mamkmm2
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Posts posted by mamkmm2
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On 5/28/2020 at 3:07 AM, Lou33 said:
And that's exactly why it's so important for "everybody" to wear a mask in a closed, crowded environment such as a casino. They can wipe down the machines, sanitize surfaces all that they want. But if this is primarily spread through droplets, then all it takes is one selfish person, who doesn't even know that they're infected, to spread it to hundreds in the matter of a few hours.
Read the disclaimer on masks less than an unvented N95. Every single one of them state that they do not stop airborne bacteria and virus. This includes the surgical mask varieties that in reality only designed for Single use in sterile environments. Those masks are more permeable than you think and must be fitted properly. Once you touch the outside of them they are contaminated. If you don’t put them on and take them off the correct way and then dispose of them properly you’ve obliterated the little protection they did offer. -
1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:
There are some good videos out there that explain the guidelines and how they'd be implemented. That said, the guidelines will almost certainly be modified as time goes on, and potentially scrapped altogether once a vaccine is produced.
There has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus. It is the nature of the type of virus it is. Additionally with showing significant mutation abilities a vaccine may not be possible or effective for all clades at the same time. Even assuming an effective vaccine it will take years to fully implement.
I expect some cruise lines to go bankrupt prior to the end of 2021, at least one of them being a major line.
Given current insistence on the use of the inefficient suppression method of virus control, I doubt the EU governing body is going to back off. That is wishful thinking. I am not singling them out. The CDC is every bit as obtuse in this regard.
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9 hours ago, Zippeedee said:
“Awful” as in not requiring enough safety precautions to keep people from being infected?
Have you actually read The 49 page report? They want to segregate everybody that is 65 and older away from everyone else including the people already in their party. They’re going to require 65 and older people to have a fit to travel form signed by a doctor. No more dining with friends. You can only dine with those in your family in the same state room. That means if you have family that are in different state rooms you will not be able to dine together. That’s only some of the restrictions they want to see instituted. -
11 hours ago, njhorseman said:
It shows that the "protocols" NCL introduced with a lot of fanfare a few weeks ago were little more than another PR attempt to convince people that it would be safe to put their hard-earned money down for a cruise.
Obviously the cruise industry has not come up with plans adequate to meet the requirements of the CDC's No Sail Order, which is why they "voluntarily" suspended US cruising far beyond the July 24 expiration date of the CDC order.
We can only hope that the collaborative effort just announced will result in the development of meaningful plans that pass CDC muster rather than just signalling just more cruise industry eyewash PR .
You should look at what the EU is requiring. It is awful. -
Given the restrictions the EU wants I will not be cruising again while such restrictions are in place. If you haven’t heard what is in store and outlined in the 49 page document, I suggest you get familiar with it before booking. It is really awful and requiring masks is the least of it. Try the deliberate segregation of anyone 65 and older from everyone else on the ship. It goes downhill from there.
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On 12/30/2019 at 12:54 PM, jangor said:
Personally, I choose the itinerary first; then the ship!
This is what Princess is best at. Their itineraries are some of the best. Hubby and I usually try and have as few sea days as possible and we've found it most often on Princess.
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3 hours ago, c-boy said:
Kindles are in. Find a nice cozy quite nook to relax in.
There is no such place. LOL Unless you count your own cabin LOL
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I have heard numerous times … kinda hard to miss the loud conversations going on around me as they are meant to be heard by others … that anything remotely religious is offensive and they'll **** it up to prove just how much it offends them.
And sorry to say, just because Princess tends to be a little more upscale than some of the other lines, they still have their share of drunks that stay out till the bars close then get a stray hair and do stupid stuff. And then there are those that simply want to make other people aware of how miserable they themselves are, or are out for "revenge" for some imagined slight.
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I am really surprised they are installing these machines given the frequency of noro-type incidences that are becoming so prevalent. When there is an active noro incident they close down all self-serve drink services. They station people in the buffet and they don't want you even touching the serving utensils. No utensils, salt, sugar, etc. on tables. In the dining rooms they serve you a piece of butter, they'll bring you a package or two of sweetener, etc.
These machines may eventually be installed but what do you want to bet they'll be disabled or moved frequently to avoid a point of cross contamination.
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4 hours ago, scubacruiserx2 said:
What part of Florida only has 4 days that aren't hot and muggy ? This weeks weather in Tallahassee looks pretty nice to us .
As a native Floridian who has resided here almost 70 years I would say that we have about half a year of nice weather and half a year of air conditioned weather . There are very few air conditioned buildings in Saint Petersburg and with 5 million people it does get crowded especially in the touristic buildings .
My husband is also a native Floridian - has lived in Tampa his entire life - as were his parents before him. I've been here since '75 when my dad was stationed at MacDill. Tampa Bay area and South really does stay hot and muggy most of the year. While I was a little facetious, not that much. LOL This Thanksgiving, unless the weather changes, will be in the low 80s here in Tampa Bay.
