Costa Concordia SINKING

[JJSMaine]

The gCaptain video is very good. Assuming that the data stream is accurate, we now know the physical actions of the ship. ( adding the list degree and direction info on to that would be icing, eh?)

 

Note the discussion on the page below the video, about the use of bow thrusters, or not, and the use of anchors, or not, and the effect of the wind and currents on movements if any... .

 

Does anyone get a sense of time period from the impact with rocks to the stern running aground?

 

A week later and I am still stunned...

 

here is a link to the gCaptain video for those not wanting to go back and search for it.. and thanks to org poster.

 

http://gcaptain.com/gcaptains-john-konrad-narrates-the-final-maneuvers-of-the-costa-concordia-video/

[SarniaLo]

This is speculation from a cruiser's (their own boats) forum I belong to...Again, only speculation, but since it appears the captain was both dumbstruck by the unfolding events and in a CYA mode, it makes sense. In past posts, folks have mentioned that perhaps getting the crippled ship in close to shore was this captain's only redeeming act, but if the winds were how this graphic depict, then I guess the captain got a free ride. This speculation would explain both the orientation of the vessel and the list to both port and starboard. Visualize a vessel dead in the water being carried by wind to a lee shore, as it is pushed, the hull comes in contact with the steep shelf of the shoreline. This could cause a free surface effect in the flooded areas to cause the capsize opposite the original list.

This is pretty much the theory developed in the gCaptain's video, no?

[Hebersgyll]

Here's The Tee Shirt I Want

 

 

 

 

"Hi There Sailor"

 

There's an old,old,saying, if you'll excuse my French, " the hand that w***s the skipper steers the ship!" ....... on to the rocks in this case.

[deckofficer]

The gCaptain video is very good. Assuming that the data stream is accurate, we now know the physical actions of the ship. ( adding the list degree and direction info on to that would be icing, eh?)

 

Note the discussion on the page below the video, about the use of bow thrusters, or not, and the use of anchors, or not, and the effect of the wind and currents on movements if any... .

 

Does anyone get a sense of time period from the impact with rocks to the stern running aground?

 

A week later and I am still stunned...

 

here is a link to the gCaptain video for those not wanting to go back and search for it.. and thanks to org poster.

 

http://gcaptain.com/gcaptains-john-konrad-narrates-the-final-maneuvers-of-the-costa-concordia-video/

 

Thanks for the link, I had seen it before but it didn't have the audio narration, which was very insightful. With so many links offered in this thread to click on, I recommend this one that JJSMaine provided.

[Cuizer2]

I would appreciate it Cruizer 2. Sometimes information is incorrect, and knowing that both the Splendor and Concordia were slated for Costa, and were sister ships, why would one have one type of propulsion and not the other.

 

Thanks for digging deep!:)

 

Rick

 

Did you see my earlier post (#3333) where I provided links to other articles describing the Concordia propulsion system ...

 

I took the information from the 2008 Complete Guide to Cruising & Cruise Ships by Douglas Ward.

 

However, the following article says it has a conventional rudder and propeller shaft ...

 

https://gcaptain.com/wrong-costa-concordia-analysis/?37549

 

Here is another article that originally said (on Jan 14) that the ship had azipods and updated itself on Jan 15 saying the ship did not have azipods.

 

http://gcaptain.com/loss-electrical-power-costa-concordia/?37470

 

This ship is a sister to the Carnival Splendor which has a conventional rudder and propeller shaft (again per Douglas Ward's book).

 

So, there appears to be mixed information about this.

[TVMet]

Did you see my earlier post (#3333) where I provided links to other articles describing the Concordia propulsion system ...

 

Yes, the Carnival Dream's captain said they stopped using Azipods after the Spirit class ships and all ships since have had the traditional design. He said they were "nothing but problems". So since this would include the Carnival Splendor, it was also include the Costa Concorida class.

[EVALUATOR]

In past posts, folks have mentioned that perhaps getting the crippled ship in close to shore was this captain's only redeeming act, but if the winds were how this graphic depict, then I guess the captain got a free ride.

