Solution to QM2 smoking arguments

[Berserker]

British law says no smoking in public buildings and cunard follow this law

 

This law does NOT apply to ships flying a British Flag. You keep posting that it does, but it does not.

[michael mac]

Quote from ROB6852

 

British law says no smoking in public buildings and cunard follow this law, simple as that.

 

 

Yes that's maybe correct, but I wonder how it effects the crew, under British law the couldn't smoke anywhere on the ship as its there place of work?

 

Michael Mac.

[Berserker]

s.5 Heath Act 2006:

 

Vehicles

 

(1) The appropriate national authority may make regulations providing for vehicles to be smoke-free.

(2) The regulations may in particular make provision—

(a) for the descriptions of vehicle which are to be smoke-free,

(b) for the circumstances in which they are to be smoke-free,

© for them to be smoke-free only in specified areas, or except in specified areas,

(d) for exemptions.

(3) The power to make regulations under this section is not exercisable in relation to—

(a) any ship or hovercraft in relation to which regulations could be made under section 85 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (c. 21) (safety and health on ships), including that section as applied by any Order in Council under section 1(1)(h) of the Hovercraft Act 1968 (c. 59), or

(b) persons on any such ship or hovercraft.

(4) In section 85 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, at the end add—

“(8) Safety regulations which make provision in respect of the prohibition of smoking on any ship (“the smoking provisions”) may include provision—

(a) for the appointment by the Secretary of State of persons to enforce the smoking provisions (whether in respect of ships generally or for any particular case or purpose), and for the removal of any person so appointed,

(b) for such persons (if they are not surveyors of ships appointed under section 256) to have the powers of such surveyors for the purposes of their enforcement functions,

© for any such persons to have, for the purposes of their enforcement functions, powers corresponding to those which authorised officers have under paragraphs 2(b) to (e), 3 and 4, as read with paragraphs 5 and 9, of Schedule 2 to the Health Act 2006 (which confers powers of entry, etc., on authorised officers of enforcement authorities in relation to the enforcement of the provisions of that Act in relation to smoking),

(d) in relation to an offence of smoking in a place where smoking is prohibited under the smoking provisions, for purposes corresponding to those of section 9 of and Schedule 1 to the Health Act 2006 (which provide for the giving by authorised officers of penalty notices in respect of such an offence).

In this subsection, “smoking” has the same meaning as in Chapter 1 of Part 1 of the Health Act 2006.”

(5) In this Chapter, “vehicle” means every type of vehicle, including train, vessel, aircraft and hovercraft.

 

The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007

 

(Made under the authority of the above named Act)

 

11.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, an enclosed vehicle and any enclosed part of a vehicle is smoke-free if it is used—

(a) by members of the public or a section of the public (whether or not for reward or hire); or

(b) in the course of paid or voluntary work by more than one person (even if those persons use the vehicle at different times, or only intermittently).

(2) A vehicle or part of a vehicle is enclosed for the purposes of paragraph (1) where it is enclosed wholly or partly by a roof and by any door or window that may be opened.

(3) Except where paragraph (4) applies, “roof” in paragraph (2) includes any fixed or moveable structure or device which is capable of covering all or part of the vehicle, including any canvas, fabric or other covering.

(4) In relation to a vehicle that is engaged in conveying persons, “roof” does not include any fixed or moveable structure or device which is completely stowed away so that it does not cover all or any part of the vehicle.

(5) A vehicle is not used in the course of paid or voluntary work for the purposes of paragraph (1)(b) where it is used primarily for the private purposes of a person who—

(a) owns it; or

(b) has a right to use it which is not restricted to a particular journey.

(6) This regulation applies to all vehicles other than—

(a) aircraft; or

(b) ships or hovercraft in respect of which regulations could be made under section 85 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995(6) (safety and health on ships), including that section as applied by any Order in Council under section 1(1)(h) of the Hovercraft Act 1968(7) or to persons on any such ships or hovercraft.

 

I think this now disposes of the question of whether the UK law applies on board - it does not.

[Berserker]

I wonder whether there is any scope to make the Atlantic room a smoking den. It doesn't appear to be used much, shares with the Commodore Club the fact that it is completely self contained and is large enough to contain a sensible number of people.

 

It's also close enough to the Commodore Club that there would be nothing against using the Commodore Club for the majority of smokers who would then want to sneak off for a quick fag. Not far to go..... Easy lift access from the Commodore Club itself.

 

Obviously it would need a complete refit.

