Jachred

I look at a 15k base cost for two people and found plans at around 950 with cancel for any reason plus the medical benifit...  but most of the rest dont apply. Like baggage etc.  So it's the same price with some added benifits... 

Just wondering if you got to see it or not?

14 hours ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

If that's what the rep told you then the rep was making something up. I work in the industry and have first hand experience with flight scheduling etc. This is something that just doesn't happen. Southwest has 34 airplanes grounded. They have been reshuffling their schedules to reduce the number of cancellations. Sometimes you can cancel 1 flight and avoid canceling 2-3 flights. I will however repeat that flights are NOT cancelled because they aren't full. Especially when these days 20-30% of airplane tickets are booked under 2 weeks out.

I agree. The rep has no idea why the flight was canceled..  there are less aircraft available so flights have to be canceled.  Do they take into consideration how many passengers are affected by a cancelation or cascade effect of the cancellation... I hope so.. but again there is no way to know the reasoning behind why it was canceled beyond speculating for the average phone rep.  

I can certainly tell you they dont cancel flights for the sole reason of lack of people on them.. 

8 minutes ago, sjbdtz said:

 

 

What line of work are you in?   How much do you make?

 

 

I work in a call center..  here is my entire employment contract..

http://www.iamdl142.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/SWA-IAM-142_Final-TA-with-LOUs-14-and-15_10-21-16.pdf

38 minutes ago, sjbdtz said:

 

Just curious, do you check-in with every car valet, hotel maid, room service attendant, etc. to find out how much of their tips they get to keep? 

 

I assume you want every right to know that your car mechanic is being paid for their work  (aka "money is going to the people we intend on it going to",  because you want "quality people, who work hard, to get paid well"), but do you ask them what part of the commissionable parts they sell / upsell, they get to keep?  

 

As others have pointed out:  they are not there by indentured servitude.  If this is happening, it is either accepted practice, or not so egregious that the dealers aren't complict.

 

 

Now there's a potential explanation which nobody has ventured yet which is that MAYBE the dealers are on a similar plan to bartenders & servers with their tips.  That is, they're granted an advance against tips and that the advance is recovered by no more than 60% of the tips.  In other words  I will pay you $1000 / month.    If your total share of tips is more than $1,675/mth (so that 60% = $1000) then you get to keep 100% of the overage.   Otherwise you get the $1000 draw, plus 40% of the tips.

 

If that was the whole story, it would be more consistent with their practices elsewhere, and somewhat more excusable.  Dealers earn tips based on being personable, and since they all share tips - it's less about single-hand luck.     

 

This could explain why all dealers participate in the clap-clap when tokes are dropped.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

 

Yes I have checked those other positions and many more that get my tips to see how much they are getting and optimize their commision/tip so I do take that into consideration.   Like some restaurant servers have to tip out other positions and if they did a really good job i over tip...  another place I go the valet and establishment split 50% of the tips and I still have to pay a fee to park that is not shared.. I avoid the valet and when I do need to use it i dont tip...

The mechanic situation would be different because that would be commission on sales that his skill as a salesman earned him and agree it's mostly non of my buisness. But I do shop labor rates and part prices and see the cost vs doing it somewhere else or myself.  I do reward those that do a great job with repeat buisness.  

I do want to know if a position is commission based so I can evaluate the Information being provided..  

I do think that draw idea sounds like the most correct as it's the only fair way if they are a 100% tip position. 

I agree they have the choice to leave, but I view them if it's TRUE also taking advantage of me in the situation as well.

I have asked dealers at other casinos if their tips are pooled or not..  I tip smaller on pooled tips because that extra money makes a bigger difference in my bankroll than the toke box

In my job I've had many customers asked how I bonus what commission I get and I have never taken offence and shared that Information freely.

Larry

OP: Thank you for the post.. 

To those that say where my money goes is none of my business..  YOU ARE WRONG!

He(and as I will be doing when I go on) have EVERY RIGHT to know if our money is going to the people we intend on it going to!