 

Visualize a vessel dead in the water being carried by wind to a lee shore, as it is pushed, the hull comes in contact with the steep shelf of the shoreline.

 

That same "free ride" the craptain might have received allowing the damaged ship drift to shore might have also contributed to a slightly more western track of a manually operated ship approaching the impact zone.

 

50 meters would have made all the difference in the world.

[Janman]

From the time stamps on the mapped simulation posted in the link above by gCaptain it shows hitting the rock at approx 20:43 and final beaching on the shore at approx. 21:58 (1 hr and 15 minutes). It seems like a very accurate description of what happened based on the positioning readings that they have.

[CoronaCRZR]

I just wish he had his computer plugged in! The pedaling in the background was rather annoying to listen to. :D

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

 

 

Yes I was wondering what that noise was in the background, now I know:)

[HelloHelloHola]

Yes I was wondering what that noise was in the background, now I know:)

 

At first, I thought he was using hamsters to pedal a bicycle in order to generate electricity for the PC. But then I noticed as he zoomed in, the pedaling is faster.

[mferris77]

At first, I thought he was using hamsters to pedal a bicycle in order to generate electricity for the PC. But then I noticed as he zoomed in, the pedaling is faster.

 

Sounded like a washing machine to me, very distracting, but very informative nonetheless.

[jopocop]

Costa Concordia: cruise ship captain 'cried like a baby'

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9028612/Costa-Concordia-cruise-ship-captain-cried-like-a-baby.html

 

 

Father Raffaele Malena said he was among the last to leave the ship at around 1.30am local time on Saturday and then stayed "close to the injured" in the tiny harbour of Giglio.

"I descended on the rope ladder. I was picked up by a little lifeboat," he said.

Around an hour later, the captain, Franceso Schettino, appeared.

"I spoke to the captain. He embraced me for about a quarter of an hour and cried like a baby," Father Malena told French magazine Famille Chrétienne.

"Of course, it's a case of human error because shouldn't have been so close to the island," he said of the disaster, in which 11 people died 21 are missing. "But it's not for me to judge. The experts will see to that."

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But he staunchly denied some reported claims that the crew had been incompetent and unhelpful in helping terrified passengers escape to lifeboats.

"These boys, my boys, are not only heroes, they are super heroes," he said.

"My boys knew they were going to die but they didn't abandon their posts."

"There were heroes of all nationalities … They were shaking with fear. They were threatened. They were telling people to stop boarding lifeboats which were full but people were getting in anyway," he said.

"(The press) can throw as much mud as they want on their faces, but they can't say the boys didn't work, that they weren't trained."

At one stage, he saw a little girl fall down. "I took her in my arms, reassured her and returned her to her mother further back. They got into a lifeboat."

Recounting the crash, he said that he was returning to his cabin after dinner when "I felt a big shock, a noise. I fell to the ground, as the boat rocked from side to side … The electricity cut out."

A few minutes later the boat turned violently. "The captain cast the anchor," he said. "Some – who consider themselves experts – say he made a mistake; for others, he did the right thing as the boat turned on itself and thus we didn't hit the rocks."

At this stage the boat was around 150 to 200 metres from the land.

"I saw a few members of the crew who were working in the engine rooms. They told me: "We are all going to die. On the hull we have a 70m-long gash with a rock inside and another about 10m long."

The priest said he went to pray for a few moments in the ship's chapel before leaving the ship.

"Baby Jesus was still in his manger. I told him, crying like a child: 'We are all about to die. I'm asking you for nothing short of a miracle. Please let as few people die as possible!'"

Father Malena has returned to his village of Ciro Marina in Calabria.

 

 

GIVEN THIS, THE CAPTAIN WILL BE CRYING A WHOLE LOT MORE WHEN THE HAMMER HITS DOWN IN COURT AND HE IS CONVICTED FOR HIS CRIMES.

