Bongomauka

On 1/18/2024 at 8:10 AM, S4POPO said:

I am still trying to wrap my head around the issue.  Are you saying that the insurance company will reimburse you ~$100k simply with proof of Oceania paying the medivac bill?  Without the costs being passed on to you (via separate bill from Oceania)?  In this scenario, you make a pretty penny if Oceania never bills you.  I apologize if this was discussed in a previous post and I missed something.

Sorry for the confusion. Our primary healthcare insurance provider will reimburse Oceania directly, not us. We received a bill through Oceania’s third party insurance processor but was told by the agent not to pay it directly as he couldn’t guarantee that we would get a receipt that we would need to get reimbursed ourselves. BTW it was another cruise payment more than $100K, hence our stress level. 

12 hours ago, samiam0403 said:

I feel bad for not saying this earlier, but I'm glad the MEDEVAC had a good outcome - health-wise! I was on the Marina when it happened and definitely sent up some prayers for y'all!

 

I've been reading as much as I can to try to figure out the legality of them sending a bill - everything I'm seeing says that a signatory to the IMO Conventions (and Portugal is one) won't charge for a rescue. Sadly, since I'm no longer at the job, I don't have access to some of the UN documents that would spell that out. I've put in a request with some contacts at my old unit for the exact document and phrasing - will pass it along if/when I hear anything back. 

Now I remember you from the Marina roll call. How is your new life in Paris? I hope the move was as painless and seamless as you’d hoped. 

2 hours ago, samiam0403 said:

I'm still reading through this thread, and I too am SHOCKED that OP received a bill for a military MEDEVAC. Up until 2022, I spent 8 years, as active duty and then civilian, coordinating exactly this type of rescue (quite a few on cruise ships, fishing vessels, tankers etc), and the objectives are never billed for these rescues. I'm half tempted to start digging into the UN documentation that I've trained on, because I am stunned.

Thank you for post samian0403. Looks like I missed your original posting until your second posting of it with the recent comment, sorry about that. No we did not receive a bill directly from the Portuguese Air Force but received a copy of it from Oceania/NCL Holdings. If we did, that would have simplified the whole process as we would have paid it and made a claim to our 3 insurance policies which would have covered some or all of it. It then would have been settled many less stressful months ago. BTW the bill for the Medivac was north of $100,000 so continue to be stunned as we are we even less experience in these matters as yourself.

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Not unusual for cruise lines to work through their port agents for in country items.  Just trying to figure out why they cannot easily generate an invoice for the amount.

From your mouth to God’s ears. 

7 hours ago, Cali Hawaiian said:

So sorry you and your partner went through this.  Can’t be easy to go through the trauma of seeing a loved one being medevaced away from you, then coming home to deal with this type of situation.  I always assumed that the toughest part would be dealing with the insurance company, never the cruise line.  That’s a shock.  Given the size of the claim, if they did pay it, you’d think they’d have better accounting.  Can’t be the first time Oceania has had to deal with a situation like this.  For a company that tries to sell you on service, to make you make this long and put you in jeopardy of losing 3 different types of insurance over what should be simple documentation is unconscionable.  We wish you well.

Thank you for sharing your kind words and thoughts. I can’t imagine someone older than us surviving both ordeals one after another. 

7 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too.

 

Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer.

 

Then you've started the clock on time!

 

What a mess (understatement!

(Note:  I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points.  Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something.  You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!)

GC

7 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too.

 

Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer.

 

Then you've started the clock on time!

 

What a mess (understatement!

(Note:  I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points.  Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something.  You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!)

GC

 Thanks for your support and suggestions. My head is constantly spinning with all the details and I have experienced the whole process so expecting someone else to grasp the whole mess would be wishful thinking. 

7 hours ago, TRLD said:

Has  Oceania's third party insurance processor ever said why they are even involved?  In there experience is this the normal way Oceania and NCLH handles these claims?

