Costa Concordia SINKING

[SomeBeach]

This guy doesn't know when to stop..... The BBC is reporting Italian media saying he has told the judge he "accidentally tripped and fell into a lifeboat!" Absolutley incredible if he has said it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16620807

 

This has been talked about for roughly 24 hrs. If he was helping other folks into a lifeboat and said lifeboat was stuck and he was working to get it loose before he "fell" in, where are the people that were on that lifeboat? Why aren't they speaking up?

Two other officers were also supposedly on that boat? We've not heard anything from them (that I know of.) Did they also fall in?

Why 3 officers for one boat? Were there not other boats or people that needed assistance? Ok, we know there were but you get my drift.

I know it's a long way to getting answers for many questions we have posted throughout this thread. I just hope that those in charge think of some questions similar to ours and work towards the answers.

[SomeBeach]

He tried but couldn't find the ship. It wasn't on his lifeboats map either.

 

Well he wouldn't have been able to see the map anyway. The lights went out.

[Leadft]

He should be behind bars if/when he is convicted of a crime in a court. Until then, the court's only concern is that he shows up for proceedings and isn't a potential danger to the public. House arrest keeps him available, and it's hard to believe that he's a danger to anyone, unless someone lets him drive a ship again.

 

Sorry, I completely disagree. People are held without bail until trial all the time. There is a preponderance of evidence to suggest his actions killed 30+ people. I worry that he will kill himself while at home, and then those 30+ families will never get justice.

[astrocruises]

Stupid puddle of superglue on the floor of the lifeboat!

 

Could be why he needed new socks?

[Leadft]

What we need to remember is that he was on the phone after the incident and not during, therefore using the phone is not part of the cause of the actual 'hitting the foreshore' but can be said as causing the delay in Life saving action by the Captain

 

rgds

 

No, Davyjonesrugrat, that's incorrect. We have been hearing that he was on the phone DURING THE APPROACH -- BEFORE hitting the rocks. He called the person they were doing the flyby for to let him know they were almost there. He was on the phone when the rocks were hit. (At least according to the timeline/cell phone records as reported by media.)

[VermeulT]

Well he wouldn't have been able to see the map anyway. The lights went out.

 

He tried but couldn't find the ship. It wasn't on his lifeboats map either.

 

OMG. You guys keep me laughing.

Everything this guy did and said was absurd. So sad that you just have to laugh.... To keep from crying.

[Tarpeian Rock]

No, Davyjonesrugrat, that's incorrect. We have been hearing that he was on the phone DURING THE APPROACH -- BEFORE hitting the rocks. He called the person they were doing the flyby for to let him know they were almost there. He was on the phone when the rocks were hit. (At least according to the timeline/cell phone records as reported by media.)

 

 

 

And also from what we've been told, AFTER hitting the rocks he was on the phone again -- calling Mommy!!

[HelloHelloHola]

OMG. You guys keep me laughing.

Everything this guy did and said was absurd. So sad that you just have to laugh.... To keep from crying.

 

They say laughing is the best medicine.

[astrocruises]

The Ais, an international system that keeps an eye on the marine traffic 2 , has documented how the Concordia run 52 "bows" in contravention of the rules of the year navigation

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2012%2F01%2F18%2Fnews%2Fquell_inchino_a_procida_celebrato_dalla_compagnia-28346362%2F&act=url

 

In late August of 2010, was at the controls of the Costa Concordia Schettino. The blog of the company deletes the post, and after the controversy, puts it back in line.

[Cruiseorr]

As many others here on the boards, we have been following this story with astonishment and incredulity. My prayers go out to the families of those lost and missing in this tragedy.

 

We have also been speculating about the physics of how the ship finally came to rest beached and facing south. Whether by design, as the Captain wants us to believe, or as a previous poster suggested and I agree, by divine intervention, we will learn more as the black box details are released, but in the end, the Concordia coming to rest in shallow water was the main reason so many people were able to survive.

We would be interested to hear from some of the more experienced sailors we have here on this board to "weigh in" on a theory we have been debating here at home.

 

Having owned small boats for many years, we agree with previous posters here who doubted from the start that the starboard anchor was deployed as a means of swinging the ship around as the Captain initially stated. We would have thought (though we may well be wrong) that if this had been the case, then the ship would have swung clockwise around the anchor, which would mean that the stern of the stricken ship would have swung towards the port of Giglio, which was not the case. It just never seemed right to us hearing reports that the anchor was deployed early in the sequence of this tragedy. And, even if the anchor had been deployed straight away, would not this have compounded the Captain's crime since the ship may have sunk in deeper water and never made it to the beach????

