mamasylvia

Jeepers, xxoo, try reading what I actually said for a change. I specifically said to discuss the scooter idea with her doctor. No one here, including both of us, is qualified to tell the OP whether a scooter will work for her daughter.

And I see you are providing incorrect information again. If "RCCL ships haveone pool and one hot tub with a chair lift fleet wide" that would be a new development since 2013, at which point Oasis, one of the newer (then) ships, had one lift that served both pool and hot tub, and some of the ships had none. OP, if this matters to you, be sure to check with the cruise line and see which ships actually do have a lift.

I totally agree on switching to an accessible cabin. In fact, if you can't get one for your currently planned cruise, I would urge you to change cruises. The extra room and accessible features really make a difference!

All the mass-market cruise lines are quite accessible. I have cruised on Oasis of the Seas and Norwegian Pearl. Oasis was extremely accessible and getting around the ship was easy. Pearl was very accessible but sometimes the accessibility was hidden. For instance, one of the MDRs had a main entrance between floors - it looked like the only way to get in was to go up the stairs from one floor or down the stairs from the floor above, both obviously impossible for me on my scooter. But eventually I found out that there is an access from the lower floor, BUT to get there, I had to take an elevator from our room level to the level 7 (the only level with an easy route from the front of the ship to the rear - the other floors had corridors that were usually blocked by stewards' carts), scoot the length of the ship to the far rear elevator, then take THAT elevator down to level 6 where the restaurant entrance was. The corridors on level 6 did not run the full length of the ship, so that was the only way that particular restaurant was accessible. The other MDR, the buffet, and the premium restaurants were all truly accessible. The Pearl also had more and higher bumps in the walkways than I remember on Oasis. We upgraded to a non-accessible suite on the Pearl (for the extra room) and the door sills were high enough to be a challenge to scoot over. (Not blaming the Pearl for that, and it was my choice to try for a suite knowing it wasn't accessible, just providing information.) The boutique lines vary; for instance, I have read comments on here that European river cruises are a bad idea for wheelchair users, the ships aren't very accessible and typically ships don't dock directly on a dock, they dock to another ship and passengers may have to cross 3-4 ships to get to land and even then face steep steps up to street level!

IIRC, Western Caribbean is pretty accessible for beaches but more of a challenge to find accessible excursions. (I have not done that circuit, hopefully some of those who have will chime in.) You might want to look into Eastern Caribbean, several of the ports have accessible excursions and I was even able to do the dolphin encounter on Nassau. (I don't know if your daughter can get onto the boat, I am able to take a few steps.) I don't think I would recommend Alaska, at least for a first trip. At least one of the excursions that is labelled "accessible" involved taking a wheelchair down a very steep ramp! I'd suggest saving that for later, when you are all more used to what she can and cannot manage and what to ask operators about tours you are considering.

I don't know if this is feasible, but I would suggest asking her doctor if she could use a scooter. If medically acceptable and if she is willing to learn to adapt to it, it would be a wonderful way to give her some independence. There are very lightweight scooters on the market now (50-60 lbs) that are easy to transport - I brought mine as well as my wheelchair on my last cruise, and it got me through the airports as well as around the ship and on some excursions. (Some only permit manual wheelchairs.)

Also, talk to the accessible desk about how accessible the youth programs are. I suspect they will be completely accessible but you want to make sure before finalizing your plans, and I keep reading reports on here that the kids love the youth programs. You want to make sure your daughter can enjoy them if she chooses.

That approach would leave a lot of people acting on incorrect information. One of the benefits of a site like this, IMNSHO, is that when someone does post incorrect information, others can point it out. I benefited beyond words from people sharing their experiences and warning me what to expect in different situations, and if I can pay it forward to others, I will.

> And this is why NCL offers the "free" 3rd & 4th option

No doubt! Since they were in the same room with us, all it really cost NCL was food at the included restaurants. Meanwhile, their drinks, food at extra-cost places, excursions, and all onboard purchases went into their profit column.

> I also have had to spend half of cruise trip studying for some garbage at school

Oh no! I'm pretty sure that falls into the constitutionally-prohibited category of cruel and unusual punishment.