[Feelin' Nauti']

 

 

GIVEN THIS, THE CAPTAIN WILL BE CRYING A WHOLE LOT MORE WHEN THE HAMMER HITS DOWN IN COURT AND HE IS CONVICTED FOR HIS CRIMES.

He'll be crying when he gets hammered by his room mate in his cell. ;)

[jopocop]

Cowardice at sea is no crime -- at least in the U.S.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-italy-ship-maritimelaw-idUSTRE80J1R020120120

 

(Reuters) - When Captain Francesco Schettino hopped a life boat after the Costa Concordia hit a rock off the Tuscany coast, he violated a sacred maritime tradition: that a captain should be the last to leave his ship.

 

He also is accused of violating the law. Italian maritime code criminalizes the act of abandoning ship and Schettino was placed under house arrest, accused of causing the disaster and then jumping ship before the evacuation was complete.

 

Countries have adopted different maritime codes over the centuries and the responsibilities of a captain can be traced to a 12th century French document called the Rolls of Oleron, which established the first known outlines of maritime law.

 

The sailor's code that's developed from the rolls - or rules - has been celebrated in everything from Conrad's Lord Jim, about a young seaman who abandons a ship in distress, to the 1960s U.S. television show Gilligan's Island theme song, with the lyric, "If not for the courage of the fearless crew, The Minnow would be lost!"

 

In the United States, the rule that a captain should be the last to leave a distressed ship is not a criminal offense. The Westlaw online legal research service shows the phrase "abandon ship" turned up 618 decisions but none addressed a captain's decision to leave a ship before his passengers.

 

The closest U.S. law that appears to take on the act of leaving a ship before passengers and crew is seaman's manslaughter, which criminalizes a captain's misconduct or negligence that result in deaths. A version of the statute was used to convict a seaman in the 19th century who abandoned 31 passengers aboard a sinking ship on its way to Philadelphia from Liverpool.

 

But the seaman' manslaughter has rarely been invoked in recent years -- cited in just 22 court decisions since 1976, none of which involved accusations against a captain leaving a ship prematurely, according to Westlaw.

 

The issue of abandoning ship has been discussed widely since the Costa Concordia's crash last week. According to the Italian Coast Guard, Schettino not only jumped into a lifeboat before there had been an accounting of the more than 4,000 passengers and crew, he also refused a coast guard's plea to return.

 

Schettino, who was arrested a day after the boat capsized, has denied accusations that he acted cowardly. He says he fell into the lifeboat while helping other passengers, according to a report in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

 

THE SAILOR'S HONOR CODE

 

In Italy, a commander who leaves before his passengers can be sent to jail for up to two years. If he jumps ship and people die, he can be sentenced to eight years in jail.

 

"It's based on the sailor's honor code," said Luca C.M. Melchionna, a professor at St. John's University School of Law in New York.

 

The concept that a ship's master has specific duties was popularized in Britain by Eleanor of Acquitaine around 1160, after she had become the Queen of England. Based on the Rolls of Oleron, the rules mostly addressed commercial concerns like the condition of cargo.

 

Over time, different countries adopted aspects of the Rolls for their admiralty law. After the sinking of Titanic in 1912, several nations signed the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, which addressed safety requirements for ships such as the number of lifeboats needed. The treaty requires that the master of a ship at sea "proceed with all speed" to help any person in distress, if possible. It doesn't mention when it's acceptable for a captain to leave a ship in danger.

 

"There is no basis in international law for the notion that the captain goes down with the ship, or that he is the last to leave the ship," said Vice Admiral Sir Alan Massey, chief executive of the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency and a former senior officer in the Royal Navy.

 

It has been up to individual countries to enact their own criminal maritime laws. In the U.S., for example, the seaman's manslaughter statute was passed in the mid-19th century after several fatal steamboat accidents.

