jake 26

18 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Not saying done deal but will leave this link here: https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/norse-atlantic-attracts-charter-interest-after-antarctica-flight

 

There has also been interest, suspected to be Virgin, to aquire a significant interest.

That looks promising. Similar sized Dreamliner fleet as TUI

29 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Agreed.

 

Its not that simple. Tui keep most of their long haul aircraft available for P&O at weekends during the winter. During the week, they fly them for their own customers to the Middle East, Far East and the Caribbean. These planes are in use 13 days out of 14 with day 14 being maintenance.

 

So you're aware of the sheer number of planes that were retired during the Covid period which has stripped all the spare aircraft out of the major airlines, in order to avoid them going bust. BA gave up their B747 fleet, and have not long brought their last A380 back into serice, Virgin gave up their B747s and A332s. Tui parked up a number of their Dreamliners and only have this season brought the last back into service.

 

2024 is where new deliveries for BA and Virgin will add a little slack back into the fleet programs. It was not expected that airtravel would recover so quickly - those doomsayers were wrong.

 

I've heard rumours of BA, Virgin and Norse (formerly Norwegian) being used.

Some interesting views and facts being presented.

I am wondering, however, with Arvia and Britannia being in the Caribbean together with a possible total of 8,000 pax, so 4,000 turn round each week, how sustainable that is, given 3 aircraft per 1,000 thus 12 aircraft needed for a return flight. That is almost equal to the whole TUI 787 (Dreamliner) fleet.

Given the arguments I accept long haul aircraft are scarcer than what they were, so the requirements for 240 aircraft to fly 2 transatlantic legs over the 20 week Caribbean season. and there will be delays, tech probs, does make me think it's not sustainable

18 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Hi Jake thanks for your reply. Am no more worried re safety than I was many moons ago .... ha ha .. I will always revert to prayer at take off and landing 😀

Just wondering if you think things are worse or better in terms of planes having to be diverted as airlines are stretched.

I honestly don't think there is a change, maybe better utilisation

2 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Is that the same now or it is worse in your opinion?

Flying is extremely safe, and the aviation industry works hard with one another to ensure that integrity is maintained. I'm sure Maleth is as safe as most and it's a shame their staff are having to put up with criticism. I think safety levels are maintained and improved all the time.

8 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

There are not enough planes around for P&O to acquire replacements. This has come about after the plans for Arvia in the Caribbean. 

If you say so. I've worked in air traffic control for 30 years and it's amazing what can happen if needs must.

2 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

I refer too Gettingwarmer post and others. They can not put plans in place if no aircrafts are spare they did what they could to get Maleth Aero. From experience if a problem occurs P&O will do the best to get you out or back but in terms of a flight going tech the airline are in charge to find another aircraft or company to take you. If they cancel then P&O step in like they did they managed to book people onto a Virgin Atlantic flight at very short notice because the outbound aircraft was too small. P&O can't do anything over replacement aircrafts where do you expect them to get crews etc that is down to the airline. 

 

If P&O had an airline then it would be down to P&O to sort.

So you agree that P&O have put 2 large ships in the Caribbean but have not got a comprehensive flight contract to deal with problems that occur. You say P&O can't do this or that, doesn't sound good for the customer.

I respect you are a big P&O fan and see no faults. We've had some wonderful cruises worldwide with them but I am a pragmatist and realise that sometimes if it's not working properly something is being done badly. 

I feel that the emphasis is to fill the ships even if the infrastructure to transport the flying pax is inadequate. Like Paul Ludlow ' 99% are happy'

4 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

I feel like you are missing the point. How can P&O change what happens with airline delays? Delays are out of P&O's control. They need to address weather problems, technical problems how exactly can they do that. From what I understand the initial departure time was 4am but further delays occurred. People looking at Flightradar and Flightaware saw it had been pushed back. These sites are good but can wrong. Companies won't look at these sites they will wait for official confirmation instead. 

With respect I think it is you who is missing the point. P& O have considerably increased their need for more long haul charter flights by putting Arvia in the Caribbean with Britannia.

