HappyFeet13

Thanks for posting. It is great to hear that things aboard Encore are going well. We board Encore on Oct 30 in Piraeus for "14 Day Eastern Mediterranean Cruise" which also ends in Piraeus. I started a Roll Call for the trip and have had no responses. That left me wondering..."Is this to be a nearly empty ship?"  Is your ship full?  Glad to hear that the food and service are great ...but do you ever get an opportunity to have "local" food aboard ship, or do you have to depend on lunches ashore for that? Thanks, Jim

Ab21AU-  I have done many cruises with Seabourn, always buying my air myself, and booking direct with Seabourn. I noticed that everyone using a travel agent got a "deal"...special tours, or money credits, or upgrades.  I never got any. So this time I thought I'd be smart. I booked with AmEx Platinum.  They told me, after checking,  that they could get airfare cheaper via Seabourn Air that by going direct to Qantas.  I said OK.  So...IF Seabourn actually ever paid Qantas, they have to get their money back, and then credit it back to my AmEx card. Looks like I outsmarted myself. Had I bought the tickets direct from Qantas, I'd have my money by now. I also bought insurance for the whole package from Seabourn...several thousand dollars. But it doesn't provide coverage in this case. Altogether, more than $50,000 down the tube for "a once-in-a-lifetime, dream trip". Oh well.

I fully understand   I get it now. Will wait patiently for my $47,000. Thanks for the clear and detailed response.👍

Although I booked with AMEX Platinum Travel, including cruise and air, the charge on my cc statement of $47,299 on Dec 31, says Seabourn. 

Just heard from AmEx travel. They told me "tough luck", I have to wait for Seabourn travel to credit my $47,000 back for cruise and air (Seabourn booked Qantas for me via Seabourn Air). So...my theory didn't work. I paid Seabourn the final balance due for 4-29 cruise, and for airfare,  last December, for a flight in April.  I doubt that Seabourn gave the money to Qantas back then. I still think that if Seabourn stiffs me, I have a claim against AmEx. We'll see. 

Good get. I will look at old statements. 

 There are two variations of a potential claim:

1. Had I used my AmEx card to pay Seabourn and/or Qantas, that might offer me some protection, as AmEx is usually very good about reversing charges. For example, if I bought something on Amazon, using my AmEx card, and did not receive it, all I need to do is tell AmEx and they immediately credit my account. I think most credit cards do that. So, I'm suggesting that asking for a refund from the credit card company may be an approach that you might find worth pursuing. Let THEM deal with it.

2. My case is slightly different. I did not only use my AmEx card to book this trip, but I actually paid Amex Travel for it. i.e. My AmEx card was used to pay AmEx itself. So, I have no claim against Seabourn or Qantas, my claim is against AmEx. If they paid Seabourn and Qantas, and can't get their money back, that is THEIR problem, not mine. (Hope that works!)

I have a new angle I'm trying to try to get a $47,000 refund.  I booked via American Express travel, and paid them...not Seabourn or Qantas directly.  Seabourn and Qantas do not owe me a refund...they owe it to AmEx.  Seabourn and Qantas will not deal with me directly, since I did not book the trip. They require me to go through AmEx. I have written AmEx and to told them that American Express Travel charged me for air and cruise, and they did not deliver because the cruise and air was cancelled. AmEx, therefore, owes me my money back, right now.  If they have a problem getting THEIR money back from Seabourn and Qantas, that is THEIR problem, not mine. I paid THEM, and they owe me. I believe that this approach will work. If you use a TA, you might try the same approach. I'll let you know what happens with AmEx. 

Much as i have enjoyed Seabourn, i agree with you. When we are able to sail again, i will try another cruise line.  

Found out cruise lines and ships based in Tampa  for the season:

Carnival Cruise Line’s Carnival Paradise and Carnival Miracle.

Royal Caribbean Brilliance of the Seas, and Rhapsody of the Seas.

Norwegian Cruise Line’s Norwegian Dawn

Celebrity Cruises’ Celebrity Constellation

Holland America Line’s , Veendam

I live in a high-rise on the waterfront in St. Petersburg, FL. with a great view of Tampa Bay. Tampa is the starting point for Caribbean cruises for about 4-5 cruise lines.  In the past few weeks, I have noticed cruise ships coming and going. They are obviously not carrying passengers. Wonder what they are doing? There is one right now, 5:26 pm Monday, heading out from Tampa toward the Gulf. The last one I saw going out, yesterday or the day before, was a Carnival ship...this one looks like Holland America. I guess there isn't enough room for all five of them at the port, so they take turns coming in, and they go out and sail around in circles a few days, then come back?  Wonder if that is going on everywhere in the world, at all cruise ship ports? I believe the crews are probably stuck aboard, as they would possibly be Covid carriers, or lack entry visas? Does anyone know?