 

The other location would be the Winter Garden - that would need less of a refit but would need to be completely sealed.

 

Finally, what about G32? Horrible space, but large and self contained.

 

I do like the idea of a bar that is smoking - notwithstanding that I am a non-smoker myself and would not use such a facility - but equally I see the need for Cunard to be, as far as possible, all things to all men. The OP's idea of a separate bar is a good one, but I think that the Chart Room and the Commodore Club must remain free for all to use. They are, after all, the pick of the bars on the ship.

 

The other point would be that the crew need consideration. They should not be forced to work in a smoking bar for reasons that are plainly obvious. Perhaps it would need to be more a lounge, with a nearby bar? I don't know - that is something for Cunard to work out however.

 

It would be nice if everyone could rub along on this one.

[pepperrn]

Injecting a little humour here... :) I hope...

 

As the law allows smoking in special rooms in

Nursing Homes,

Prisons,

Off Shore Oil Rigs,

And, it seems to me, many cruise ships have aspects of some or parts of all of the above ;)

Could smoking continue in one indoor area on board a ship? :eek:

 

Just trying not to get too serious and keep the thread lighthearted. :)

[KenC]

Quote from ROB6852

 

British law says no smoking in public buildings and cunard follow this law, simple as that.

 

 

Yes that's maybe correct, but I wonder how it effects the crew, under British law the couldn't smoke anywhere on the ship as its there place of work?

 

Michael Mac.

 

I don't think the UK No Smoking Law applies to vessels. The government did intend to introduce legislation to apply to all vessels in UK territorial waters and launched a consultative document a couple of years ago. So far it has not followed up with the legislation - probably because there is a bit of an issue regarding non-UK flagged vessels in UK waters.

 

Ken

[Cruachan]

Could smoking continue in one indoor area on board a ship? :eek:

 

The funnel? LOL!

 

J

[Boytjie]

Why make the nicest bar in the ship a smoking zone? :eek:

[garigoun]

Why make the nicest bar in the ship a smoking zone? :eek:

 

Or conversely why should the smokers (who pay the same as non smokers) only get the crap places?

A Non-smoking Gari

[southwestie]

Quote from ROB6852

 

British law says no smoking in public buildings and cunard follow this law, simple as that.

 

 

Yes that's maybe correct, but I wonder how it effects the crew, under British law the couldn't smoke anywhere on the ship as its there place of work?

 

Michael Mac.

 

 

yes i see what your saying, like here and where you are they would have to smoke outside I imagne

[southwestie]

Injecting a little humour here... :) I hope...

 

As the law allows smoking in special rooms in

Nursing Homes,

Prisons,

Off Shore Oil Rigs,

And, it seems to me, many cruise ships have aspects of some or parts of all of the above ;)

Could smoking continue in one indoor area on board a ship? :eek:

 

Just trying not to get too serious and keep the thread lighthearted. :)

 

 

well it will do, churchills and cabins

[southwestie]

The funnel? LOL!

 

J

 

good idea

:D

[southwestie]

17 March, 2008Adjust font size: Majority want smoking stubbed out on cruise shipsComments: 4

 

Two-thirds (66%) of people admit to not knowing what the smoking policy is on cruise ships, eight months after the smoking ban was introduced in England.

 

And cruise companies are adding to the confusion by often not specifying what they term as ‘designated areas’, according to cruise community website www

 

The online poll of 5,500 people shows that 68% of respondents believe British ships should follow UK law and ban smoking completely.

 

The confusion arises as British law does not apply to cruise ships either docked or travelling within international waters, according to the company.

 

As a result cruise lines are left to apply their own laws meaning different rules apply to different vessels.

 

This lack of consistent regulations has left passengers baffled and at a higher risk of passive smoking, and 53% still thought cruise ships should not decide their own smoking policy.

 

The results revealed a concern for cruise ship workers’ health with nearly three quarters (74%) saying smoking should be banned in bars and lounges to protect staff.

 

Almost a quarter (23%) admitted to either throwing a cigarette overboard, or seeing someone else do it.

 

Sukie Rapal, head of marketing at [url="http://www., said: “This research shows the apparent need for consistent smoking policies across all cruise operators so that confusion amongst passengers can be reduced.

 

“One solution could be for the operators to make their own policies clearer in all marketing collateral such as websites and brochures. However, it does seem to be more of a legal issue that needs to be overcome.