 

The only thing that I keep coming back to is that Oceania sent it to their 3rd party processor, the 3rd part processor paid the PAF and started working with you.  Thus setting up the situation that Oceana cannot invoice you because you do not have an open balance with them since they did not directly pay the PAF.  Their third party insurance processor cannot invoice you because you do not have a policy with them.  Oceania cannot say that they paid the invoice because they did not pay it directly.

Thanks for spending some of your precious time considering our plight. You may be right about all it but let me put in a detail here that would make your eyes roll. Apparently Oceania/NCL Holdings didn’t pay the bill directly, they instead paid a port management company named Intercruise the monies and they in turn paid the Portuguese Air Force. How’s that for a long paper trail?

8 minutes ago, TRLD said:

You commented that most of your discussions with Oceania have been through their normal travel insurance provider.  Were you told to send payment to them, or to Oceania or to NCLH?

 

Still trying to figure out why they have been your primary contact point.  Most other people that I know that have been through this kind of situation (not many but a few) with other cruise lines have worked directly with the cruise line itself, and the only time the cruise lines recommended insurance provider have been involved have been when they had purchased one of their policies.  Those that had third party coverage worked directly with the cruise line.

Thank you for sticking with this. In answer to your question, No, were not told to send payment from either Oceania or NCLH, in fact the third party agent recommended against that as he could not guarantee we would get a receipt to present to our insurance companies for reimbursement. Neither of our insurance policies are through the cruise line but rather our own health insurance carrier and our traveler insurance independently purchased through our travel agent. We were told that a third party insurance processor is handling our claim and the confusion they had and miscommunication with the cruise line no doubt was not helpful in our quest for a resolution. Now it's just an issue of our getting a receipt of some kind from Oceania/NCL Holdings demonstrating they paid the bill.

17 hours ago, Psoque said:

I hope this gets resolved soon.  My concern, however, is that your Kaiser Permanente Medicare Advantage Plan (I’m assuming) may not really cover (part or all) of the cost of overseas ambulance/evacuation, since the original Medicare certainly does not.  It’s possible that submission of this critical document may result in just official denial of coverage.  I know for a fact that insurers are not required to give their customer a guarantee of coverage until they are about to make their decision.

 

However, if your Medical Advantage Plan covers it, that’s great.  If not, you will then have to go to your secondary insurance companies, whichever volunteers to be the next one.

 

I don’t envy your position.  Our interaction with our primary travel insurance plan was much easier, and we are grate for that.

Sorry, I forgot to address your comment regarding our secondary insurance, Generali, which has taken a secondary claim position since this is a medical claim. Our dealings with them have bee relatively pain free and we no complaints about their service and response level. Even if Kaiser denies the claim due to their own judgement or because Oceania/NCL Holdings is not forthcoming with adequate documentation, we may have run out of time since the window for filing a claim for both Kaiser and Generali is one year. You'd think a whole year would be plenty of time but with all the foot dragging, misinformation, misdirection, and outright lies, we are actually surprised we are this far along. The looming deadline is what keeps us up at night. Thanks for your support.

7 hours ago, Psoque said:

I hope this gets resolved soon.  My concern, however, is that your Kaiser Permanente Medicare Advantage Plan (I’m assuming) may not really cover (part or all) of the cost of overseas ambulance/evacuation, since the original Medicare certainly does not.  It’s possible that submission of this critical document may result in just official denial of coverage.  I know for a fact that insurers are not required to give their customer a guarantee of coverage until they are about to make their decision.

 

However, if your Medical Advantage Plan covers it, that’s great.  If not, you will then have to go to your secondary insurance companies, whichever volunteers to be the next one.

 

I don’t envy your position.  Our interaction with our primary travel insurance plan was much easier, and we are grate for that.

Thanks for posting. The Kaiser third party insurance agent has told us that they will approve full payment of the costs of the medivac and only need documentation from Oceania/NCL Holdings that they paid. Our initial interaction with Kaiser was certainly frustrating and full of misdirection and wild goose chases but once we finally got the right person at the right department at the right third party organization, we made progress. That’s why it’s so frustrating and irritating that this one step is being impeded by Oceania/NCL and therefore the target of my angst and anger. 