Our theory is that when the Captain made that turn to starboard to commence the "fly by", the aft port side slammed in to the reef. Looking at the close up photos of the damage, it appears there are various (mangled) gears exposed. Could it be that on impact, the port side drive shaft (or whatever it is called on a ship this size) was severed almost instantly with engine power still going at 15 knots. Now, portside prop is dead and all power is on the starboard prop (or whatever you call it on a ship, excuse my ignorance) which continues to spin at high power for a short time. Would this not make the ship's stern slew around and explain the initial tilt to portside?? Then, when the starboard power is lost or cut, the ship rocks back and now begins it's tilt to starboard, and begins foundering from the breach in the hull.

At this point, the ship has slowed to a few knots (momentum?), is listing more and more to starboard, and slowly swinging counterclockwise to face south, taking on water.

During this time, the Master up on the bridge is informed several times by intercom the engine room is flooded and the hull ruptured. Electrical power is now by emergency generator only. You even have passengers phoning emergency services on shore. But for nearly one hour there is no action or order by the officers to muster the passengers to their life boats??!! By anyone's measure, this dereliction of duty and even common sense is beyond comprehension.

 

Could anyone answer a question: With a flooded engine room, could a ship still navigate under power???? By power I mean some sort of propulsion by propeller, azipod or thruster. We wondered if large ships' power plants are engineered to run even when flooded?

If the ship did have some kind of propulsion, which I doubt but perhaps so, and we now know the Captain was on the phone for nearly an hour after the crash, which officer was giving the orders to the Quartermaster on where or how to navigate the ship? Was the ship beached by design or was it wind and currents and divine intervention?

[maggie7667]

From my experience, as a passenger, muster drill location varies from cruise line to cruise line. HAL muster took place at the assigned muster station on the deck near the life boats without our life vests, no names checked, RCCL on deck near life boat without life vests but with names checked, P&O Australia in assigned lounge with life vests no names checked, Princess ( in Australia) in assigned lounge with life vests with names checked on hand held electronic device.

As I see it, the advantage of being mustered in an assigned lounge (area) is that if your dedicated life boat is inoperable staff can direct/escort you to the appropriate location rather than scrambling to find a life boat. Disadvantage of this location is that you have to “follow the leader” to the life boat …..that is ok if I’m within eyesight of the leader but if I’m at the end of the line, I may not be following the correct person or the line is slower moving than my liking etc etc and then causes panic and pushing etc etc.

Disadvantage of being mustered at life boat is that I have to get past other muster stations to get to my assigned station. I would imagine there would be no clear pathway past others waiting to load onto their life boat. What if my assigned life boat is on the “wrong” side and cannot be launched?

 

I would be glad to hear others views on this matter.

 

My last cruises have been on HAL. While they do not have a name roll call, we did have to raise our hands and be accounted for when our cabin number was called. For those who muster drill in places other than the lifeboat area, do they instruct you to report to the same area as the drill or are you instructed to report to the lifeboat in the event of an emergency?

[Cindy]

My last cruises have been on HAL. While they do not have a name roll call, we did have to raise our hands and be accounted for when our cabin number was called. For those who muster drill in places other than the lifeboat area, do they instruct you to report to the same area as the drill or are you instructed to report to the lifeboat in the event of an emergency?

 

On Princess they instruct you to report to your indoor muster station. If evacuation is necessary, the crew will escort you from there to the lifeboats.

[CruisingMouse]

Was doing some reading and found this from a press release stating. "Foschi told reporters that Schettino deviated from the official computerized route taken by more than 100 Costa cruises a year."

 

So I'm wondering given what's happened and with the cruises still going as normal, has there been any change in the route at all? Are there other ships passing this area as we speak? Anyone know?

 

Also read that Costa/Carnival is compensating 10,000 Euro's per passenger. REALLY that's it?? They are going to pay millions to try and repair that hunk of steel. These people braved the worse of the worse to stay alive and left with NOTHING but memories that will haunt them forever and that's the best they can do? Guess it's still all about keeping the corporate pockets full to heck with the survivors.

[dwaynesworld]

..... some speculation ....

 

If it is found that this ship was allowed to pass by this Island more than the one time in August, it would show that the Corp office were in part accountable for the ability for this Captain to think he had the authority to do so.. IOW ( in other words) if we find that this ship and this captain has done this or similar events in the past, and was not disciplined, then they are in part culpable. Further if it is found that Costa regularly allows their Captains to deviate from the prescribed courses on other ships, it looks real bad for the the company as a whole. Corporate culture could be one of the legs of this situation developing.

 

Exactly. I'm not a lawyer but this is a huge part of the legal side. that's why I'm curious if there are CC pax who know "yes we sailed close" or "no we stayed far out."

