Wifflebat

6th Salute to Veterans Cruise Norwegian Dawn - 23-30 October 2015 sailing out of Boston. ~21 military couples (all branches) aboard. May not be too late to join us.

The 7th Salute to Veterans is setup for January 2017.

twice . . . . . from the Air Force in 1981 and from a high stress job with a utility company in 2001 at the ripe old age of 58. Figured that retiring early would add many years to my life - so far it's worked out very well!

I've not missed working at all.

Don't wait until it's too late to enjoy retirement - that is if you can afford to do so.

Headed for the airport in THREE hours!:D

Anyone going on the Princess 'Cruising for a Cause - U.S. Veterans'? How about you "eyeamacruiser" ?

 

Check-in on the roll call if so. :):)

 

http://www.princess.com/cruisingforacause/veteranscruise.html#.Ufa5O6zheOE

There are several cabins being discounted as of today for this cruise if anyone is interested!! Price drops of 9.5% to 25%!

Morning all,

 

I have cruised before, however, I have not been for some years and have since gained a commission in the British Armed Forces. I have been told that many members of the US forces wear mess dress (or equivalent) which, in the UK, is effectively the military equivalent of black tie, on formal nights.

 

I am going on a cruise from the US soon and wondered if it would be the done thing for a British Officer to wear mess dress on formal nights, or is it just seen as ostentatious? I am very proud to have earned the right to wear it, however, would it be seen as inappropriate, in particular by the US citizens who will no doubt be in the majority on board!?

 

Views much appreciated,

 

HBK.

Should you be aboard either of our two cruises (see below) I'd be pleased to meet you and compare mess dress!

Have a great time while visiting us. :)

Hello

Thanks for all of the info!

We will be cruising to Hawaii in 2015 for two occasions. 1st being my 50th and the second is our 30th anniversary. What we wanted to do is renew our vows at sunset on the beach. Do you have any suggestions for this?

I have not picked a cruise line or specific cruise so I don't have any info on the nights we will be there. But any info would be great. I have not contacted any TA yet, I normally book our cruises myself.

Thanks for your help.

We are renewing our vowels (50th) on a Maui beach this Oct - ceremony will be done by Pastor Laki Kaahumanu, the great-great grandson of Queen Ka'ahumanu wife of King Kamehameha. He's the Head Pastor of Kaanapali Beach Hotel -Garden Chapel by the Sea. Very popular, great price, unique and fun!

His web link is below-if you Google him there are several videos of weddings he's done.

http://hawaiianroyaltyweddings.com/

Where in WI are you? We live just outside of Madison

Hello Michael,

 

It is nice to have a gentleman posting on this board. I am happy to say it was not you.

 

Have a fantastic evening

 

Marie

A relief to know - thanks for the reply.

M

Should any of the recent posting referring to "miscreants" or "bad apples" be directed toward me please be assured I have not the intent to deceive or hide my identity. Any "rules" there are for this very unique and generous endeavor are not known to me . . . . perhaps they are "understood" by those who participate.

I apologize should I have disturbed the Karma on the thread.

Regards at all,

Michael

Hi B,

 

This gown is not the same as the one you wanted. But it is BLUE:). It is yours if you like it. It is a David Miseter size 8. I can send it to your house or work, and I can request for signature.

 

 

 

 

 

*****

I thought it would be perfect for DW on our U.S. Veterans cruise in Nov as it would compliment my AF Mess Dress - but she doesn't care for the exposed shoulder style! Darn!! Very nice though.

Michael

Hmmm. That would look amazing for our Miss Saigon ball after Shanghai.

Actually it was made in Shanghai.

So pretty! Love the styling-- link to site so others can order?

Thanks!

There are several but www.eaststore.com was our choice.

My wife just got this custom made-to-size Choengsam for one of our next two cruises.

Of course if she gains more than 5 ounces it's history! Took two weeks from direct factory order to delivery - fits perfectly, great price.

. . here are just two of many occasions during my short 32-year career.

My previous post should have said "short 32-year retirement." :rolleyes:

Wifflebat, OT, but your photos are nice and certainly there would be no question of the appropriateness of your formal wear in either case (I see you wore civilian formal wear on the veterans cruise))). Sgt. Davis also caught my attention because I was stationed in another artillery unit near his at Ft. Hood at the time he was awarded the Medal of Honor. I didn't know him personally, but knew others who served with him in Viet Nam. There is no end to the surprises on the CC boards. Have great 50th anniversary and veterans cruises. I know you will. Thanks for an interesting discussion.

Thanks,

I'll share a couple of stories with you that few people know -

In the movie 'Forrest Gump' the MOH scene is the actual footage of Sammy's medal presentation by LBJ and the head of the character Forrest Gump (played by actor Tom Hanks) was superimposed on Sammy's body. The wound to Forrest's butt in the movie related to the multiple fletchette wounds (30+?) inflected on Sammy's lower back and legs by one of his own batteries 105mm howitzer's firing a beehive round over his unconscious, thought to be dead body.

Adrian Cronauer, the 'Good Morning Vietnam' DJ (played in the movie by Robin Williams) was also a special guest on that cruise. He told us, "If I did in real life what the movie depicts I'd still be in Levenworth." Both are very interesting and special people.

