kiawahdon

For a prior O cruiser who is looking at booking again, today’s news really put cold water on booking until the dust settles. Among the concerns any knowledgeable traveler or travel agent would have consider include:

1. If my cruise goes forward, what can I expect on the ship? Will the cash issues of O negatively impact the passengers’ experience with respect to service, food, excursions, etc?

2. If I cancel the cruise under O’s Covid-19 liberal cancelation policy for sailings before 9/30, will my FCC be worth anything given  O’s possible bankruptcy? What is my risk of being an unsecured creditor ultimately getting nothing in a multi-year bankruptcy?

There are other legitimate concerns for anyone considering booking, but the above 2 will certainly slow new bookings to a crawl Even before one factors in the impact of Covid-19.

Can't understand why anyone would want to schlep a tux and dressy clothes to Alaska. These are port intensive cruises with lots of on-shore opportunities. Might want to look at other more casual up-scale lines.

ORV's post points out that at best Oceania is totally disingenuous, and probably spreading blatantly false information-with one goal to increase the bottom line.

Point of fact, licensed independent guides will get your visa as a part of their services. All you have to do when engaging a guide pre trip is to provide passport details. They handle the rest, and you walk off the ship with no, zero issues. Oceania needs to tell the truth and not hood-wink passengers!

The perfect plaintiff is the lounge piano player-many hours every day in a death trap.

There's an article in today's Wall Street Journal about airfare pricing, showing that the same roundtrip often varies dramatically depending on which city you start. Generally flights originating in the US cost more. One person quoted used points to get to Israel so that his regular round trips can now originate there, with huge savings. AFAIK there is no "right" to uniform pricing. Everybody charges what they can to maximize revenue.

 

My guess is that Azamara thought this cruise would be very popular because of the New Year's fireworks and priced it accordingly, but not enough cabins were selling so they decided to dump them and hope for big spenders. BWDIK?

It's called screwing the customer. The airlines are pros at this. Looks like the cruise lines are not far behind.

it is called Regional pricing ...in other Countries they give different brochures & prices in local currency ( I am guessing on this point)

The UK seem to get prices in GBP

Australians get prices in AUD

 

Maybe the laws outside of North America have to show the real price & not the marketing games that go on here

 

Looking at your cruise on the US site it appears all cat below A3 have some availability not sure how it works there but if you want a lower Cat maybe you can request it ????

It is well past the time for the "big 3" RCL, CCL and NCL, to exercise their collective muscle and push hard for uniform pricing and policies within the industry and client home countries. The current state of affairs is crazy and really doesn't add dollars to the lines bottom line. Except for converting pounds to dollars, UK clients should have the same pricing and policies as those of us in the U.S. enjoy. Travel agents and arcain laws should not be allowed to put non- US clients in a non- competitive position. It is time for some hutspuh to be used.

The revenue bean-counters really do not want you to see the total picture of unsold cabins for any voyage. With that information, you have an advantage on when to book and lock in your fare. Not much different than how top tier hotels and resorts operate.

If you were Oceania's captain of the day, would you readily share this information?

Some bed-time reading for Rick Meadows from the UK final report on the Star Princess fire:

SYNOPSIS

At 0309 (UTC+5) on 23 March 2006, a fire was detected on board the cruise ship Star Princess. The ship was on passage from Grand Cayman to Montego Bay, Jamaica, with

2690 passengers and 1123 crew on board. The fire was investigated by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) on behalf of the Bermuda Maritime Administration, in co-operation with the United States Coast Guard (USCG), and the United States’ National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

The fire started on an external stateroom balcony sited on deck 10 in the centre of main vertical zone 3, on the vessel’s port side. It was probably caused by a discarded cigarette end heating combustible materials on a balcony, which smouldered for about 20 minutes before flames developed. Once established, the fire spread rapidly along adjacent balconies and, assisted by a strong wind over the deck, it spread up to decks 11 &12 and onto stateroom balconies in fire zones 3 and 4 within 6 minutes. After a further 24 minutes, it had spread to zone 5. The fire also spread into the staterooms as the heat of the fire shattered the glass

in stateroom balcony doors, but was contained by each stateroom’s fixed fire-smothering system, the restricted combustibility of their contents, and their thermal boundaries. As the fire progressed, large amounts of dense black smoke were generated from the combustible materials on the balconies, and the balcony partitions. This smoke entered the adjacent staterooms and alleyways, and hampered the evacuation of the passengers, particularly on deck 12. One passenger died as a result of smoke inhalation, and 13 others were treated for the effects of the smoke.

