Does Carnival pay the medical bills when the ship lists??

[halos]

True........but it is what it is.........nobody said it was easy to fight for what is right......

Yes, it is what it is...and you have to roll with the punches.

Fortunately, I have never been in the position where I did. I have seen others go through it (mostly issues with doctors.....don't want to go into how I feel about most of the medical profession and I apologize to any doctors on this board who may be offended) But if you are sick or injured it is not just 'not easy'...it can be hell.

 

One good example of how difficult it can be is, my dad died because of an inury he recieved at work. He was 53 at the time. Because it was a work injury, he was on workman's compensation for the 5 weeks he was recuperating (prior to his death). He died in 1993....the workman's compensation (only a portion of it) goes to my Mom until she dies UNLESS she remarries. To this day workman's compensation folks not only harass her, but also bang on the neighbors doors and ask questions about my Mom's personal life.

My Mom had to hire a lawyer to fight for the compensation that by law is rightfully hers, because they were trying to deny her the money.

My Dad was dead...there was no faking going on here.

The lawyer gets 20% of each of the already measly checks...every one of them, for as long as she gets them.

 

 

All this because there are people that rip off workman's comp every day out there....

 

carnival should indeed handle all medical issues caused by this accident. I hope the people that were hurt recover and I hope that Karma gets anyone who isn't seriously hurt but tries to take advantage of the situation.

[Nunu]

True........but it is what it is.........nobody said it was easy to fight for what is right......

 

Beastie Boys did

[nrdsb4]

It won't surprise me that someone will try to sue Carnival, and some lawyer will try to prove negligence on Carnival's part.

 

I'm no lawyer, but they'll probably post these questions. Who was on the bridge, what were they doing at the time, who was in charge, and why was the bouy not seen with plenty of time to avoid such a turn? If Carnival knows that radar and sonar have limitations, were there lookouts posted, how many, where were they, and what equipment do lookouts have? They'll want to know where the captain was.

 

If you were representing a plaintiff, what would you do?

 

I imagine the entity which monitors cruise ship safety will be asking those questions anyway and it will all be public record.

[LemurCat]

I'm going to dress as a buoy and sneak onto a ship.

 

Stand in front of the ship and see if the captain tries to suddenly turn away from you.

[smeyer418]

Gotta love the amateur lawyers here.

 

Your contract with Carnival is governed by the laws of the State of Florida.

 

Except as limited by the terms of the contract, Carnival is liabile for any physical or emotional injury sustained by a passenger by reason of Carnival's negligence. The provision quoted above purposrts to limit Carnival's liability for emotional distress in the absense of a physical injury. Not having practiced law in florida, I don't know if that limitation is enforceable under florida law.

 

but I can tell you this: "intentional infliction of emotional distress" is a term of art -- an intentional act on the part of the captain (turning the ship) is NOT "intentinal infliction of emotional distress". that term usually implies intentionally egregious conduct, such as telling someone that their spouse has died when you know that the spouse is alive and well.

 

I don't know what insurance coverage Carnival may have, but ...the standard Commercial General Liability policy contains a provision that allows a business to pay person's medical expenses if they are injured at the business premises, regardless of fault. In other words, if I slip and fall at the supermarket and wind up in the ER, the supermarket's insurance company will pay my ER bill even if it's later proved the supermarket didn't do anything to cause my fall. However, if I want damages for pain and suffering, i'd have to prove that the supermarket was negligent and caused me to fall.

 

It's sound business policy to pay medical expenses under those circumstances. for minor injuries it frequently prevents a suit from being pursued. I'd hazard a guess that, regardless of its insurance coverage, Carnival will pay the medical expenses of anyone who got hurt because of the Ecstasy's encounter with the buoy.

 

as for other damages....it doesn't sound to me that the captain was negligent, or that he intentionally caused harm to the passengers...in fact, turning to avoid the bouy was reasonable and necessary. my educated guess (and it's just a guess, I don't know all the facts) is that the passengers who were injured are not likely to be able to succeed if they bring a claim for pain and suffering.

