Barcelona17

Thanks. That was very helpful. It sounds very similar to RC.

dcl

Does NCL provide cabin upgrades and how does it work? Is it through a bidding process?

dcl

Does anyone know anything about the VIP restaurant on the new MSC Seascape??

Thanks everyone. Very helpful!

dcl

When Divina stops at Ocean Cay over night are all of the extra food services in the Yacht Club suspended? I.E. does the sun deck serve food? Are their snacks in the lounge? And is the spa open?

Thanks

dcl

20 hours ago, Até said:

I've had some difficulties depending on the phone agent, but in every case I've been able to get the discount applied to an existing booking as long as it's before final payment.  Even after final I've been able to negotiate the discount along with a cabin upgrade.

I have a booking for December in the Mediterranean and only got the 5% discount. After reading this thread I called and asked if I was entitled to the additional 10% and got it. No problems. The MSC agent was very pleasant.

dcl

I just booked an inside YC cabin for one on the Grandiosa for a December 2021 sailing round trip from Barcelona for 7 days. Price was $1055.00. Cant really beat that. I think the suite was around $2000.00.

dcl

I don't question what many of you are describing about MSC customer service, but I have never experience anything but excellent service directly from MSC staff. Have cruised four times with them...booking directly and they have moved staterooms, changed cruises and transferred deposits from one to the other. Every issue I have raised over the phone or on board has been handled fast and to my satisfaction. Just saying.

If you call them as I did yesterday, the official line is.... "The schedule has not changed. All sailings still happening." But the MSC agent thanked me for the heads up. ? ?????

13 hours ago, drakes2 said:

Well maybe its time for them to pack up and go home. I, for one, have not been happy with how they handled themselves throughout this pandemic.

Who are you talking about?

There is a simple solution to this issue, however, there is a slight problem with it. We could all simply contact Celebrity and threaten to cancel our cruise if required to provide a Dr's certificate. The problem is: we will be competing with Celebrity as to who can cancel the cruise first.  As I think most of the cruises we are concerned with are going to be canceled one way or the other. If after the virus is contained and it seems safe to travel and Celebrity continues requiring a Dr's certificate, there will be plenty of cruise lines wanting our business and not requiring a Dr's certificate. And for those of you not required to get a Dr's certificate, you can enjoy all of the extra room and empty spaces on Celebrity ships. Win Win for everyone, except, of course, Celebrity. The big problem is for those of you taking FCC. Doesn't really seem like a good bet for anyone. Since we are finding out just how much leeway the cruise lines have to change offerings and adjust previous commitments, cash in hand seems much better than that 25% extra FCC.

28 minutes ago, travelordie said:

OK, I did a search.  Only 2% of Italian seniors live in nursing homes.  Most Italian deaths among seniors were not in nursing homes.

I won't dispute your figure, but it may not tell the whole story. There still appear to be a lot of deaths in the nursing homes throughout Europe, including Italy according to recent study at London School of Economics. They estimate in Italy, Spain, France, Ireland and Belgium between 42% and 57% of the virus deaths are in care homes. And you must realize many elderly deaths in Italy are seniors who in most countries would be in a care home. As you point out, Italy's system of taking care of the elderly is much more family based. Whatever the stats and numbers are..I think it is obvious this form and the associated policy is a red herring only implemented to make it appear the cruise lines are addressing the issue, however superficially.

dc l

5 minutes ago, travelordie said:

It seems that the cruise lines can't agree on an answer.  Some cruise line websites state 70 and older whereas other cruise line websites say over 70.  Some even appear internally inconsistent.  The Azamara website states over 70 but the sample physician letter on the Azamara website states "70 or older".

And does this instill confidence that the cruise lines have their act together and can keep us safe. Actually, I think, if the cruise lines are requiring our doctor to guarantee that we are healthy enough to travel safely...they should be prepared to guarantee all healthy passengers are safe and should have no concern about cruising. I would love to see that guarantee from cruise lines.

dcl 

26 minutes ago, travelordie said:

In Canada, almost half the seniors who died were in long term care homes.  The remainder were not. Within Canada, the percentages were dramatically different from one province to another just as I'm sure they differ between one European country and another.  If you know what percentage of Italian seniors who died were in long term care homes, please post the statistics.   

 

The point remains that it is blatant age discrimination to require a physician's letter for cruisers who are 70 or older.  Sometimes governments make unfair decisions but in this case, it was the CLIA, the organization which represents most cruise lines, that came up with the absurd decision to ban travel for those 70 or older unless they can coerce their physician to sign a letter.

Just do a search on the web for "percent of virus deaths in Italian nursing homes" and you will get all sorts of articles and stats regarding Italian nursing homes. Percents, numbers, reasons, etc. change daily.