Moments after the picture of Sammy and I was taken while awaiting the evenings entertainment to start, I offered to buy Sammy a drink. His reply was, " I'd really love one but that Agent Orange has my body so messed up that I can't, . . . . but a cold water would be great. " He got the water . . . and refills!

I have had the honor to have met, drank and visited with five MOH recipients (4 Army and 1 AF) one of which I worked with prior to his posthumous award . They all have been truly the most modest, approachable, engaging people I have ever met.

Mike

I agree that retired military are allowed to wear their uniform at certain time. However, some of these posts are talking about veterans wearing their old uniforms. Different story? Yes?

I would never think of wearing any of my old uniforms (even if I could fit in them), I'm not retired.

I've cruised in the last year or so with a couple of active duty military and one of them wore his dress uniform to dinner one night. Perfectly fine. Why would a retired individual haul around a uniform to go on a cruise, would that same person routinely wear it out to dinner at Olive Garden at home? Makes little or no sense to me. To each his/her own I guess.

Hi RV,

Since I don't know your service branch you can refer to this (somewhat current) AF document for a bit of information on authorized uniform wear by 'category' for AF military members.

http://www.airforcewriter.com/afi36-2903.pdf (See Chapter 6, table 6-1 on page 151).

Further, per this AFI, as a 'separated' (non-retired) AF veteran one could in the specific instances indicated wear their uniform. Other services may differ in someway or other.

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As to your question as to why would a retiree haul around a uniform for a cruise or wear one to a civilian dinner . . . here are just two of many occasions during my short 32-year career.

2009-Veterans Cruise I w/Sammy Davis (MOH Recipient)

An "unofficial" military related function at which I or other service members could have worn authorized mess dress or other uniforms per directives.

Ready to attend a "civilian" sponsored black-tie dinner to benefit the WI Veterans Museum. Could have been held in an Olive Garden but thankfully it wasn't. On second thought the food might have been better if it was.

There are many reasons a retiree might prefer to, have the option of, or be expected to wear mess dress or other uniform.

Granted this isn't a routine night out at an 'Olive Garden' but one can see that the directives can not spell out each and every unique occasion that one might be permitted to wear uniforms. A measure of individual discretion and an honest interpretation of the intent the directives is expected - one can not just run to the Orderly Room to get answers like we used too.

In November we have the honor to cruise with hundreds (perhaps thousands) of active, retired and separated brothers-in-arms of all branches including four retired Joint Chief's of Staff. You can bet there will be not only mess dress and class A's but many true hero's with major decorations, kilts, swords, spurs and more. Should be fun.

Folks that served in military have no authorization to wear a military uniform for any social function that I'm aware of. I would appreciate any information to the contrary. Retired military can and do wear the uniform at official military functions they participate in. I've not found any information to allow wearing a uniform for any day to day activities other than by active duty or reserve military on official business. If someone can point me toward some "official" documentation that provides authorization I would appreciate it. I did my 14 years of active duty and have never worn a military uniform after I became a civilian.

Each branch of service has unique but yet generally consistent directions on uniform policy. Both DOD and Federal Law have input on the subject and I 'understand' that in the somewhat recent past the AF has issued an AFI(?) [first time I've ever heard of such a term] that adds a degree of confusion as it seems to contradict policy as stated in other AF directives. I have yet to see this AFI personally!

Being a veteran, in and of it's self, does not imply a blanket authorization to wear the uniform. Retired, I repeat retired military can in fact wear the "uniform authorized upon retirement" or "the current authorized uniform". Wear can be for military as well as some civilian functions.

I'm sure you are totally correct on the "day-to-day" uniform statement. As a 14-year veteran you would not be authorized to wear the uniform for any function other than those 'few' stated in official service directives - that's to the best of my understanding for any branch. However, awarded full-size medals and ribbons can be worn (as on a suit) and mini-medals can be worn on a civilian tuxedo (for appropriate occasions of course).

I would suggest individual research on specific questions as there are multiple sources of official and unofficial information; some outdated by years, some not reflecting current changes, some open to various degrees of interpretation and others reflecting nothing but personal 'opinion'. You might try a Google search for 'military uniform wear for veterans' as a place to start.

If one would look hard enough they could find any answer they may prefer . . . . . probably wrong as well. I believe my information to be at least reasonably accurate.

Thanks for your service.

I believe in my second post I did correct my opinion on the intent and meaning of your question - and did apologize for my misunderstanding of your question.

As I stated at the end of my last post - "wear of the uniform by a non-career veteran . . . " I take it that was the question you wanted answered.

Again, sorry for my first reply as I read it in a context you didn't intend. My mistake entirely.

Upon parsing the text of your question and my reply with more thought I perhaps should say that I do not in any way believe you personally think of Viet vets as criminal for fighting an 'undeclared war', far from that. As read at first it did to me tend express a sediment, surely unintended, as inferring a somewhat critical opinion of uniform wearing by such veterans.

That position as we all know was clearly and loudly expressed by many and it triggered a too quick reaction from one who is still dealing with old and still uncomfortable memories. I do sincerely apologize for my inaccurate interpretation of the intent of your question.