Asking about TIPPING and COMPENSATION are TWO Different things. He did not ask how much do you get paid, how much do you make hourly, how much do you normally get per contract.... he asked... how much of this money I am giving you do you get to keep!!  How is that not relevant information?  If I am paying someone for doing work for me... and then the bank says... I am taking 1/2 as fees but if you tell anyone you can't bank here anymore... and I only can pay using that bank..... How is it not my business??  Same thing.. 

THE ONLY ONE THAT BENEFITS FROM TIPPING/GRATS NOT BEING TRANSPARENT IS NCL... PERIOD.... STOP BEING NASTY PEOPLE AND PROTECTING NCL AND KEEPING THESE STAFF MEMBERS UNDERPAID, UNDER-APPRECIATED AND ABUSED.

Also since you think this info is false.. if someone does get fired... then.... it must be true?  So even in your post you make no sense... 

On a cruise ship, I want quality people, who work hard, to get paid well, and treat me well.. Currently we use the tipping system for that.. but if it keeps getting abused... Were going to have crap workers, crap food, crap cruises, and slave ships... we have to stand up for the vacation experience we want.. and the way to get that is to treat the crew well.... 

Larry

#endrant

1 minute ago, jrupfl said:

Spoke again to pursuers desk, told me I should call when I hear the noise. ???? They must think I am hallucinating. Day four of sleep deprivation. Nothing they can do. Although they say it very nicely.

Maybe they want to adjust the volume and frequency to not disturb you as much. Atleast that's a optimistic thought. 

4 minutes ago, HippoSail said:

Oh cool. Congrats. We had received a free upgrade last week and I haven't see any new emails or anything on my NCL. The original emails for the bidding list my old stateroom. Not a big deal, happy to have been upgraded for free. 

I had to go into my app and click the message icon... not from the email.

10 minutes ago, HippoSail said:

I've seen a couple people say that they called NCL directly and upgraded for free or small fee due to drop in cruise price. If you do this after the upgrade bidding process, are you sent a new upgrade offer from your new stateroom?

I did.

https://www.southwestaircommunity.com/t5/Southwest-Stories/Boeing-737-MAX-8-FAQs/ba-p/88171

Keep an eye on aircraft type. Some flights are subbing in 700s for the max8...   leading to 32 people without a seat...  

If you do a mock booking and a fare shows your good.. if it says sold out click on flight number to see equipment  if 800 good. If not better check in right at 24hrs... have a boarding pass your gtg.. security doc. Prolly not..  

2 hours ago, dcruiser50 said:

I believe if you check cigarettes purchased in st Thomas do not require you to declare them, since it is a US territory

Keep in mind though many states can seize them as well... ie nyc and state if baught as gifts your supposed to pay the nyc tax on them...

4 cartons one time wont raise flags... but it is still technically supposed to be taxed.  Same with alcohol across state lines

Welcome trolls... why post a complaint to a discussion.. isn't it ironic that you are the one you are complaining about...   

How they get paid is my buisness because I am the one paying them.....  ie if the DSC is removed and doesn't impact anyone why not remove it if you can?  That's the question..  does that money goto the crew or a money grab....

I chose ncl because of the ship and iterary...  if I want to save money because of a price drop or removing costs that I can... and it doesn't affect those people... why not? 

11 hours ago, blcruising said:

So, what is your recommendation to the problem of receiving bad service, as in your example?

There is no solution... therefore calling it a tip or for good service is not correct. It's just to pay the crew their wage somthing that should be included in the fare.  Basicly it rewards average service

Larry

Well.. This is enlightening to the topic.. But how can you trust it when the refer to Cruise Critic as the source... 

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

45 minutes ago, FranknBeans said:

You will never find it as its confidential.

My employment agreement is 100% online, without names or anything but its there.. If it didn't have a name associated with it, I don't see how it would be.  My employer has very strict online and social media policies so I don't wish to associate myself with them, so no, I won't post it.

58 minutes ago, phillyguy31 said:

Many resorts and upscale hotels have a resort/hotel fee it is part of our society now.