 

There's no shortage of inspiring tales of seamen following the honor code. William Lewis Herndon, commander of the commercial mail steamer Central America in the 19th century, got women and children safely off the sinking ship, and stayed behind and drowned with more than 400 passengers and crew who couldn't escape. Though historical accounts differ on the death of Edward John Smith, the captain of the Titanic, in the 1997 movie he's shown stoically gripping the ship's wheel before water gushes into the bridge and kills him.

 

Of course, not every seafaring figure with a story was a hero. A yarn that has haunted mariners for years comes from Conrad's Lord Jim, who fantasized about being a hero if an emergency ever arose at sea, said Craig Allen, Sr., a visiting professor of maritime studies at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy.

 

"When the emergency really did arise he proved to be a coward instead," he said.

 

IT LOOKS LIKE THE US CONGRESS NEEDS TO EVALUATE WHAT SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE THE LAW FOR THE SHIP CAPTAINS DURING TIMES OF SHIP EMERGENCIES AND WHAT THEY NEED TO OBSERVE OR BE IN ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR.

[jopocop]

Call for Costa Concordia to be chained down

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/20/call-costa-concordia-chained-down?newsfeed=true

 

An Italian government minister has called for the marooned cruise ship Costa Concordia to be chained to the sea bed to stop it slipping into deep water as a British passenger said she would sue the owners after she lost her husband's ashes while abandoning ship.

 

Experts using sensors to monitor the movement of the vessel, which is lying on its side in 37 metres of water off the Tuscan island of Giglio, said it was shifting at a rate of about 7mm an hour.

 

Divers searching for missing passengers were due to be allowed back on board the ship on Saturday after being evacuated for the third time on Friday when sensors picked up movement from the vessel. If the wreck moves 30 metres offshore it will fall into depths of 70 metres.

 

Eleven passengers are known to have died after the captain, Francesco Schettino, steered the 114,000-tonne vessel carrying more than 4,200 passengers and crew into a rocky outcrop on 13 January while attempting to "salute" a Giglio resident.

 

Schettino, who then grounded the ship and went ashore while 300 passengers were still on board, is currently under house arrest, accused of manslaughter, causing a shipwreck and abandoning ship. Eleven people are known to have died.

 

A miniature robot submarine was in action on Friday under the ship's hull, checking the stability of the ship, which is lodged on three granite outcrops. They are searching for places the ship could be anchored after Italy's environment minister, Corrado Clini, asked the liner's owner, Costa Crociere, to draw up a plan for tying the ship down to prevent it slipping into the deeper water.

 

Luca Cari, a spokesman for divers from Italy's fire service, said the robot had used its pincer arms to pick up two suitcases found on the sea bed.

 

Clini has warned that approaching bad weather may shunt the ship out to sea, where its fuel tanks could rupture, creating an oil slick.

 

Divers have said they will continue their search effort until they find all 21 passengers still unaccounted for, although Dutch salvage workers are gathering in the port of Giglio to start drilling into the ship's fuel tanks to extract 2,400 tonnes of fuel.

 

The shipwreck could yet see the largest insurance payout of any maritime disaster, said Antonio Coviello, an insurance expert at the University of Naples.

 

As passengers who escaped from the listing vessel prepared legal action against Costa Crociere, one British passenger said she was suing after losing the ashes of her late husband during the evacuation.

 

Sandra Rodgers, 62, said she had been planning to scatter the ashes of her husband, Barry, when the cruise reached Monaco because he had dreamed of seeing the Monaco Grand Prix.

 

"It's dreadful but his ashes were lost on board the Concordia as well as other family heirlooms from my late mother and father," she said.

 

Rodgers said the evacuation was completely chaotic: "There was certainly no 'women and children first' policy. It was disgusting.

 

"We were also told by crew that we should go back to our cabin. Thank God we didn't do as they had told us as we may not have made it off the ship alive."

 

Newly released video footage taken on board after the ship collided with rocks shows a female member of the crew telling passengers wearing lifejackets: "On behalf of the captain, kindly go back to your cabins." She adds: "We have solved the problem, which was an electrical problem ... All is under control."

