old nutter

The currency changes on the NCL web sites involve a great deal more than just converting the prices via a simple button.  The consumer laws in the US are way different from those in the UK and Europe, so all sorts of things change, such as the way service charges have to be included in offers if the booking is a UK/Mainland Europe driven one and cancellation clauses are way different as well.  Plus the TORs are very different because of those differences as  well  Those changes mean that huge parts of the site have to be different if the cruise is being billed as being bought in the US/UK or Mainland Europe.  NCL have chosen to deal with it using top level geographic directors on their sites.  If you use ncl.com it will automatically direct further information to the site for where it thinks you are at.  Normally, even if you start at a non-US location to see what another location site looks like, it will still direct you back to what it thinks is your current location.  Clearly, some browsers can get confused and if you use a VPN, your request will cause auto-location web designs to assume that you are where your VPN server lives.  That is one of the reasons that NCL IT often gets things wrong on the sites when the management make big changes that seem like a good idea to them, but often make huge chunks of work for the techies to keep page inter-connections going to the right places. 

I hope that helps a bit.

Just back from a trip with our adult daughter in a Haven 2BR on Breakaway.  We have been in 2BR suites on a number of different NCL ships.  She has slight back issues and is supercritical of her beds!  She has always worked with the room stewards to get the best configurations and it has always worked out. The most awkward one to solve was on Jewel ships, the Epic used to be a bit of a problem because of the configuration with the shower and bathroom but that improved when they changed the base sofa unit last year.  The Breakaway this year was probably the best so far.  The whole configuration will be less successful for a 2+2 group but for a 2+1 group is perfect.  You can live as a complete group in the main areas during the day, but once that door to the second bedroom is closed, the third person is completely in their own space.  That feeling will not come if that person uses the living room sofa.

Interesting problem!  The thing is, do you want the ship to be a floating baby sitter or a teacher/schoolroom.   Your two are at the very start of their life education.  All of the Europe trips and particularly the Med ones and the places they will be visiting will be thousands of year old and their populations will have been there for most of those years.  They will see places in the future on TV/Computer screen and in their learning books in school that they have been to and seen with their own eyes.  Our kids were slightly older than yours when we lived in Cyprus courtesy of HM Forces many years ago.  40 years on and our daughter still remembers meeting of the people who lived in other countries and seeing how they lived and have lived for years.  She is no linguist but she can count, say hello, good morning and goodnight in dozens of different languages!

You live in a place where the great majority of people around you will never see and hear the things your children will see and hear on a Med cruise and it will give them a huge step up on their life learning journey compared to their contemporaries.

I don't know how good or bad the NCL Air is these days, but we stopped using included air with NCL over 10 years ago after a really difficult time when they lost our booking and we ended up on a real hair-raising flight with a very small and new cheap airline who only had one flight a day to where we were meeting the ship.  From then on, we have always booked the flights ourselves.  If all goes well, there is no reason not to use cheap linked air, but the minute anything goes wrong, you have problems.  A linked flight will be on a group booking between the cruise-line and the airline.  Your details are all held by someone who has no real skin in the game and it is virtually impossible to sort things out to your satisfaction.  Doing the flight booking yourself may be more expensive, particularly if it is a late booking, but doing it yourself, you have a flight locator code that gives you a direct link to the airline and you can use that to negotiate direct to sort your problem out.

As far a ports go, I suggest you make a big list with the possible ports you want to visit.  Work out what you want from them, eg great landscapes or history, then rate them.  It probably helps if you have high, medium and low rating tables of the ports and then you can fit a cruise that pitches you into the ideal list.  It also helps if you decided if you are going on a one-off cruise or are likely to go again.  For instance, if you go to Naples, it is probable that you would want to go to Pompeii on a first visit, but if you go there  second time, you might choose Herculaneum or Campi Flegrei instead or even Sorrento or Ischia.