A number of factors were identified which indicate that, although the balconies met the fire protection requirements of SOLAS II-2, the basic principles of this regulation did not apply to these, or other, external areas. These included:

• The balconies’ polycarbonate partitions, polyurethane deck tiles, and the plastic furniture were highly combustible and produced large quantities of very thick black smoke when burned.

• The glass in the doors between the staterooms and balconies were neither fire rated to meet with the requirements of an ‘A’ class division, nor self-closing.

• The balconies crossed main zone fire boundaries, both horizontally and vertically without structural or thermal barriers at the zone or deck boundaries.

• No fire detection or fire suppression systems were fitted on the balconies.

The fire was extinguished within 1.5 hours after it had started. The crew fought the fire

with water hoses from adjacent external areas, and from internal alleyways. Difficulty was experienced in reaching the fire due to the construction and partitioning of the balcony areas. A total of 79 staterooms were condemned after the fire, and a further 218 were damaged by fire, smoke, or water. The damaged area covered 3 vertical fire zones on 5 decks.

bbwex

 

+1

+2

Just to add a little more sanity to some of the above comments:

-it is highly likely Oceania may still not know all the causes of the fire or the exact cause of the 3 souls who died.

-Also they likely do not know the total extent of damage or repair issues.

-And finally in today's litigious society, any statements will be carefully prepared and few in number. No CEO is going to ignore his counsel.

-To infer that Oceania is hiding something or slow on releasing details is baseless at this point.

Earth to Cashew14:

Age does not always equal maturity or behavior. I have been exposed to numerous 20-30 year old "adults" who act like children.

The NTSB will at some point have a report that will be available to the public.

They may also have a preliminary report available now or shortly. But it may take a FOI request to get it.

Insignia is hanging out just outside San Juan port with 5 tugs as company. As she moves into the harbor will probably have one tug on each corner due to lack of maneuverability and Boulder pulling.

Marine Traffic still shows Insignia still docked in St. Lucia. Apparent that the earliest she will leave is in am. San Juan is roughly 450 mm. Therefore looks like Late Monday before she reaches drydocks at the earliest.

my experience is that the majority of lines are very reluctant to share group booking information for the obvious reason- it can turn-off potential bookings.

Our last AZ had about 150-200 alumni from about 4 or 5 colleges. Fortunately no real issues except taking over lounges at cocktail time a couple of nights.

Checked Marine Traffic a few minutes ago and Insignia is still in port at St. Lucia. She has a lot of company today as the Carnival Valor, Seabourn Spirit and MSC Musica are also in port.

The tug Boulder is now only 50 nautical miles away- should be there around

3pm.

Just spent some time on Marine Traffic web site and noted that:

Insignia is still docked in St. Lucia.

There is one tug, Boulder, off the coast of South America heading to St. Lucia at 12 knots. Due to arrive 1pm tomorrow.

Marine Traffic does not show any other ocean tugs heading to St. Lucia.

Just posted by the St. Lucia News Online:

"The cruise vessel, Insignia, which has been docked at Port Castries for close to six days, after a fire broke out in the engine room and as a result took three lives, will be leaving St. Lucia tomorrow.

Reports are that the vessel will be towed to Puerto Rico tomorrow, to facilitate repairs. Two South Korean contractors and a Filipino crew member were those that died in the inferno.

Post mortem examinations are scheduled to be done sometime this week, after which the bodies will be flow back home.

An investigation is being led by the Marshall Islands, where the ship is registered, and the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board has sent officials there to help."

One change that affected both Captain McNeill and GM Magnato greatly was neither of them could have a drop of alcohol the entire cruise. This is an NCL policy that took place immediately aboard Oceania ships. They had ginger ale for all the toasts. I thought the least Oceania could do is provide non-alcoholic champagne which is readily available and at least gives the feel of champagne. As a non-drinker I've had it often and really like it:)

Maybe My view is tainted, but this seems unusually harsh. Not even a beer on a 14 day or longer cruise?? This seems counter to the many other cruise lines we have been on. Also, will this be a negative recruiting good officers.