[FrankNJ]

Very elegant and well thought out scenario CRUISEORR . As your fellow boater I'll share with you what has been my opinion from the beginning . the ship was travelling approximately north when the captain turned to starboard too late to avoid the rocks he had charted a course straight for and the ship's port side hit the rocks . The captain then overreacted and made a wild swinging turn which caused the ship to also impact rocks on its starboard side and to turn

almost 180 degrees . Then to make things worse , he continued to drive the ship towards land , he says " to make it easier to evacuate" but that really made things worse because his drive into shallow water caused the ship to list more and in fact it fell over. If the ship had stopped when it hit the first rock then there would have been plenty of time to load and launch the lifeboats and as a crewmember from concordia wrote "No one would have even gotten their feet wet". I believe his cowardice made him drive towards land to save his own skin and to get himself off the ship as soon as possible. Anyone with any sense would have declared a mayday immediately and issued an abandon ship order an hour or more earlier because lets be honest , what else could they do ? Sail to their next stop and repair a 165 foot gash in the hull and remove the huge boulder ? The captain was notified almost immediately that compartments were flooded and the engine compartments were

flooding . This as not a mayday situation ? Incredible.

 

It appears he had power all the while he was driving the ship closer and closer to giglio and

the fact that the engines are located apparently in several compartments made that possible . His nonsense about dropping the anchor to manuever has been disproved by the video taken by the first arriving coast guard vessel. As a boater , would you drop your anchor at 15 knots , 10 knots forward speed ? Of course not . That action alone might well capsize and sink the boat .

[Zeta3]

As many others here on the boards, we have been following this story with astonishment and incredulity. My prayers go out to the families of those lost and missing in this tragedy.

 

We have also been speculating about the physics of how the ship finally came to rest beached and facing south. Whether by design, as the Captain wants us to believe, or as a previous poster suggested and I agree, by divine intervention, we will learn more as the black box details are released, but in the end, the Concordia coming to rest in shallow water was the main reason so many people were able to survive.

We would be interested to hear from some of the more experienced sailors we have here on this board to "weigh in" on a theory we have been debating here at home.

 

Having owned small boats for many years, we agree with previous posters here who doubted from the start that the starboard anchor was deployed as a means of swinging the ship around as the Captain initially stated. We would have thought (though we may well be wrong) that if this had been the case, then the ship would have swung clockwise around the anchor, which would mean that the stern of the stricken ship would have swung towards the port of Giglio, which was not the case. It just never seemed right to us hearing reports that the anchor was deployed early in the sequence of this tragedy. And, even if the anchor had been deployed straight away, would not this have compounded the Captain's crime since the ship may have sunk in deeper water and never made it to the beach????

Our theory is that when the Captain made that turn to starboard to commence the "fly by", the aft port side slammed in to the reef. Looking at the close up photos of the damage, it appears there are various (mangled) gears exposed. Could it be that on impact, the port side drive shaft (or whatever it is called on a ship this size) was severed almost instantly with engine power still going at 15 knots. Now, portside prop is dead and all power is on the starboard prop (or whatever you call it on a ship, excuse my ignorance) which continues to spin at high power for a short time. Would this not make the ship's stern slew around and explain the initial tilt to portside?? Then, when the starboard power is lost or cut, the ship rocks back and now begins it's tilt to starboard, and begins foundering from the breach in the hull.

At this point, the ship has slowed to a few knots (momentum?), is listing more and more to starboard, and slowly swinging counterclockwise to face south, taking on water.

During this time, the Master up on the bridge is informed several times by intercom the engine room is flooded and the hull ruptured. Electrical power is now by emergency generator only. You even have passengers phoning emergency services on shore. But for nearly one hour there is no action or order by the officers to muster the passengers to their life boats??!! By anyone's measure, this dereliction of duty and even common sense is beyond comprehension.

 

Could anyone answer a question: With a flooded engine room, could a ship still navigate under power???? By power I mean some sort of propulsion by propeller, azipod or thruster. We wondered if large ships' power plants are engineered to run even when flooded?

If the ship did have some kind of propulsion, which I doubt but perhaps so, and we now know the Captain was on the phone for nearly an hour after the crash, which officer was giving the orders to the Quartermaster on where or how to navigate the ship? Was the ship beached by design or was it wind and currents and divine intervention?

 

 

Great points! I hadn't thought of 15 knots on one side causing the spin, seems plausible.

[Canadian Karebear]

Can you see the classified ad.

 

For Sale...

 

Late model ship.

New paint.

Recently renovated.

Unused state of the art navigation system.

 

Best offer.

 

 

 

 

Uh...give me the Carfax...

 

 

.... will even throw in a captain at no extra charge....

