Costa Concordia SINKING

[Cuizer2]

Dear Cuizer2,

 

Sometimes giving G.I. may not be what the reader sees.

 

 

On Market Cap: $ 5.4 B Hertz (HTZ :NYSE), HQ in Bergen County, the Borough of Park Ridge, New Jersey 07656-9999 are not the best Corporate neighbors, yes very short on the pay/benefits they provide Hertz people too. They have done a few changes in well juggling I would say more in Corporate Accounting as well Ownership. Yes only providing themselves with the best parts.. hmm..sounds like this Ship Master who wrecked by Show-Boating again..eh..

 

FDX :NYSE Federal Express Corporation, is mostly Self Insured and No Unions also, but only Pilots Union and they have to carry coverages for this area.:D

 

 

There is a reason I am no longer with Hertz. However, how good a neighbor Hertz is (or is not) was not the reason I used the example I used.

[SomeBeach]

.... will even throw in a captain at no extra charge....

 

I'd take the ship but throwing in the Captain would be a deal breaker.

[judybee]

My last cruises have been on HAL. While they do not have a name roll call, we did have to raise our hands and be accounted for when our cabin number was called. For those who muster drill in places other than the lifeboat area, do they instruct you to report to the same area as the drill or are you instructed to report to the lifeboat in the event of an emergency?

 

From my experience, as a passenger, muster drill location varies from cruise line to cruise line. HAL muster took place at the assigned muster station on the deck near the life boats without our life vests, no names checked, RCCL on deck near life boat without life vests but with names checked, P&O Australia in assigned lounge with life vests no names checked, Princess ( in Australia) in assigned lounge with life vests with names checked on hand held electronic device.

 

As I see it, the advantage of being mustered in an assigned lounge (area) is that if your dedicated life boat is inoperable staff can direct/escort you to the appropriate location rather than scrambling to find a life boat. Disadvantage of this location is that you have to “follow the leader” to the life boat …..that is ok if I’m within eyesight of the leader but if I’m at the end of the line, I may not be following the correct person or the line is slower moving than my liking etc etc and then causes panic and pushing etc etc.

Disadvantage of being mustered at life boat is that I have to get past other muster stations to get to my assigned station. I would imagine there would be no clear pathway past others waiting to load onto their life boat. What if my assigned life boat is on the “wrong” side and cannot be launched?

 

I would be glad to hear others views on this matter.

 

I was recently on an NCL cruise and we were directed (without life vests) to the theater and our names checked. It was a bit disorganized and I had to find a crew member to give him our room number. I don't remember any instruction about what to do in case of an actual emergency. Because of this disaster I think all cruise lines will have to re-think their muster procedures and take into account various scenarios.

[Canadian Karebear]

Gee, my "arm chair" experience is limited to 30 years of claims handling, including $1,000,000+ claims and policy interpretation. I was not referring to a maritime policy as my examples indicted. I was providing general information on an excess policy - again as my examples indicated. I have dealt with Certain Underwriters at Lloyds on several occasions and I am currently working with a London based insured.

 

A company's ability to pay a claim is directly related to its assets. As I pointed out in my LAND based example, this explanation was good enough for the person at the stadium.

 

In the last ten years I have watched as several insurers have been seized by the state department of insurance because the carrier no longer had enough assets to pay its claims. Though I do not currently work for Hertz, I note that it is still in business.

 

If you want to continue to nit pick by comparing apples (homeowner, auto and health insurance) to oranges (maritime insurance) that is your choice.

 

If you want to know the insurance information for Carnival and this loss, I have posted it before, but just for you, I'll post it again ...

 

ISOLA DEL GIGLIO, Italy—The cruise liner that ran aground off the Tuscan coast of Italy on Friday has insurance retentions for hull and liability losses, and insurance placed in the international markets.The Costa Concordia ran aground near the island of Giglio on Friday with about 3,200 passengers and 1,000 crew aboard.Six people are known to have died, and 16 are missing.

 

Insurance coverages

 

In a statement, Miami-based Carnival Corp. & P.L.C., the parent company of Costa Cruises Group, which operated the vessel, said it had insurance coverage for damage to the ship above a retention of $30 million and third-party personal liability coverage above a retention of $10 million. The company said it was self-insured for loss of use of the vessel which is expected to be out of service until at least Nov. 30 if not longer.The London-based Standard P&I Club confirmed Monday that it is the lead protection and indemnity insurer for the cruise ship. Trieste, Italy-based Assicurazioni Generali S.p.A., Hanover, Germany-based Hannover Reinsurance Co., London-based RSA Insurance Group P.L.C. and XL Group P.L.C. are among the ship's insurers, sources said, and some of the coverage is placed at Lloyd's of London.RSA's exposure is likely to be in the single-digit millions, according to a source.Aon Corp. is the broker for the ship's coverage, sources said. A spokeswoman for Aon declined to comment.Carnival Corp. is listed in New York and London.

