Need scooter advice

My mother has trouble walking long distances (knee problems) and needs to rent a scooter for our upcoming Europe trip and cruise. We are beginners at this, so any insight is appreciated. I have three questions:

1. Can anyone recommend a good scooter for someone who is 300lbs? I have been researching and found that very few scooters have this capacity, and if they do, they are heavy power chairs. We are trying to go as light as possible - this scooter is more of a help than a necessity. I know these type of scooters must be out there! I have read positive feedback on the Travelscoot (along with the Mytravelscoot blog), but am wondering how effectively that scooter functions with a heavier individual. I know it must drain the battery more, but I'm wondering how bad it is. Does anyone have any experience with being heavier & using a Travelscoot?

2. When you rent a scooter, what do you typically receive along with it? Do the rental companies just provide one battery/charger, or do they also provide a spare? It's my nightmare that we end up in Europe with a broken scooter battery or we get a scooter with too much wear and tear (i.e., weaker battery from too many uses). If anyone has any specific rental company recommendations, I'd love to hear them.

3. Also, any advice on flying with a scooter? I have read that bringing the scooter shouldn't be a problem carry-on wise, but have seen lately that some batteries (lithium ones?) are no longer allowed on planes. Are most scooter batteries lithium? How do people handle this?

Thanks so much in advance!

Hi!

I'm Elizabeth, the one who writes the MyTravelScoot blog, at http://mytravelscoot.blogspot.com. I am over 400 lbs., so I have a lot of experience with scooting at a larger size. Maybe I can help answer your questions.

1. I do not know of any lightweight scooters other than the TravelScoot that will work for someone who weighs 300 lbs. Even with the TravelScoot you'll need a "can do" attitude to get the best performance out of your scoot.

When I went on a cruise to Cozumel and Progresso recently, I took my double lithium ion battery and my single lithium ion battery. You will most definitely want to have two batteries with you, whether it's a lithium ion and an SLA, or just two lithium ions.

Also, you're going to have different experiences depending on your mom's exact weight. If she is only 300 lbs., she's going to do fine with the batteries in most situations. If she's 450 lbs., she's going to have more problems, but it's still very possible. My friend borrowed a TravelScoot for the cruise we went on, and she's about 350 lbs. She had the single lithium ion battery and an SLA battery but only used the scoot while we were in port. She was able to go all day, but at some point had to change to the second battery. The double lithium ion battery lasted me all day, but you will not find anyone who rents a TravelScoot with a double lithium ion battery, and two single lithium ion batteries aren't the same as a double lithium ion battery. With the double lithium ion battery you'll be able to handle inclines better. Inclines are the toughest part for a larger person using a TravelScoot. You mom will need some experience riding the scoot to get a better understanding of it, but it's important to approach an incline head on and with a running start. You don't ever want to stop on an incline or turn in the middle of it. For some inclines it's better to get off the scoot and just walk it up. One thing that can happen on an incline is that the lithium ion battery can overload. That's because it's a smart battery and it's protecting itself from getting damaged. I've written several posts on the blog about it. You can read them at http://mytravelscoot.blogspot.com/search?q=overload.

2. I've rented standard scooters several times before I had my TravelScoot. They only provided one battery and charger. For one rental I had a battery that really needed replacing, so I was having to charge it every time I stopped anywhere or it would go dead. THAT was a nightmare. Just recently TravelScoots have become available for rent. The company I'm familiar with is http://www.scootanywhere.com/. I haven't rented from there, but the owner uses a TravelScoot himself, so he's quite familiar with them.

3. To fly with a scooter you should let your airline know in advance about it. You will be able to get a gate check tag for it and drive it to the door of the plane. If you're using a TravelScoot they'll be able to take it and store it where they store the baby strollers. I don't know how they handle other types of scooters.

I know of hundreds of cases where people have flown with lithium ion batteries and have had only one report of a problem on Alaska Airlines that could not be verified. (The problem was reported in a comment posted on my blog.) Candy Harrington has also written an article about her research into the issue. That might have been what you read. Hardy Huber, the TravelScoot inventor (and frequent flyer), wrote an article about flying with the TravelScoot that you might find helpful. It's at http://mytravelscoot.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-and-easier-way-of-airline-travel.html. You can also read what the Department of Transportation has to say about it at http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html. If you look at the last sentence of the article, it says, "Lithium ion batteries rated over 300 watt-hours (25 g ELC) are forbidden." The single lithium ion battery is 24 g, which falls within their guidelines.