I might have better replied to your question as follows:

"Service directives do not authorize uniform wear by type of war (declared or not) or specific war (Vietnam vs other wars). In general, uniform wear is specifically detailed in regulations for active, reserve, guard, recently discharged and retired members. A 'non-career' veteran of any era (except MOH recipients) are not authorized to wear any service uniform after 'x'-days of discharge. There may be some exceptions for parades and such but certainly not other occasions or military functions as we are discussing herein."

OK? And thank you for your service!

Seeing war was never officially declared with Vietnam, does the "Honorably discharged former service members who served in time of war" apply to Vietnam vets? I'm not being a wise guy..... I am truly interested in the response.

 

Thanks.

Your question is quite 'off subject' but I shall reply with this:

The United states has formally declared war on only five (5) occasions.

Congress has authorized military engagements thirteen (13) times, of which Vietnam was one (with a vote of 504 to 2).

There has been seven (7) significant or extended military actions authorized by the United Nations Security Council and funded by the U.S. Congress.

On 125 or more occasions our Presidents have, without Congressional authorization, engaged our military in armed conflicts.

The tone of your question to me suggests you are expressing the old anti-war opinion that Vietnam veterans are criminals. If I err in this please explain your point to the contrary that I might apologize.

Additionally, might I suggest you direct any other political questions you might have to a forum more suited to such topics.

I also cringe at the sight of military men traveling in fatigues, as it was not allowed during my service (Viet Nam era).

 

Seeing the reports of special attention and free drinks just causes me to wonder at the motivation.

No disrespect intended toward your having a different opinion but I firmly believe you are totally incorrect in your suggestion of motivation. I accept you position as honest input, I hope you will do likewise with mine.

Today official travel in BDU's, ACU's, etc is generally authorized . . . unlike in our day. Most duty uniforms one sees on active bases/posts these days are the 'combat' uniforms and show a solidarity with those at the 'point-of-the-spear' as they say. Things do change!

As a Nam vet you can surely recall the general attitude towards the military all too often displayed by the public during that period! Today things are thankfully much different, in large part because most Vietnam vets and a much more caring citizenry can separate government policy from the warrior.

If a personal interaction with an active duty member or veteran in uniform on a cruise through a dinner conversation, hand shake, approving nod or a wink from a pretty lady might encourage that person to later say "Thanks" on the way home from the cruise when they see a young GI in the airport . . . then I'm quite pleased to perhaps have helped that happen. It would have been so nice if that had happened when we came home.

Spending several thousands of dollars on airfare, cruise, tours plus hundreds more for mess dress, medals, etc. and then lugging it along for a couple of free drinks! I think NOT! Not for me and I would suggest not for others.

And thank you for your service!

Yes, wear it and wear it proud.

 

My SO wore his on a cruise for formal night. We were recognized the rest of the cruise. Really made him proud. He's 22 years retired Air Force.

The next night was my 40th B-Day and he proposed on stage. What an outpouring of gratitude we received.

 

Unfortunately he can no longer fit into his Mess Dress.

It's either my cookin or to many cruises.:p

 

I love seeing Military in uniform.

 

Happy Cruising.

 

And Thank You for your service.;)

From northern Michigan huh!

Just returned from an Air Force reunion held in Sault Ste Marie! We had a very beautiful drive up the western shore of the lake.

Best to you - 'Keep the shiny side up & the pointy end forward'

Michael

Thanks for your input and comments.

I like 'Hlitner' I could never fit in my last active duty uniforms of 33 years ago; almost perhaps but not close enough. Broke down and bought a new mess dress that looks and fits well enough that I should not degrade the AF image . . . . beyond repair at least.

We truly miss the service life and the great friends we've made and still know in so many places. As we will be cruising alone without knowing anyone I hope wearing the uniform will encourage some of my brothers-in-arms (and sisters as well) to visit awhile and share the comradeship unique to those who have served regardless of branch or rank.

As well, perhaps others will be reminded that our young active duty troops need support, understanding and THANKS!

Again, thanks to you all for the comments!

Since there aren't very many people who have earned the honor of wearing Mess Dress, I wouldn't say there are a lot of uniforms on the ships. There are usually one or two. Sometimes we even see non-US service personnel.

For the past several cruises we have been privileged to be dining with someone so attired. I will say he garnered a lot of attention; most people thanked him for his service.

You earned every one of those medals. Wear them with pride & thank you for your service. But you won't "fly under the radar".

Funny you should mention radar - that's what I worked on for 20 yrs all over the world.

A question for those who have taken a recent cruise.

On formal nights were there military wearing mess dress, mini-medals w/tux or ribbons on suits? Very many?

I will for sure wear my mess dress on the Princess Veterans Cruise in November but wondering if I should on our 11-day cruise to Hawaii in Sep/Oct. or stick with the tux option.

Anyone going on the Princess 'Cruising for a Cause - U.S. Veterans'? How about you "eyeamacruiser" ?

Check-in on the roll call if so. :):)

http://www.princess.com/cruisingforacause/veteranscruise.html#.Ufa5O6zheOE