8 minutes ago, Janet- said:

Have you written back to her to thank her for her help but told her you have still not received the "documents"

We have responded and was told that she will look into the matter. We await her response. 

1 hour ago, Tsunami74 said:

Yes that puts all this discussion in perspective!

Hope that helps in understanding our apparent “overreaction”

7 minutes ago, Tsunami74 said:

Bongomauka,

If this is not too personal, with so much action on this topic, would you mind saying approximately how much did this medical evacuation cost? 

i.e. what magnitude of a problem is everyone discussing?

That’s a good question and may put this all in perspective. The bill for the evacuation is well over $100,000.

I apologize for the omission but another poster mentioned the cruise ship staff and their role. The exemplary service to my partner and me throughout the medical emergency, medivac, and subsequent disembarkation was outstanding. My disappointment is with Norwegian Cruise Lines Holdings who have made the insurance claim process a hellish nightmare not the ship’s staff. 
The Oceania Marina’s amazing concierge, the housekeeping staff, the medical staff, even the food service staff who helped with the helicopter evacuation as well as the rest of the crew were amazing. They were so kind, supportive, sympathetic and respectful and I’m sure we got through that ordeal relatively intact because of them. 

1 hour ago, babysteps said:

Agree.

 

@Bongomauka suggest you use a corrected version of @TRLD's bullet points and reach out to a consumer advocacy organization, either local to you (say a TV station's) or at elliot.org. Elliott in particular is skilled at reaching out to companies that have stopped talking to the consumer.

 

Highly recommend you stick just to bullet points in the first email, you can always fill in with more narrative later. If you start with a long narrative many places will just ignore it - which is sad, since a full narrative of this saga would need to be long!

 

If you do reach out to a consumer advocate, I am guessing we might not hear back on this board on this topic for a while - may your quest go well!!

Thank you babysteps and TRLD for your much appreciated support and advice. We’re already in contact with Elliott and have been preparing to contact a local tv consumer watchdog team. I will definitely keep this thread updated as to further trials and tribulations and hopefully a happy resolution. 

20 minutes ago, TRLD said:

When you were evacuated did you give Oceania any of your travel insurance policy information? If so one or both?

 

Have you opened a claim with the travelers policy?

 

Other that receiving the invoice from the Oceania insurance company have you had any other communications with them?

 

At what level are you working with at Oceania or NCLH?

 

Have you tried contacting senior mgt at either organization? Oceania or NCLH?

 

I would not do anything with an attorney at this stage. As a former corporate executive whenever there was an issue and we received a letter from an attorney, all work would stop, the matter would get referred to in house legal staff, and would only proceed at their direction. Sloeing things down considerably. Many large companies operate that way. Contacting their legal department asking for advice on how to solve the current problem to prevent a future legal issue might be a good approach but formal letters just tend to get large companies going into legal protect mode.

Thank you for your well considered post. The exemplary staff aboard the Marina helped me research both our primary healthcare insurance and travelers insurance onboard the ship, even assisting me in opening the travelers insurance claim before the evacuation of my partner took place. Our almost daily communications with Oceania is through their third party insurance processor from whom we received the Portuguese Air Force invoice. We have reached out to several executives at Oceania/NCL Holdings including Mr Del Rio and have talked to their executive office via telephone and letter. We have also contacted the promissory note department, Executive desk department, and Oceania guest services. We have so far received a reply from Ms. Leon-Meredith, Director of Financial Services at NCLH stating the situation and that she has put requests for documents. 
Thank you so much for your valuable insight into how an attorney letter may throw a further wrench into our struggles. We will need to hold off on that option in spite of several posters suggesting otherwise. 

37 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

And just to double check, because you used an third party travel insurer (which one? giving us more info could help a lot...) are you sure they are secondary and not primary?

Also, perhaps what is happening could be used for a "secondary" claim?  (perhaps the insurers could fight it out!?  wishful thinking, I know!)

And who sold you that policy?  They may be able to help?

 

Just thinking of possibilities...!