 

Incident under investigation

 

The 114,500-tonne Costa Concordia had recently departed for a seven-day Mediterranean cruise when it hit a rock at about 10 p.m. Central European Time and began to list severely. In a statement, Carnival Corp. said it was “working to fully understand the cause of what occurred.”The captain of the ship is being questioned by Italian prosecutors.

 

Still not convinced. Your original post noted you worked with Hertz. You cited examples that are very limited for your "vast" knowledge.

 

I guess it's one of those "believe it when I see it" issues.

 

A company is run by (generally) it's stockholders that do have a say in what is happening and who is insuring. They have a vested interest in same.

 

Please bear in mind that this is a forum about a Cruise Ship that is facing a large loss. I suggest we stick to the issue at hand and not get involved with people's auto or home insurance or digressing off the issue at hand.

 

If you don't understand Marine Insurance, please move onto another post and discuss what you do know. Or perhaps an insurance based message board?

 

In the last ten years I have watched as several insurers have been seized by the state department of insurance because the carrier no longer had enough assets to pay its claims. Though I do not currently work for Hertz, I note that it is still in business.

 

Again, this is not proven until I see more information.

Are you insinuating that Costa's insurers don't have enough money to pay for it's loss? Tread lightly here.

 

PS: I don't need to cite my experience or my degree, it's not necessary as my information proves my knowledge. Too bad you worked soley in claims, and didn't actually sell the product, your knowledge may have been expanded.

[Ravenscroft]

I think it's going to take a long time to sort through the information and misinformation to come close to the truth of any of this.

 

Check this out...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405

 

(I hope I did that right)

 

It's the video quite far down the page talking about Lloyd's List intelligence.

 

Thanks for that Milaandra, it works fine btw.

I have to say that although I don't deny there were terrible mistakes made by the Captain, my first response to the statements from Costa was that their finger pointing was definitely a covering their own a$$ gesture.

I too feel that there is a lot more information that is being covered up right now...I just hope that the truth does come out fully.

[Canadian Karebear]

There is a reason I am no longer with Hertz. However, how good a neighbor Hertz is (or is not) was not the reason I used the example I used.

 

So were you with Hertz or adjusting claims for an insurance company?

 

So confused.:confused::confused::confused:

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

OCould it be that on impact, the port side drive shaft (or whatever it is called on a ship this size) was severed almost instantly with engine power still going at 15 knots. Now, portside prop is dead and all power is on the starboard prop (or whatever you call it on a ship, excuse my ignorance) which continues to spin at high power for a short time. Would this not make the ship's stern slew around and explain the initial tilt to portside?? Then, when the starboard power is lost or cut, the ship rocks back and now begins it's tilt to starboard, and begins foundering from the breach in the hull.

 

When I asked my husband to explain why the ship might be turned to face south when it was without power, the explanation you give is essentially what he told me. He's a scientist, not a boater, but his theory us much the same as yours.

[wilsonqbc]

I believe Congress needs to just give the cruise lines some time to work through this issue on their own to see what they plan to do. Unfortunately I also believe some people have called on Congress to do something, anything to butt into this.

 

You are kidding right? Not a issue for USA congress at all, its IMO regulations which are international, USA flagged Your cruise will cost you at least 10 x more, You need US crew, if USA flagged they would have to pay a lot of Tax on any profits too, Ok accidents happen now and then, same as Pilot error on how many plane crashes, Spirit of America I think has usa flag and crew how they manage it I dont know.

[tofubeast]

From my experience, as a passenger, muster drill location varies from cruise line to cruise line. HAL muster took place at the assigned muster station on the deck near the life boats without our life vests, no names checked, RCCL on deck near life boat without life vests but with names checked, P&O Australia in assigned lounge with life vests no names checked, Princess ( in Australia) in assigned lounge with life vests with names checked on hand held electronic device.

 

 

I think it varies by ship, crew, cruise line. I have been on RCCL a couple times. The first time, we did the drill in the lounge. My most 'recent' cruise (which was 4.5 years ago..wah!!) was on RCCL. We left out of Miami and were instructed to get our life vests and report to our stations which were by the lifeboats. The latter was true for my two cruises on Celebrity, one of which left out of Civitavecchia. I recall all our drills (incl the Med cruise) happening before the ship sailed away.

 

I am curious if cruise lines have already altered how they conduct their drills. It will be interesting to hear cruising experiences from others in the next couple of weeks. My coworker was on a short Carnival cruise this past weekend out of Miami. I wondered if people were freaked out seeing the news while on board, but she said no one seemed to pay much attention.

[TVMet]

When I asked my husband to explain why the ship might be turned to face south when it was without power, the explanation you give is essentially what he told me. He's a scientist, not a boater, but his theory us much the same as yours.