Enjoy the planning

There is a special bonus on the Jewel ships if you choose the suites on the opposite side to the upstairs sundeck.  If something is happening over on the port side (especially if docked) and you are in one of the starboard suites, it is very easy to just pop up the stairs out of the main Haven and see over the port  side rails.  There are also times when the ship is under way and passing some interesting site when this can be useful as well.  Not a fantastic bonus, but just another tick in the box to get the most for your money.  We have always booked the starboard 2BR suites. The outside access from that upstairs Haven sundeck on the Jewel ships is a major bonus though - big open area with bags of space and special butler service for drinks etc.  Also, although there is no Haven restaurant, you can get lunch served in the Haven area by the Haven butler.

It all depends on how you use the facilities that governs the value you put on the uplift between Haven and non-Haven suites whether you think it is worth it.  That extra and normally peaceful space with the sliding roof really makes a difference if you spend a lot of time on the ship.  The Jewel Haven area really does expand your own personal space feeling that you do not seem to get on the big ships.

One important point about the med is not just what is there now, but what was there in some cases thousands of years ago and in between as well.  Moving around on your own can be fun, but without either many hours of research or booking a trip that is escorted by someone who you trust to tell you the whole stories of the places.  Whether you chose a private tour or do an NCL one is more a choice of cost or smaller groups not what you will get out of the trip.

I can point to a couple of  trips that would take many visits for you to understand without a really good guide.  Both trips are in Naples, Herculaneum and Campi Flegrei.  In Herculaneum, almost every step uncovers a snippet about both the AD79 eruption of Vesuvius and the implications of the Greek and Roman societies at the time and how they recovered from the disaster.  If you have travelled half way round the world to visit the place, it would be wasted if you cannot get underneath the place and this only happens if you make the most of your short time on the site.

Campi Flegrei is a huge flat volcano some 5-7 miles across and it was where the Greek and Roman fleets were headquartered around AD100-300.  The whole land area has moved up and down several feet in the past few years because of the magma movements.  You can see the entrance to Hell and where the second most important Oracle sat and sit in the cave where she gave out her prophesies. 

You would never find these special places on your own in the short part of a day you will have there.  I only use these examples to highlight how all of the ports on med cruises have so much to show of their existence and the influence they have had on the whole of western civilisation over thousands of years.  Those of us who live in Europe and can travel round all of these places numerous times have the luxury of time to learn for ourselves.  Those who are coming to these places and countries from a long way away for the first time need to make the most of every minute of the trip and you can only get that by having experienced guides show you inside the places.  That way you will get a much better idea of why we Europeans are so outward looking and then go back home and start planning your next trip here.  Above all, remember that the sun and sand is pretty near the same all over the world, so why not make the most of the beach time near home and learn how and why the rest of the world does what and how it does by delving deep inside the history of thousands of years, not a few hundred.

UK based, sailing on Breakaway in September and 40+ third relative.

We do not have any of the FaS (2 specialist meals or beverage package) for the third passenger.  I suspect the reason is that NCL are getting their own back because UK terms stop them charging the tips on the beverage pack that others have to pay.

Worse still, there is no realistic way we can find for the third passenger to purchase the basic drinks package from FaS.

We had a superb cruise a few weeks ago on Epic. The staff were wonderful. The general condition of the ship was pretty good for us.  We were in the Haven and so cannot comment on other accommodation.  The only place we noticed the effect of the pandemic lay-off in the suite was the serious pealing on the balcony where the rail varnish had pealed down to the wood.  Curing this would involve serious sanding or replacement and would not be very easy with customers around, and being minor it did not spoil the trip for us at all.

The public areas were in very good condition in the main, apart from one glaring example.  The Epic is inherently short of areas with open views to the sea by design.  Most of those areas are on deck 15.  The forward and midships areas are well looked after as are the open decks on Deck 16.  However, the problems that have caused the closing of H2O and the Sports Area also including the closure of the climbing wall, the mini golf the Market Place and some of the children's water features mean that the stern section of Deck 15 has been left pretty-well derelict.  H2O is well barred but walking round that zone of the ship gives a very poor impression.  No effort has been made to make this area attractive.  Maybe the problem causing the closures is making this part of the ship uninhabitable, so NCL do not want customers spending time here? Whatever the reason this problem takes the shine of what otherwise looks a pretty-well maintained ship.