I agree, and it's a scam.  Its a way to advertise a lower price and surprise you when its to late.  It very dishonest.  The worst is Vegas, where the resort fee is HIGHER than the room in many cases.

This type of scam is illegal in the EU, and presumably why we're still allowed to remove them because it violates their law. 

Surprising when you get past all the name calling, rudeness and do what everyone else does people... No real good reason to pay them.   If you're asserting the CREW get any of these Charges please post proof.  

I will ask again, because I can't find it on google, here or anywhere else.

Does anyone have an employment contract for ANY of NCL's tipped position that lays out their compensation?

49 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

you would be doing a great disservice to the staff you claim to care so much about if you remove automatic gratuities. They will have to surrender your cash tip to be pooled, and will only get part of it back.

 

Only remove gratuities if you are completely dissatisfied with the service provided. Short and simple.

If it does infact goto the crew, one punish 99% of the crew for one persons or departments bad service?  (Following your assumption that it goes to the crew)

For your example.. I have crappy dinner EVERY Time I goto the dining room, wrong order cold food, not empathetic servers, and I have an awesome stateroom steward..  I remove the Daily Service Charge, (is not a gratuity like you claim),  and tip the room steward the same amount as the DSC.  Then the Steward has to turn the tip in, and it goes back to the dining staff I wanted to get nothing because they suck?  

3 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Your opinion is that removing the DSC only hurts NCL/shareholders, but as Chengkp75, who worked for cruise lines, has said If the base wage, overtime, and DSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSC is reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.  

 

I guess we think differently, I would never remove my DSC to compensate myself for a price drop.

 

    

I agree its a different way of thinking.  Its not to compensate you for a price drop, its to drop the price.  IE an extra price drop.  Others have stated the crew check stays the same no matter how many pax are onboard.  

They can drop to the MINIMUM.  But how do they get over the minimum?  is it 100% DSC, is it a lower wage +DSC... Thats what I am trying to find out... If they always get the min, or does it really go to the crew...

52 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I've said all along, if the cruise line raised the fare to include the DSC, the crew would come out the winners.  Those that tip, will continue to do so for good service and those that removed the DSC and didn't tip, will continue to leave their dollars in their pockets.  I know some would be ticked off if they did this, while others would say that the crew is getting a decent wage, even though they would be getting the same wage as they would have gotten before any change.  I really don't understand why people are okay with paying, say, $300 a day for a cruise, but have such an issue paying $285 a day plus $15 DSC.  It is the same and the crew would get the same wages.

 

Not true that the cruise lines can pay whatever they want.  As Chengkp75 has explained over and over again, the crew is under the Maritime Labor Convention (MLC 2006), which sets the minimum wage for all mariners, not just cruise ship crew.  And he has also said that their compensation is a combination of wages and "incentive" program, which is the DSC.

For me it is two fold... 285+15   they market 285, and charge 300.... Therefore is just smoke and mirrors.  But I guess thats more of a legislation issue than a cruise issue since hotels can do it, but not airlines for some reason....     Also they say it goes to the crew.... I don't think it does, to bring it to a larger discussion, when shopping cruise lines, you also have to look and see what the "Crew Fee" is... its just a pain.  I always budget extra above and beyond the cruise fare for this reason.  The reason i would remove it is.  Because I can, because it doesn't hurt anyone but shareholders/NCL,  I feel that the deception and guilt trip is not appropriate, I really don't care if they are making money or not, its in my best interest to keep as much money in my pocket as I can..  

Another example is... If you booked a 2000 cruise 1 year out and before final payment, it goes to 1700... Would you still pay 2000 or 1700?   Removing DSC to me is the same as getting a fare drop, not hurting anyone but the NCL, who can adjust how much they charge for the cruises at any time..

Again this is the Assumption that the CREW directly get 0% of this money. 

7 minutes ago, erdoran said:

My guess is that the DSC doesn't go directly to the staff anyway, and I"m sure each cabin is charged DSC x number of pax, so just leave it alone. The steward from your cabin and the one for your in-laws benefit equally.  Tip your steward a bit extra if he does a decent job, since you are making extra work.   

