Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. continues to put off buying new ships

[LBcruzman]

There are also trade offs with those new cruisers and the long timers. Many of those new cruisers will be one time wonders. That is not how cruise ships get filled up in th long run.

 

As for the stock market, the run up in gold prices says plenty. There are still a lot of skiddish people around.

Yes, I agree. And it is too bad for most. As to Gold, anyone who jumps into the Gold market now would be like someone who jumped into the Stock market in August 2008. Most people invest in exactly the OPPOSITE way that they should. Look at all the people who buy Whole Life or Universal Life insurance. You may as well just hand over your wallet to the sales guy. And they sell those as Investments!!!! Hahahah!!!

 

As to the new cruisers, for every one time wonder there are people like you and me who get hooked!!!!!

[Maraprince]

Yes, I agree. And it is too bad for most. As to Gold, anyone who jumps into the Gold market now would be like someone who jumped into the Stock market in August 2008. Most people invest in exactly the OPPOSITE way that they should. Look at all the people who buy Whole Life or Universal Life insurance. You may as well just hand over your wallet to the sales guy. And they sell those as Investments!!!! Hahahah!!!

 

As to the new cruisers, for every one time wonder there are people like you and me who get hooked!!!!!

 

 

The biggest downside to both the Allure and the Oasis is the limited number of ports that these ships can fit it. While the ships may be the attraction, repeating the same boring ports gets old very quickly.

 

RCL is going to need to keep booking first time cruisers in very large numbers if they wish to recoup their investment in these new ships.

 

And as pointed out, sailing on these 2 ships costs a lot more than on smaller ones.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[UNV-IT!!!]

there not all bad. my friend lives in the biscayne 900 across from the AA area. his building is doing just fine lol. comes in handy for games, cirque, or ultra

Maybe they can take one of the dozens of empty condo buildings sitting in Miami that went into foreclosure and lay one on it's side and sell it off as a ship:p

[UNV-IT!!!]

I dont agree at all. as someone who cruises all the time at this point the destinations are the last point of concern for me. in fact i find myself looking for cruises that have less days in port and more at sea. so the ship is what matters to me. so i would gladely sale on oasis and or allure as i already have booked. i enjoyed the ship more then any other. so the ports dont matter

The biggest downside to both the Allure and the Oasis is the limited number of ports that these ships can fit it. While the ships may be the attraction, repeating the same boring ports gets old very quickly.

 

RCL is going to need to keep booking first time cruisers in very large numbers if they wish to recoup their investment in these new ships.

 

And as pointed out, sailing on these 2 ships costs a lot more than on smaller ones.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[Cruising89143]

The biggest downside to both the Allure and the Oasis is the limited number of ports that these ships can fit it. While the ships may be the attraction, repeating the same boring ports gets old very quickly.

 

RCL is going to need to keep booking first time cruisers in very large numbers if they wish to recoup their investment in these new ships.

 

And as pointed out, sailing on these 2 ships costs a lot more than on smaller ones.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

 

I don't agree. I cruised twice this year on the Oasis and have a B2B booked on the Allure. If I do another Caribbean cruise, it will be only on an Oasis class. Have no interest in the smaller ships for the Caribbean.

 

Also more and more ports are now making plans to upgrade port facilities to handle the Oasis class.

[negc]

The biggest downside to both the Allure and the Oasis is the limited number of ports that these ships can fit it. While the ships may be the attraction, repeating the same boring ports gets old very quickly.

 

RCL is going to need to keep booking first time cruisers in very large numbers if they wish to recoup their investment in these new ships.

 

And as pointed out, sailing on these 2 ships costs a lot more than on smaller ones.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

 

That doesn't seem to deter people from booking cruises on the several ships that do cruises to the Bahamas from Florida, cruises that regularly and constantly go to Key West, Grand Cayman, and Cozumel, St. Thomas, San Juan and St. Thomas, New York or Boston to Bermuda. And those ships have many fewer on board features than Allure and Oasis. They are getting those higher prices not only because the ships are newer but because of all the extras that they offer. As long as people value those extras, Allure and Oasis will fill up on a regular basis.:) And if people tire of their itineraries, RCI offers many other itineraries on their other ships.

[The Flying Pirate]

They dont need any new ships just yet. With the Oasis and Allure, they have to be hurting for money. I love RCI dont get me wrong, but I think they got in over their heads with these two ships. Sure they are nice, but RCI made cutbacks to help fund these ships that they may not have had to otherwise. Some call it nickel and diming the passemgers, but it all adds up. I hope they lay off th enew ships for awhile and maybe bring back some things they got rid of or now charge for. Just a thought...;)

 

I have to agree, the timing of Oasis and Allure couldn't have been worse. Two big expensive ships they have to pay for. The good news is Oasis is getting good reviews, which helps. I do agree that they have made some cutbacks that are not popular and might not have been required had they not had the huge costs of Oasis and Allure.

