Cave Tubing - Snakes??????

[happy go lucky]

thanks..

[joyride]

Personally, I am sorry that I didn't want to believe what you posted. Since I am booked for cave tubing in three weeks, your account of what happened to Lonnie is something I didn't enjoy hearing.

 

I apologize. I am happy to hear that Lonnie is doing better, and I hope that he has a full recovery.

 

Cave tubing sounds so fun! Reading recent posts about the water being low, timing problems getting back to the ship, etc. has me wondering if we should still do this excursion. I am pretty adventurous, but I do not want to put our group in harm's way. I am also concerned about it being quite physical, as we are not in that good of shape.

 

I emailed Marvin at Wet and Wild and I am going to wait for his response before deciding if we should cancel or not.

 

I am sure that if this sort of thing happened often that these excursions would not be as popular as they are.

[Apex Cruiser]

Joyride,

 

While I would not worry about being in harms way I would worry about the physical exertion part.

 

If you have members of the group who are not reasonably fit they will have a problem on this excursion. The problem curently is that water levels are so low that you end up becoming a paddler and not a drifter down the river. It was still a great excursion but IMO if Marvin can offer another less physically demanding excursion that would be better. We physically needed several days to recover from the exertion of this trip and were glad to have a much less demanding last few days of the cruise. I'm sure with high enough water levels this would have been a great excursion despite our snake encounter. We were just not really ready for how hard it is currently.

[con3]

Joyride, please let us know what Marvin has to say! I am booked for this (not until June) and am a little freaked out.I know there is probably a very small risk (like swimming in the ocean and getting bit by a shark) but like you, it has me worried.

[rosyinGA]

We are booked to go cavetubing with X-treme on 4/6/05, I'm also thinking of canceling our excursion. We are going with our children ages 9 & 13. After reading about the snake bite, the lady whose brother in law was threatend by an armed guard, and the "near death" experince ( I e-mailed the lady who posted this, as she requested, and no response yet), this does not sound like my idea of a vacation!!! Has anyone else done this excursion recently?

[Charzwy]

Okay that settles it...NO CAVE TUBING for me!!! I am deathly afraid of snakes, so i don't even want to bump into one on the path! Thank you all for this information, I will stick to the beach!!! Maybe snorkeling??

 

Happy sailing!

[Zeno]

Oh for goodness sakes some people are getting silly - your chance of being bitten by a snake are pretty minimal. Only 2 snake species indigenous to Belize have highly toxic venom - the above mentioned fer-de-lance and the coral snake. Some of the other snakes have mildly toxic venom (about as bad as an insect bite). Only the fer-de-lance is known to be highly agressive - the others will be trying to get away from YOU. I lived with a rattlesnake under my cottage for YEARS - it NEVER behaved in an agressive fashion to us and it sure helped keep the rodent population down. Oh and to those who think the beaches are entirely snake-free I would like to mention that Boa constrictors are known to swim between the various Cays - you ignore them - they ignore you. Really people you are MUCH more likely to be in a car accident at home than to be seriously bitten by ANYTHING. And a Black Widow spider bite can be as toxic as any spider bite you could get in Belize. Black Widows are COMMON all over North America. Just be aware of your surroundings. LOOK before you sit down or touch and listen to your guides.

[coloradoan]

Oh for goodness sakes some people are getting silly - your chance of being bitten by a snake are pretty minimal. Only 2 snake species indigenous to Belize have highly toxic venom - the above mentioned fer-de-lance and the coral snake. Some of the other snakes have mildly toxic venom (about as bad as an insect bite). Only the fer-de-lance is known to be highly agressive - the others will be trying to get away from YOU. I lived with a rattlesnake under my cottage for YEARS - it NEVER behaved in an agressive fashion to us and it sure helped keep the rodent population down. Oh and to those who think the beaches are entirely snake-free I would like to mention that Boa constrictors are known to swim between the various Cays - you ignore them - they ignore you. Really people you are MUCH more likely to be in a car accident at home than to be seriously bitten by ANYTHING. And a Black Widow spider bite can be as toxic as any spider bite you could get in Belize. Black Widows are COMMON all over North America. Just be aware of your surroundings. LOOK before you sit down or touch and listen to your guides.

A rattle snake under your house? For years? You are indeed both brave and unique! Besides, it's not the snakes we're a'feared of, it's the thought that counts! Indiana Jones, I'm not... or come to think of it, he hated snakes too!