Recently back from an excellent Epic cruise.  $50 non-ref credit for ongoing missing H2O was applied before we departed. The food was great as usual in all locations - particularly enjoyed La Cucina.  The entertainment was OK, but as many have said whilst it is a significant enjoyment issue it's content is not hugely important as a choice contender.  The staff were outstanding.  There was clearly a higher percentage of inexperienced staff, but all were always cheerful and helpful.  The complicated pricing of the beverage packages is still confusing and the move to paperless bar transactions makes mistakes difficult to sort out.  Keeping a close eye on the TV account page is vital so that charges for things that are not covered by the package can be identified before being repeated.  It seemed that the bar staff concentrate on making the drinks, not telling you whether the order is chargeable or not - that's their job after all.  Paperless bars are a bit of a minefield in this confusion period.

The ship herself was still recovering to come to terms with the new world of post Covid and less money.  The rear quarter of deck 16 was dead.  H2O was blocked off, the climbing wall was closed, the mini golf has become blank deck and the Marketplace has  gone too.  The ship has always been short of open deck space with views to the sea, so the  effective removal of everything on a quarter of that open deck is not a good call.  There does not appear to be anything being done to even make it an attractive stroll and the H2O section looks abandoned.  I know it seems a bit daft but I got the feeling that the ship itself feels this sense of abandonment.  The two boarded-up shops on Deck 7 and lack of any staff in the mini shopping islands when the ship was under way added to this feeling.  It felt a bit like looking at someone whose head was down when in one or two of these areas.

Having said all that we had a superb cruise thanks to those great members of staff and I would return to the Epic without hesitation if the cruise was a good fit for us.

Maybe it has more to do with the fact that the ship is more controllable with the pointy end going forwards rather than the blunt going forwards. (Sorry to get technical!🙂)

Pretty good list.  Ephesus is a superb place.  Naples still has a lot to offer.  I agree about Herculaneum - beware if it is a Wednesday when you go - it is closed on that day every week. If you have never gone North West to Campi Flegrei give it a go.  Not every day you can walk over a live super volcano.  This area was a centre of Greek and Italian civilisation around 2000 years ago.  You can see the entrance to Hades and the cave where the second most important oracle, the Sybil gave out her propheses.  I would advise you get a guide or go on a ship trip here because you will need someone to describe the area to get the most out of it.  Possibly have a look on the net for some of the documentaries before you go.

According to the AIS she is due to head for Marseille when she leaves Civitavecchia later today.  The arrival in Marseille is entered as 9:30 tomorrow.  Distance is 360 NM.

We have been on Epic a number of times and never felt that it was a problem.  Yes, the ship is not the prettiest looking outside, and there are few spots where you can look out at the sea so you have yo work hard to find them.  The entertainment on her is first class. Priscilla is challenging to some people with certain behavioural views but if you are prepared to accept those ways of living it is very entertaining and humorous with beautiful over-the-top costumes.  It is billed as requiring parental guidance, so if you have children, read the reviews on land and sea and exercise that parental guidance BEFORE not after!

If you have enjoyed Strictly Come Dancing or one of the derivatives like Dancing with Stars, you should make sure you do not  miss Burn the Floor - it is closely related.  We have seen and enjoyed  it several times both on Epic and on land in a theatre.

Most people on this string have already pointed out that most other complaints are more  corporate than Epic, so judge it on those as well and go enjoy the busy Europeanport-intensive cruises that the Epic majors on. For anyone who has never visited the Med treat it as a trailer and if you have been, bury yourself in well over 2000 years that have shaped the world.

Like most things, as they say in Yorkshire - you don't get owt for nowt.  4G signals can travel for 10-15 miles along line of sight.  They don't bend round the earth, so the horizon is the same as you can see.  5G has massively much more capacity (more users)and much higher speed of data but not as much range because the frequencies get absorbed more quickly It has a range of around 500m (1500 feet-ish).  5G also handles moving users better because it's latency is better.  6G is still experimental and will fill gaps that turn up when 5G gets rolled out fully.  But, and it is a huge but, once you are out of range of any transmitters no ground-based mobile technologies will help.