This was only DH's and my 2nd cruise and the kids' 1st ever. And none of us have been to Alaska before. So yeah, we all spent money on excursions (and would do it again). It was still a wonderful time and I don't think any of us truly regret the money we spent.

I keep meaning to share this and keep forgetting.

Last fall, when I made reservations for our Alaska cruise last month, I was thrilled to see the 3rd/4th person free option and listed our adult son and daughter without even asking them first - wanted to lock in the option and save lifeboat space for them and figured we could cancel them if they weren't interested. They both jumped at the chance and came on the cruise. We paid their daily service charges and bought an unlimited wifi package for all of us to share, but I told them anything else would be their responsibility. So they bought their own excursions, and souvenirs, and food in port, and extras on the ship ...

The last day of the cruise, my son moaned, "I can't believe how expensive this free cruise turned out to be!"

My accessible room on Oasis of the Seas didn't have an automatic door either - I think they are the exception rather than the rule. Otherwise it was a very nice balcony room, with enough space for my rented scooter, a small sofa as well as the bed, completely accessible bathroom, and even a little "hill" ramp so I could get my scooter or wheelchair onto the balcony if I had wanted to. Much more convenient than the uncomfortable bump-and-squeeze involved in getting in and out of my non-accessible suite on Norwegian Pearl.

> So I can't for the life of me understand

You really expect to understand government regulation? ;) And I am pretty sure it's an FAA reg, not airline. The airlines just implement the FAA regs, and of course they have a vested interest in not damaging their expensive planes.

That said, from what I have read (and bear in mind I am a nurse, NOT an engineer), it seems that the most risk of a Li battery-caused fire comes when the circuit the battery terminals are connected to close but can't actually do anything, such as a scooter trying to move forward but not able to because they are packed in among other luggage. To be honest, I don't understand why this is a greater danger with a Li battery than, say, a gel cell, but presumably the airline safety engineers understand it.

And don't worry, you aren't the person who continually posts incorrrect information. ;)

I agree that leaving her alone is just asking for trouble. There is an element of risk (as your other posts have shown you are well aware) simply in taking her on a cruise. Your plans to mitigate the risk as much as possible through planning and having equipment and trained people with her make sense to me. But adding another element of risk by leaving a person alone who has such significant health issues and also a tendency to noncompliance sounds to me like a really bad idea. (Of course, there is risk even in normal activities, but Robin is really in a different class.)

In addition, I would rethink whether the other "really young person" should come along or have any responsibility for Robin if she does. Her attitude does not inspire confidence that she understands just how serious Robin's condition is and what concessions Robin will need to make in order to enjoy a safe trip. You know her and none of us do, but I would be concerned that she would ignore that "unreasonable" restriction and look the other way so Robin could sneak off. (Especially if Robin has already lied to you when she said she was allowed to eat!)

Has anyone addressed the legal implications of Robin's bad decisions? Unless she has been declared mentally incompetent (which doesn't really sound justified), she has the right to do whatever she wants, and you and her other caregivers could be subject to civil penalties or even arrest for preventing her. I'm a nurse, not a lawyer, so you might want to discuss this with an attorney and/or the accessible desk at the cruise line. Again, you know Robin and none of us do, but from what you have posted, I'm wondering if she will agree to anything in order to get on the cruise ship and then insist on doing things that can endanger her life.

> Carnival has recently redefined their accessible cabin categories to make things clearer.

That is wonderful. Sure would be nice if other lines would follow suit.

Payitforward, unfortunately there are people who authoritatively deliver incorrect information. There are numerous regs regarding lithium ion batteries, and they can be confusing. But the bottom line looks, to me, like the regs are designed to prevent fires. In a secure attachment where the device can't be accidentally started, such as one requiring a key, it looks like the battery can travel in the cargo hold, and experienced supervisors have not directed me to remove the battery. In other models where, say, the device can be started without a key, I have heard of the owners being required to remove the battery. I would also make sure a rental scooter battery falls at or below the 300 watt limit for lithium-ion batteries if you want to fly with it. The section for built-in batteries is extremely unclear IMNSHO, and could be used either to permit or deny transporting a scooter with a higher-wattage battery. I was so careful about that limit that when I bought my scooter, I arranged for it to come with the 296-watt "travel battery" instead of the normal higher-capacity battery. And yes, the airline asked me how many watts it was!