To me the 70s for "summer" is what we normally think of as winter my neck of Florida. The weather I'm seeing is actually cooler than most of our "winter". LOL I was just in Tallahassee a couple of weeks ago doing some antiquing. A couple of really nice antique malls there and despite - or maybe because - being on the Atlantic Coast, it was still several degrees cooler than what was being felt back home in Tampa.
The crowds won't be an issue either for us … Tampa has gotten where "five o'clock traffic" run from about 3 pm - 7 pm and that's during non-peak tourist season. During peak tourist season and OMG, what a mess.
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We are going in July because that is the best time to be able to take our 16 year old with us. The weather sounds divine to be honest. We live in Florida where we have one season 99% of the year … hot and muggy. If I can handle the crowds here in Florida then I'll be able to handle the crowds in the Baltic.
Hypothetically "crowd" can be defined by what you are used to. What I think of as a "crowd" in Tampa is not the same thing as a "crowd" to someone from the middle of Idaho and certainly won't be what someone from a place like NYC or LA consider a "crowd." LOL
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If your apps are wifi then they'll work. The person on the other end has to be paying attention however. LOL The only glitch I have found is that when the wifi gets thin, slow, and/or glitchy your apps are only going to be as good as the signal at any given time. However, that is true whether you are onboard or not.
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On 11/21/2019 at 11:15 AM, Doug R. said:
Let's wait until we have confirmation before we jump on the another cutback wagon. All I can say is the lounge was alive and well on my January Regal cruise. Can anyone confirm that fact in more recent cruises than mine? I have heard a lot of kvetching about the revised cocktail menu and food for the lounge which leads me to believe the lounge still exists.
Evening lounge was available PES on the Caribbean Princess in October. It was in Skywalkers which is a popular place to hang out during the day so when the food started they checked to make sure only PES were using the venue at that time. I have no clue how they do it on ships that don't have a Skywalker venue.
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11 minutes ago, phabric said:
I love the Love Boat song on leaving each port.
The only time we've heard this was one of our New York/Brooklyn sail aways. That is out of nearly ten princess cruises. At least I got to hear what everyone has been talking about once. LOL
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Yes, in the traditional colors the cruise cards were done in. But to me it is subtle. The Platinum level is simply gray. Most of the ones I saw were blue. I noticed a Ruby when I saw it but Gold was as subtle as Platinum. I didn't really see any Elites but they are black from what I hear.
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Did a partial transit earlier this year. Spent time off ship in Panama. Spent time off ship in Costa Rica. Spent time off ship in Colombia as well. None of the ports we went required any kind of vaccination documentation. Making sure your MMR is up to date would be a smart move but YF is not required, nor checked.
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15 hours ago, Peckishpixie said:
My best friend has a tiny service dog who can tell when she is about to have a diabetic seizure and get her life saving meds out if her purse. At the house she has a button to push. out and about she goes and finds someone to alert to the problem. Stark has been carefully trained to recognize uniforms and really those are the only people she responds positively too. She is always on alert. Stark is very much not a dog for petting and snuggling. She hates it when people come near her. She is a tiny little pomsky and people are constantly running over saying how adorable she is which keeps her from doing her job. My point is, my BFF doesnt look disabled. Stark doesnt look like a typical service dog. Stark is very standoffish and not at all friendly. My BFF has to be very assertive when she asks people not to touch her dog. It is far more complex then it seems and you really have no way of knowing what is actually going on with the person or the dog. You dont have to know. You dont work for the cruise line and you are not an ADA lawyer. Its frankly none of your business why a person needs the dog. No one asks you about your medical conditions.
Actually diabetes is one of the conditions that the cruise ship needs to know about. Any condition which might cause a seizure is.
Look, I get both sides of this argument. But the main legal point is "reasonable accommodation" not how someone feels on a subject whether for or against. The SCOTUS has ruled that regardless of whether a cruise ship is US-flagged or not, while in a US port they must abide by the ADA in full. Conversely they have also ruled that when not in a US port essentially all bets are off and they do what they have to.
Point 2 is we know that certain countries have their own laws that the cruise line must obey while in port and often those laws are counter to the ADA and usually with good reason. Island nations have often have very strict quarantine laws for both people and animals and any not prepackaged foods.
For the above two reasons a cruise line is going to seem like they don't have hard and fast rules. Because of ports of call it is going to be more a itinerary by itinerary set of rules. Add to this that the ADA only covers dogs … or sometimes dogs and miniature horses. And if you read the ADA laws in their entirety … and they fill a notebook … you'll find that even the ADA isn't quite as cut and dry as most people think of it.