2 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

They are selling exactly what people should expect on a satellite internet system.....

NCL are selling connectivity to the internet including allowing a range of protocols including streaming depending on what you buy.  If the particular service you expect because you get it at home has problems with the physical limits of a satellite link that is your problem not NCLs.  If it goes slow because a lot of people are sharing the uplink, again that is your problem not NCLs.  Bottom line is to buy what you understand is being sold and do your own research as to what the purchased item means, not complain when it doesn't deliver what it didn't say it would.

It works on 4G mobile not satellite so you need to be in reach of land to get it.  It looks like it "piggy backs" onto whichever 4G network is in reach. The terms are pretty restrictive, particularly since the "unlimited" offer has a "fair use policy" that would not get you anywhere near 17G and some countries do not even allow it to access their 4G networks with it.  Great for worldwide email and web browsing, but is not recommended for steaming.  It avoids having to either pay for mobile roaming on your phone or buying a local SIM card.  It has it's uses as long as you understand the limitations (yet again!)

I forgot to mention fact that all the main comms satellites are on the equator, so they go beyond the horizon if there are mountains close and south of the ship, so this can be an issue when moored in some places.  The effect is particularly bad in northern latitudes like Alaska, Norway and Iceland.  And it affects Kotor badly,  killing the Internet completely when the ship is in the inner fjord.

Different Related Communication Issue - If you are using your land-based mobile phone on the ship when the land is in sight, be careful which country it connects to, especially in the Med.  Two good examples are when sailing between Corsica and Sardinia where your phone will switch between France and Italy when you cross sides on the ship and on Rhodes when your phone keeps changing between Greece and Turkey

4 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

What you are not grasping is that:

Between the ship and its connection to land based servers there is a satellite communication that is often unpredictable (including dead spots at various ocean locations). Next time you are on the ship, do a speedtest and you’ll find that the “ping” time is huge- which has little to do with the quality of the equipment onboard.

...........

 

We do a lot of transpacific cruising and dead spots plus ultra slow pings are regular occurrences. It’s a ship in an ocean. And, as much as you might want, a cruise is not a good choice for a trip of any kind if your work relies on flawless satellite communications not associated with the actual operation of that ship.

 

 

One of the problems with connecting using satellites between a ship and a long distance place in different places on the earth is that the distance travelled by your signal is so far that even though it is travelling at the speed of light it will typically take between 120 and 140 msecs to do each leg of the journey to go up to the satellite and back down to your target ground station depending how far you are from the point immediately below the satellite.  That means that without any equipment delays it can take the better part of between a quarter and a third of a second multiplied by two (up and down there and up and down back) for a simple ping signal on this type of link to go round and back. So a single-hop "ping time" cannot be less than between 480 msec and 560 msecs, so near enough half a second.  The other limitation on that ping is that even though the satellite is around 36,000 kms above the earth, the horizon is such that it can only see about a third of the world at best, usually more like a quarter in practice.  So for instance if for example you are sailing around Japan and the target of your ping is in Florida, you cannot communicate in one hop, so with two hops the minimum round trip ping could take more than a second!  UK to Australia is typically three hops.

So be careful how you expect a satellite internet service to work and remember that even the speed of light is finite when your internet has to go intercontinental!

We have not done the Owners Suites on the Jewel ships, but have done both Haven and non-Haven 2-bed suites.  The uplift to the Haven is really all about space, comfort and convenience.  The perks are the same in all of the full suites, no no difference there.  Strange as it seems, there is a benefit on having one of the two-bed suites on the starboard side because the Haven sun-deck is above the port suites, so if you have one of the starboard suites, you have superb outside access to both sides of the ship so that if something is happening on same side as your balcony in one of those starboard suites,  you can nip up to  the sundeck and see over the port side and see out over that side.