I meant Summer 2021🙂

It is beginning to look like the self-isolation is working. Numbers of new diagnoses and deaths appear to be coming in lower than projected just a few weeks ago.  But the price paid has been to shut down our entire economy.  I'm not sure we can do that every flu season. Based on my last cruises, I'd guess the average age of a Seabourn passenger is 60-65...maybe older.  That is the highest-risk demographic for Covid19, which will some experts believe will probably become seasonal, subsiding this Summer and returning next Fall. There will not be a vaccine by this Fall. After they approve  a vaccine, they'll have to produce and administer hundreds of millions of doses.  So...smart seniors won't be wanting to book a trip until Summer 2002...if then, and almost ALL Seabourn guests are seniors.  

Rose-colored...in the US only our president uses unnecessary vowels. 😂

I certainly hope Westmount is right, and they come back soon.  Some of the best memories of my life were Seabourn cruises... the fjords of Norway...rounding Cape Horn on a glassy sea under a beautiful moon...waving at the kids in dugout canoes on the Amazon. And the great people we've met aboard.  Will sure miss all that. 

My opinion is that they will all be forced to declare bankruptcy. I think it will be a long time (probably more than a year) before they cruise again, and when they do, the management and structure of the cruise lines will have changed. I also think FCC's will become nearly worthless (although they will be honored in some way by the newly-reorganized company at some time in the future) and I fear that refunds just won't happen. I really hope that I'm wrong, but I can't see how these cruise lines, with immense overhead and a lot of debt, can stay afloat (pun intended). "Mothballing" ships for a few months creates all kinds of problems, not the least of which is getting everything mechanically operational again. Anyone who has ever owned a boat knows that if you don't use them, they break. Planning routes, finding ports, arranging for fuel and supplies,  re-constituting trained crews, and finding passengers willing to get on a cruise ship, will be a nightmare. Of course Carnival and the others have to put a positive spin in order to get people to book for next year, and to buy their stock. They are fighting for their lives...and their jobs. But I think they know that even if they were allowed to start up again in two months, they just couldn't pull it off. When they re-start, it will be like planning a Normandy invasion, times 10. It will take many, many months to do that.  The cruise lines will be the major international business catastrophe of Covid 19. The airlines will get bailed-out because they are national assets and employ nationals in their own countries. The cruise lines are "a man without a country", and will be allowed to fail, because it is not in any nation's interest to spend many, many  billions to save them. Sorry to be such a sourpuss, but I think that's reality. 

Apology accepted🙂Here's the problem: They expect Covid19 to disappear during the Summer, and come back in the flu season next Fall. Experts are saying it is unlikely that they will have a Covid19 vaccine tested and approved before then, although they will surely have better, proven, treatments for it. The problem for cruise lines is that ships are floating petri dishes. Unless there is a vaccine developed before next Fall, I think cruise ships will be unable to have sufficient cruise destinations because most ports won't want them, and people will avoid travel on cruise ships because of the horror stories of what occurred this Fall. It will be quite a struggle, because a lot of cruise ports need the ships to come in to support their local economies. That will lead to some political turmoil at those cruise ports between those who want to allow cruise ships and those who don't.  Those things take time to resolve. That doesn't mean that cruise lines won't book and sell cruises for later this year and early next year...I think they will, because they need the money. But there remains the risk that they will cancel again. Can you imagine how hard it is for a cruise line to plan an entire cruise itinerary for each ship, starting from wherever the ships are when they begin service again...reassembling the crews...arranging for provisions and fuel...printing brochures...selling cruises... etc?  The logistical issues are staggering. I hope Carnival is able to sell their stock in the new offering, because it increases the chances that I'll get my money back from Seabourn, and it  keeps them alive, but I think it will be the Summer of 2021, at the earliest,  before the first ships sail again.  

Ok. I think a good reason to keep the cruise industry from going bankrupt is that thousands of Americans have deposited 100’s of millions with cruise lines. They are all expecting their money back or a “future cruise credit”. If the cruise lines go bankrupt, they don’t get their money back, and there is no “future cruise”.  To me, it seems a good idea to lend them money to allow them to refund money to us,  and to stay in business to honor their future cruise promises. The fact that they have $50,000 of my money has nothing to do with my opinion😀

Thanks, Rambo_Trout.  Great explanation!