If you do not want to take a chance on flying with a lithium ion battery, there is also a sealed lead acid battery for the TravelScoot.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Elizabeth

I just wanted to add that an absolute advantage of the TravelScoot is that it weighs 34 lbs., WITH the lithium ion battery, and if you need to fold it up, with practice it can be folded or unfolded easily in less than a minute. It will fit in the trunk of a car with room for other stuff, and the scooter itself fits in MUCH smaller places than most other standard scooters.

I have a travelscoot and consider myself obese but don't weigh 300 lbs. I've had no problem with my lithium battery. I think the problem with the Alaska Air flight is well documented as is the problem that the batteries may explode if they are allowed to get very hot - like in a car parked in the sun. I am hopeful that the rules from the FAA will come down as requiring the batteries to be placed inside the plane (conditioned air and able to see them if a problem develops) rather than in the hold. Although the hold will get cold while flying if we are stuck on the tarmac I can see that it could get too hot for them to be there.

I'm sorry for the lateness of my reply, but I just wanted to say thank you, thank you, THANK YOU to Elizabeth and Katisdale for your advice! :) You have no idea how helpful it was. Elizabeth, I've read your blog quite a bit so to actually have you reply was great, thank you. The blog is actually what got me thinking about the Travelscoot for a larger person, and based on what you've said, I think it is feasible for us. I'm glad to hear that the larger size doesn't hinder the Travelscoot too badly, because the weight limits on the official Travelscoot site had made me nervous as to performance. I just wish there wasn't so many issues with the batteries/flying, but nothing is perfect. Hopefully I will be able to report back soon on our experiences with the Travelscoot.

I'm sorry for the lateness of my reply, but I just wanted to say thank you, thank you, THANK YOU to Elizabeth and Katisdale for your advice! :) You have no idea how helpful it was. Elizabeth, I've read your blog quite a bit so to actually have you reply was great, thank you. The blog is actually what got me thinking about the Travelscoot for a larger person, and based on what you've said, I think it is feasible for us. I'm glad to hear that the larger size doesn't hinder the Travelscoot too badly, because the weight limits on the official Travelscoot site had made me nervous as to performance. I just wish there wasn't so many issues with the batteries/flying, but nothing is perfect. Hopefully I will be able to report back soon on our experiences with the Travelscoot.

FYI A while back when I was checking out rentals ran across http://www.shipscooters.com/ which now rents the Travelscoot. Before investing in one you might even consider renting one for a few days to see if it fits your needs. It does not have a reverse gear so it needs to be pushed by feet to go in reverse. Some people aren't able to that. Other than that it appears to be a very good option for those that can handle the manuel reverse.

I am a 250 pound Travelscoot owner and have used it on two cruises so far, one was a Med/Transatlantic and I just wanted to say that the Scoot performed well over the cobblestones in Europe (we were in Rome and ports of call in Spain). If your concerned about the Li-ion battery the SLA battery and the Travelscoot is still under 50 pounds with this battery. Elizabeth was a big help in my decision to get the Travelscoot and I don't regret it. For me not having a reverse is not an issue as I am physically able to push the scooter backwards....I call it the "Flintstone Reverse" :D

I'm glad I was able to help! I agree with what Katisdale says about getting an SLA battery if you're concerned about flying with the lithium ion battery. I think it's a good idea to have one of each anyway, because the SLA battery isn't sensitive to heat and can be left in the trunk of a vehicle. It makes it more convenient. Heavier though, but then you have a 29-lb scoot and a 20-lb battery, which is still lighter than anything else out there that I'm aware of, ESPECIALLY for larger people.

Because I can easily push a few steps backwards with my scoot I don't see the lack of a reverse as a handicap, and it allows the scoot to be several pounds lighter. The TravelScoot isn't a scooter where you just sit and push a button and it goes. You'll find yourself interacting with it and with a little practice it becomes a really neat mobility tool that will carry you through some places you wouldn't think you could go.

I'm sorry for the lateness of my reply, but I just wanted to say thank you, thank you, THANK YOU to Elizabeth and Katisdale for your advice! :) You have no idea how helpful it was. Elizabeth, I've read your blog quite a bit so to actually have you reply was great, thank you. The blog is actually what got me thinking about the Travelscoot for a larger person, and based on what you've said, I think it is feasible for us. I'm glad to hear that the larger size doesn't hinder the Travelscoot too badly, because the weight limits on the official Travelscoot site had made me nervous as to performance. I just wish there wasn't so many issues with the batteries/flying, but nothing is perfect. Hopefully I will be able to report back soon on our experiences with the Travelscoot.

