers on average spend less money per person, per day, than other cruisers. Why would a cruise line lower fares (thereby lowering revenues) to get more people onboard who spend less money (lowering profits)?

2.  How about running alaska cruises from San Diego or San Pedro to alaska and back via ensenada to get around PSA act.  If alaska ports and some west coast ports remain open it could combine alaska with a coastal voyage into two week itineraries...since canada ports are blocked til july 1 this could hopefully provide some much needed $$ to alaska, west coast and cruise ships who otherwise sit idle in may and June or perhaps beyond....example san diego to san pedro to portland to alaska 7 days  to san francisco to ensenada to san diego type itinerary

You don't work in the cruise industry, so are probably unaware that cruisers who sail out of Southern California spend fewer dollars onboard, per person, per day, than just about any other demographic. Why would a cruise line encourage lower spending guests in an attempt to recover from massive financial losses? San Diego-San Pedro-Portland-Juneau would take 6 days of high speed (high fuel cost) cruising with mostly sea days, short port stops, and one day in Alaska. Then 7 more days of expensive high speed cruising at sea, with a very short (and expensive) port call at San Francisco, to get down to Ensenada and back to San Diego in 14 days. This makes no sense.

3.  Offer extra special senior discounts.  Retired seniors have the time and most the money to go on longer cruises.

Ask the revenue people at Holland America why they have the lowest profit margins in the Carnival Group. Their demographic is heavy with retirees on fixed incomes who spend less per day than younger passengers. They may have plenty of money. They just prefer not to spend it onboard.

4.  Try and schedule as many cruises as possible that pax can drive to and from ports instead of flying.  Consider offering free/discounted parking at ports or even free bus transfers from select cities.

Cruise Line revenue people will tell you that passengers who drive to the cruise port are trying to save money on air fares. Those same people also try to save money onboard, by spending less per day than the passengers who fly. Generally speaking, the most profitable cruises (mass market or otherwise) are those requiring long flights.

5.  Consider offering at least one basic shore excursion per port that is not marked up 300%.  A simple 3 hour half day bus tour does NOT have to cost $100.

Most cruisers do not realise that Shore Tours are 1) the highest revenue producer for mass market lines, and 2) the highest cost % for mass market lines. The massive liability insurance policies that cruise lines are forced to pay for to avoid all the lawsuits from North Americans, effectively wipes out most of the profits from Shore Tours. Offering discounted Shore Tours will not help cruise line financials.

6.  Increase special offers for interline, travel agent rates, military rates etc.  These highly discounted rates are normally more last minute filler business and the rates are not published to the general public.

Remember that the mass market lines only make profit from selling things to people onboard. Generally when you offer incredibly discounted fares, you attract people who normally could not or would not afford to take a cruise. These people are very happy to get a very cheap cruise - and even happier not to spend any money onboard.

I am sure there are many many more possible promos...not all will work but please do something other than drink packages and free internet.....the key is to get people cruising again and to fill every cabin possible.

The key is to get the right people cruising again. Adopting the Walmart market business model will get you plenty of "Walmartians". It's bad enough to have to spend a few hours in a Walmart with those freaks; who wants to spend a week with them, 24/7 ? It may seem counter-intuitive, but filling every cabin possible is not the way to make money in the cruise industry.

Oh, dear!  I know people who are wealthy and shop at Walmart.  In fact, I would guess that people in Walmart are very diverse.  I just do not like to read such stereotyping.  Did you write about supposedly "right people" and "freaks" because you simply wanted to provoke others?

What if some of the small, isolated communities in Alaska would not welcome masses of cruisers?   Their health may mean more to them that their economy.

If communication can fail, it will!   When I wrote that folk from the UK and Ireland were "exempt,"  I meant they were not yet a part of the travel ban that has been put on citizens of at least 26 other countries.  I know that American citizens can still try to get back here from other countries.  I just do not understand why UK and Irish citizens can still travel here when the corona virus is spreading in their countries.  Forget the Schengen Zone.  I am referring to the spread of the virus that can happen from any country affected, and that includes the UK and Ireland.  I am still baffled when so many Brits and Irish travel to other countries so much, including those in the Schengen zone.  Remember it can take almost two weeks for the virus to show up in an individual.  Still baffled.

17 hours ago, colbe said:

UK is not "exempt". They are not in the SCHENGEN Area, so the ban does not apply to them. Ireland and several other European countries are not either.

hlitner was correct in mentioning the UK exemption.  It does not make a lot of sense.  I know many Brits, and I watch BBC news.  Despite preparing well before the United States for this new virus (testing kits, urging people with mild symptoms to stay away from family practitioners and hospitals, and telling others to phone a hotline to be given instructions) there has been an upsurge of new cases.  Brits love to travel, and are continuing to take cruises and flights seeking the sun.  Hence, there are apparently more cases of the virus in the UK than in some of the banned countries.  The fact that the UK is not included in the ban has a slight "smell" to me. 

On ‎2‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 6:51 PM, FlaMariner said:

I agree...I'm not seeing price drops on our two cruises booked (April to Montreal and August in Alaska). 