What a nightmare!

https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-american-coronavirus-covid-19-zaandam-rotterdam-2020-3

Maybe Liberia or the Bahamas will bail them out...that's where all the ships are registered.😄.

Oh, wait...they have my money. That means I probably won't get it back. 😢

Makes sense. Carnival runs the show. I'm sure Seabourn was told they couldn't make any deals or announcements until Carnival came up with a corporate policy that would apply to all their subsidiaries. Seabourn is only a tiny part of Carnival.

I was wrong earlier. They are not losing a million dollars a week...they are losing more than $1 million a day. Not only is their home base in Seattle (thanks for reminding us of that, DWF), which makes it difficult for them to deal with their headquarters operation, but they have employees scattered all of the world, asking "how do I get home?", and "Do I have a job?", "When do you want me back? And where?" And travel agents hounding them for updates on upcoming cruises. I paid Seabourn and Seabourn Air for the cruise and 1st Class tickets on Qantas (no longer doing any international flights) from Florida to Auckland (no longer accepting cruise ships), for my April 29 "Polynesian Pathways". I bought travel insurance...but it doesn't cover this.  I have $50,000 at risk, so I certainly take this seriously. It is also a lifetime dream trip, crossing the Pacific. I'm unlikely, because of age, health, and upcoming grandchildren's HS and college graduations that occur in late May for the next three years, to have a chance to take the voyage again.  I am disappointed in many, many ways. But I'm not mad at the President, Seabourn, or anyone else. They are doing the best they can. We can help by getting out of their way for a bit, and not clogging their phone lines and wasting their time by asking "What about MY trip next month?" or "When do I get  MY money back?". We are making their jobs more difficult, and distracting them from much more urgent matters. They'll get to us. 

They are in desperate trouble: Thousands of employees, stuck in out of the way places. Should they send them home? How? Should they put them up in ports they are in? Where? Do they keep paying them? How? They can't keep them aboard ship, too close. Then they have passengers stranded everywhere, and others asking if their cruise is still on for May...June, etc.  Meanwhile, the are losing about $1 million a week. They have to find a place for their ships, they have people booked by the tens of thousands in the upcoming year. Everyone's asking:   Will they sail again? When and from where? How and when will they resume?  In the great scheme of things, giving us folks our money back RIGHT NOW just doesn't make their priority list (even if they did have the money..which they don't). They are doing triage...and have decided that we can wait. We're like a patient in the ER with a broken finger...they'll take care of the guy with chest pain first.  We should all understand that. I think we should cut them some slack. A great company with great people.  I hope I get to sail with them again.  I'll be first in line when they're ready to go.  

Seabourn is owned by Carnival. Carnival Cruise lines has had one of the largest decreases in its stock value in the world, decreasing from $52 a share in February, to $12 last Friday. It will probably go lower.  It has a huge debt burden for all of the ships it owns. It is losing an enormous amount of money.  It is HIGHLY unlikely that any Seabourn, or any Carnival ships, will sail for quite a while. There is just no place to go, as most ports won't take cruise ships. There is also no way for passengers to fly to embark/debark destinations, and not many hotels that will be able to remain open.  If a ship  DID sail, and reach a port, they would not find many restaurants of places of interest remaining open, as crowds aren't allowed. Certainly the shore excursions, via bus, would be curtailed or eliminated. That said, those of us who have paid in full for our trips may not get our money back, even if Seabourn finally cancels some of the few cruises that still show as scheduled.  Mine, from Auckland to San Francisco on April 29 is an example. Qantas has cancelled international flights. New Zealand doesn't want cruise ships. Some of the places we were supposed to stop along the cruise  have blocked cruise ships for the foreseeable future. Will Carnival declare bankruptcy if it doesn't get an enormous bail-out? I think it might. They can re-form after the crisis  is over and start anew. If that happens, we won't get refunds. There's no money to pay us with. If they remain in business, we'll get FCC. if they go bankrupt, no FCC will be worth much.  I prepaid air via  Seabourn Air, so they may not refund that, either.  We'll see what the airlines do. They are almost in the same position as cruise lines. No passengers...nowhere to go for tourists. Bottom-line is that I think we won't be cruising for a while, and that it is possible we will not get refunds...the money just isn't there.  

Westmount....I tried to get tickets to Perth asap to see 400 people standing naked on the balconeys of an arriving ship, but no dice.  Maybe a local will take pix and post here?  You have handled this amazingly welll. Under the circumstances I might have jumped overboard and swum for shore...any shore. I love sea days, but I'll bet they ran out of trivial pursuit questions, and Seabourn pens and umbrellas for winners,  a while ago. Thanks for sharing your  ordeal with us. Best of luck to you!