> I have found the freedom a scooter provides to be WONDERFUL

I have to share what happened yesterday. I bought a 53-lb folding scooter last November with the goal of being able to load and unload it without help. Unfortunately, even that was too heavy for me and DH has had to do loading duty, although I'm independent once it is on the ground.

I have been working out at the Y to build up my strength and yesterday, for the first time EVER, I was able to unload and then load my scooter myself! I can now go wherever I want (that a scooter can go) even if DH can't come along! I AM SO THRILLED! And I bet those of you with mobility limitations know exactly how thrilled I am!

As ladylyn suggested, check with whoever you are renting from. But all the scooters I have seen are similar enough that I doubt you will have a problem if you are used to scooters at all. I was used to the grocery store electric "shopping carts" when I rented a scooter for the first time and didn't have any difficulty using it. The only thing that might take some adjusting is how you set the rental scooter's speed, some models use a dial or have a high/low button like my Triaxe.

Ladylyn - absolutely our abilities and desires differ. Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all wanted the same things? But I am glad you responded with your outlook, so the OP can apply whichever parts of our differing responses apply to her situation and make the best decision for her. (And I will be curious to see if you still think any regular mini-suite would have plenty of room for a scooter after you have cruised!)

> Not sure why you need the wheelchair if you plan on using a scooter.

I don't know about anyone else but here is why I took both scooter and wheelchair on my recent cruise.

- Some of the planned excursions didn't allow scooters

- DH was able to load our luggage onto the wheelchair while I rode the scooter - made the luggage easier to manage

- My scooter gives me independence but isn't comfortable for long periods. My wheelchair is much more comfortable to sit in, such as for shows

- As Professor says, I rode my scooter to the gate and checked my wheelchair as luggage

I used both scooter and wheelchair on the cruise, in different situations, and was very glad I had both with me.

And overall cost isn't the only consideration in the rent-vs-buy decision. As Professor says, you need to decide which scooter is right *for you* before buying. I started by knowing I wanted a scooter I could fold and unfold without help, and it had to be light enough to not need something to lift it in and out of the car, and even with those limitations I still had to decide between more than 10 possibilities! The $600 model wouldn't have worked for me, I wound up buying one that cost $2000. I completely agree that someone looking at frequent rentals should at least consider purchase, but the answer won't always be "buy." Although DH and I are both glad I did buy mine!

Always nice to hear that things worked out and you all had a great time!

> If all else fails duck into a store that's air conditioned

Just a caution - not all the stores in the Caribbean ports had air conditioning, in fact IIRC only about half did and many of the ones with AC had large open doors so the AC didn't have much effect. I'm not saying they aren't there but it won't necessarily be the closest one to you, you may have to hunt for one.

I understand not wanting to admit to yourself that you need a scooter. And it's hard to conceptualize just how big a cruise ship is and how much effort it would be to get around. Plus you want to retain as much mobility as you can for as long as you can. You may want to ask your doctor about exercises you can do to keep up muscles that won't get used much on board. I don't use scooter or wheelchair in my house, I walk. I try to walk into the stores that have electric carts. I work out at the local Y. But travelling is a different situation, and I've come to terms with the fact that I have limited energy and stamina and I want to reserve what I have for enjoyable activities when I travel. I don't want to insist on walking and then be too tired to enjoy shows or ports or just gabbing with friends. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the independence my folding scooter gives me, it was SO wonderful for DH not to have to push me through the airports or around the ship. Have a wonderful cruise!

> Afterall, how much time are we actually in the room?

The answer to this varies a LOT between cruisers. Many are on the go from morning to night and do fine with an inside room because they are hardly ever there. I spend a lot of time in the room because I don't like crowds and need a comfortable place to sit, which can be hard to find in popular areas. So this is not necessarily an argument for keeping the current room.