[CruisingMouse]

Anyone with any sense would have declared a mayday immediately and issued an abandon ship order an hour or more earlier because lets be honest , what else could they do ? Sail to their next stop and repair a 165 foot gash in the hull and remove the huge boulder ?

 

Thanks for making me laugh throughout all the bad in this disaster!! I only hope the judges over seeing his case are going to add all the good common sense (along with the evidence that is piling up) that all you fellow posters have come up with!

[Janman]

CNN has just run a segment about the Concordia showing a newspaper headline calling the captain "Chicken of the Sea"!

[CruisingMouse]

.... will even throw in a captain at no extra charge....

 

Although this story is so heart breaking...but included in the ad!

 

"Costa cruise line is offering lifetime scuba lessons, no equipment needed"

[BirdmanBilly]

The Captain's middle name is "Bull"

[JJSMaine]

........ The captain then overreacted and made a wild swinging turn which caused the ship to also impact rocks on its starboard side and to turn almost 180 degrees .

 

There are no rocks to the right of the point where he was... the ship would have had to have done a complete 180 to hit the right side..

[newbatgirl]

LOL...just googled it. Ya...nothing close to damn it! :o

 

Indeed it is not! Wow, that changes the tone of the conversation!

[Cuizer2]

I am not "teaching" insurance.

I'm informing on certain aspects of what I know. I have been doing this a very long time, and have a degree in this Industry (held many years).

 

I just think that armchair insurance underwriters such as yourself sometimes need to look at the information you are providing and remember the scale you are informing about.

 

The original discussion is about Marine Insurance.

That's the topic at hand.

 

The size of your assets is not the question or was the question. It was useless information you chose to provide based on what? :confused: (I would like to see examples of this but that's another thread for another day).

 

We are talking about a large scale insurance risk here, on a Manuscript Marine Policy shared between 5 (I believe it was 5 that I counted) re-insurance companies.

 

Not your CGL coverage for a parking lot or a few cars.

 

Nuff said.

 

Gee, my "arm chair" experience is limited to 30 years of claims handling, including $1,000,000+ claims and policy interpretation. I was not referring to a maritime policy as my examples indicted. I was providing general information on an excess policy - again as my examples indicated. I have dealt with Certain Underwriters at Lloyds on several occasions and I am currently working with a London based insured.

 

A company's ability to pay a claim is directly related to its assets. As I pointed out in my LAND based example, this explanation was good enough for the person at the stadium.

 

In the last ten years I have watched as several insurers have been seized by the state department of insurance because the carrier no longer had enough assets to pay its claims. Though I do not currently work for Hertz, I note that it is still in business.

 

If you want to continue to nit pick by comparing apples (homeowner, auto and health insurance) to oranges (maritime insurance) that is your choice.

 

If you want to know the insurance information for Carnival and this loss, I have posted it before, but just for you, I'll post it again ...

 

ISOLA DEL GIGLIO, Italy—The cruise liner that ran aground off the Tuscan coast of Italy on Friday has insurance retentions for hull and liability losses, and insurance placed in the international markets.The Costa Concordia ran aground near the island of Giglio on Friday with about 3,200 passengers and 1,000 crew aboard.Six people are known to have died, and 16 are missing.

 

Insurance coverages

 

In a statement, Miami-based Carnival Corp. & P.L.C., the parent company of Costa Cruises Group, which operated the vessel, said it had insurance coverage for damage to the ship above a retention of $30 million and third-party personal liability coverage above a retention of $10 million. The company said it was self-insured for loss of use of the vessel which is expected to be out of service until at least Nov. 30 if not longer.The London-based Standard P&I Club confirmed Monday that it is the lead protection and indemnity insurer for the cruise ship. Trieste, Italy-based Assicurazioni Generali S.p.A., Hanover, Germany-based Hannover Reinsurance Co., London-based RSA Insurance Group P.L.C. and XL Group P.L.C. are among the ship's insurers, sources said, and some of the coverage is placed at Lloyd's of London.RSA's exposure is likely to be in the single-digit millions, according to a source.Aon Corp. is the broker for the ship's coverage, sources said. A spokeswoman for Aon declined to comment.Carnival Corp. is listed in New York and London.

 

Incident under investigation

 

The 114,500-tonne Costa Concordia had recently departed for a seven-day Mediterranean cruise when it hit a rock at about 10 p.m. Central European Time and began to list severely. In a statement, Carnival Corp. said it was “working to fully understand the cause of what occurred.”The captain of the ship is being questioned by Italian prosecutors.

[Milaandra]

I think it's going to take a long time to sort through the information and misinformation to come close to the truth of any of this.

 

Check this out...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405

 

(I hope I did that right)

 

It's the video quite far down the page talking about Lloyd's List intelligence.