 

But if this ship had Azipods, it wouldn't have a drive shaft.

[LovingCrusing]

Still not convinced. Your original post noted you worked with Hertz. You cited examples that are very limited for your "vast" knowledge.

 

I guess it's one of those "believe it when I see it" issues.

 

A company is run by (generally) it's stockholders that do have a say in what is happening and who is insuring. They have a vested interest in same.

 

Please bear in mind that this is a forum about a Cruise Ship that is facing a large loss. I suggest we stick to the issue at hand and not get involved with people's auto or home insurance or digressing off the issue at hand.

 

If you don't understand Marine Insurance, please move onto another post and discuss what you do know. Or perhaps an insurance based message board?

 

In the last ten years I have watched as several insurers have been seized by the state department of insurance because the carrier no longer had enough assets to pay its claims. Though I do not currently work for Hertz, I note that it is still in business.

 

Again, this is not proven until I see more information.

Are you insinuating that Costa's insurers don't have enough money to pay for it's loss? Tread lightly here.

 

PS: I don't need to cite my experience or my degree, it's not necessary as my information proves my knowledge. Too bad you worked soley in claims, and didn't actually sell the product, your knowledge may have been expanded.

 

Just trolling here, and have to agree with Canadain KearBear. It doesn't make any sense if it's not marine related?

Do the insurance companys not have money? is that what im reading?

 

Can we keep this on topic please?

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

But if this ship had Azipods, it wouldn't have a drive shaft.

 

I don't believe she did.

[LovingCrusing]

Thanks for that Milaandra, it works fine btw.

I have to say that although I don't deny there were terrible mistakes made by the Captain, my first response to the statements from Costa was that their finger pointing was definitely a covering their own a$$ gesture.

I too feel that there is a lot more information that is being covered up right now...I just hope that the truth does come out fully.

 

I agree, it's important to wait and see for sure. We only know what the media tells us.

[JJSMaine]

But if this ship had Azipods, it wouldn't have a drive shaft.

 

 

If the impact did the damage it did, it is also possible to have snapped off the port side pod, resulting in the starboard side continuing on at 15 knot rpm's for a short while, until the ship lost power and perhaps did a very long and wide 180 ending up where it is??

 

 

however

 

This conflicts with the data map put out by Lloyd's through the BBC that shows last August's track as well as last Friday's. It shows the ship at a point significantly north of it current location. If this map is accurate, then they must have had propulsion power beyond the outage encountered after the initial strike.

[Loonbeam]

Again correction accepted and appreciated. For some reason I keep having a brain lock between the two, dang it.

 

No. That's still not right.

 

Carnival Corporation owns both Carnival Cruise Lines AND Costa.

Carnival Cruise Lines and Costa are sister companies, both held by Carnival Corporation.

 

You can say that the Concordia is a Carnival Corporation ship, just like the Ruby Princess or the Carnival Valor... but you cannot say that the Concordia is a Carnival Cruise Lines ship. (Well... you can say it, but you wouldn't be right.)

 

This is further confused by the fact that many CC'ers refer to Carnival Cruise Lines as CCL, but the NYSE refers to Carnival Corporation as CCL.

[Loonbeam]

As I understand it, the 10,000 per euros per passenger will be a flat amount as a starting point and then individual claims can be made over and above that. This makes sense instead of having every single person have to itemize lost property, etc.

 

One thing I haven't found out is does Italian or International law put a camp on damage claims for lost property (much like there is for airlines)?

 

Was doing some reading and found this from a press release stating. "Foschi told reporters that Schettino deviated from the official computerized route taken by more than 100 Costa cruises a year."

 

So I'm wondering given what's happened and with the cruises still going as normal, has there been any change in the route at all? Are there other ships passing this area as we speak? Anyone know?

 

Also read that Costa/Carnival is compensating 10,000 Euro's per passenger. REALLY that's it?? They are going to pay millions to try and repair that hunk of steel. These people braved the worse of the worse to stay alive and left with NOTHING but memories that will haunt them forever and that's the best they can do? Guess it's still all about keeping the corporate pockets full to heck with the survivors.

[Loonbeam]

Do a random survey on the street and ask 20 people what a holding company does. I'd be surprised if more than 10 were correct.

 

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to distinguish the cruise line from the parent company. They are NOT the same thing.

 

Carnival Corporation & plc is not the same as Carnival Cruise Lines. One is the holding (parent) company (corporation), the other is a cruise line (with ships).

[Cruiseorr]

Thank you FrankNJ. From the beginning, Captain Schettino's stories have not made any sense! He had to know immediately that he had run aground so why indeed would he set the hook of a sinking ship right in front of the harbor mouth and in deep water no less if there were any chance of making it safely to shore?