 

 

actually its governed by Federal law although the choice of forum(court) is in Florida. Federal law prohibits cruise lines from disclaiming liability for physical injuries caused by its own negligence. Does not seeing a submerged buoy count as negligence? If it was on the chart it is. Otherwise I don't think so. But that doesn't mean that they won't cover the injuries in this case....from what I hear they were all bumps and bruises...hopefully nothing worse.

[LemurCat]

Beastie Boys did

 

No, they just said you Gotta Fight for your Right. They never said it was easy, especially because living at home is such a drag, your parents steal your best prono mags, and they won't let you smoke.

[Nunu]

No, they just said you Gotta Fight for your Right. They never said it was easy, especially because living at home is such a drag, your parents steal your best prono mags, and they won't let you smoke.

 

You're in the 1% that would even get that. :p

[LemurCat]

You're in the 1% that would even get that. :p

 

Considering it's on my iPod and in regular rotation ...

[Kurbanfan]

 

All this because there are people that rip off workman's comp every day out there....

 

 

Sorry but that is a two way street.....in my business I have seen just the opposite with W.C........we have photo proof of the abuse and W.C. doesn't do a thing.........

There will always be people that want something for nothing.......I tend not to dwell on the negative.......but that shouldn't stop people for fighting for what is right......and the outcome being positive.........

[songbird1329]

I think some people are thinking that being liable is the same as being negligent. You don't have to be negligent to still have the duty to pay for injuries sustained. Your example is a perfect illustration of why Carnival should pay. Because of the accident with the Carnival employees at the wheel (so to speak), people were injured and Carnival's insurance should pay for their medical expenses.

 

"liability' is another term of art. unless there's "strict liability" for an inherently dangerous activity, "liability" usually means "fault."

 

insurance policies address "legal liability". they don't pay unless the insured is leglaly liabile -- unless there's a provision in the policy for reimbursement of a third party's expenses regardless of fault or liability.

 

should Carnival step up to the plate and pay medical expenses for the passengers injured. i think we all agree they should. are they legally liabile to do so? not without a finding of fault.

[Nunu]

Considering it's on my iPod and in regular rotation ...

 

What about Intergalactic? :confused:

[halos]

Sorry but that is a two way street.....in my business I have seen just the opposite with W.C........we have photo proof of the abuse and W.C. doesn't do a thing.........

There will always be people that want something for nothing.......I tend not to dwell on the negative.......but that shouldn't stop people for fighting for what is right......and the outcome being positive.........

 

I guess WC in CA isn't as overly-ambitious as they are in PA.....

 

Yes, there will always be some people that want something for nothing and they are part of the reason honest people have to fight. I never said people shouldn't fight. I just hope when they are fighting for something, it's somethign they really deserve.

[Kurbanfan]

finding of fault[/b].

 

But seriously........how would it be the passengers fault :confused:

[songbird1329]

I imagine the entity which monitors cruise ship safety will be asking those questions anyway and it will all be public record.

 

 

I've already seen one legal periodical alerting the plaintiff's bar to this accident. :rolleyes: :o

 

the Coast Guard is investigating the incident. they know the appropriate questions to ask.

 

if the coast guard report places any blame on Carnival....you will see a lot of lawyers lining up at the federal courthouse in Miami ready to file suit....

 

and yes, you have to sue in Miami, it's in your contract with Carnival.

[halos]

I just hope when they are fighting for something, it's somethign they really deserve.

 

I've already seen one legal periodical alerting the plaintiff's bar to this accident. :rolleyes: :o

 

.

...and so it begins.

[nrdsb4]

"liability' is another term of art. unless there's "strict liability" for an inherently dangerous activity, "liability" usually means "fault."

 

insurance policies address "legal liability". they don't pay unless the insured is leglaly liabile -- unless there's a provision in the policy for reimbursement of a third party's expenses regardless of fault or liability.

 

should Carnival step up to the plate and pay medical expenses for the passengers injured. i think we all agree they should. are they legally liabile to do so? not without a finding of fault.

 

 

Well, I'm not a lawyer. I just play one on TV.;)

[Kurbanfan]

I've already seen one legal periodical alerting the plaintiff's bar to this accident. :rolleyes: :o

 

 

Could be more serious injury then reported:confused:

 

 

Here we begin with all the assumptions........