[Charzwy]

Oh for goodness sakes some people are getting silly - your chance of being bitten by a snake are pretty minimal. Only 2 snake species indigenous to Belize have highly toxic venom - the above mentioned fer-de-lance and the coral snake. Some of the other snakes have mildly toxic venom (about as bad as an insect bite). Only the fer-de-lance is known to be highly agressive - the others will be trying to get away from YOU. I lived with a rattlesnake under my cottage for YEARS - it NEVER behaved in an agressive fashion to us and it sure helped keep the rodent population down. Oh and to those who think the beaches are entirely snake-free I would like to mention that Boa constrictors are known to swim between the various Cays - you ignore them - they ignore you. Really people you are MUCH more likely to be in a car accident at home than to be seriously bitten by ANYTHING. And a Black Widow spider bite can be as toxic as any spider bite you could get in Belize. Black Widows are COMMON all over North America. Just be aware of your surroundings. LOOK before you sit down or touch and listen to your guides.

 

 

"Oh and to those who think the beaches are entirely snake-free I would like to mention that Boa constrictors are known to swim between the various Cays"

 

Well thank you for the information but I will still stick to the beaches, I live in Florida and have grown up at the beaches, NEVER have I seen a snake. Now, as for the "cays" I am not fimiliar with them or what species inhabit them. Is it common to see a boa in Goff's Cay? I sure hope I don't encounter any!

EEEK :eek:

[mbisson]

Okay that settles it...NO CAVE TUBING for me!!! I am deathly afraid of snakes, so i don't even want to bump into one on the path! Thank you all for this information, I will stick to the beach!!! Maybe snorkeling??

!

 

Ever hear of SeaSnakes? Highly toxic!

 

Let's think about this folks...The inside of the cave is cool, the water inside the cave is cool. Snakes are cold blooded. Unless the air outside the cave is extremely hot, they wouldn't even want to come into the cave.

 

jmo

-Monte

[con3]

I do agree, we are probably getting ourselves way to worked up. The chances of a car accident are much higher. I am still going to do the cave tubing, but I will be nervous!! (that is just how I am anyway) I did see a snake on a beach in Dunedin Florida, was told it was a rattle snake, but I did not look close enough to find out. WE also had an alligator in the lake behind our house!!

[Zeno]

A rattle snake under your house? For years? You are indeed both brave and unique! Besides, it's not the snakes we're a'feared of, it's the thought that counts! Indiana Jones, I'm not... or come to think of it, he hated snakes too!

Yes and as far as I know the snake is still there and still not bothering ANYBODY. We sold the place 2 years ago. The people we sold it to were actually thrilled about the snake (Massassauga (sp?) rattlers are an endangered species and protected by law in Ontario and rarely seen). MOST snakes are like them and non-agressive unless disturbed. My husband once assisted one across the road to our cottage (he did not want it to become a flat snake). He poked it gently (and carefully) with a LONG branch until it moved off the road - all it did was rattle a little to indicate annoyance and then it took off into the bushes. BTW I don't mean people should go around poking sticks at snakes - this could get you into a LOT of trouble with some species - not all are as laid back as the Massassauga rattler - for example don't go ANYWHERE near a fer-de-lance (highly aggressive and easily provoked).

[NANSUEUSA]

There will always be "doubting Thomases" in this world and the purpose of my message is not to convince them but to share with others the nightmare that my friends experienced on March 2nd while cruising with Splendour of the Seas.

 

I work with the woman whose husband (Lonnie) was bitten by the snake while on the Jungle Hike/Cave Tubing Tour in Belize. No one can truly imagine how quickly a dream vacation can go bad until it happens to you.

 

Yes, hundreds of people have udoubtedly done this excursion without incident, but the snakebite Lonnie got was real. In less than 24 hours he was told his arm may have to be amputated and he could possibly lose his life. It doesn't get more real than that.

 

Locating the anti-venom, the language barriers, arranging finances (long distance) to pay for the care were just a few of the pitfalls this couple had to endure. Then the struggle to get him med-evac'd from Cozumel to the US to the San Antonio Trauma Center began. Once there, it was a rollercoaster ride as the doctors, a team of 8 kidney/orthopedic specialists, tried to deal with the multitude of medical problems the snake venom wreaked on his body. Lonnie continues to be under a doctor's care for possible relapse in kidney function.