 

I have a feeling that Oasis and Allure will be the worlds largest for a while. If I had to guess I would think they would revisit the Radiance Class concept for the next new build.

[cruiserbryce]

I guess that RCI doesn't believe the announcement that this Recession is over either

 

or is still in debt for building those 2 new giants during the recession

[DarthGrady]

Gotta keep Grady on this side of the fence, one of the best obscure movie references ever!

 

:cool::D

 

Nor Ann-Margret.

 

Touche!

[klingoncruiser]

Good, I am glad they are holding off. Time to quit trying to be the biggest and go back to being the best.

[tntornadox]

There is no new news here. This is in keeping with the feedback to us from RCL. Doesn't mean that a new ship isn't being planned.

 

Bingo! Just because a new ship isn't currently being built does not mean a new class is not being planned. I, for one, believe rumors that have been circulating on these boards that the next RCI class will be a cross between Radiance and Voyager classes with hints of Celebrity's Solstice class. This would be a perfect all around ship that could really give RCI a lot of options as far as itinerary planning and such for long-term growth.

[negc]

Bingo! Just because a new ship isn't currently being built does not mean a new class is not being planned. I, for one, believe rumors that have been circulating on these boards that the next RCI class will be a cross between Radiance and Voyager classes with hints of Celebrity's Solstice class. This would be a perfect all around ship that could really give RCI a lot of options as far as itinerary planning and such for long-term growth.

The bigger question is whether or not building such a ship would be cost-effective, energy efficient and profitable to operate. Those are the factors that RCI always cites when they are asked why they haven't built more Radiance class ships. As things currently stand they have ships in a variety of sizes that are capable of sailing just about any itinerary they can come up with, and the current fleet has plenty of years of service left.

[tntornadox]

^ Just repeating what I had heard, a Voyager-esque sized ship with Freedom and Oasis elements. There are currently more Voyager class ships than any other, so they must be quite profitable. I would expect these ships to be similar in size with more activities aboard.

[shipshape sam]

Full Metal Jacket - Private Joker on hearing about the Tet Offensive.

 

 

love your moniker! Cheers! :)

[shipshape sam]

I think they will keep Monarch and Majesty as long as they are making a profit on their shorter cruises. As they are more affordable, they are often the entry into cruising for people who may not be ready to make the big splurge the larger ships require. I know that is how we got started, and now we are looking into 2 week Panama cruising !!

 

I would think they are making a good profit with these two ships. Lots of newbie's and then I am sure a good number of locals at 'deal' prices. Our first 2 cruises were on Sovereign of Seas and that is what got us hooked. Now over 25 cruises :).

[tahqa]

^ Just repeating what I had heard, a Voyager-esque sized ship with Freedom and Oasis elements. There are currently more Voyager class ships than any other, so they must be quite profitable. I would expect these ships to be similar in size with more activities aboard.

Not sure that number of ships in a class correlates with profitability. Besides, the Vision class has six ships to Voyager Class's five. :confused:

 

PS -- Yes, I am aware that Vision is really 3 groups of two.

[golfer1966]

I have to agree, the timing of Oasis and Allure couldn't have been worse. Two big expensive ships they have to pay for. The good news is Oasis is getting good reviews, which helps. I do agree that they have made some cutbacks that are not popular and might not have been required had they not had the huge costs of Oasis and Allure.

 

I have a feeling that Oasis and Allure will be the worlds largest for a while. If I had to guess I would think they would revisit the Radiance Class concept for the next new build.

 

I hope they revisist the Radiance Class....:)

[harryfat1]

Here’s the cc article on what new ships have been announced up to 2013.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=167

 

RCI won’t be the only company without new ships post Allure. Princess has no new ships from 2008 onward until 2013 when their next generation of ships will roll out. HAL has nothing on order after their second Signature class ship this summer.

 

It’s anybody’ guess on what the next generation of RCI ships will be, but looking at the competition of mass market cruise line and other member of the corporate family (Celebrity) in terms of their upcoming ship shows this:

 

Disney – 128K tons

Carnival – 130K tons

Costa – 114K tons

Celebrity – 122K tons

Princess - 141K tons

 

So one can see the trend is for building 100K ton plus ships for other cruise lines. While it does not preclude RCI from building the smaller Radiance class ships of 90K tons, it would certainly be a break from the crowd. Given how RCI markets itself as a “Nation of Why Not” by having everything under the sun on its ships, it’d be interesting to see what signature features they would eliminate by going to a smaller platform (assuming they are even looking at that).

 

If I was a betting person and Vegas has odds on this topic, I would bet on ship that’s above the 120K size – just given it’s marketing approach and the trend of the industry for that size ship.

 

Final thought is with Panama Canal having new lock sizes after 2014, the ship industry will have more options to build the bigger Panamax ships going forward and using the bigger ships for Panama Canal cruises. .

[ehfl]

We're years....perhaps decades away from the real start of a recovery. It really makes no sense to purchase a ship right now.