Wonder if this is an over-reaction to Costa's Concordia's Captain?

Kiawahdon,

 

You man want to read the OP's Post #1 again. He claims the May cruise he has booked will be his 3rd cruise on Oceania and his 2nd cruise on Marina. That means the OP has thus far taken only 2 cruises on Oceania.

Point taken. I just get upset with anyone who is critical of O getting beat up. Every cruise line has its issues on occasion- some more than other.

This post got me thinking- if I cancelled every time I talked to someone in customer service that was uninterested, tired, or bored with my questions I pretty sure I wouldn't have TV cable, charge cards, checking, car, phone, power, and EVERYTHING else I own!!!!!!!

Before you put down your Pom poems and flame the OP, you might want to research their previous post and note that this is their fourth O cruise. Just maybe, the OP has a valid point.

Maybe Seabourn needs to be reminded of this.

 

We will be taking our second Seabourn cruise in January, and I really hope that smoke is not an issue for this cruise because we will be onboard for three weeks. Fortunately, our first cruise was smoke free on the verandah; but if there is the smell of smoke out on our verandah for this coming up cruise, it will be our last with Seabourn until they change their smoking policy.

I sincerely hope you do not lose the veranda/smoking lottery on an expensive cruise.

Thanks for your reply, Keith. I cannot honestly say that our cruise was ruined, but we were able to use our verandah only at rare times due to clouds of smoke coming from our neighbor's verandah. She was a chain-smoker. And the consistent smoke in the observation lounge bar caused many passengers, including a group for my birthday party, to leave for more smoke-free areas. Unfortunately on such a small ship, there was only one other inside bar, and the music there was often quite loud. So it's dangerous, unhealthy for all including non-smokers, and unpleasant. Also sets up a strange dynamic in which a small number of possibly valued passengers dictate policy that affects everyone. Strange form of exclusivity.

Precisely why you almost have to be certifiable to spend the money to book on Seabourn until they join the 21st century.

Whatever flowery rhetoric RCCL uses to describe the Celebrity new builds (for instance, what exactly is Modern Luxury?) I'd still not describe them in any shape or form as 'premium'.

 

The relevant point though, is that RCCL sees fit to announce yet another 2 ships for the brand. The only serious vote of confidence by the parent company is its commitment in terms of tonnage. I can't believe Celebrity is getting another two vessels after barely a pause of breath following on completion of the Solstice class.

 

I'm another one who thinks Azamara's future will be within the extended Celebrity brand.

You may well be right. A 2 ship line is not long for this world.

If I was LP, I would fold Az into X and give it a catchy name e.g. Celebrity Explortion. I would kill the free alcohol and focus on extended itineraries all over the planet. Lots of overnights and exotic ports that can't handle the X bemouths. All you have to do is look at the success of Oceania's 2 world cruises on Regatta in '15 to understand the market nitch of longer cruises on an smaller ship/environment. Spend the dollars to upgrade , put under the X umbrella, and rethink the itineraries and I firmly believe RCL will have a winner.

Rather than quote the whole PR release, a few salient quotes:

-The two 2,900-guest, 117,000-gross-registered-ton ships--- this is a space ratio of 40. Hardly a "premium ship. Not sure how 2,900 of your closest friends can be called premium.

-Celebrity brand has achieved in the premium segment of our industry," said Richard D. Fain, chairman and chief executive officer of Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. - Since when is Celebrity a premium brand? What does that make Seabourn, Crystal, Regent, Silver Sea, etc? Chopped liver?

-"Our new class of ship will set the standard for premium world travel and deliver the next generation of modern luxury experiences. Where does this leave Azamara? Looks a lot to me on the beach- sorry, but RCL's continued investment in every brand but Azamara, can not be good news.