 

GC

Thanks. Yes our travel insurance policy (Generali purchased from our travel agent) explicitly states that our healthcare insurance is primary and that their policy will not apply till the primary declines the claim. We haven’t yet reached out to the TA but plan to as soon as the holiday is over. Thanks again. 

14 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

Part of me is starting to feel that OP is maybe ‘attention seeking’.

 

He/she has been involved in this mess for 9 months and it’s appears to be the primary focus of each and every waking moment. What a dreadful waste of 9 months of life.

 

The reason for my assumption is that every constructive idea that has been posted here has been rejected for one reason or another. Also the time OP has spent  here would  be better spent speaking to those (insurers) who, in reality, are the only ones that can help.

 

My guess is, that if he/she is ‘hounding’ everyone involved on a daily basis they may also have lost track of the whole situation. Sometimes, with constant badgering, you tend to lose focus on the ‘real’ issue, in other words you can’t see the wood for the trees.

 

Bongomauka, as has already been said, maybe you should put all your energy into finding a way through the maze rather than spending so much time here.

 

I wish only a good outcome.

You are right! A dreadful waste of 9 months. Unfortunately it goes on. I’m sorry for giving the impression that the advice is all being rejected. I hope I’ve demonstrated my gratitude for all the support and suggestions. Some of the suggestions we have already put in motion and are waiting for them to work, other advice we have taken to heart and have started, like contacting Elliott.com and have renewed our search for an attorney who can help us. As to spending time on this post, I feel that having asked the community for input, I feel responsible that every post should be answered as thoughtfully as I’m capable. While I’m here posting, my partner is hammering away trying to resolve this issue with frequent input from me, much of it from advice gotten here. But you are right, that approach is seemingly now all consuming and so your advice is well taken. Thank you. 

6 minutes ago, stan01 said:

This has become a long thread so I may not be tracking everything, have you written a factual letter to the CEO of Oceania asking for their assistance in resolving this matter?  That should get you the name of person who would be accountable and who you could continue to work with until this is resolved.  If you have already done that, and I missed why that is not working, I'm sorry for mentioning it again.

Thanks stan01 for your fortitude in slogging through many of these posts. I’m afraid I’ve become redundant in an attempt to respond to all the kind support and helpful advice. We have indeed sent letters to the corporate higher ups in hopes of resolving this frustrating issue. I also am confused as to why our letters aren’t working. Those that get a response usually say they will look into it. We have been waiting for response or action for close to 3 months. It would seem that there would be some documentation of NCL paying the Portuguese AIr Force which is all we need. 

1 hour ago, EJL2023 said:

At this point I think you really need to spend less time here and fully concentrate on the issue at hand. Many people have provided input and you say you will do it and/or then drop another tidbit of information not previously shared to confuse the matter even more. Just a lot of ‘odd’ posts. One constant is your bashing of Oceania and as many have noted hard to tell who really is at fault at this point. And no….it will not make me reconsider cruising with Oceania because of a one off very unusual situation in which we may or may not be getting the whole story. Or at the very most just one side of the story. You may want to go update your file and remove Oceania as your favorite cruise line at this point. All my opinion above but I honestly think more to the story. And I hope your partner is doing fine and completely recovered. Thankfully it sounds as if the medical department on Oceania made  prompt and necessary decisions for your partner. 

I must apologize but I’m sure I am angry and frustrated after 9 months of having to unfruitfully deal with this claim. Also I apologize for not putting all the information in one post as I was hoping posters would have read previous posts with the rest of the pertinent information but realize that might be expecting too much given the sheer number of posts. If you find my posts to be too much Oceania bashing, I certainly can understand. I am exceedingly angry with Oceania/NCL Holdings for prolonging this process, especially given my partner’s now compromised health. I hope I did not imply that the staff on the Oceania Marina were anything less than stellar. Under the circumstances, the concierge staff, the medical staff, and the housekeeping staff were all exemplary.  And to your well taken point, yes this may be a one off and I sincerely hope it is, but I also hope NCL’s handling of this situation is also one off and not their typical corporate response in similar situations where their assistance is required. Lastly, you are right, this is my side of the story, NOT Oceania/NCL Holdings or their third party insurance processor, our primary insurance company or their third party claims processor, or our independent travelers insurance company, and certainly not my partner’s. I would be more than happy to read/share their side of the story should that be forthcoming. I will pledge to include their comments should I receive them in future posts. 