 

When Lonnie returned home 10 days later, the evidence of the snakebite was horrifying. The fang bites were still visible and severely swollen. Both his arms were black all the way to his armpits. This was due to the venom shutting down the ability for his blood to clot. He was extremely weak and having severe headaches, partially related to the venom affecting his ability to sleep for more than 10 minute increments.

 

We just want people to be aware that this danger is there and real, so when they sign up for the cave tubing excursion they go in with this knowledge. Most people may not care, but some might like to know.

 

Anyone contemplating a cruise should seriously consider purchasing the cruise insurance. It will be the best money you ever spent. If you never need it, you'll be thankful to have come home safely. If you do need it, it will greatly defray the costs you may be faced with to get your loved one to the special care they need.

 

Thanks so much to all the folks that wished Lonnie a speedy recovery. Those messages were greatly appreciated by the family.

[Zeno]

When Lonnie returned home 10 days later, the evidence of the snakebite was horrifying. The fang bites were still visible and severely swollen. special care they need.

 

Well that is interesting since the original poster said:

"The Doctor still hadn't decided if it was snake bite, spider bite or some sort of bug bite."

 

How odd - the doctor did not see fang marks - yet this new poster says they were clearly visible.

In all honesty I don't know what to think of this posting. Snake bite is certainly a possibility in Belize (although an unlikely one in the cave rafting situation) . - but the facts as presented by the two posters just don't add up. Oh well perhaps the stress of the unfortunate incident has left some a little confused. Certainly the unfortunate victim deserves sympathy whatever caused his medical problems.

[kenwoodusa]

I am the original poster of the snake bite warning, and yes Lonnie did have fang marks, BUT since Lonnie was not dead by the time he saw the SHIP Doctor, the Doctor didn't know for sure if it was a snake bite or some other type of bite. It was when he went to the hospital in Cozumel that they started to treat it as a snake bit. Yes his bite was NOT typical of all the information that has been posted. We still believe POSSIBLY many other factors attributed to him not losing his life, such as: possibly he didn't get a full lethal dose; his arm was dangling in the cooler water which possibly slowed down the speed that the venom traveled inside his body; Lonnie was not exerting himself in a way that would get his body temperature up to speed up the travel of the venom; God provided a miracle to our family in saving his life!! Look, I am not a Doctor and don't claim to be. I don't know why he didn't die within 4-12 hours but am so thankful he didn't!! I still am not sure what type of snake it was, like I said earlier I am only repeating what the doctors thought it was. But I am convinced it was a snake bite unless antivenim works on spider bites or insect bites.

 

I am done trying to defend myself... Yes the excursion was really a lot of fun BUT, I just wanted to let people know of the possibly danger... AND Yes, the chances of someone else getting bit probably are low, BUT WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO KNOW?????

 

God Bless everyone and have a great Easter!!

[davidaperryman]

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

 

There ain't no snakes in the caves.

[ColoradoJuli]

This one is a little hard for me to believe. We were on the excursion in January. The river was running very fast and there was no way that a snake would be hanging out in the water. A spider maybe, but not a snake. And the spider might have been on the wall of the cave, but stay away from there and you will be fine.

 

We went with Marvin @ Wet'nWild and had a wonderful time and would do it again. I agree with the poster that we are all getting worked up over nothing. Go...have a great time...you will be fine...

[con3]

Also, if there is that much of a risk I doubt the tour guides would want to go!!

[BZELOCAL]

What are you people talking about? you all start of with snakes in caves now it went to the sea snakes.

First I would like to mention that no one has been bitten by ANY snake in the caves. What someone posted on here before about someone getting bitten form a snake is so not true because I got the full story from what really happened. So Maam stop inventing it was not a snake.

Secondly.. many people has been going snorkling and swimming in our seas and no one has ever gotten hurt.. except for stuborn people that doesn;t know how to follow instructions and get cut by corals.

 

My point is that.... why will we belizeans offer a tour that is dangerous? Remember that every tour you go on there is a local tour guide. If we knew anything about snakes and other posionous creatures are in the places we take you.... we would have such tours. We will not put anyones life to a risk.

 

So people people stop inventing things... take your tour and get you mind of negative things and enjoy Belize.