Below is the "order book" as compiled by SeaTradeInsider. There are several things to note. First, the passenger space ratio (tonnage/berths). Next, and most important is the last figure, the cost of the ship per berth. The differences are dramatic and can quickly explain cruise fares/day. It is the same measure the hotel industry uses. RCCL's new mega ships are in the cost/ berth around $246k while Seabourn is at over

$447K. Wonder why the cost/day is higher on Seabourn? The bean counters have to recover the "berth" cost over a predetermined time. There are a lot of trade-offs in the chart below including passenger space, passenger load and shear size of the ship. It gets down to : what floats YOUR boat.

Order Book

2015

Cruise Line Ship Name Yard Gross Lower Berths Delivery Reported Price ($) Cost Berth ($)

Compagnie du Ponant Le Lyrial Fincantieri 10,700 264 Spring $134m $507,575.76

P&O Cruises Britannia Fincantieri 141,000 3611 March $804m*** $222,653.00

Royal Caribbean Anthem of the Seas Meyer Werft 167,800 4180 March $1032m* $246,889.95

TUI Cruises Mein Schiff 4 Meyer Turku Yard 99,700 2500 April $515m** $206,000.00

Viking Cruises Viking Star Fincantieri 47,800 930 May $308m* $331,182.80

AIDA Cruises AIDAprima Mitsubishi HI 125,000 3250 September $650m*** $200,000.00

Norwegian Cruise Line Norwegian Escape Meyer Werft 164,600 4200 October $916m** $218,095.24

2016

Cruise Line Ship Name Yard Gross Lower Berths Delivery Reported Price ($) Cost Berth ($)

Regent Seven Seas Cruises Seven Seas Explorer Fincantieri 54,000 738 Winter $450m $609,756.10

Viking Cruises Viking Sky Fincantieri 47,800 930 summer $308m* $331,182.80

Viking Cruises Viking Sea Fincantieri 47,800 930 Spring $308m* $331,182.80

TUI Cruises Mein Schiff 5 Meyer Turku Yard 99,700 2500 Winter $515m* $206,000.00

Holland America Line Koningsdam Fincantieri 99,500 2660 February $518m** $195,037.59

AIDA Cruises unnamed Mitsubishi HI 125,000 3250 March $650m*** $200,000.00

Carnival Cruise Lines Carnival Vista Fincantieri 133,500 4000 April $780m** $195,000.00

Royal Caribbean International Ovation of the Seas Meyer Werft 167,800 4180 May $1032m* $246,889.95

Royal Caribbean International Oasis 3 STX France 227,700 5400 June $1.3bn* $240,740.74

Seabourn unnamed Fincantieri 40,350 604 Autumn 270m* $447,019.87

Genting HK (Star Cruises) unnamed Meyer Werft 150,000 3364 October $960m $285,374.55

2017

Cruise Line Ship Name Yard Gross Lower Berths Delivery Reported Price ($) Cost Berth ($)

MSC Cruises unnamed STX France 167,600 4500 January $1032m $229,333.33

Princess Cruises unnamed Fincantieri 143,000 3560 Winter $804m $225,842.70

TUI Cruises Mein Schiff 6 Meyer Turku Yard 99,700 2500 Winter $515m* $206,000.00

Norwegian Cruise Line Norwegian Bliss Meyer Werft 164,600 4200 Spring $845m ** $201,190.48

Genting HK (Star Cruises) unnamed Meyer Werft 150,000 3364 October $960m $285,374.55

MSC Cruises unnamed Fincantieri 154,000 4140 November $953m*** $230,331.88

2018

Cruise Line Ship Name Yard Gross Lower Berths Delivery Reported Price ($) Cost Berth ($)

Royal Caribbean International Oasis 4 STX France 227,700 5400 Winter $1.4m* $259,259.26

Norwegian Cruise Line Breakaway-Plus Meyer Werft 164,600 4200 Spring $1087m** $258,809.52

MSC Cruises unnamed Fincantieri 154,000 4140 May $953m*** $230,331.88

2019

Cruise Line Ship Name Yard Gross Lower Berths Delivery Reported Price ($) Cost Berth ($)

MSC Cruises unnamed STX France 167,600 4500 Spring $1032m $229,333.33

Norwegian Cruise Line Breakaway-Plus Meyer Werft 164,600 4200 Autumn $1087m** $258,809.52