[tntornadox]

We're years....perhaps decades away from the real start of a recovery. It really makes no sense to purchase a ship right now.

It could be argued that RCI is stretched too thin by its fleet, though. They are pulling a large majority out of the US market next Summer to Europe... more ships could mean more itens out of more places year-round.

[LBcruzman]

We're years....perhaps decades away from the real start of a recovery. It really makes no sense to purchase a ship right now.

"Decades" away from the real start of a recovery? Don't think so. Historically, can you provide an example of a Recession (or even a Depression) where it took decades for a real start to a recovery? The recovery has already started. Certainly not in every area but hiring is starting again and the stock market has made tremendous gains of late.

 

Now the following are just general comments, not directed at any poster in particular:

 

The stimulous money is working to improve our infrastructure and creating jobs. Have you been in some of the major cities (and smaller ones too) and seen the major highway projects at work? If Congress will ok the Presidents request for more infrastucture money mainly for roads/highways and bridges not only in disrepair (and dangerous) but needed for traffic congestion and commute times, maybe we could make even quicker strides in the recovery. One of the current Administrations goals for stimulous money would be earmarked for massive rail projects, not only for the shipment of goods crosscountry, but for the movement of people from home to jobs and back. This would greatly eliviate the expensive oil problem, not to mention the extraordinary expensive Wars that go along with oil needs. Oh and then there is the human sacrifice involved in those wars. Let's see, a stimulous that can expand our economy, create real long term AMERICAN jobs, make our much needed infrastructure come into modern times, save taxpayers Billions in the long run AND save the lives of our troops?

 

Hmmm, why would anyone in Congress not vote for that? Maybe if they have an agenda where they only want to see the current Administration fail and are not really thinking of the consequences of their actions if the Adminsitration is not able to pass these initiatives, but are only thinking of their own political or monetary gains.

 

Hey, the American citizens that think positive and vote positive and don't listen to the naysayers who want us all to live in fear (all the while selling their books and TV shows and making tens of millions along the way) will prosper in the recovery and the years beyond. The ones that live in fear and believe those that sell out America will do themselves and their families no favors. But hey, it is a free country. So you choose.

 

So in a couple weeks when you go to vote, don't vote by Party or incumbent or whatever, vote for those that have a positive attitude about the future of our country and want to invest in her infrastructure and in her future. Otherwise, yes, if people vote for for the naysayers, the economy will not grow as fast.

 

There will be certain states (California, Florida and certainly Michigan) where it will take some time, years, but some parts of the country will see unprecedented growth in the next five years. People need to be willing to go where the jobs are. Those that are willing to make changes in their lives will prosper. Afterall, that was how our country was built, thrived and prospered. People moved west then south and so on.

 

California and Florida in particular were dead center in the real estate bubble where greed and corruption was a daily occurance. Many of the real estate markets in the country didn't participate in that bubble and are now only suffering because of tight credit. The Government stimulous of $8,000 for new home buyers last year (I think that was the amount) worked in our area. They should bring it back. Everytime some young couple buys a house many people make money. Not just on the house purchase but the things that follow, furniture, appliances, landscapping, paint and hardware, etc., etc. These turn into REAL jobs for Americans.

 

It is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

With prices as they are, MANY ships will be purchased now. Just not necessarily by RCL, who if you note, between The Freedom Class, Oasis (Genesis?) Class and Solstice Class (Celebrity) have purchased a LOT of ships as late. The others are just catching up.

[mommabean]

Lol

[negc]

It could be argued that RCI is stretched too thin by its fleet, though. They are pulling a large majority out of the US market next Summer to Europe... more ships could mean more itens out of more places year-round.

 

They are redeploying those ships to Europe because that is where the increase in demand is greatest. If the demand were greater in the various US ports they would deploy them there instead. The fact is, like it or not, the demand doesn't justify basing their ships in most of those ports year round. Twenty two ships is hardly an indication that they are "stretched too thin". :rolleyes:

[negc]

I hope they revisist the Radiance Class....:)

 

Keep hoping, but please understand that both Mssrs. Fain and Goldstein have constantly responded to this issue by saying that despite the popularity of Radiance class ships, it would not be cost-effective to build more of this class of vessel. They have asked "why not?" and concluded that the reasons not to build more far outweigh the reasons to do so.:)

[shipshape sam]

Not a bad thing to stop the buying binge! Ships are ordered years and years ahead of delivery. They are taking delivery of Allure this December and it was ordered prior to the latest economic downturn (recession for some). I, as a stockholder, would like to see the balance sheet strengthen with the paying off of some debt.

 

Disney is just now taking delivery of their first ship in over a decade.

 

Having said the above, I hope Royal Caribbean slots some smaller ships in their plans to replace the aging smaller ships. There is a place for them in the marketplace. We sailed on Sovereign of the Seas for our first 2 cruises and became 'hooked" :)