 

BZELOCAL

[joyride]

My group of 4 girls have decided to cancel our cave tubing excursion. It is not because of the snakebite incident. Two of us have bad shoulders and one of us has problems with her neck. Everything I have read recently is that the water is very low and the excursion is a lot of work paddling. I do not want to do that and injure myself.

 

Personally, I do believe the incident with Lonnie occurred, why would anyone make something like this up? Also, I believe that the chances of it happening again are extremely rare.

 

I have been in touch with Marvin at Wet N Wild several times. He is very responsive, upbeat, etc. I am positive that the experience with his tour group is wonderful - and I will do it someday when I travel to Belize again with my husband. And, when I am in better shape.

 

I just turned the big 50 and I am not very athletic. I have opted to go snorkeling instead, even though I would love to see the caves. I don't think anyone should cancel their tour because of Lonnie's experience. I do think that everyone should be careful and keep a good eye on their surroundings.

 

Happy tubing everyone! And, I do wish the best to Lonnie and hope he has a full recovery. I leave on the Coral Princess 2 weeks from tomorrow! WOO HOO!

[mbisson]

you all start of with snakes in caves now it went to the sea snakes.

 

First I would like to mention that no one has been bitten by ANY snake in the caves. What someone posted on here before about someone getting bitten form a snake is so not true because I got the full story from what really happened. So Maam stop inventing it was not a snake.

 

 

First: I made the "sea snake" comment and think you might want to go back & reread it. If you're still confused by it, put your tougue in your cheek and read it again. If still confused, next time I'm in Belize, let's go on a snipe hunt.

 

Second: If you "got the full story from what really happened" how bout letting the rest of us know.

 

thanks

-Monte

[mbisson]

Also, if there is that much of a risk I doubt the tour guides would want to go!!

 

Unless it's their pet attack snake! We just might be on to something here. It's a conspiracy. They're all in cahoots and those snakes are really weapons of mass distraction.

 

Case solved.

 

-Monte

[Apex Cruiser]

Sorry ColoradoJill but having just been there your fast running river is now like an old mill pond in most areas! I could easily see how a snake would have done fine in the water we traveled on last week. It is a very different experience than you had with fast moving water.

 

Having seen a snake on the path myself I would again say that they are there. They are known to be there. If anyone from Belize denies that there are snakes there it is a bunch of XXXXX! Now pit vipers? Agressive snakes that attack people, well we did not run into them.

 

I do not feel anyone is in harms way. But there are indeed snakes in the area. It was not exactly the same fun excursion described by many with the water so low. This is not any tour operators fault, Belize's fault or anyone else simply mother nature has not provided enough water to make this a fun excursion currently. I hope they get some rain to raise the water levels and make this trip what others have described. So far as snakes just be careful and be aware Belize has snakes of all kinds.

[Nliedel]

I read about a snake being found in somene's toilet in Florida in the last couple of weeks. A six footer. I am still going to the bathroom.

 

Things happen, bad things. If you snorkle you might get bit by a shark or set stung by a stingray but most of the time something bad does not happen. I do not believe there are snakes in the caves in Belize, around and near the caves? You betcha. Under rocks in Belize? I would bet money on it and win. I would still walk in the jungle. I would just do it with respect and know that there are no guarentees. Of course I live in a double wide trailer (a nice one albeit) in a mobile home park so Tornado season is one big ole stress fest around here. (They are attracted to Trailer Parks you know).

[Zeno]

My last comments on this subject:

1. the fer-de-lance is NOT a water snake and it is the ONLY pit viper in Belize. Therefore the likelyhood of being bitten by a pit viper while on an inner tube in water is almost nil.

2. There are some snakes that frequent water in Belize. Boa constrictor for example - a NON venomous snake. Also sea snakes (venomous)(which DON"T LIVE in FRESH WATER - only in the ocean) and are therefore not going to be in a river) Some other snakes with mildly toxic venoms might be found occasionally in water (I don't really know). Their venom is VERY mild and would NOT produce the symptoms as described.

3. Yes there are snakes in Belize but the likelyhood of encountering one while floating down a river in an inner tube is mighty slim.

4. No medical person would mistake the bite of a fer-de-lance for a SPIDER or insect bite ! Think FANG size differential.

Basically - it just seems odd. Response to bite, medical action taken, symptoms and well-known reptile behaviours just don't add up to indicate that a fer-de-lance was involved. My guess is still arachnoid.