 

“Perhaps more worrying is that people appear to be oblivious to the potential hazards of smoking onboard a ship - simply because they are free from regulation.

 

“By being careless with used cigarette ends, some smokers are risking their fellow passengers’ safety, which should be controlled by having regulations in place on board all ships

[nfcu]

If it is true that Cunard must follow UK law, then how about a radical solution - reflag Cunard ships to the Bahamas or Panama or to keep the British influence, to Bermuda like Princess ships.

[southwestie]

If it is true that Cunard must follow UK law, then how about a radical solution - reflag Cunard ships to the Bahamas or Panama or to keep the British influence, to Bermuda like Princess ships.

 

 

well we dont know now that they do have to follow it, they do in british waters.

 

if they follow what an on line poll of 5500 people say and 68% say follow the law maybe they do, it is after all a hugh percentage

[No534]

I don't think the UK No Smoking Law applies to vessels. The government did intend to introduce legislation to apply to all vessels in UK territorial waters and launched a consultative document a couple of years ago. So far it has not followed up with the legislation - probably because there is a bit of an issue regarding non-UK flagged vessels in UK waters.

 

Ken

 

UK registered vessels are covered by the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. Therefore, the legislation which was introduced for the rest of the UK to ban smoking does not apply to ships.

 

The UK Department of Transport did issue a consultation letter last year in respect of the proposed "Merchant Shipping (Prohibition of Smoking on Ships) Regulations. However, for the reasons stated by the previous poster, no legislation has been forthcoming and as far as I'm aware the consultation process has now closed.

 

The text of the above letter provides useful information as to what effect such legislation would have on ALL vessels entering UK waters. Here is the link to the Consultation letter:

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonships/consultationletter.pdf

[KenC]

For those that prefer not to take hearsay ... here is a link to the government's consultation document relating to a PROPOSED smoking ban on ships in UK waters

 

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonships/consultationletter.pdf

 

 

Ken

[No534]

For those that prefer not to take hearsay ... here is a link to the government's consultation document relating to a PROPOSED smoking ban on ships in UK waters

 

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonships/consultationletter.pdf

 

 

Ken

snap!!! :)

[KenC]

UK registered vessels are covered by the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. Therefore, the legislation which was introduced for the rest of the UK to ban smoking does not apply to ships.

 

The UK Department of Transport did issue a consultation letter last year in respect of the proposed "Merchant Shipping (Prohibition of Smoking on Ships) Regulations. However, for the reasons stated by the previous poster, no legislation has been forthcoming and as far as I'm aware the consultation process has now closed.

 

The text of the above letter provides useful information as to what effect such legislation would have on ALL vessels entering UK waters. Here is the link to the Consultation letter:

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonships/consultationletter.pdf

 

 

You beat me to it!!! :D

 

Ken

[The Real PM]

You beat me to it!!! :D

 

Ken

So there it is. And I believe it isn't up to any of us who might think it is unhealthy or overpowering or smelly and it certainly doesn't have to do with how many polls we have read or submitted to or agreed with--it is up to the ship's captain and the line's head I would think. So if anyone believes that they are beimg discriminated against, or that their health is at risk, or that their clothes need to be thrown away after entering a smoke-filled cabin, just suck it up!

 

Certainly, I have had my fill of the lecturing about the ills of smoking and the thoughtlessness of the smoker. It doesn't matter a whit, at least at the moment, what all the non-smokers and reformed smokers think. Deal with it and if you can't-- it is quite simple really--just stay away!

[southwestie]

At least now we all know that it is Cunard who made this happen.

[Boytjie]

Or conversely why should the smokers (who pay the same as non smokers) only get the crap places?

A Non-smoking Gari

 

Because there are less smokers than non-smokers! :D

[The Real PM]

Because there are less smokers than non-smokers! :D

And you know this--how?

[Berserker]

If it is true that Cunard must follow UK law

 

How many times do I have to say?

 

BRITISH FLAGGED SHIPS ARE NOT COVERED BY THE UK SMOKING BAN.

 

This isn't up for discussion - it is settled law.

[Berserker]

For those that prefer not to take hearsay ... here is a link to the government's consultation document relating to a PROPOSED smoking ban on ships in UK waters

 

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonships/consultationletter.pdf

 

Ken

 

The UK Department of Transport did issue a consultation letter last year in respect of the proposed "Merchant Shipping (Prohibition of Smoking on Ships) Regulations.

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonships/consultationletter.pdf

 

That's the link I posted at post number NINE.