[LemurCat]

What about Intergalactic? :confused:

 

Of course. I gotta keep my HDB cred intact.

[Nunu]

Tort Reform is a good ivy league college band name.

[songbird1329]

if you're hurt through no fault of your own...does that mean someone else must be responsible? legally, no.

 

if you get hurt on Carnival's ship through no fault of your own, but Carnival didn't do anything wrong either, Carnival has no legal liability and you have no recourse against them. there may be a moral obligation, but that's not enforceable in court.

 

that's why we have no fault auto insurance in many states -- your medicla expenses are paid for no matter whose fault the accident was; why we have wroker's compensation -- you collect if you get hurt on the job, no matter who caused the injury; why you buy health insurance and travel insurance....

 

FYI one of my worst cases was a plaintiff who sued for alleged inhalation of a chemical which never happened....but he collected $100K from California's worker's comp program. I was not happy with the comp carrier in that case...

[songbird1329]

oh, and the legal journal just had the same sound bite as the rest of us have seen on the news....

[Kurbanfan]

if you're hurt through no fault of your own...does that mean someone else must be responsible? legally, no.

 

if you get hurt on Carnival's ship through no fault of your own, but Carnival didn't do anything wrong either, Carnival has no legal liability and you have no recourse against them. there may be a moral obligation, but that's not enforceable in court.

 

 

 

Understood.......but......these injuries were caused by a sharp turn........whether it was legit or not........no sharp turn no injuries.........

[songbird1329]

Understood.......but......these injuries were caused by a sharp turn........whether it was legit or not........no sharp turn no injuries.........

 

 

true, the factual cause of the accident was an action of the bridge crew, making a sharp turn.

 

but the factual casue of the accident is not sufficient to create legal liability.

 

legal liability requires negligence, a failure to do what the hypothetical "reasonable man" would do.

 

the "reasonable man" would have precautions in place to detect an object in the water. the "reasonable man" would take evasive action to avoid hitting the submerged object.

 

would the "reasonable man" have made a sharp turn to avoid the object, or was there a more prudent way to avoid an accident?

[soakedbythesea]

Maybe the captain will come out of this as the hero, doing the right thing, saving the lives of thousands! Well, could be.

 

Last week a golfer named Davis called a penalty on himself for hitting a twig on his 3rd shot out of a bunker. Headlines would have made people think he gave up many dollars by calling this penalty on himself. The reality was that his opponent and winner of the tourney, Jim Furyk, was on the green in 2 - His sand shot was a long way from the hole in 3, making his chance to win or even tie on the sudden-death playoff hole next to impossible, so he then decided to make the call & be the hero. He wanted to pick up and give Furyk a gimme, but that is not possible in stroke play, so Furyk putted out after Davis picked up - Now, that would have been a great story if Davis could have gotten Furyk to pick up and void the hole he lost on, in which case they would have needed to play another hole to determine the winner. Bet the next time Davis is in a trap he is more careful not to disturb the surroundings with his backstroke, like most golfers already know to do. Not because he lost $thousands, as he won 2nd place and over $600,000, which is what happens when the other golfer gets a lower score, with or without penalty strokes. Ever see how they are careful not to let their club touch the sand when getting ready to make a sand shot?

 

So, the captain of the Ecstasy avoided turning the ship over or a collision that could have taken the ship down, saving lives (remember how the airlines reported the plane ditched in the Hudson River?) - Carnival should report the positive survival story, rather than try to bury their head again and ignore another mishap at sea. With cameras everywhere now and boards like this, trying to duck reality is getting more and more difficult.

 

Let's see the headlines Carnival "Captain of Ecstasy A Hero!"

[songbird1329]

here's what the legal periodical said:

 

 

 

Legal news for personal injury attorneys. Sixty people are injured after a Carnival Cruise ship makes sharp turn to miss buoy.

Personal injury attorneys alert- Sixty passengers were injured on Carnival Cruises Line ship, Ecstasy.

 

then the article went on to describe the accident, giving the same info you saw in USA today or any other media, but with special emphasis on the fact that the injuries were minor and no one needed an ambulance.