 

We were wondering about the mechanics of this today since it looks as though the Captain is going to claim that by design he navigated that ship on the beach, and how it was this action that saved 4000 lives.

The point is, if not for the criminal and insane actions of this skipper, those 4000 lives would not have been in need of saving in the first place.

My late father was in the Merchant Marine and later the US Navy and I remember he had a saying that "we're all responsible for our own wake".

[Charles4515]

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to distinguish the cruise line from the parent company. They are NOT the same thing.

 

Carnival Corporation & plc is not the same as Carnival Cruise Lines. One is the holding (parent) company (corporation), the other is a cruise line (with ships).

 

That is why most recommend that a holding company have a different name. However despite that to be honest, Carnival and it's brands are the same thing. No reason to obfuscate like some want to. Carnival the parent company is where the buck stops for all it's brands, Costa, Carnival, Holland America, Princess. The parent company is the owner and hires the managers for all the brands. All profits and losses go to the parent company.

[jopocop]

This one is real good by the Captain:

 

He tripped into the lifeboat, so that is how he left the ship.

 

He did not know how to trip back into the ship......

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57361085/report-captain-claims-he-tripped-into-lifeboat/

[LovingCrusing]

As I understand it, the 10,000 per euros per passenger will be a flat amount as a starting point and then individual claims can be made over and above that. This makes sense instead of having every single person have to itemize lost property, etc.

 

One thing I haven't found out is does Italian or International law put a camp on damage claims for lost property (much like there is for airlines)?

 

That's a godo question. I wonder if it is the law where the people are from? or where the ship is registerd?

[Ozcruiser1]

Is anyone on this forum able to inform me if, in say the past 10 yrs, any other cruise ship has had to deploy all the life boats? What, if any changes to evacuations procedures were adopted from those (if any) events?

 

I would hope that there would some way for the passengers and crew involved in to this recent incident be able to respond in some manner as to the effectiveness of the evacuation procedures that took place and for them to offer suggestions for improvements to procedures.

 

It would appear to me that the court/legal system will deal with the actions of the captain, but it will be up to the cruise industry to implement procedures for the safe/safer evacuation. I would hope that we, past and future passengers on cruise ships will benefit from the experiences of those who went through this tragic event. I'm sure there must ways to better manage 4,000 people who all must have been in a stressful state.

[SomeBeach]

I believe Congress needs to just give the cruise lines some time to work through this issue on their own to see what they plan to do. Unfortunately I also believe some people have called on Congress to do something' date=' anything to butt into this.[/color']

 

You are kidding right? Not a issue for USA congress at all, its IMO regulations which are international, USA flagged Your cruise will cost you at least 10 x more, You need US crew, if USA flagged they would have to pay a lot of Tax on any profits too, Ok accidents happen now and then, same as Pilot error on how many plane crashes, Spirit of America I think has usa flag and crew how they manage it I dont know.

 

Ok Wilson, help me out here. I hate to mention this because I never correct/question posts because I can usually figure them out. Unfortunately I don't know where you are ending sentences so you have me very confused. You question my post by asking if "I'm kidding." Then you seem to go on to anything USA involved will cost a fortune, which again leads me to believe you don't want the USA involved. I am saying I don't believe Congress needs to get involved in this right now. You, in the area I've highlighted in red, are saying the same, if I have followed you correctly.

I then go on to say that I believe some people may have requested Congress to look into this. Not me, but possibly someone. Or Congress may have just decided to do so on their own as we have 2 missing Americans on this ship. They want answers, as I'm sure the family of the missing couple does.

All I did in my original post was mention that Congress wants hearings on this. Another poster from Ireland responded that they didn't like that idea. My response, I clarified above. There are not enough facts out as yet but I'm pretty sure that all cruise lines are looking at what has happened here and how they can make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Rancher Dave]

Is anyone on this forum able to inform me if, in say the past 10 yrs, any other cruise ship has had to deploy all the life boats? What, if any changes to evacuations procedures were adopted from those (if any) events?

 

I would hope that there would some way for the passengers and crew involved in to this recent incident be able to respond in some manner as to the effectiveness of the evacuation procedures that took place and for them to offer suggestions for improvements to procedures.

 

It would appear to me that the court/legal system will deal with the actions of the captain, but it will be up to the cruise industry to implement procedures for the safe/safer evacuation. I would hope that we, past and future passengers on cruise ships will benefit from the experiences of those who went through this tragic event. I'm sure there must ways to better manage 4,000 people who all must have been in a stressful state.

 

 

Yes a cruise ship sank off Antarctica a few years ago. Of course the evac was organized, then they sat for a while before other ships came over and picked them all up. If I recall correctly everyone made it off ok.

[OneOneNiner]

Is anyone on this forum able to inform me if, in say the past 10 yrs, any other cruise ship has had to deploy all the life boats?

 

Achille Lauro, 1994: