mabt

9 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Royal Caribbean has made a further update on its vaccine protocols for cruises departing the U.S. the cruise line will now accept mixed series of mRNA vaccines after updated guidance from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

It's nice that Royal Caribbean has finally caught up to some of the other cruise lines that have been allowing mixed mRNA doses pretty much all along, based on the exact same CDC guidance.

This also bodes well for Canadians with mixed mRNA doses who want to enter the US for any reason, once the new vaccination requirements come into effect.

Now if they could just sort out the AstraZeneca situation...

20 hours ago, Steeler Nation At Sea said:

Doesn't seem likely that even if you found the dispenser, it would be self service now.

Reasonable guess, but actually it was self-serve a couple of weeks ago, in the beverage area at Chill Grill.  Not that I used it - I'm not a beer drinker - but it was there, screen was on, and no staff "guarding" it.

Beverages in general (water/juice/pop) were self-serve at Chill Grill while we were there.  Ice cream was staffed, as were beverages at the Snack Shack in the thrill park.  YMMV.

I don't know about your particular cruise, but in general, there have been lots of reports of low bids being accepted lately.

Ours was... but then our cruise was only at about 12% capacity.

The risks around cruising right now are less about catching COVID itself, and more about your travel plans being disrupted because of shifting COVID protocols.

If you are uncomfortable with the idea that almost anything could change, without warning, possibly forcing you to cancel your cruise, then a land vacation might be a better bet for you.  Although it's worth pointing out that even with land vacations, nothing is certain.

We are leaving for our cruise tomorrow.  In the six weeks since I booked it, we have had to deal with one of us magically becoming "unvaccinated" (that is, I was vaccinated according to their policy at the time I booked, and then suddenly I wasn't), uncertainty around the border reopening (we also planned to drive to New Jersey "if the border reopened" - it didn't), and a significant change in on-board protocols (we booked with the understanding that the cruise would be mask-free; there is now an indoor mask mandate).

And then there's the paperwork.  I have an entire duotang filled with printed travel documents for my family: travel attestation forms for our flight to New York, vaccination records, negative test results, Bahamian Health Visas.  Not to mention the mild anxiety over test results; I was fully confident that none of us actually have COVID, but false positives on antigen tests have been known to happen, and the consequences for our cruise if it did were not good.  (Luckily, all negative.)

Point is, I am stubborn and determined enough to roll with the changes and find a way to make it work - although I'm not sure I'll really believe we're going until we're actually on the ship!  But for most people, the stress is probably not worth it.

11 minutes ago, Vancouver-Cruiser said:

Yes, I referred to the exceptions. I ignored nothing. I’m simply pointing out that it’s reasonable that some cruise lines follow a strict interpretation and prohibit any mixed doses. Otherwise they might be in a position to ask if one meets the exceptions. It’s the CDC that is being unreasonable. 

Agree to disagree.

3 hours ago, Vancouver-Cruiser said:

From the CDC site:

 

“However, COVID-19 vaccines are not interchangeable.

mRNA COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna)

Data on the safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product.”
 

They consider you fully vaccinated with mixed mRNA only if you meet a couple of exceptions. Good luck trying to convince a cruise line that you meet those exceptions. 

No.  There are a couple of "exceptional situations" in which they recommend proceeding with mixed mRNA doses.  The exception conditions, for what little it's worth, are exactly the conditions under which most Canadians received mixed mRNA doses (namely, the unavailability of a second dose of the original product leading to a vaccination interval longer than 48 days).

Regardless of the reason why you've received mixed doses, you're considered fully vaccinated.  You can't just quote the first sentence of the paragraph and then go on to ignore the rest.

"If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine."

These guidelines were not written to inform public policy.  If you're an American vaccine administrator following the CDC clinical guidelines, which is the intended audience, then the described situations or "inadvertent" cover all possible scenarios.  You're either following the guidelines, or you're not.  If you're not, then the document is moot.  The point is that if someone shows up in your clinic and has already has two different mRNA doses, regardless of the reason, they are considered "fully vaccinated", clinically speaking, and you shouldn't give them another dose.