 

Pay the DSC for your son as part of DSC for in-law's cabin.  If they get their upgrade I don't think (not sure) their DSC goes up; even if it does it's only a couple of dollars per day so just pay it, it's really not that much more money.   

 

And to jump back into the fight - I personally have a problem when someone is accused of "cheating", "stealing", "stiffing" or any one of the offensive, pejorative terms that are used for removing DSC.   The EMPLOYER is cheating, stiffing, stealing etc when they make a portion of the wage of the non-customer facing people depending on the oodgwill of the pax, and totally unrelated to their performance.   Pax rightfully consider a gratuity based on SERVICE and believe they are within their rights removing DSC for poor service.  NCL can always call it a "service charge" like they do with UBP and make it non-removable, right?  But then it would be taxed differently because it is no longer optional and therefore, not a gratuity.

I see it similarly different.  I don't think the crew are affected at all by removing the DSC. Therefore, I would change the sentence to, The CRUISE LINE is t cheating, stiffing, stealing etc when they make a portion of the wage of the non-customer facing people a guilt trip hidden fare increase to the passenger. 

2 hours ago, myjillian said:

If the tips go to the employees...how come they get a set paycheck and it doesn't vary???  Sometimes the ships are full...sometimes not.  We have taken about 70 cruises over the past 22 years over all of the cruise lines from 7 days to 33 days and since this "new" policy ( we cruised for years with the white envelope method ) we have questioned many many employees and the answer has always been the same....their paychecks stay the same !!!  So think about it

So from what I researched, it is not a TIP, or for good service. Its to pay employee's wages.   From what I can gather, they used to pay people crap... and said You'll make tips...  Then people stopped tipping... So they raised their wages to keep them happy, but then charged all passengers the Service Charge (Not tip) for the added expense of paying their crew.  While it doesn't go to the crew directly, it seems that instead of making them tipped positions they just get a real check for what they are worth now, and call the rest a service charge because "everyone else" is doing it.. So they have to stay competitive.   Just the way they word it is very weird.. 

4 minutes ago, thetaro said:

 

It doesn't matter if it goes to employees or not. You pay them through the fare one way or another. It's nothing more than a return policy that gives you a partial refund. When people abuse it, NCL will make it harder to get a refund.

Ok so pay it  ow so that if enough people pay it all the time then I can get a refund if I sail again and get bad service....    why would you pay more for a service you already paid for...  like if I buy a car and agree on a price and they throw in oh btw you have to give us more for doc fees... to do the sales paperwork... uhmm no I dont buy your product..  same with a cruise.. if it goes to the people as extra... then great.. if it goes into Ncl pocket and crew get the same... let the fare go up... idc at least it will be upfront instead of robbing the crew..

1 hour ago, NLH Arizona said:

The following is from a poster who worked in the cruise industry and is in the know:

 

The only thing that is "guaranteed" to a crew member is the minimum total compensation, which is currently $614/month for a 40 hour work week, plus overtime at 125% of the base wage for hours over 40/week. This totals out to about $1500/month. If the base wage, overtime, and DSC totals more than this, per their contract, they get that much, if the DSC is reduced, their wages can drop to the above minimum.

I wonder how often it goes above the minimum..  what is the base wage that the Dsc is added to to come up with so they get over the the min...   at what % full is it worth removing the dsc and directly doling it out to get the crew more?

17 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

I guess I don't understand why pax can't just pay the DSC and add to it if and when the service exceeds their expectations. It's how I've always done it since I've almost always had wonderful service from great providers of said service. 

 

What is wrong with paying DSC and just adding to it... do peeps not pay grats in restaurants and when at hotels? ... Sorry just don't get it!

What if you went to said restaurant.. The waiter was paid min wage... You left a tip on your credit card, and the owner took the whole tip, waiter got 0.  But if you tipped directly in cash, the waiter hid it, and kept it all.....

Would you still tip on said credit card?    

This is not a tipping or not tipping discussion. Its where the money goes discussion.  IE.  The OP and myself want to make sure the money goes to the hands of the crew, and not the company.