dockrocker

I know they can't see and anticipate everything, especially with us just one of 16 - 18 rooms they take care of.

I believe (but am not certain) that it's more like 20-24 now. Quite a load.

Enjoyable and realistic food review. Well done. I always find it funny when people rave about chicken wings on this forum. Folks......it's just chicken wings. lol

I guess I feel the same way about people getting super excited about frozen lobster! I think some people really respond to the idea of getting a relatively high-value food item for free, even if it's not a particularly good specimen of same.

Please do NOT copy this entire post into yours, because that really makes scrolling a huge pain for others. It’s easier for everyone if you just copy the part you have a question about, or none at all.

Bless you. ;)

they go out of their way to offer alternate dining elsewhere at a great expense so those that don't want to get dressed up on formal nights can go elsewhere.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post (when we decide to skip formalwear, we eat in the Lido), but I think it may be going too far to imply that providing a buffet is "going out of [HAL's] way at great expense." The buffet is offered every night on every cruise line, after all.

There was a high contingent of international travellers on that particular cruise and they did pull out all the stops, particularly the new wealth Russians who never saw logo wear with glitter they did not want to wear on every item, matching or not.

This makes multiple times I've seen you snark about "new-wealth Russians." I understand that your intent is to illustrate someone's lack of taste and judgment. I'm just not sure you realize whose is being demonstrated.

Unless there is serious injury - or worse - I like to find the humor in things that happen at sea. I really do believe in the motto "The worst day at sea is better than the best day at work." In this review (the Dream) we had fire, collision at sea, complete loss of power in the South Atlantic, several missed ports, and we even ran out of lemons for tea! Yet it turned out to be one of the best cruises we have been on.

 

If one refuses to get stressed when unfortunte things happen then one can handle just about anything. To answer your question, however, not being on the Dawn I really don't know how I would have handled a review - but there certainly appears to be enough material to have had some fun with it.:)

 

Jack

You're my hero, Jack.

If you've actually been in the industry for many years you know that the bolded statement is BS!!

 

Flight attendants in particular make paupers' wages and often work terrible hours. They don't get paid for a large chunk of the actual hours they are at work. If there flight is held at the gate, they aren't being paid even though they must perform their normal duties as if the plane were in flight.

 

A first year flight attendant can earn more on unemployment than from their salary. And if you want to change companies... you start at the bottom as if you are new to the industry, zero seniority and bottom of the pay scale.

 

How do I know this? Read my signature! My wife has been a flight attendant for 15+ years.

A lot of young flight attendants live in my neighborhood because there's an express bus nearby to the airport. This explains why they're so cranky most of the time -- that and the high heels!

I guess my last comment on this topic. I don't thing the ships follow "US Culture" because most cruisers are from the US as some have stated. I think what we have here is an industry standard that is legal and most profitable for the lines. It just happens that those of us in the US are more used to it because several US-based industries play the same wage game for the same reasons, while it's not the norm in other countries. Whether you feel it's right, wrong, irresponsible, immoral, or whatever, the fact remains that it's quite the norm in the industry and we can either chose to cruise or do something else with our vacation money. The lines don't do it because they want to operate in a way familiar with US customers. They do it because it is better for them economically.

I think this is an excellent point. But what is better for them economically wouldn't necessarily fly unless the majority of cruisers were okay with the practice. The latter enables the former.

Would you not be happier paying a few dollars more knowing an equitable wage was being paid?

Absolutely, although it's important to note that it will come to more than a few dollars more. The problem we have is the ingrained expectation of receiving rock bottom-priced products -- I think that most consumers from certain (not all by any means) wealthy nations are really married to those price expectations and would absolutely balk at paying higher prices so that those making/delivering the product can have a living wage. In other words, people will play all kinds of mind games with themselves to not have to review the facts on how little most of the world actually makes, as long as their cruises, clothing, electronics, food, etc. stay cheap. We've seen some of that in this thread.