At this point it's all kind of irrelevant in the context of the cruise lines' policies though.  They are all pointing to the same set of guidelines, and drawing different conclusions, or somehow getting different answers from the CDC.

Probably the same as when we ask the cruise lines to clarify their policies and the answers are all over the place.  The answer depends on when, how, and to whom the question is asked.

21 minutes ago, Vancouver-Cruiser said:

Unfortunately, the CDC doesn’t agree with you. 

Well, the CDC actually does agree that mixed mRNA doses are to be considered fully vaccinated.  They are quite clear about that in their clinical considerations guidelines.

But for some reason some (not all) of the cruise lines seem to have gotten a different memo.

3 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I don't believe any cruise line is accepting mixed mRNA vaccinations, despite what the CDC has said. Possibly because some ports do not accept mixed mRNA.

It varies.

DCL is explicit: "Guests who have received one dose of Moderna and one dose of Pfizer are considered fully vaccinated, per CDC guidelines."

(Funny how Royal Caribbean cites those very same guidelines as the reason they don't accept mixed mRNA doses, but I digress.)

Princess also considers mixed mRNA to be fully vaccinated.

NCL and RCCL say no to mixed mRNA for US departures, but yes for non-US departures, with the caveat on Royal of specific allowable intervals that seems to be RCCL's very own made-up requirement.

Haven't checked the others.

5 hours ago, K_e_short said:

 

 

Thank you for posting about the 84 days for AZ/mRNA mixes. I've only been looking at Carnival and Cunard so hadn't seen rccl policy.

Of course the CDC isn't in charge of non US ports so even more confusion as to why it's 84 days for mixing 🙂

The short answer to that is that Royal Caribbean is making it up.

I assume that it is roughly based on manufacturer's recommended intervals, but they're not enforcing the same recommendations for same-manufacturer doses, and the manufacturer's recommendations don't apply to mixed doses anyway, so... it's basically arbitrary.

But pointing this out to them does not seem to have had any effect, so we're rolling with it.  🙃

38 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. both in this thread and others. Very much appreciated.

 

I am wondering why they were looking at the date of both doses, considering the interval between the two doesn't matter.. and it's really only the 2nd dose date that is important (14 days before the cruise).

Standardized system, maybe?  The interval doesn't matter for US cruises or same-manufacturer doses, but RCL's policy on mixed doses out of non-US ports does still come with an interval restriction (unfortunately).  Likely they're just using a software system that requires both to be recorded?

58 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

I am from Ontario and just disembarked the Odyssey two days ago.  I have posted detailed info on vaccination documentation, and how thoroughly they checked it at the port, in a couple of other threads here under the Canadian Cruisers section.  Check those out for detailed answers that you are looking for. (I just do not want to retype it all here again)

Found this post, thanks!  I was trying for a single thread where people could find this information across cruise lines, but I'm not at all surprised that it has ended up in a related thread instead. 🙂  Sounds like you had a great trip; glad to hear it.

We test tomorrow for departure from Nassau on Saturday.  Fingers crossed all goes smoothly!

13 hours ago, archer_310 said:

 

Are you referring to 1st and 2nd doses?  Or are you saying that I could just go to NB or NS and say I wanted a Moderna dose and they would give it to me no questions asked?

I would say most likely any other province, although I can't speak to it firsthand.  But all provinces have been giving vaccines to any resident, temporary or otherwise, with or without health coverage in the province.  The last thing they want is to exclude or discourage someone from getting vaccinated just because they aren't locally documented.

Just don't tell them it's a third dose.

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Yet some have posted that in Montreal there were no questions asked. Maybe they are just more careful in the Outaouais area, knowing all those sneaky Ontarians would try to take advantage! 😇

Could be.  A friend in Montreal who still carries Ontario ID told me that they were utterly uninterested in her proof of residency, but that was for the first two shots.  All I can say for sure is that in Gatineau I had to pull out that lease at least three times!

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

As Québec has established an "official" 3rd dose program, it has governing rules. You must be a resident or work there, but how carefully they check is another question.

They check.  At least in Gatineau.  I had "proof" of residency in the form of a signed and valid lease agreement. 

2 hours ago, exm said:

No big deal at all, never waited for longer than a minute at most.