It seems that the flight structure they've put in place is inadequate in terms of contingency, as more flights means that the likelihood of the delays and technical problems affecting cruise passengers increases by the same margin. Delays and tech problems cause knock on delays. To deal with that contingency plans are needed which provide replacement aircraft,  as often happens with most airlines. P&O do not have those contingency plans it appears.

I fully accept P&O cannot control delays but they can put plans in place to mitigate them.

51 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Delays is quite common over in the Caribbean you just need to look at TUI they have the same problem not has big but has been known to suffer. Thomas Cook did demise before covid but what you have to remember ships were not operating neither were flights, well skeleton flights were so they could keep slots during covid then the world opened up slowly, eventually this was bound to happen. They were lucky to get Virgin Atlantic last year things may have been different if the pandemic had never happened. TUI did not have enough aircrafts before the pandemic they had to wet lease Wamos and people were delayed 24hrs so crew could rest. People were moaning last year they were flying Virgin Atlantic instead of BA. Every year people moan about flights in someway shape or form.

Yes aircraft delays are common in the Caribbean during the season, but that is one of the factors that P&O would need to address when they dramatically increased their charter flight requirements when they added a ship with the passenger capacity of Arvia. It seems to me their flight planning department is nowhere capable, and yet it was always very good.

7 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

You seem to forget that airline capacity was drastically reduced during covid, and all airlines are struggling to cope with the current demand, and P&O's planned increased capacity was all pre covid. Following the demise of Thomas Cook, P&O were mainly using TUI, with Virgin picking up the slack, however both of those airlines are struggling to meet their own increased demand, as a result P&O had to find an alternative at relatively short notice. Rather than criticising them you ought to be grateful that they succeeded, rather than cancelling a slew of bookings.

I am sure that neither P&O or Maleth intentionally created the problems they have encountered, but hopefully the rest of this winter Caribbean season will now run more smoothly.

Judging by the delays and dissatisfaction being aired on different sites I can't agree they have successfully addressed the problems, I can only see it snowballing, and the poor Maleth staff will suffer more undeserved vitriol because of bad P&O planning.(easy to blame covid).

They have increasingly relied on TUI (Cook's demise was way before covid), but by vastly increasing cruise capacity with Arvia there was no way that TUI could supply sufficient long haul flights, so it should have been recognised early as a major factor that additional flight capacity was needed.

I'm not sure that I should be grateful as I am not affected,  but if I was one of those who are affected I wouldn't be patting P&O on the back as you suggest.

Having had many P&O cruises worldwide over the past 20+ years I have always recognised them as a good reliable organisation, but in this instance they are certainly not living up to that.

It seems that P&O have made a total mess of this in the planning for the 23/24  Caribbean season with ship passenger capacity in excess of 8,000. Surely the logistics of transporting 4,000 people weekly to and from the Caribbean on an 8/9 hour flight must have been high on the 'most important' agenda, factoring in contingency for delays and technical issues. It appears that the transportation planning was more likely a side issue.

I may be wrong but I can't think of any other cruise line who operate large capacity Caribbean cruises, like Arvia and Britannia are doing, who charter aircraft to fly pax on a 17 hour round trip to join and leave the ship. Most of the ships in the Caribbean are ex US, and thus many flights are internal US scheduled. 

I feel sorry for the staff of Maleth because they are probably doing their best, but on a hiding to nothing because P&O have put them in an invidious position where they are the scapegoats for any shortfall of expectations, or any technical failures.

P&O need to sort themselves out very quickly.

Great information all, thank you. I think a taxi there and walk back!!

26 minutes ago, happy v said:

Check your departure time. I was going to do this but the ship left early afternoon. The ship excursion was for 1pm. Which is far too early for tea

Agreed. Azura is scheduled for an evening departure which is normally 6pm

7 minutes ago, sleepingcat said:

Hi neighbour. Reids is walkable from the cruise docks if you are a reasonable walker, but for a special occasion you might prefer to arrive in a taxi as you suggest. we hope to be overnight in Funchal in January (with umm an other cruise line) and I m still trying to get to Reids for the tea, so if we do I will report........

Well, thank you neighbour. We may walk it as it'll give us an appetite before and we can walk it off a bit afterwards! I look forward to your report of you manage to go.