My mom has a Travelscoot and we've flown with it several times. She has one of the smaller lithium ion batteries. We researched the rules carefully before we flew the first time and, the smaller lithium ion battery is acceptable for taking on flights (just barely by the way). In reading the DOT rules on spare batteries, it seems to me the battery must be carried with us into the passenger cabin and cannot be put in checked baggage or in the hold.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/tips.html

So, we always gate check the Travelscoot (either in its large bag or leaving it assembled) but we remove the lithium ion battery, isolate each cable end in a separate zip-lock plastic bag and carry the battery, in its own separate carry-on with nothing else touching it, into the passenger cabin.

It seems to me that the answer of packing the loose battery or batteries in a cloth bag that is then stored in the hold with the Travelscoot does not comport with DOT rules.

The DOT's stated reason for taking the lithium ion battery into the passenger cabin is that, should it overheat and catch fire for some reason, it is much safer for such a fire to start in the passenger cabin where flight attendants can deal with it (as opposed to in the hold where they cannot).

I have done a lot of research n this matter, and it should be noted that things have drastically changed. The PHMSA (DOT agency that has jurisdiction in this issue) recently issued their interpretation of the regs re: mobility devices with lithium-ion batteries. In short, airlines are prohibited from carrying them. So if you want to travel by air, I certainly would look into another option. the regs are rapidly changing in order to keep up with technology. Here's my latest update (that is publically available). http://barrierfreetravels.com/serendipity/archives/571-US-Airlines-Prohibited-From-Transporting-Lithium-Ion-Powered-Scooters.html

so although many have flown with them in the past, it appears a change is in the air in the future.

Candy Harrington

I have done a lot of research n this matter, and it should be noted that things have drastically changed. The PHMSA (DOT agency that has jurisdiction in this issue) recently issued their interpretation of the regs re: mobility devices with lithium-ion batteries. In short, airlines are prohibited from carrying them. So if you want to travel by air, I certainly would look into another option. the regs are rapidly changing in order to keep up with technology. Here's my latest update (that is publically available). http://barrierfreetravels.com/serendipity/archives/571-US-Airlines-Prohibited-From-Transporting-Lithium-Ion-Powered-Scooters.html

 

 

I have a Travelscoot and fly on various airlines every couple weeks.

 

I spoke to the FAA person who sits on the hazardous goods commitee a couple weeks back.

 

We discussed Lithium ion batteries. The issue arises between batteries for mobility devices and 'spare larger lithium ion batteries'.

 

The rules currently conflict. They say that mobility device batteries must be stored in the hold where lithium batteries up to 25 gms lithium content must go in the cabin if not installed in the mobility device.

For my Travelscoot the 24gm lithium battery isn't practicle to leave installed as the scooter folds up. It therefore must go in the cabin according to FAA regs. I have only had one problem on a US based airline flight. Since then I got a letter from Delta stating that the battery can fly in the cabin (it costs $600 so I hate to let it out of my sight).

 

The FAA person said there may be new regulations issued in the next 3 to 4 months. I asked her to try to resolve the conflict in rules for the Lithium Ion batteries and mobility device batteries and she said that would be something they work on.

 

Perhaps the Alaska Airlines flight involved a larger than 25gm battery?

The Alaska incident is something that was posted on my blog (http://mytravelscoot.blogspot.com) 4 months ago by a reader making a comment. She said she had the 24 gram battery and was told the FAA only allows lead acid batteries on mobility devices except for Segways. She asked if anyone else had ever had this problem. No one responded that they had.

I pointed her to the DOT and FAA web pages on lithium ion batteries (http://safetravel.dot.gov/larger_batt.html) and suggested she print information to keep with her battery. I understand there may be clarifications and/or changes being discussed by the powers that be, but the DOT site clearly says this:

"You are allowed one larger lithium ion battery installed in a device, plus up to 2 spare larger lithium ion batteries. These are in addition to any smaller lithium ion batteries. For smaller lithium ion batteries, just follow the Basic rules. Lithium ion batteries rated over 300 watt-hours (25 g ELC) are forbidden."

There is no mention on this page of mobility devices being handled differently. I know of hundreds of flights that have been made successfully with lithium ion batteries and a TravelScoot and this is the first report I've seen of a problem. According to both the FAA and DOT websites, lithium ion batteries are allowed, so what she was told was either wrong or misunderstood.

Agent 86, I've enjoyed reading all your recent TravelScoot posts. I hope this issue of conflicting rules is resolved favorably. It seems a given that more and more mobility equipment will be using lithium ion batteries, especially because they are so much lighter. Carrying a li-on battery that weighs 4 1/2 lbs is just a huge difference from carrying an SLA battery that weighs 20 lbs.