Add into that there are countries with animal diseases that are endemic that you would not want to take your animal, certainly not a service animal that is highly trained and highly valuable any more than you would want to walk down the street with a diamond necklace hanging out for the world to see.
And as yet another layer of conflicting confusion, understand that animal abuse is now a federal crime here in the US. People are going to start using that as a way of dealing with certain behaviors … feeding the bubbly to an animal that it has the potential to poison could be one of those instances. I know for a fact that some industries are seeing if the new designation can be used to greatly narrow when and how the ADA laws are imposed and give them more leeway to impose restrictions of what a service animal and/or ESD can be asked to prove. I've also spoken with lawyers that are working on a way to get the certification for service animals to be a federal license and that if you don't have the federal license then you aren't covered by the ADA and will be disallowed from traveling with an animal … and just like any federal license it will have to be renewed frequently.
This is what all of the people pushing the untrained and/or ill-behaved animals have done. They are making it more difficult for those with legitimate needs.
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13 hours ago, CaribbeanIsland said:
Service dogs are allowed at all rental properties-- regardless of breed. I also own rental properties and we can not restrict the type of dog ---
https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/landlords-service-dog/
Laws protecting Assistance Animals in No Pet Housing
There are two types of assistance animals that have special rights regarding housing. The first is service dogs and the second is emotional support animals. If you have a mental or physical disability that requires you to have either a Service Dog or an Emotional Support Animal, you have rights under Federal Law. A few of these rights include:
- 1). Access to “no pets” policy housing
- 2). Exemption from monthly pet fees
- 3). Exemption from a higher pet deposit
- 4). Exemption from breed or weight discrimination
We have never had anyone try to use a monkey. Only dogs.
Well the civil jury disagreed and we won the case. A particular breed of dog does make a difference because we were willing to make reasonable accommodation.
The pertinent ADA stances are:
*Individuals who have service animals are not exempt from local animal control or public health requirements.
*Service animals are subject to local dog licensing and registration requirements.
*Under the “direct threat” provisions of the ADA, local jurisdictions need to determine, on a case-by-case basis, whether a particular service animal can be excluded based on that particular animal.
It is not nearly as cut and dry as people assume.
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1 hour ago, PrincessLuver said:
I think the issues is that most people find that others bring their pets traveling with them and like to call them "fake ESA's." and that the laws really need to be tightened up because of this wide spread abuse. It is not that hard to really tell a well trained animal from one that is not.
They are making it difficult for those who truly have, need and use true service animals.
Let's just be honest about the fact that people are hiding behind the laws to have their pets fly free, get fake ESA certifications at bogus websites and then put the rest of us at risk of attack, disease, discomfort, allergies, etc. because they so feel entitled!!!
With regard to animals in restaurants, emotional support animals are specifically excluded. And yes, even the ADA - though resistant - agree that the laws need to be made more specific at the federal level. In some states the laws state that a service animal must not only be individually trained but must wear a designation while they are working and it is only while they are working that ADA applies. Federal cases have upheld those requirements to be recognized as a working service dog.
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12 hours ago, Coral said:
Service dogs are allowed in public places in the US and that means inside. Not outside only.
https://www.fastcasual.com/articles/treatment-of-service-dogs-at-restaurants-and-the-law/
Fear of dogs, allergies, cultural differences or personal discomfort is not grounds for refusing service of a patron and service dog team. Nor may a restaurant place the team in a separate area or in outside seating (unless requested by the handler). The handler must be treated as any other patron customer.
Your information is not accurate.
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Obviously I have far more experience than anyone else on this thread in reference to Service dogs (over 20 years of having one in my household and traveling extensively with one). I have shared my experiences on the ship and that is what this thread is about. I am not going to respond anymore. It is not worth my time disagreeing with those who do not understand the law.
I understand the law because we've worked with the ADA and their lawyers many times over the years. I did not say that service animals are not allowed inside. I am saying that service animals and their handlers receive reasonable accommodations and only reasonable accommodations. And with regard to restaurants, a restaurant does not have to violate health codes to make the accommodation. If codes prevent animals from being within so many feet of food prep, open food stations, etc. then that is the way it is going to be. A business does not have to put their license in jeopardy to accommodate someone with a service animal, that is not reasonable accommodations.
And yes, most restaurants accommodate service animals by having specific tables or areas of the restaurant so that their accommodation does not violate health codes or OSHA laws. Just like with housing ADA regs, a restaurant does not have to change the way tables, etc. are set up to prevent the animal from being stepped on or being a tripping hazard for employees.
What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that just because you fall under the ADA does not mean that you don't have some accommodating to do and having reasonable expectations is one of them.