Thanks so much, that's very helpful.  Enjoy the rest of your trip!

4 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

I know this may be late bit late but in NB and NS (I assumed all provinces were the same) as long as you had proof you were a Canadian citizen, they would give you a vaccine. In fact, I know a guy who travelled to NS for this very reason and successfully got a 3rd dose. I stopped by Costco the other day and asked them if they'd give one to a "friend" who is here from another province and what he'd need to get it. A form of government ID is all they want.  

This is not the route I took, in the end, but it was one I seriously considered.  The whole reason I ended up with mixed doses, against my better judgement, was so that I would be fully vaccinated in time to travel to Nova Scotia earlier this month.  Otherwise, I would have just waited a few weeks until I was sure Pfizer was available.

I'm almost certain that if I had walked into a clinic in Nova Scotia while I was there, told them that I was a temporary resident (true, depending on how you want to define it), that I'd had a first dose in Ontario in May, and that wanted another shot, they would have given it to me.  The provinces do not have the means to directly share medical information, so there would be no way for one province to know if someone had already had a second shot in another jurisdiction, unless you told them.

And yes, I think this would work in any province.  Where it would probably not work is for those of us in Ottawa, or other border communities, simply driving a short distance across the border.  Pretty sure if I tried that in Gatineau, they would just tell me to go home and get my shot in Ontario.  😉

1 hour ago, exm said:

The water park was so much fun: kiddos loved the wave pool A LOT! Slides were awesome as well, the tallest slide really isn’t that scary. Just a long way up. Our cabana server was great (but so is everyone else on the ship).

 

Spoke with some folks from Freedom, and heard a horror story of a lady who had a B2B with an unvaccinated child. She booked it in April and learned during her 4 day cruise that she can’t do B2B with her kid: he was tested negative this morning but for some reason rules have changed and they don’t allow unvaccinated to do B2B. They did offer here to rebook the second “leg” to Cape Canaveral though. So B2B on the same ship is a no-go but going from Miami to CC “B2B” is okay? Sorry Royal, can’t follow the logic especially since the kid was tested this morning.

 

Anyways, tomorrow another Perfect Day. Here’s a lobby picture for you folks. Good night (not for me ;))

Thanks for the feedback on the water park, glad you had such a good time!  How were the lines with Freedom in port at the same time?

Even with two ships I'm sure the island is relatively empty, but I was expecting that Adventure would be in port alone for both days next week, and just tonight realized that Freedom is scheduled to be there on the second day as well.  Of course it is the day I booked for the water park.  Trying to decide if I should bother trying to move our reservation to the first day, when I believe Adventure will be there alone.

9 hours ago, K_e_short said:

 

I didn't say it was logical 🙂

 

 

I didn't mean your logic, just to be clear.  I meant the US federal government's logic, or lack of logic, in keeping the border closed.

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

I fail to see the logic in thinking the only reason the US-Canada land border is closed to regular traffic is to keep the US-Mexico border closed.

 

Substantially less traffic moves by plane. The issue is pandemic mitigation. The goal is to minimize transmission without crippling an economy.

I fail to see their logic, period.

If I had to guess, I'm not sure they really want to require, validate, or enforce vaccinations of any sort for entry.  But they also won't want to just open the land border to everyone, regardless of vaccination status, especially when most other countries are requiring vaccination.  That would be bad optics for a president who wants to be seen as taking the pandemic seriously.

I could be completely off-base, but IMO it makes at least as much sense as any other theory I've heard.  I've been following this pretty closely for the past couple of months, since it would have saved my family a couple thousand dollars if we could have driven to New Jersey next week.  But there's not much to follow.  There will of course be people in government who actually know why they are doing this, but they're not talking.

Let me guess.  Sunny and a high of 28C (80F).  😄

30 minutes ago, pcur said:

Is it just me, or is there a big elephant in this thread that no one is talking about:  COVID 19?

 

Vaccinated people can carry it, might get mildly sick, and pass it along to unvaccinated people, who can get VERY, VERY, VERY sick, if not die.

 

So, what's being describe in this thread seems to me the usual precautions that we are supposed to take until there are more vaccinated people, and we are all "booster" shot, and we know the COVID mutations can be handled.