I was interested in your comment about ships around Oz removing autogratuities. What happens to the crew's pay as a result? Is it significantly raised, and if so, are cruise fares raised to cover it? Are Aussies okay with that?

I don't disagree with you that American tipping habits create an unfair expectation for the rest of the world, and I sympathize. But I'm not sure what we can do about it without seriously penalizing the worker in the short and perhaps also the long run. I do not think we will be successful at getting Americans, for example, to rise up en masse and demand higher pay for international labor. Most of the U.S. still doesn't get how much wage disparity there is right here -- and how much that gap has widened in the last 30 years as real wages have tumbled.

What I meant was when I asked for water in Amsterdam, anywhere, they gave me a small glass bottle of water poured into an even smaller glass. It also applied to Brussels, The Hague, Rotterdam, and a few western German cities we visited. My Dutch friend told me they don't serve water like they do in the US, free tap water in large quantities. I wasn't implying the tap water wasn't any good. I would have been fine with it if they would have been willing to provide me some. :)

In that case you ARE better off with scotch!

O and somewhere here I read that it was insulting to say workers must move on if unhappy.

No, I didn't say it was "insulting." I pointed out that it shows little understanding of the very limited job options of much of the world's population. It's a very insular view: I can easily leave a job if I'm not happy; why can't everyone?

Take a room steward servicing 20 rooms with 2 people in each = 40 people x 3.50 each = $140 per day X 7 = $980 per week X 4 = $3920per month X 12 = $47040 per year, not including those cabins with more then 2 people! $3920 per month is more then most of these people could earn in a year in their home countries, not to mention the pay received from the cruise line, plus room and board and other benefits! MOST of us should have it so good!

Except that your numbers are all wrong. On NCL and most other lines, stewards work in teams of two and have up to 30 cabins per pair. Let's assume that this team gets $3.50 a day from the $12 pp/pd service charge. That would make $2,940 per month each, minus what they have to pay other members of the housekeeping staff out of pocket (yes, that's correct) to do the rooms of passengers who don't leave their cabins until afternoon, and not including the couple of hundred dollars a month the cruiseline gives them that month. They have 12 hours of physical work a day (approximately 7 a.m.-1 p.m. and 5-10 p.m.), 7 days a week, every day of the year except the 8-12 weeks when they're at home and don't get paid at all (zero paid vacation days, although they do get airfare home and back). They also don't get paid sick days and if they are so unfortunate as to become seriously injured on the job, they're terminated and sent home. I guess you could call sharing a tiny cabin with 3-5 others "free room," although I think it's stretching the point.

I very much doubt that you'd be squealing about how good you have it if these were your working conditions for $26,460-29,400 annually -- or considerably less $ than that if people like you had your way and were able to stiff the staff because you don't think they did anything "special" and tipping is only for "above and beyond."

Also consider that the daily service charge doesn't necessarily mean the team of two gets $3.50 a day. The $12 goes into a pool that's split among all tippable staff (minus bar staff) on board. I would be interested in knowing exactly how it gets divided up between food staff and housekeeping staff, if anyone has this info.

When I visit Europe I know I'm going to pay out the nose even at the Burger King drive through, gas is more expensive than scotch :), if you ask for water it comes in a tiny bottle for about $5 (no tap)

Hmmmm, I'm confused by this, Mike. In many parts of Europe, bottled water is much less expensive than in the U.S. The exceptions tend to be restaurants when you order water for the table -- and anywhere near a tourist spot.

Also, there are very few places in Europe where an American shouldn't feel fine about drinking tap water.

I say this recognizing that your preference may be for bottled water, but a lot of people reading these threads haven't been to Europe yet, and I wanted to clarify this for anyone who might freak out at the potential cost of bottled water/status of tap water.

Can somebody with far more intelligence than me ask a mod to close this thread, i really need my bed and i just cant face the FAQ's if i honest to find out how to complete this request.

