Can I comment on kids/toddlers/babies on cruises?

[bcs819]

also posting as a DINK....

Every place on earth has PEOPLE we would rather not be around. We try to avoid going to places or events where we think we will have a bad time. It is up to us to enjoy our cruise. While we would NEVER express our desire to eat alone as "tolerating" someone else, I can understand why some people would be hesitant to dine with strange children. We just like to eat alone, thus avoiding ALL potentially uncomfortable situations.

That being said, we are the only couple we know without children. We enjoy being around well-behaved children and will be doing a land based vacation in May with 4 children under the age of 3. We have been around our friends and their children often enough to know that their children are well-behaved and looked after. We have been friends with another couple for almost 15 years. They have a son who is a holy terror. On the rare occasions we do see them, we hear his name being yelled constantly. It is a very uncomfortable situation and while many of us have tried to express it to them, they have chosen to raise their son their way. We have not invited them, nor do we intend to, to any event in the last 4 years.

So, without rambling anymore - no one will give you a hard time if you pay attention to your child and you expect him to be well-behaved. If they do, ignore them, the issue is theirs...

For all of you who complain about the misbehaved adults....how do you think they got that way????????????????? Undisciplined children become rude grown-ups.

[CustomCruzr]

Wow, the hostility. Why are people who don't want to be around children always treated like leppers? I didn't say I would be rude, or create a scene, or anything of the sort. I simply stated that I would insist on eating my meal at a table without children. I didn't say without human company, simply without children. We encounter kids at the pool, the promanade, the theater, everywhere on the ship and in every day life. Why is it wrong to want to dine without them???????

[terri23]

I think it was the delivery rather than the sentiment that caused some people trouble. But you're right, some people seem to get offended by those of us who would prefer not to dine with children (particularly for seven - ten nights straight on vacation).

[Shar27]

[quote name='CustomCruzr']Wow, the hostility. Why are people who don't want to be around children always treated like leppers? I didn't say I would be rude, or create a scene, or anything of the sort. I simply stated that I would insist on eating my meal at a table without children. I didn't say without human company, simply without children. We encounter kids at the pool, the promanade, the theater, everywhere on the ship and in every day life. Why is it wrong to want to dine without them???????[/QUOTE]

Now herein lies the problem. Above you have written a lovely explanation of why you would prefer to dine without children. Nothing wrong with that, to each his/her own. In fact, when I am without my children, I would probably prefer the same thing.

What you originally posted was, and I quote, "we have to deal with children in certain areas, but won't tolerate one at our table."

Do you see a difference here? I think [u]tolerate[/u] being the problem word here. Perhaps your original quote was not meant as hostile, (although, I doubt it), it certainly came across that way. Without hearing the tone of your voice, "we hafta takes it, as we reads it".

Sharonna

[MamaMicki]

actually, My husband forgot my luggage. We had gone on a cruise and we took our RV and I didn't inspect the luggage I just figured he would pick it up. Well, it was in our room and he missed it. I got some new clothes from each port and 3 massages out of the deal. I had a bathing suit and my make-up. It wasn't that bad. I have taken 2 cruises with my kids. They are 3 and 1 now. I have never had people act rude or glare at us. Just don't take a Holland America cruise. That's where a lot of the grumpy old people are. Don't get me wrong...I have gone on 2 HAL cruises. When I want a quiet kid free cruise I head for HAL. When I want a more robust crowd it would be RCCL. In between is Princess. I am planning a Dec. cruise on Carnival. The kids will be 2 and 4 and we plan on taking advantage of the child care.Each cruise line has It's own distinct personality. Stick with RCCL, Carnival, Princess, and Disney with small kids and you should be fine. Actually, Princess provides baby food for you. Talk about helping out. We had to haul baby food on our last RCCL cruise.

Like my Dad says" The only time a cruise is bad is when the ship sinks." He is such a wise man. :) Take Care. also...if you have a balcony..take a small cheap inflatable baby pool. Great Fun!!!