The amount of space isn't really as important as how it is set up. My BIL and SIL came on the cruise with us but in an accessible inside cabin, which was set up so there was ample room for her to get around in her wheelchair. (She refuses to use a scooter.) My cruise last month was in a 2-bedroom suite which was NOT accessible, and even though it was much larger than the mini-suite we had originally booked, getting the scooter in and out of the room was a challenge. (I knew it was not accessible when I bid on the upgrade, and I was prepared to deal with the problems for the sake of the other benefits - and I'm glad I did. But geting scooter/wheelchair in and out wasn't fun.) The mini-suite is larger than your balcony but it also has more furniture, not all movable. In contrast, our accessible balcony room on Oasis was a little larger than a typical balcony but set up so I could get everywhere I needed to and there was room for both my wheelchair and my rental scooter.

And no, personally I think whether you and your fellow travellers sleep in rooms near each other is not even close to the best part of travelling together. For me, the best part is spending time together - but not ALL the time. BIL/SIL's room was on the same corridor but literally at the other end of the ship. But you know what? BIL could push SIL's wheelchair to our room, my scooter and everyone else's feet got us to their room, and the phone worked great for planning where we were going to meet. We had lots of together time and enjoyed it. We also all had on-my-own time so we were still speaking to each other when the cruise was over. My opinion is that having a room she can get her scooter in and out of without effort is going to make more of a difference to her enjoyment of the trip than staying in a room close to her family.

My very first cruise ever was on Oasis in 2013. I STRONGLY urge you to rent a scooter. If you rely on a manual wheelchair, who is going to push it? If you, what will you do when you tire on that HUGE ship and you haven't gotten to the dining room or show venue? If your husband, do you really want him spending all his time pushing you around? Renting a scooter let me get around without tiring and without using up all my husband's time and energy. It even let us do some things separately, reflecting our different interests!

Healthy adults are not allowed to use the elevator for the muster drill, but people with disabilities are exempt from that rule. I don't remember how it was handled but I can guarantee I didn't take the stairs in 2013! (In the event of a true emergency, there is a special team of crew members who are designated to get any passengers who need assistance to the lifeboat.) In fact, the scooter is a help, since seeing you on it, the crew member guarding the elevator will know you can't use the stairs. Also, especially if you don't bring a personal wheelchair along, make sure you tell the airline and cruise line IN ADVANCE that you will need wheelchair transportation. I guarantee that if you tire easily, you won't make it through the airports and check-in walking!

Because Oasis is so huge, it doesn't feel crowded even when full. There are large communal areas like the park and several show venues, with multiple activities going on at any given time so it's not like all the passengers will converge on the same location. Also, my experience has been that MOST people are considerate of a person on a scooter, generally holding back for me to get on and off of elevators, for instance. Of course there are rude exceptions, but they are a small minority.

I'm not terribly heat sensitive but I don't like it. We booked a balcony for our Caribbean cruise and I hardly used it because of the heat. But our room stayed a comfortable temperature and so did the indoor venues. (The water show was outdoors.)

Check your local resale shops for an affordable wheelchair, if you want to have one around even if you don't bring it on the cruise. Wheelchairs get donated often and are usually quite cheap. Also, if you find a wheelchair you like, consider getting around via accessible taxi rather than your friends. If they are truly friends, they will understand that you need help and you need to be comfortable.

As a rule of thumb, only accessible rooms can reasonably be counted on to have room for a scooter. Space is too valuable on cruise ships to squander on less expensive rooms unless there is a pretty strong reason, such as being able to label them "accessible." If you need the scooter, IMNSHO you should switch to an accessible mini-suite.

> I need to travel with my wheelchair and so can't bring the scooter as well.

I just took both my manual wheelchair and my folding scooter on a cruise. DH loaded our luggage into my wc and I rode my scooter to the terminal, where we checked luggage and wheelchair and I rode my scooter to the gate. That worked quite well if you are more comfortable renting at home.

I also have seen very few negative comments about either of the rental companies that deliver to the ship. I rented from Care Vacations in 2013, before I bought my own, and everything was fine. Just be sure to get into your room as soon as you can and check out the scooter so IF there is a problem, you can call the company immediately and get things fixed before sailaway! Scooters by and large are quite reliable (as long as you keep them charged), I don't think I have EVER seen a report from anyone who had a rented scooter stop working during a cruise.