 

I have a Travelscoot and fly on various airlines every couple weeks.

 

I spoke to the FAA person who sits on the hazardous goods commitee a couple weeks back.

 

We discussed Lithium ion batteries. The issue arises between batteries for mobility devices and 'spare larger lithium ion batteries'.

 

The rules currently conflict. They say that mobility device batteries must be stored in the hold where lithium batteries up to 25 gms lithium content must go in the cabin if not installed in the mobility device.

For my Travelscoot the 24gm lithium battery isn't practicle to leave installed as the scooter folds up. It therefore must go in the cabin according to FAA regs. I have only had one problem on a US based airline flight. Since then I got a letter from Delta stating that the battery can fly in the cabin (it costs $600 so I hate to let it out of my sight).

 

The FAA person said there may be new regulations issued in the next 3 to 4 months. I asked her to try to resolve the conflict in rules for the Lithium Ion batteries and mobility device batteries and she said that would be something they work on.

 

Perhaps the Alaska Airlines flight involved a larger than 25gm battery?

Candy,

I just searched the PHMSA site and can't find where they issued their interpretation. Do you have a link?

Thanks,

Elizabeth

I have done a lot of research n this matter, and it should be noted that things have drastically changed. The PHMSA (DOT agency that has jurisdiction in this issue) recently issued their interpretation of the regs re: mobility devices with lithium-ion batteries. In short, airlines are prohibited from carrying them. So if you want to travel by air, I certainly would look into another option. the regs are rapidly changing in order to keep up with technology. Here's my latest update (that is publically available). http://barrierfreetravels.com/serendipity/archives/571-US-Airlines-Prohibited-From-Transporting-Lithium-Ion-Powered-Scooters.html

 

so although many have flown with them in the past, it appears a change is in the air in the future.

 

Candy Harrington

Hi Elizabeth,

Here is a link to the interpretation:

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/Interpretations/2010/100034.pdf

As the owner of a TravelScoot and a Lithium-ion battery of the size in dispute, 24g, I would also love to have the rules clearly stated and easily accessed.

Marlee

Thank you Marlee for forwarding the interpretation from DOT.

Like so much government regulation and interpretation it miss the point altogether. The purpose of the rules regarding batteries is safe transport.

Lithium ion batteries by their nature are potentially dangerous if mishandled (mostly if overheated there is a fire risk, remember the burning Sony laptop batteries a few years ago).

The interpretation draws a difference between 24 gram lithium content batteries for 'consumer electronics' and 24g Li content other batteries because we use them for a scooter. Well, it's not the USE that is important DOT it's the BATTERY. What difference does it make what we use it for?????

I am clinging to my FAA ray of hope that the new rules will seperate Li batteries and their use. The good news is that FAA sets the rules not DOT, although DOT enforces them.

In the meantime I will continue travelling without incident with my wonderful Travelscoot and it's 4.5lb. amazing battery.

Peter

Please keep us posted Peter on your successes and/or issues flying with your fabulous scooter and the lithium-ion battery.

Information is power.

I would love to hear the specifics in the letter from Delta about flying with the battery in the cabin and what had occurred that required the letter.

If you don't mind sharing....

Marlee

PS Just love your screen name....:cool:

Marlee,

Thank you for the link. I just tried digesting what is in the document and I appreciate Peter's comments on it too.

Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth,

 

Here is a link to the interpretation:

 

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/Interpretations/2010/100034.pdf

 

As the owner of a TravelScoot and a Lithium-ion battery of the size in dispute, 24g, I would also love to have the rules clearly stated and easily accessed.

 

Marlee

I would be happy to share a copy of the Delta Travelscoot lithium ion battery okay letter with everyone that would like one. I'm new to this forum. How does one contact people off line? Is there a way to send a PM or share an email address?

Thnx.

P.S. My dogs name is Maxwell Smart thus my handle.

My email address is elizabeth(at)ifisher(dot)com. It there's some way to send it through the forum I'm not familiar with it.

Thanks!

Elizabeth

I would be happy to share a copy of the Delta Travelscoot lithium ion battery okay letter with everyone that would like one. I'm new to this forum. How does one contact people off line? Is there a way to send a PM or share an email address?

 

Thnx.

 

P.S. My dogs name is Maxwell Smart thus my handle.

You can contact me at my first name followed immediately by 77 at roadrunner dot com

Poor agent 99...always missed it by that much

Thanks, Marlee