[1corona4u]

[quote name='MamaMicki'] also...if you have a balcony..take a small cheap inflatable baby pool. Great Fun!!![/QUOTE]

Now THAT is something that would irk me!! The last thing I want to listen to is a toddler screaming and splashing around on the balcony next to me, when I am trying to peacfully watch the sunset....in a public area I can deal with whatever, but when I am back in my room, on the balcony, I would expect my neighbors to have some respect. Otherwise I might start smoking.....heavily.:cool:

[boatbunny]

[quote name='1corona4u']Now THAT is something that would irk me!! The last thing I want to listen to is a toddler screaming and splashing around on the balcony next to me, when I am trying to peacfully watch the sunset....in a public area I can deal with whatever, but when I am back in my room, on the balcony, I would expect my neighbors to have some respect. Otherwise I might start smoking.....heavily.:cool:[/QUOTE]


Hmmm, so can you tell me what I should do about my next door neighbors who had a party in their room almost every night keeping us up until 3 am? And on the last night of the cruise, just didn't go to bed all night, could they have found a "public" place to have their party and not disturb their neighbors?

Or to the neighbors on the other side who insisted on blasting their music while we were also trying to enjoy a quiet evening on our balcony (which I might add was after we had put our kids to bed around 9:30 so that they wouldn't be cranky the next day)?

Or how I explain the loud moaning and groaning to my kids, come on, we all love a good time, but the whole world doesn't need to listen!

Or the group of 4 couples (at least in their 40's) who got trashed every night and came banging on everyone's doors as they made their way down the hall to their rooms, yelling that everyone behind their doors were "boring and didn't know how to have a good time". (Yes, I did open my door to see who it was after the second night they did this). Of course, there was nothing more pleasurable to see than their faces at breakfast on the last day of the cruise reviewing their final bills (and at this point you could finally figure out which wife went with which husband) and having horrified looks on their faces. I overheard one couple say that their final bill was more than they paid for the cruise!! Sweet revenge!

Sorry, but a child splashing around in a pool is simply having a good time, a child's laugh and joy is something to be treasured in this world, let them enjoy it. On the other hand, the rude, inconsiderate jerks I described above know exactly what they are doing and the discomfort they are creating for their neighbors!!

[1corona4u]

[quote name='boatbunny']Hmmm, so can you tell me what I should do about my next door neighbors who had a party in their room almost every night keeping us up until 3 am? And on the last night of the cruise, just didn't go to bed all night, could they have found a "public" place to have their party and not disturb their neighbors?

Or to the neighbors on the other side who insisted on blasting their music while we were also trying to enjoy a quiet evening on our balcony (which I might add was after we had put our kids to bed around 9:30 so that they wouldn't be cranky the next day)?

Or how I explain the loud moaning and groaning to my kids, come on, we all love a good time, but the whole world doesn't need to listen!

Or the group of 4 couples (at least in their 40's) who got trashed every night and came banging on everyone's doors as they made their way down the hall to their rooms, yelling that everyone behind their doors were "boring and didn't know how to have a good time". (Yes, I did open my door to see who it was after the second night they did this). Of course, there was nothing more pleasurable to see than their faces at breakfast on the last day of the cruise reviewing their final bills (and at this point you could finally figure out which wife went with which husband) and having horrified looks on their faces. I overheard one couple say that their final bill was more than they paid for the cruise!! Sweet revenge!

Sorry, but a child splashing around in a pool is simply having a good time, a child's laugh and joy is something to be treasured in this world, let them enjoy it. On the other hand, the rude, inconsiderate jerks I described above know exactly what they are doing and the discomfort they are creating for their neighbors!![/QUOTE]

Maybe to me the sound of a child splashing around and screaming is just as annoying as what you described. We all have different thresholds of what we consider to be intrusive.

You should have complained to the ship if they were that obnoxious.

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='boatbunny']Hmmm, so can you tell me what I should do about my next door neighbors who had a party in their room almost every night keeping us up until 3 am? And on the last night of the cruise, just didn't go to bed all night, could they have found a "public" place to have their party and not disturb their neighbors?

Or to the neighbors on the other side who insisted on blasting their music while we were also trying to enjoy a quiet evening on our balcony (which I might add was after we had put our kids to bed around 9:30 so that they wouldn't be cranky the next day)?