 

I'm also not seeing any "deals" on much of anything with HAL as I would expect.  With the fake news, it sounds like we are all running scared and hiding in our basements....but perhaps not.

 

We were thinking this is a great time to get out there....but surprised that the prices seem to be holding.......

I hesitate to call the news "fake" when journalists around the world are putting their lives on the line.  We would be in a mess if it were not for such people.  I, for one, am thankful for journalists who do their research and do not spin the facts.  Reading books about Hitler, I realize that he, among many other acts, got rid of those kind of journalists.  Would that we could learn from history.

2 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said:

The law of supply and demand would have to kick in at some point.

One would think so, but perhaps companies would decrease their workforce.  Too often, the motto is "profit over people."

When cruise lines and airlines and travel agents are losing money, do you really think there will be discounts?  I don't know.  It must be a dilemma or nightmare for any industry, not forgetting the people who end up with the virus.

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I was not implying that packets of a sweetener are not available.  They are, but on the Eurodam, the guest had to look for them in the beverage area and request them if ordering Room Service.  On the Volendam, the packets were on the tables in the Lido Restaurant and on the Room  Service trays.

 

If removing the packets is a way of CCL trying to show the Federal Court that it is working to meet its Environmental Compliance Plan, then, why the inconsistency of what one ship is doing as compared to another? 

 How fortunate for you that this is an issue!  Wishing you sweet sailing.

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 3:12 PM, NordicPrince said:

The OP posted about the discharge of grey water from a Carnival ship. That is related to a cruise ship. The situation in Fort Lauderdale is a municipal problem that has nothing to do with cruise ships discharging grey water.  One has nothing to do with the other.

Actually, I think pollution from any source anywhere is a part of a whole.  Our planet increasingly is polluted and, to some extent, we are all to blame.  There are little adjustments, though, to our lifestyle that could help--avoid plastic, recycle, recycle, recycle, and so on.  A few weeks ago, a warning was sent out from a country's chemical society (never happened before) that minerals used for I-Phones, Computers, and the like will not be available in a hundred years' time.  If we care about future generations we should heed such warnings by recycling, and refusing to buy the latest models.

I always thought that Holland America was a line that took environmental protection seriously.  But, let's face it, if we really cared about protecting our planet, we would not fly planes, take cruises, or drive certain vehicles.

With dishonesty apparently running rampant,  it is likely that some passengers will not tell the truth about their health or lack of, and also, let's not forget that taking Tylenol reduces temperature but not the underlying illness.

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 5:46 PM, tcc8v said:

Thank you for your interesting comments.

 

The point is that the Diamond Princess incident shows that if an infected person manages to board the ship, the cruise company cannot protect its passengers.  Infected individuals have a period of time without symptoms, and, as one post pointed out, might lie on their health questionnaires.  It is probably impossible to reduce to an acceptable level the risk of boarding an infected individual.  Infected individuals do get through immigration screening but their effect can be controlled on land (and hence the modest national counts of total infections outside of China).  The Diamond Princess shows that an infected on board ship is very serious.

 

National governments all over Asia apparently agree because they are closing their ports to international cruise ships.  At this time, the Westerdam is floating around the East China Sea, unable to find a port willing to accept her.

 

At this point, what I really think CCL (and probably other cruise companies) should do is to admit its inability to protect passengers and cancel its spring Asian cruises (refunds would result).  To do otherwise is IMHO arrogant.  Humble Pie would probably help.

 

Cruise critic has a very interesting article that points out that standard cruise insurance policies do not cover epidemics.  HAL does offer 'cancel any reason' policies, but these have more limited health coverage.

 

Typhoid Mary is thought to have infected only 51 people (Wikipedia).
 

Arrogance seems to be a national characteristic these days.  In fact, I detect a lot of arrogance in the above post.  I am very sorry for all those people affected by this new virus.  The lessons to be learned are that bad weather, viruses, and so on happen, and that any traveler these days should have adequate cancellation and health insurance. Other characteristics of today are the blame game and greed.

21 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Do you have any idea what is the fatality rate from he common flu?

 

The fatality rate from the Wuhan coronavirus appears to be 2-3%. Calculate the death toll in the States alone if the disease is not stopped in its tracks. Fortunately, it's not the MERS disease with a fatality rate of 37%.

 

I have s short summary here in Post 95...

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2732463-cruises-starting-in-hong-kong-still-offered/?tab=comments#comment-59349717

 

I hope that none of us have to undergo the Diamond Princess experience. 

I can only quote a math teacher who said that over 10,000 people die every year from the flu' in the USA, and his statement was backed up by another man who is a statistician.  Also, we should consider that the population of China is far larger than ours, and they live much closer to each other.

It is a matter of different strokes for different folk.  We have sailed in suites on Celebrity, Princess, and Holland America.  We prefer Holland America.  My husband drinks the occasional glass of wine, so free drinks do not excite us; we found the last Celebrity experience to be very gimmicky, and that was not appealing to us; Holland America's suites seem to be more spacious and, as mentioned before, their itineraries appeal to us.  But, it would be very boring if we all enjoyed the same things.  It is good to have choices among the different lines.