 

I go anywhere around people I don't know, don't know where they've been, and don't know if they've been vaccinated, I wear a mask. 

 

I was on the Monarch mid-January to mid-Feb 2020, sailing from what turned out to be a hotspot, on a packed ship.  I got pneumonia.  I will never know if it was COVID, as they weren't really testing for it yet, but I was sick and recuperatng for months.  So, wearing a mask is now keeping me safe along with my vaccine.  Don't want to go through that 2020 cruise experience again.

 

But, I do have 6 cruises booked, and me and my masks can't wait!!

 

And you are, of course, more than welcome to wear your masks wherever you want, for as long as you want.  (I mean that genuinely, not trying to be snarky.)

But almost everyone who booked one of these Nassau cruises did so with the expectation that masks would not be required, and I expect that for many of them - certainly my family - that was a primary factor in selecting this particular cruise, or maybe choosing to cruise at all.  So we're talking about a population of people who were, at least at the time they booked, very comfortable with the idea of cruising maskless, with whatever COVID-19 risk that entails.  Which, for most children and vaccinated adults, is minimal.

We would not have booked this cruise if the masking requirement was in place at the time.  Likely would not even have looked twice.  We've decided to continue with our cruise despite the masks, in part because of reports in this thread and others that have been mostly in agreement that the masks were not a big deal, and frequently not required.  So thanks to everyone who contributed!

1 minute ago, Vancouver-Cruiser said:

I’m not worried about blood clots. We took the AstraZeneca after all. But your point is a more significant one. If we get J&J, then rules change to require two doses, we wouldn’t be able to get the second dose in Canada. Maybe we should just stick with Moderna and hope our first AZ dose doesn’t taint us.

 

I just wish the BC government would follow Quebec and Saskatchewan’s lead and give us a choice. Our late September Alaska cruise is unlikely. And now that the United Kingdom doesn’t accept mixed doses, our fall visit is at risk. 

This whole thing is just so totally ridiculous.  I genuinely hope that whatever you do works out though.

My guess is the whole "we're only going to look at your first two doses" nonsense will blow over fairly quickly.  The alternative is to say that someone who had two mixed doses originally, for any reason, is just considered unvaccinated for the rest of all time, or at least until they arbitrarily change their minds (again).  No recourse.  That seems a bit extreme, even considering recent questionable decisions by the CDC.

For what it worth, the CDC clinical considerations guidelines state that those who received a vaccine not authorized for use by the FDA, but authorized by the WHO, may be offered "a complete, FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine series".  This would seem to cover the mixed AZ / mRNA scenario, with an additional, matching mRNA dose "completing the series".  But we already know that the CDC is ignoring their own advice (in the same document) on whether those with mixed mRNA doses should be considered fully vaccinated, at least as it applies to cruise ships, so my confidence level that they will follow their own guidelines in this case is not high.

1 minute ago, Airbalancer said:

I wouldn’t get J&J , it is just bad as AZ for blood clots 

Also the US is already talking about J&J recipients needing extra doses, which really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.  And if they do, no doubt the requirement will be for two doses of J&J, specifically.  The Canadian federal government recently announced that we would be donating all of our contracted J&J doses, so if it came to needing a second one, it would (still) have to be in the US.

All of this is speculative, of course, but the point is still that there really is no sure bet right now.  The rules are arbitrary and therefore unpredictable.

By now we should be starting to see some Canadian CruiseCritic members returning from recent cruises.  Can anyone share their experiences with Canadian provincial vaccination documentation at the port?

eg. Any issues, are they asking to see individual proof of each dose, accepting both digital and printed documentation, etc?

I'm most interested in Royal Caribbean, but I'm sure others would like to hear the situation with other lines too.  All reports are very welcome!

13 minutes ago, Vancouver-Cruiser said:

Our plan was to drive across the border, when possible, and get Moderna as the third, since we had Moderna as second dose. Given the above I think we should get J&J to be safe. 

I don't think there's any such thing as "safe", since none of the policies make any logical sense.

But I also think this third dose question was a non-issue, and would probably have remained that way if people hadn't asked.  Now?  Who knows.