Or how I explain the loud moaning and groaning to my kids, come on, we all love a good time, but the whole world doesn't need to listen!

Or the group of 4 couples (at least in their 40's) who got trashed every night and came banging on everyone's doors as they made their way down the hall to their rooms, yelling that everyone behind their doors were "boring and didn't know how to have a good time". (Yes, I did open my door to see who it was after the second night they did this). Of course, there was nothing more pleasurable to see than their faces at breakfast on the last day of the cruise reviewing their final bills (and at this point you could finally figure out which wife went with which husband) and having horrified looks on their faces. I overheard one couple say that their final bill was more than they paid for the cruise!! Sweet revenge!

Sorry, but a child splashing around in a pool is simply having a good time, a child's laugh and joy is something to be treasured in this world, let them enjoy it. On the other hand, the rude, inconsiderate jerks I described above know exactly what they are doing and the discomfort they are creating for their neighbors!![/QUOTE]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=blue]Boatbunny....[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#0000ff]Wow! YUCK! The nightmare you describe, is just that : a total nightmare.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#0000ff]I'm not sure how I would have reacted if I were in your place.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#0000ff]Thank you for sharing your sentiments about a child splashing around in a pool....you're right, children are to be treasured :) [/color][/size][/font]

[Onessa]

Someday we'll start a thread - asking when is the best time to cruise to avoid drunken boors, or people with obnoxious laughs and loud "inside" voices, or people who don't tan well and thus drag deck chairs to shady spots so others have to drag them back to sit in the sun, or people who say grace before they eat at the table (or I suppose, people who don't), or whose socks don't match on formal night, or "old" people, or whatever.

There are things about everyone that we don't like. While society tells us we should not pre-judge someone based upon their appearance, we seem to be perfectly fine pre-judging everyone under the age of 18. We don't want to sit with kids, we don't want kids on the balconey, we don't want kids on the elevators, we don't want kids in the hallways, we don't want kids coming to the shows, -- kids can't come into "our" pool area, kids can't come into "our" spa, kids can't come into "our" casino, kids should only say 'please' and 'thank you' and sit quietly (preferably stiftly as well, you know maybe if we could pull their hair really tight and maybe make them wear shoes a size or two too small - nothing permenent, but enough discomfort to make them take this whole vacation thing seriously you know). :rolleyes:

One kid has a meltdown at dinner, and all children are labeled as problems, painted with the same stroke. One adult has too much wine, and tipsys into a waiter causing a horrific crash of entrees, and no one assumes that all adult males are "evil"

I heard someone on these boards complain that a child tried something off of the adult menu, didn't care for it, and then just "picked at it" - and that the parents should have been more responsible than to allow him to order off of the "adult" menu and that it was just a waste of food - Would anyone even notice if an adult had ordered something and not eaten it?

A child rushes down the stairs, cutting a corner a bit close - and that ruins someones day. While I should be perfectly fine with someone who feels justified holding the elevator for his wife, who "just went back to the room for a minute"?

Perhaps one or two of you were hatched, fully grown into this world. Perhaps a few other of you had really nasty distasteful childhoods. In any case I pity anyone who cannot enjoy the company of everyone regardless of age.

There are some kids who do not act completely civilized, we should pity them that their parents do not care enough for them to watch after them and to spend the time to teach them how to behave. There are adults who don't act completely civilized - for them there is no excuse, they may have started as unruly children but now they should have learned through life how they need to behave.

Until I can afford a private, luxury yacht I must deal with my fellow pax. Please continue to publish those future cruise dates with your signatures - so that those of us with some tolerance can avoid those of you who are tiny, and hard, and mean spirited.

[boatbunny]

[quote name='1corona4u']Maybe to me the sound of a child splashing around and screaming is just as annoying as what you described. We all have different thresholds of what we consider to be intrusive.

You should have complained to the ship if they were that obnoxious.[/QUOTE]

We did complain, they would send down an attendant to tell them to keep in quiet, but the minute the attendant was gone, they'd start back up again. And honestly, how do you call and complain that someone's lovemaking is too loud? Obviousely, very rude and inconsiderate people. We asked to be moved, but the ship was full and they could only move us from our JS to an inside cabin, NO WAY was I doing that. We just tried to spend as little time as we could in our room.