Personally, I prefer to do my own searches. It's easy enough to check the mass-market line websites and see what cruises are available for a particular route or time, and the cruise line reps have their own agenda and it isn't necessarily my benefit. ;) Doing it myself probably takes longer but picking the cruise is half the fun! Royal's website let me indicate I needed an accessible cabin and pick the exact room, Norwegian didn't so I had to call them to make the booking. (I don't use a TA, I did the first time and I had to go through her for everything and didn't get any benefits from using her. Second time I did it myself and making changes was MUCH easier. I might feel differently if I had a great TA like some members here do, but I didn't.)

Victoria2, thanks for your reply. Sounds like you have found a system that works for you, which is the bottom line. May it long continue! So far we haven't had to change planes during a trip, I am not sure if I would stick with the scooter if we did.

Good luck with your search. It's a big expense so finding the best fit for you is important IMNSHO. One other thing that I didn't know about when I bought mine, if your chosen scooter uses a key, and you take the key with you so the scooter can't be started in your absence, it looks like you won't have to remove the lithium-ion battery to fly. A TravelScoot owner said he has to remove his (TS does not use a key, just an on/off switch) and I've never had to remove mine (the Triaxe does use a key). Removing the battery usually isn't a big problem, but it's one more thing to do during a stressful day. Just wanted you to have the information.

Victoria, I'm curious why you don't want to use the scooter in the airport. I've flown twice this year and mine made a HUGE difference in trip difficulty. DH was able to just worry about managing his and my carryons because on my scooter, I am totally independent. I even was able to leave a tired DH seated with the carryons while *I* went hunting for the lounge! I drove it to the gate, folded it myself (my Triaxe is so easy to fold and unfold I can do it myself even though I can't stand very long - I think most of the folding scooters are also super easy), and walked to my seat. So far the airlines have been very good about handling my scooter. I do not put it in a protective case, but I noticed the tiller got knocked around just in the back of my car, so I attached a bungee cord to the frame with cable ties and bungee it together whenever I fold it. That does not affect the handle at the top (which protects the front wheel when it is opened) but keeps everything in line.

I completely agree with the Professor's recommendation to take your time. I found the following foldable scooters when I was shopping for mine last year: Triaxe Sport (which it what I wound up buying), Travelscoot, Smartscoot, Luggie, Solax Transformer, Geo Cruiser Elite (this is a powerchair), Di Blasi, Foldawheel, Heartway Passport, Rascal Auto-Go, Shoprider Scootie, Speedy, Tzora Lexis Light and Easy Travel Elite, and X-treme. There are probably more now. Some fold themselves with the push of a button. Some of these don't seem to be available in the U.S, which is where I live. They all have different strengths and weaknesses so you can see what will suit your own preferences.

Cats, I like to get there early, not so much for fear of delays as simply to get on board and start having fun! Even before we can get into our rooms, there is the ship to explore, starting with a tasty lunch. ;)

Rulersmom, there are all kinds of activities offered. We saied on the Pearl 2 weeks ago and there were games (I remember seeing Deal or No Deal and the Not-So-Newlywed Game), karaoke, several eras of Name That Tune, bridge, several days of art auction, dance lessons, dances, lectures on different Alaska topics, and I don't remember what all else. And there is always something open to eat at! lol

I was astounded that we got the upgrade to a suite with my minimum bid. The minisuite I originally booked would have been tolerable but very cozy. With 4 adults in the room, the extra space and furniture of the suite made a big difference!

> your cell phone plan from home will work fine.

This is not necessarily true, depending on your carrier. My son uses Verizon and I think he had full coverage almost everywhere. I am with T-Mobile and I had talk & text but no data once we left Seattle. My husband is on TracFone and he never has data (dumb phone) and only had a voice connection at a couple of the ports (sorry, don't remember which one). Best thing to do is check with your carrier.

Congrats, Cats! Did you go for the oceanview guarantee? Do head over to the Alaska board if you haven't already, there are tons of threads going about all the ports you will stop at, and you can get advice on going from Seward to Anchorage as well. Look at Alaska Airlines to get from Seward to wherever your round trip will fly from, they have reasonable one-way prices and claim the best on-time record in the industry.