The main courtyard area of the Haven has much more comfy full-length sun-beds that you get in the suite (nice as they are!).  Although there is no dedicated Haven restaurant for dinner, the area at the end of the courtyard has table seating and the Courtyard Butler will serve breakfast and lunch there.  The roof is also moved over when it is warm, so you have access to fairly private sun lounging as well.  I am not sure about all of the Jewel ships, but the last Jade refit put significant sun lounging facilities on the upper on deck, with loungers and cabanas.

Whether you want to have the extra space, comfort, convenient lunch and breakfast and outside viewing availability that comes along with the Jewel ship Havens at that extra cost is purely personal.  OK, so it doesn't come cheap, but are you really going to not make the most of your cruise rather than not spend what is quite a small percentage of your overall trip cost at the end of the day.  So in answer to the OP question, that extra cost is only worthwhile if you value the extras that come along with it - some do and some don't, that is why both usually sell out.  It is not true to say that the differences are good value or not because the difference is not just down to a list of perks in the end and of course, even a cruise in a suite only is a lot better than not having one at all if the Haven pushes you over your cost/value limit!!!

We have seen Oh, What a night a couple of times and it was very good.  However, the way best music on any NCL ship we have been on was the singing group "4ever".  Individually, the four singers had very good voices but their combined rendition of the Queen hit Bohemian Rhapsody was  superb.  Having said that there was one voice in the group that could make the hairs on your neck stand up.  Although Paul Tissierre, a baritone from Uruguay could sing tenor as well he was probably the smallest of the group, but as soon as he sang, his voice was so big it could fill the whole theatre - absolutely fabulous to hear.  We saw them once when they did "Time to Say Goodbye" and it bought tears to the eyes of lots of the audience.  Their usual encore piece was Nessum Dorma and with Paul leading it certainly lifted the roof at the end.  I am not sure they are still going or are likely to be on NCL, but if they are, go and see them.

On 8/8/2020 at 9:19 PM, CruiseMH said:

Believe me,you don`t need it to rest. We europeans are used to having no sea days. If you want a rleaxind holiday you can do a bahamas or bermuda cruise. 😉

I personally help myself by skipping rome.In Civitavecchia i use the day to relax on the empty ship. I was once in rome,didn`t like it at all and so thats it.

But if you want to go out from Civitavecchia and don't fancy  the crowds etc in Rome, you could catch a half-day trip to Ostia Antica.   The town was the main port for Rome but was eventually abandoned and was covered in dust until quite recently.  I has been partially excavated and is now classed as second only in importance to Pompeii as a site of Roman antiquity.  Make sure you get a guide to bring it to light and you will find so much about how the Romans lived.  There will be very few others around so is an easy site to see. It is just beyond Fiumicino Airport so is a bit over an hour along what is a pretty quiet main road.

On 7/22/2020 at 3:54 PM, Misself said:

Looking at 2022 Epic cruises, and see they are squeezing an extra port in to the itinerary.  Instead of the usual day at sea on Monday they are going to Ajaccio in Corsica.   Then for some reason mixing up the Naples and Rome days some weeks.   Price compared to 2021 is a quite a bit more though, unless 2021 is artificially low to entice bookings.

Switching has a bonus, particularly if you want to look outside the main tourist areas around Naples.  The archaeological sites apart from the big tourist ones are closed on Tuesdays, so changing round with Rome would allow  for trips around Naples museums as well as places to the North like Pozzuoli and Campi Flegrei.  There is a huge amphitheatre in Pozzuoli that is open to walk round on Wednesdays and it can all be seen without the masses of tourists that you  would get in Rome and Pompei (assuming you have already seen those of course). And Cumae has an absolutely fascinating history and is largely ignored by the bulk of tourists.  We went there a couple of years ago and there were only 3 or 4 other visitors apart from us!

Like most on this board, I am not an expert virologist.  However, I am an experienced Systems Engineer, so I am interested in compete processes, not just bits of it that undermine the whole system so I tend to look at the whole, not pick and mix bits and pieces of information.  Most of the discussion here has been about identifying who has the disease and making sure that stay off the ship.  Where this particular disease is so dangerous is much more to do with the point at which the virus is shed by someone incubating it even if they have no symptoms at all.