If faced with a similar situation, I will go straight to the Captain to have the obnoxious jerks removed.

Wow, if a child's laughter is beyond your threshold, how do you make it through each day with sirens, traffic, radios, etc? Yes, I know you argument will be that you don't hear this stuff on your vacation, but come on, the dining rooms are not exactly quiet, the casino, the shows? I guess you just sit quietly in your room, get room service and that is the extent of your vacation. Too bad you are missing out on a lot of fun.

Sorry, but this whole kid bashing thing really irks me, are their obnoxious, ill behaved kids everywhere? YES, but that doesn't mean every child is like that, yet people like you seem to categorize every child as a screaming, snotty nosed brat. Obviousely you don't care for children whether they are happy or not.

[boatbunny]

Onessa,

Beautiful, simply beautiful!!! Thank you!

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='Onessa']Someday we'll start a thread - asking when is the best time to cruise to avoid drunken boors, or people with obnoxious laughs and loud "inside" voices, or people who don't tan well and thus drag deck chairs to shady spots so others have to drag them back to sit in the sun, or people who say grace before they eat at the table (or I suppose, people who don't), or whose socks don't match on formal night, or "old" people, or whatever.

There are things about everyone that we don't like. While society tells us we should not pre-judge someone based upon their appearance, we seem to be perfectly fine pre-judging everyone under the age of 18. We don't want to sit with kids, we don't want kids on the balconey, we don't want kids on the elevators, we don't want kids in the hallways, we don't want kids coming to the shows, -- kids can't come into "our" pool area, kids can't come into "our" spa, kids can't come into "our" casino, kids should only say 'please' and 'thank you' and sit quietly (preferably stiftly as well, you know maybe if we could pull their hair really tight and maybe make them wear shoes a size or two too small - nothing permenent, but enough discomfort to make them take this whole vacation thing seriously you know). :rolleyes:

One kid has a meltdown at dinner, and all children are labeled as problems, painted with the same stroke. One adult has too much wine, and tipsys into a waiter causing a horrific crash of entrees, and no one assumes that all adult males are "evil"

I heard someone on these boards complain that a child tried something off of the adult menu, didn't care for it, and then just "picked at it" - and that the parents should have been more responsible than to allow him to order off of the "adult" menu and that it was just a waste of food - Would anyone even notice if an adult had ordered something and not eaten it?

A child rushes down the stairs, cutting a corner a bit close - and that ruins someones day. While I should be perfectly fine with someone who feels justified holding the elevator for his wife, who "just went back to the room for a minute"?

Perhaps one or two of you were hatched, fully grown into this world. Perhaps a few other of you had really nasty distasteful childhoods. In any case I pity anyone who cannot enjoy the company of everyone regardless of age.

There are some kids who do not act completely civilized, we should pity them that their parents do not care enough for them to watch after them and to spend the time to teach them how to behave. There are adults who don't act completely civilized - for them there is no excuse, they may have started as unruly children but now they should have learned through life how they need to behave.

Until I can afford a private, luxury yacht I must deal with my fellow pax. Please continue to publish those future cruise dates with your signatures - so that those of us with some tolerance can avoid those of you who are tiny, and hard, and mean spirited.[/QUOTE]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=navy]Very eloquent, thank you for taking the time to write it......on behalf of myself and all of the other parents out there who cruise with their kids :) [/color][/size][/font]

[1corona4u]

[quote name='boatbunny']We did complain, they would send down an attendant to tell them to keep in quiet, but the minute the attendant was gone, they'd start back up again. And honestly, how do you call and complain that someone's lovemaking is too loud? Obviousely, very rude and inconsiderate people. We asked to be moved, but the ship was full and they could only move us from our JS to an inside cabin, NO WAY was I doing that. We just tried to spend as little time as we could in our room.

If faced with a similar situation, I will go straight to the Captain to have the obnoxious jerks removed.