11 minutes ago, lincslady said:

I don't know if there might be a ship excursion for tea at Reids, but I have heard that if you are just part of a group booking you are not in the main room for aftenoon tea, but somewhere much less attractive.  So your idea of doing an individual booking would seem to be the right way to get the full works.

Yes, thanks for your comment, I agree. We've had experience of ship group bookings before and you're right, there is not the individual experience in terms of personal service, and private table.

We are on an Azura cruise next year marking a significant birthday which falls on the day we are in Funchal. 20 years ago we celebrated that day with Tea at the Ritz. We are thinking of booking the Tea at Reid's. We've been to Funchal quite a few times but never visited Reid's Hotel, which was one of Churchill's favourite hotels apparently.

Has anyone partaken of Tea at Reid's and how good was it as an experience?

We intend to book it online, and presume a taxi will be required to get there.

An interesting name change😇

I turned up to play at Teignmouth Golf Club this morning (800 ft up) and heard a ship's horn. Looked through the misty haze and could just make out Arcadia off Babbacombe. Very clear to see later.

Although she was a familiar sight during the pandemic it was great to see her again on such a beautiful Jubilee day.  Brought back wonderful memories of our time on her in so many fabulous places from Sydney to Alaska, Seattle to Cape Town and beyond. I do hope she is brought back to service.

53 minutes ago, scarlet ohara said:

I think the age supplement is for over 70’s, not over 65. I’ve just checked as I’ve just had my 65th birthday and didn’t have to pay any (more) extra

I'm sure you're right, I've lost track of my age!!😁😁

I echo the above comments regarding Nationwide Flex Plus. We've had the account for quite a few years. We've claimed once, for a world sector cancellation following a cancer diagnosis and it was paid promptly.

There is an over 65 supplement of £65 covering both of us, and certain health conditions carry extra supplements but nothing outrageous. You have to confirm your medical conditions annually for renewal.

The policy coverage is very good and gives peace of mind particularly as it's worldwide.

There is also the 10 year rule when entering the EU. Your passport must not be older than 10 years from when it was last renewed. Many UK passport holders had added extra months if they renewed early so the passport may run for many months over 10 years.

My passport was renewed in Sept 2012 but the expiry date is May 2023. When I checked for EU use and applied the 6 month validity rule it had to be renewed by March 2022, so about 14 months before the stated expiry date. I've just renewed it.

1 hour ago, NoFlyGuy said:

Important Notice:  Validity of vaccine certificate issued by the Maltese Authorities – effective 17th January 2022

A valid vaccine certificate issued by the Maltese Authorities is defined as follows: 
For Adults aged 18 years and over:

 - primary schedule with last dose administered not more than 3 months previously 

    OR

 - primary schedule and booster with last dose of booster administered not more than 9 months previously
 

For under 18 years:

 - primary schedule

 

Reading this for Malta it would imply that you would need to be boosted at least every 9 months.

That could have a big impact on Azura's summer program fly cruises from Malta.

4 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

We booked on board for next year's TA in October on ariva ?  the price was below £4000

6K seems high. The TA is always significantly cheaper than the post Christmas Caribbean.

Even cheaper if you're going by bus. 😁😁, sorry, couldn't resist it!

I don't understand the confusion about off loading pax who are confirmed with Covid.

One of the biggest problems the NHS has faced from the start is how quickly an infected person can go from poorly to critical and requiring major medical intervention.

Ships are simply not equipped to deal with such a scenario particularly if it is an outbreak affecting a number of people.

The safest solution is surely to transfer victims to a quarantine facility from where they can be transferred to hospital if their condition deteriorates.

Quarantine cabins, as I understand it, are to isolate positive tested persons until a transfer can take place, or to isolate close contacts of a positive case. 

30 minutes ago, watsonbeau said:

 

 

Following post from Swanseasailor, I will also ask what happens if both are negative but are deemed a close contact of someone else, eg from a bubble excursion, so are then ejected off the ship to quarantine ashore.

 

 

But if you have been double vaccinated and have tested negative you do not have to quarantine after being in close contact with positive case. UK track and trace rules.

Someone has posted elsewhere that all on board Britannia are being PCR tested over the next 2 days. Seems like a sensible precaution as they can disembark (into quarantine) in Madeira any positive cases before the transatlantic leg to the Caribbean.