According to most science so far, it looks like virus shedding can start up to 4-5 days before any symptoms show up. Until we have some way to make absolutely sure that someone cannot spread the disease, we have to assume that everyone we meet is a risk to us!  One of the other worrying pointers is that science also tells us that the level of antibodies in anyone is a major factor in deciding whether having the antibodies means you are immune to it.  The danger is that the science apparently does not know if that is true or what the safe levels are if not.

There is no solution --- yet - just a measure of risk to you and others.  If you don't have it (not if you have no symptoms) and you can live life with the risk of catching it, then go ahead and do your thing.  However, you might just be in that dangerous infective period and others you meet may have issues that alter the level of risk to them.  So make sure you are not the one who transfers the disease to someone else who can't survive if they get it from you.  That level of uncertainty makes cruising totally dependent on science finding a way to effectively nullify this fiendishly effective disease in a number of ways.  It cannot really go ahead until the potential cruisers are confident that they will be safe.  Customer confidence is all powerful.

10 minutes ago, CruizinKittie40 said:

...  If the company goes under you get your money back. It's a no lose situation if you are financially able to do it. 

I am confused.  If the company holding your money goes under, surely you become an unsecured creditor. That means the big people get first dibbs at what is left and you could get only a few cents in the dollar if anything at all.  Or is there something I am missing?

There is a real chance that the UK will join the likes of Australia an New Zealand in imposing a 14-day isolation for almost everyone trying to enter the country for the foreseeable future. Then who else?

Just for a laugh (thought the OP was a comedy sketch worthy of Monty Python) we thought we might map a 7-day cruise from Barcelona in  summer on Epic in the new world of closed borders...

Day 1 - fly from UK to Barcelona and book into a hotel for two weeks.

Day 15 - Board Epic and sail.

Day 16 - Sea Day

Day 17 - Land in Naples and book into hotel or compulsory government accommodation for 14 days

Day 24 - Find webcam to see dock to watch Epic come and go.

Day 31 - Board Epic again

Day 32 - Land at Civitavechia for day not having left Italy

Day 33 - Land at Livorno for day not having left Italy

Day 34 - Land in Cannes and book into hotel or compulsory government accommodation for 14 days.

Day 41 - Find webcam to see dock to watch the Epic come and go

Day 48 - Board Epic again

Day 49 - Land at Barcelona and fly home to UK to go home for 14 days in quarantine.

Day 62 - Rejoin the world at the end of my 2 months long one week cruise holiday.

Any takers for a go at it this year then?

On 5/2/2020 at 4:55 AM, complawyer said:

the difference is the haven lounge and their pool area (which is quite small) probably not wort the difference unless you absolutely MUST be in the haven.  the 2 bedroom suites are essentially the same rooms

That view is a bit simplistic.  The two-bed suites  in the Jewel Class Haven are identical to the two-bed suites not in the Haven apart from their location.  The Haven ones are nearer to the middle section of the ship, so are very marginally more stable at sea.

The main differences in structure are to do with how you view your personal space.  The Haven space expands your available space with a fully flexible volume.  The roof of the Haven can be open, partially closed or closed completely to allow that volume to be more liveable than is possible with the suite and balcony.  There is no full restaurant on the Jewel class ships, but breakfast, lunch, snacks and drinks are served in the Haven by a dedicated butler.  Obviously, these facilities can be provided in suite, but it is totally down to how you value that extra space in the Haven.

As well as the main Haven area, there is a very large private sundeck above the Haven.  This space is at the top of the  ship and provides views outside, up to the sky, down the whole port side to the water line and to the stern.  Again, the value of this space is totally down to how you value your own space.  Clearly, if you are the sort of person who does not mind being confined to your cabin for inside and outside private space, the Haven suites are of little or no value.  However, if you value the extra personal space that the Haven provides, that uplift can make the difference in between "just a cruise" and "a full experience".  It's very personal, not just an unjustifiable "MUST".

If nothing else, the current lock-downs have shown a lot of people just how valuable personal space can be to your wellbeing and may change your view of how you want your cruise to be.