Wow, if a child's laughter is beyond your threshold, how do you make it through each day with sirens, traffic, radios, etc? Yes, I know you argument will be that you don't hear this stuff on your vacation, but come on, the dining rooms are not exactly quiet, the casino, the shows? I guess you just sit quietly in your room, get room service and that is the extent of your vacation. Too bad you are missing out on a lot of fun.

Sorry, but this whole kid bashing thing really irks me, are their obnoxious, ill behaved kids everywhere? YES, but that doesn't mean every child is like that, yet people like you seem to categorize every child as a screaming, snotty nosed brat. Obviousely you don't care for children whether they are happy or not.[/QUOTE]

First of all, I am not bashing kids. I am saying there is a time and a place for everything, as MY dad use to say. I don't think the balcony of a cruise ship is the RIGHT place to have a toddler in a kiddie pool, screaming and carrying on, at the expense of their neighbors!! Call me crazy, I don't care!

Additionally, you're on a CRUISE SHIP....is there not enough to do without dragging a inflatable pool with you?? Jeez................

I do not have kids, because I didn't want to. [b]I also did not say all kids were the same, did I. [/b] I also believe I said that IF I encountered them in a public place, I could deal with them, and not so rudely say that I would not tolerate them.

HOWEVER, I have never posted to a child thread because it is a volatile topic, BUT, I happen to be in a really BAD mood today, and I feel like saying what I have been thinking for so long in regards to this topic.

Why is it that those of you who have kids, think we should all enjoy yours?

Why is it that all of you with kids, never see yours as being a problem?

Why should all of us who chose NOT to have kids are seen as negative people??

[b]You feel free to idolize kids all you want, that's your right. Just don't try to insinuate that we are all devoid of compassion if we don't see it as you do.[/b]

This topic is always reduced to "well, I paid for the cruise, so I will do what I want, you should just get over it", and I say to that, [b]THIS IS ABOUT MUTUAL RESPECT, nothing more.[/b]

I promise not to blast my radio on my balcony at 3 AM if you don't let your toddler SCREAM with JOY because they are in a kiddie pool.

And if you must know, the reason I feel so strongly about the screaming thing is this. 3 years ago when I bought my Villa, I bought it because it was in the back of the community, no kids, very private. About a month after I moved in, my really nice, quiet neighbor, got a cold call from a realtor, who said that someone was interested in buying his house....so in moves a family, in a 3 bedroom, with kids, 3, 5, 8, and they HAVE A POOL!!!!! I have not had ONE enjoyable QUIET day on my patio since then. Despite me trying to talk to the people about it!!!!

So, yes, kids, in a pool, screaming for JOY is a hot button for me!!!!!:mad:

I am done defending my opinion. Feel free to pick it apart some more, and make it seem as if those without kids are the ones in the WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ckrobyn]

I promise not to blast my radio on my balcony at 3 AM if you don't let your toddler SCREAM with JOY because they are in a kiddie pool.

[font=Century Gothic][size=3][color=navy]The only comment I will make about your post is the above quote. Surely you cannot equate a child's [b]spur[/b] of the moment squeal of delight with the [b]deliberate[/b] act of blasting a radio? :( [/color][/size][/font]

[1corona4u]

[quote name='ckrobyn']I promise not to blast my radio on my balcony at 3 AM if you don't let your toddler SCREAM with JOY because they are in a kiddie pool.

[font=Century Gothic][size=3][color=navy]The only comment I will make about your post is the above quote. Surely you cannot equate a child's [b]spur[/b] of the moment squeal of delight with the [b]deliberate[/b] act of blasting a radio? :( [/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

Yes, I can.

[terri23]

LOL Onessa, great flair for melodrama and sweeping generalizations! It didn't seem to correlate very well to the actual posts on this thread, but it was the best laugh I had all day! :rolleyes:

[FinelyCruising]

And these threads over and over again explain quite well why people are such a mess. :eek:

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='1corona4u']Yes, I can.[/QUOTE]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=indigo]Apparently you can and you did ;) [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082]I'm not out to "flame" anyone....God knows I've been through the flaming process on here and I assure you it ain't pretty :( [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082]I respect your feelings about not wanting children of your own, there are many people that are childless by choice, and there are many of us with kids who are for the most part, very well behaved. The bottom line as I see it, is that kids will be kids.....and as long as they are welcome on a cruise ship, in a restaurant or any other public place for that matter.....they will be kids, 'cause that's what they are.....free from the negativitiy, racism, cynicsm and every other "cysm" that has become the world we live in......it's sad....but kids are still our rare commodity....pure of heart :) They are not out to ruin your cruise...they are just being themselves.....[/color][/size][/font]

[1corona4u]

[quote name='ckrobyn'][font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=indigo]Apparently you can and you did ;) [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082]I'm not out to "flame" anyone....God knows I've been through the flaming process on here and I assure you it ain't pretty :( [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082]I respect your feelings about not wanting children of your own, there are many people that are childless by choice, and there are many of us with kids who are for the most part, very well behaved. The bottom line as I see it, is that kids will be kids.....and as long as they are welcome on a cruise ship, in a restaurant or any other public place for that matter.....they will be kids, 'cause that's what they are.....[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

That's fine Robin. My best friend of 12 years has 2 adorable kids. Do I always like their behavior, no. Do I love them, yes. BUT, parents need to be more aware that not everyone wants to share in their joy, for their kids. Parents need to control those kids that act out in public, and they also need to be aware of other people around them, and their rights to peace and quiet.

Having kids should not exempt people from RESPECTING other people's rights.

LIke I said, mutual resepct.

[FinelyCruising]

ckrobyn...as a matter of fact right before my last cruise (I am leaving again Saturday!) I made the comment, kids will be kids. Now you know and I know exactly what that means....But do expect the usual numerous and predicatably cynical posters to now swarm like buzzards and pick away.;)

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='1corona4u']That's fine Robin. My best friend of 12 years has 2 adorable kids. Do I always like their behavior, no. Do I love them, yes. BUT, parents need to be more aware that not everyone wants to share in their joy, for their kids. Parents need to control those kids that act out in public, and they also need to be aware of other people around them, and their rights to peace and quiet.

Having kids should not exempt people from RESPECTING other people's rights.

LIke I said, mutual resepct.[/QUOTE]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=navy]Mutual respect....true. But I cannot tolerate deliberate drunkeness and obnoxious behavior from adults.....who is responsible for THEIR behavior? :confused: [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#000080][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#000080]Yes, parents must keep a watchfull eye on their children to assure appropriate behavior....but who watches these lunatic drunks?[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#000080][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#000080]Respect for your fellow passengers is a 2 way street......[/color][/size][/font]

[1corona4u]

[quote name='ckrobyn'][font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=navy]Mutual respect....true. But I cannot tolerate deliberate drunkeness and obnoxious behavior from adults.....who is responsible for THEIR behavior? :confused: [/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#000080]Yes, parents must keep a watchfull eye on their children to assure appropriate behavior....but who watches these lunatic drunks?[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#000080]Respect for your fellow passengers is a 2 way street......[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

Well, I don't know, but I would agree. I don't drink in excess, and generally hate to see a real drunk, but I am not sure you can reason with a drunk....they are responsible for themselves, unless they become a danger to someone else, at which point, I would have to speak to someone in authority on the ship.

[FinelyCruising]

Here is the harsh reality of kids and cruising from my point of view after the broken record of the history of posts on these kinds of topics over the history of time on this board:

There are parents who have kids.

There are childless couple who would love to have children and can't.

There are those who chose to not have children.

None of the personal situations or personal choices two people make have any tie to respecting YOU no matter what you think.

[ckrobyn]

[quote name='FinelyCruising']ckrobyn...as a matter of fact right before my last cruise (I am leaving again Saturday!) I made the comment, kids will be kids. Now you know and I know exactly what that means....But do expect the usual numerous and predicatably cynical posters to now swarm like buzzards and pick away.;)[/QUOTE]

[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=indigo]You know what FinelyCruising?[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082]A few months ago, I had an opinion and was basically gunned down for it. After spending an innordinate amount of time of these boards since......I have magically grown a backbone! [/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082][/color][/size][/font]
[font=Arial Narrow][size=4][color=#4b0082]And yes.....I know exactly what you mean ;) [/color][/size][/font]