1 hour ago, Mike07 said:

I'll be honest, I have no idea what the actual story is. OP seems to want to vent. That's fine and its healthy to some extent.

 

Believe it or not, it sometimes takes years to get insurance settlements in events like this as there is so much back and forth that has to go on.

Thank you for your post. I’m sure I am indeed venting. After 9 months of dealing with this almost daily, my frustration and anger has become second nature when I talk or write about this situation. I’m totally in agreement, with now firsthand experience, with insurance settlements taking years. What is most infuriating is that all of my insurance policies that would cover this claim expire after just one year and yet all parties involved insist on stalling the process, thereby threatening the loss of my coverage. 

Just now, Bongomauka said:

Thanks for your post. What you have outlined is correct except #4, Oceania has not yet asked us to pay, in fact we were advised not to pay by Oceania’s third party insurance agent as he could not guarantee that we would be able to get a receipt to use for reimbursement. #6. Yes we have additional travelers insurance which was purchased through our on line travel agency. It was Oceania that sent th

Sorry I pressed submit prematurely. #6 we purchased our travelers insurance from our online travel agency. It was Oceania who actually sent the PAF invoice to us through their third party insurance company processor. 
Thank you for responding and any thoughts you may have would be gratefully received. 

4 minutes ago, TRLD said:

From what I have read here I understand that

 

1. You received an invoice from PAF, but that invoice was not sent directly to you, but was routed through the Insurance company that Oceania uses

 

2. You tried to pay the invoice, but the payment was returned

 

3. You have not received any invoice stating that you now owe Oceania

 

4. Oceania has told you that you should pay the amount to them, but nothing is in writing

 

5. Kaiser is your primary insurance and would cover evacuation

 

6. You have additional travel insurance that is secondary.  Is this the same travel insurance that Oceania offers or a different company? Is it the same company that forwarded the  PAF invoice to you?

 

What have I missed. depending if my understanding is correct and depending upon the answers above I have a couple of thoughts about what might be happening.

 

 

Thanks for your post. What you have outlined is correct except #4, Oceania has not yet asked us to pay, in fact we were advised not to pay by Oceania’s third party insurance agent as he could not guarantee that we would be able to get a receipt to use for reimbursement. #6. Yes we have additional travelers insurance which was purchased through our on line travel agency. It was Oceania that sent th

7 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

You are going to jump to whatever conclusions you want.  I've tried to advise you what to ask to eliminate your concerns.  At this point I wish you well.   

I’m not sure what you mean in regards to my jumping to conclusions but any case, I thank you for your input. 

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

You don't need the documentation from Oceania.  Your insurer's claim adjuster needs that documentation.  

 

You have an existing open claim with your insurer.  You have met the deadline to file the claim.  For the second or third time, I suggest strongly you confirm with your insurer how this open claim will be treated should it take go beyond this "deadline" you are worried about.  I think you will like the answer.   Why Oceania would withhold documentation from your insurer who agrees to pay and then send you a bill is very strange.   So, to eliminate that stress, ask your insurer how the claim will be handled should Oceania send you an invoice for reimbursement sometime in the future.   I think you will find you are OK.   

I hope you are correct but my trust in both insurance companies and Oceania has been severely tested n the past 9 months. By the way you are not correct. I do need documentation from Oceania. And I need that documentation to get to my insurer. What I don’t need is to end up paying for triple insurance coverage and not being able to use any of it to cover this expense. Oceania doesn’t need to give it too my insurer as they will hold me ultimately responsible for the bill My primary insurance doesn’t need the documentation because getting it means that they are responsible for paying the bill and I imagine would rather not be responsible. So you see I do need this documentation.