 

Good night all,

The thread is useful whether or not you continue to post in it. Why do you need it to be shut down?

You're up awfully late for an Italian it's 2.40am! :rolleyes:

Yes, it's fairly late in Italy. But not where I am.

Failure of imagination will get you every time.

Well, you should blame that TA for misleading you.

I'm not sure we should assume the TA misled him. We've been over several points a number of times in this thread. There may just be an unwillingness or inability to take in unwelcome information going on here.

My Mama disagrees and she has a Florentine accent :p

Then we Italians promise never to tip your mama.

If you follow that logic surely on NCL you should pay your bill in Krone and pay $22 or a bottle of beer or $85 for a bottle of wine :confused: :D

Ah, but it's Bahamas-registered, isn't it? ;)

I hate to tose this out, but I have liked all the NCL employees/bar servers so much, have admired their efforts so much, enjoyed their conversations, their friendship, that I additionally give a buck or so for each round of drinks served. I just do it because I like to. I feel so fortunate to be able to sit there and pay $4 to $9 a drink and be sitting in a cruise ship while I do that. I didn't really do anything in my life to deserve that ability more than I'm sure these hard working folks serving me, except be fortunate in my birth, right time, right place. Just my reasons for not having a problem with it.

What a nice post. I love hearing from people who are humble enough to recognize that we don't get to where we are only through hard work (though it's almost impossible to succeed without it). In addition to our own efforts and dedication, luck of geography, timing, family and community have an effect on our circumstances. The world is full of people who work just as hard as I do but don't have the advantages I've enjoyed. Some of them are even serving me drinks on cruise ships.

It's an insult to tip in Italy in a restaurant or cafe (as the service charge is added to the bill) and in Japan if you leave money on a table the waiter is honour bound to return the money.:eek:

Well, not an insult in Italy. More and more Italians are tipping now, and while it's not expected of foreigners, no one looks askance at them for tipping.

In most of Japan, you're right; it's actually considered offensive. But there are exceptions to that as well.

The $8 drink isn't the problem, the $1.20 gratuity is?

It's all about priorities -- and whether we have the ability to put ourselves in others' shoes. ;)

I feel that wait staff dealing with people who are drinking deserve 15% more than wait staff scooping ice cream. ;)

You said it, brother (or sister!). And dealing with drunks who are also whingeing cheapskates...they should get 50%!

You are indeed right.

 

But yes its worth it. It could mean staff getting a fair wage, who can complain about that. And remember its not just US citizens cruising, many are now cruising from non tipping countries like the UK. Whilst i am positive some from the UK will post and disagree i would equally imagine many will have the same feelings as me regarding this.

If you want the staff to get a fair wage without it coming out of tips, you can plan on your cruise fare doubling or tripling.

Gratuities are a large part of the reason that labor is so cheap on cruiselines, which keeps your base fare low.

The other reason that labor is cheap on cruiselines is that the lines recruit from impoverished countries where job opportunities are exceptionally limited. When you make flippant comments like, "If they don't like it, they can move on," you're showing a stunning lack of understanding of how the rest of the world lives.

Okay. We get that you grew up in the UK where many people do not tip. And when you're in the UK, you can feel free not to tip. But just as Americans who leave their comfort zone and expect everything to be just like it is in the US are being unreasonable, so are you when you expect international cruiselines to operate like everything does on your home base.

Passengers are not going to rise up en masse and demand that the gratuity be removed because most passengers simply don't agree with you. There is quite a bit of complaining around here about the drink autogratuity being a full 15% (mostly from people who live in rural areas and/or are elderly), but very few people are arguing, as you are, that there shouldn't be a tip at all. (And fortunately, even fewer people are pretending that their job situations at home are remotely analogous to cruise ship crews'. The "just move on" bit is priceless.)

You can pay the autogratuity or you can skip the cruise.