One of the best examples that I've been given by a lawyer is the one with regard to public bathrooms. Businesses are required to have at least one stall in their bathrooms that is ADA compliant … usually called the handicap stall even if that isn't the best description. They are not required to have every stall ADA compliant. A reasonable accommodation would be to ask people to not use the handicap stall unless they need it. But if there is a line in the ladies room, everyone has to wait their turn. The person covered by ADA doesn't automatically get to jump to the head of the line though most people would try and do this out of courtesy, not because of requirement.
A restaurant can accommodate someone covered by ADA by having a specific seating location that conforms to health and safety regs but they can't treat the customer discourteously, nor can the customer be unreasonable with regard to other customers and the business.
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6 minutes ago, Coral said:
Thankfully - we were almost always asked where "we" wanted to sit in the restaurant with my Mom's Seeing Eye dog. Most restaurants realized we wanted to be out of high traffic walking areas. I would not have tolerated being told we could only eat outside.
I understand, but the business is allowed to determine what is a "reasonable accommodation." Health and safety codes are a huge deal in restaurants. They can lose their license to operate. While it is nice that they were able to accommodate you, and you were reasonable with your expectations by being out of traffic, not all people are aware the limitations of the ADA law and make demands they have no right to. We run into this a lot.
One good example of this is with breeds of animals. The insurance we have on our properties stipulates that certain breeds are not covered by our policy. A tenant tried to take us to court because we would not accommodate her breed of service animal. The court sided with us. We did not have to put ourselves in jeopardy to accommodate her and her service animal. A good ADA lawyer will explain "reasonable accommodation" and the laws are quite clear on the subject. This also comes up a lot with "exotic breeds" of service animals. Just because a monkey is a service animal does not mean that I, as a landlord, have to accommodate that breed of service animal because our area has codes regarding exotic species.
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We've never had anything but anytime dining. We don't mind have different dining partners when we use the MDR as it keeps things interesting. We usually ask for a table for 2 anyway due to the fact the larger tables tend to take much longer to go from appetizer through dessert. Dinner is already a process that takes nearly 2 hours in the MDR, we've seen it take longer than that.
We only go to the MDR on formal nights anyway. For us it is simply nerve wracking to want to see a show or performance and if the other people at the table aren't on the same schedule they can unintentionally cause us to be late because of how service runs.
Everyone is different. We go on cruises for the itinerary. Other people go for the comradery, etc. Pick what best suits your personality and goals for the trip. If it doesn't work initially, you can alter it. You live, you learn.
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One time we found EZair to be the cheapest option. All other times we've been able to find better prices booking it ourselves. Either way you have to keep up with it yourselves to see if rates go down or not.
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We have to deal with the ADA issue a lot because we are landlords. Remember, the real issue here is "reasonable accommodations." The ADA does not require landlords to widen doors, put in permanent ramps, lower or raise counter heights, put in bathrooms fixtures, etc. As a landlord we do have to allow safe, temporary ramps that can be removed once a tenant leaves … at the cost of the tenant, not our cost. We do have to allow the tenant to install fixtures … but not at our cost and the tenant must return the unit to us with the original hardware and undamaged at the end of their lease. We do not have to widen doors, etc and the tenant must pay for any damage they do. They cannot install anything that is permanent without our permission and they have to pay for it and cannot remove it when they leave. We cannot ask them to prove their disability though most do through doctors notes at the very least. Also, the changes the tenant is allowed to make cannot be unsafe … they have to pass all municipal codes. So that temporary ramp has to be a real ramp and not just some jury rigged ramp a kid might use for jumping a skateboard.
In other words … reasonable accommodations.
The same is essentially true of people who utilize service animals. A business has to make reasonable accommodations but they don't have to make structural changes to facilitate the accommodation. The discussion between the lawyers is what constitutes reasonable accommodation regarding animals. A cruise line does not HAVE to make it so you can leave the ship in various ports. Especially if the country the port is in has rules of their own. What is law in the passenger's home country may not be the law at foreign ports and no one is required to make accommodations and change laws. Nor does a ship have to disregard existing health and safety codes. What is the code for animals in the dining areas generally speaking for any restaurant? Answer, a reasonable accommodation is to be made … which could mean that you are at a table outside or in the back and away from all other diners and away from the kitchen and serving areas.
Then there is the issue of reasonable behavior and expectation of the service animal's handler. Note that in the US animal cruelty is now a federal crime. What constitutes animal cruelty. I have heard the legal discussion taking place that putting an animal in a situation that is contrary to its purpose and training may be used against animal handlers mentioned in the OP.
There are a lot of nuanced discussions taking place and bad owners and handlers are only going to make things more difficult for those with legitimate needs being fulfilled by service animals.
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We WILL be cruising again!
in Norwegian Cruise Line
Posted
Live in the past much? Not dealing with reality is a failure to be an adult. Living a fantasy is something the cruise lines are no longer able to provide at this time and for some time to come.