On 4/12/2020 at 6:56 PM, travelordie said:

Italy just published figures showing death rates versus age.  To the best of my knowledge, these are not confounded by large populations of seniors confined to old age homes.

 

Sorry. My comments are for travelordie.

Well. I think your just wrong. Statistics are now coming out from Europe and around the world that a large percentage (in many areas up to 50%) of deaths are being attributed to those in nursing homes. So what this form is going to accomplish is keeping nursing home patients from cruising (can't remember last time I met a nursing home resident on a cruise) and most of those over 70, healthy or not. It will do little to keep those with underlying illnesses from cruising and until a vaccine is produced cruising will not be safe and there will be deaths on cruise ships regardless of their silly form. I do think this policy is shortsighted and a poor attempt at avoiding liability, but perhaps we are better off. Regardless of all the fondness and loyalty being displayed on this site for cruising and the cruiselines....cruising is not safe and never will be until we have a vaccine and this virus is contained. Period. And no amount of proselytizing or manipulating statistics is going to change that.

8 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

The cases may be normalizing across the population, but the deaths aren't.  As of April 7, my state (Washington) had reported 441 deaths from Covid.  92% of the fatalities were aged 60 and older.

And what percentage of those were nursing home residents. I'm all for requiring nursing home residents to have a doctor's note. In fact, it may be standard procedure for many nursing homes when allowing residents to travel anywhere by any means. But that is a far cry from requiring healthy 70 years old to obtain a note.

dcl

1 hour ago, bEwAbG said:

 

If you don't understand how that is the ultimate false equivalence, I'm not sure it would help to engage further. 

 

Regardless, it will be up to the cruise lines to announce their policy, if any.  If you feel compelled to test it in court, then by all means try.

I apologize if I'm missing your point, but all I am saying is the scientists have pointed out that both of these groups are more susceptible to Covid19 because both groups have a much higher degree of underlying health issues, as they relate to Covid19, than other groups. What am I not understanding?

dcl

2 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

 

The industry hasn't said what they will do, so I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that some form of age-based requirement won't be in force when sailings resume.  The policy is still on the Celebrity website in several places with no indication that it's been reversed.  It also applies to any high risk person with a chronic condition, not just those over 70. 

 

Businesses can discriminate based on physical ability, especially if it's being backed by governments.  The example of restrictions placed on pregnant women is one.  Saying that a vulnerable population needs a medical clearance would fall into that category, too, and they could set the age at whatever they wanted to.  Now that most countries have made it clear that cruise line companies will be on the hook for these situations in the future, you can bet they're going to do everything possible to reduce their liability.

So are you suggesting that since it is emerging that the African-American community is being hit much harder by this virus than any other ethnic group, that the cruise lines should consider requiring them to provide a doctor's note. We are now discovering that in Chicago 68.9 percent of deaths by the virus are African-Americans and in Louisiana 70 percent. And to make these numbers worse they are greater than the percent of the population of African-Americans in these areas. The Surgeon General of the US just stated "While everyone  is susceptible to Covid-19 black Americans are at a higher risk". This whole conversation gets more and more surreal. Who is next?

dcl

Well I think we can shut this discussion down. Now that we are discovering that there are other groups of people who are very high risk for "the virus",  there is no way seniors can be singled out. Any discrimination is ugly and the more groups discriminated against makes it even uglier. I think the cruise lines eventually realized they have to deal with the virus not the different groups of passengers that might get it. It was ludicrous from the beginning to think you could make a difference in a pandemic by singling out one minority group.

dcl

I think as this discussion continues we each need to clarify what policy we are addressing. The policy regarding 70+ and COVID-19 is totally different than the policy requiring 70+ being required to obtain a doctor's note once COVID-19 is not an issue.

dcl

Does anyone have a sense about the future of the MSC Virtuosa and how delayed its construction might be with all that is going on. I am scheduled to sail from Barcelona on December 4, 2020. I simply can't imagine it will makes its October 2020 completion deadline.

dcl

I canceled a cruise on Celebrity Infinity for April 11th on Mar 8th. I canceled under the Cruise With Confidence offer. The total cost of cruise was $2198.  A week later I received $1045 in FCC and about a week and a half after that, I received a credit on my CC for $1153. Celebrity was very fair and I am a happy camper.

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Reading through this thread from the beginning, there are many who have concluded a Doc wouldn't sign the form.   But from what I read all of those are just guesses, and you can make your own guess as to how accurate they might be. 

 

Of those who say they actually talked to their Doc, some have received a sign-off, and others have been told it would not be signed because they have a medical condition that puts them at risk.  And, to be fair, there was one Doc that said, in so many words, no one should be taking a cruise right now.   

And your point is?

This is the latest from their web page:

As with our announcement yesterday regarding U.S. sailings, we expect to return to service on April 11, 2020.