 

Schettino's lawyer said on Friday the captain was "ready to take responsibility" for his actions and denied allegations he had freely drunk red wine shortly before taking the helm on the night of the collision.

 

Schettino said he had kept officials at Costa Crociere informed of the ship's plight, a claim rejected on Friday by the chief executive, Pier Luigi Foschi, who said lives would have been saved if the ship had been abandoned faster.

 

Foschi denied the firm encouraged Schettino to delay abandoning ship for about an hour after the collision for fear that payouts to passengers would be triggered.

 

"I can assure you absolutely that no one was thinking in financial terms, which would have been in contravention of our code of ethics," he told Corriere della Sera.

 

Foschi said the firm has suspended Schettino and would not pay his legal fees.

 

"He may have the odd little character problem, although nothing has ever been reported formally.

 

"He was seen as being a little hard on his colleagues. He liked to be in the limelight."

 

On the quayside at Giglio on Friday, police formed human chains to keep camera crews away from relatives of some of the 21 missing passengers as they climbed on board a coastguard launch to throw flowers into the sea beside the Costa Concordia.

[Uniall]

Originally Posted by Davyjonesrugrat

The industry now has to come up with a method of restoring the faith in the Captains for its fare paying passengers.

 

I agree... I suspect that we'll see some of the cruise lines running advertising which showcases their crew's experience, expertise, etc. Something along the lines of "I'm Captain Bill and your family's safety and security is my #1 priority!"

 

I think a good start would be all cruise ships adopting and publisizing a Zero Tolerance of Alcohol consumption for ALL Officers during the entire length of each contract (on ship or land). NCL already has this in place but doesn't publicize it. I don't know what other lines have the same code.

[yankeechick78]

What time did he admit to the coast guard that he was on a life boat? What time did the last life boat leave the ship? Case closed. I wish these people would stop coming out and defending him. They sound like idiots.

[rubrrick]

Did you see my earlier post (#3333) where I provided links to other articles describing the Concordia propulsion system ...

 

 

I did, Cruizer2, which is why I have asked to to take one more look when you get home tonight at the 2011 version of both the Concordia and Splendor.

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

[frediver]

In the most recent posts ( pst 8-10pages) I have seen 2 different course tracks posted. One off shore of the two smaller rock islands and one between the 2 "rock" islands, it is confusing.

 

On Panic:

You can only predict that it will happen, not who among the officers or crew will be affected. Among the passengers you can count on a percentage panicking every time.

The crew should be (is) trained to a higher level than the passengers in order to control the eventual panic that will occur.

There is no way to simulate a real ship sinking, more boat drills might help the crew but likely not for the passengers.

The capt. Panicked this time, he might not have in the past or might not in the future. The future does not matter for this Capt., this situation but that is how panic works.

The best thing passengers can do it to think before "stuff" happens, What will I do, Where will I go, What can I keep in my pockets that might help. That"s about it. You can't count on being able to get back to your cabin, what you have in your pockets or purse are all you will likely ever have in a real Emergency. Panic Will Happen, if not to you, to someone close by. As has been said a small Flashlight will help so will a small Swiss Army knife. Light for light ( waterproof is nice) and perhaps you can pop a lock with the knife blade if needed. OR

you could cut a dangling nylon strap that people are tripping on OR cut the bread and cheese you brought with you as you left the dinning room. A credit card, Ships card, a bit of cash, ID from home as Minimum. All of these Wallet/Purse items are likely already waterproof, if not they need to be made waterproof.

You do not need to pack a shipboard survival kit but you will find that having these few items will help in many daily activities as well as aid in a survival situation should one Ever occur.

[greg-nc]

What time did he admit to the coast guard that he was on a life boat? What time did the last life boat leave the ship? Case closed. I wish these people would stop coming out and defending him. They sound like idiots.

 

Actually at the time he was talking with the coast guard commander and claiming to be in a lifeboat he was already onshore on a reef - This is according to the criminal indictment from the Italian court.

 

http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/2012/traduzione_ordinanza_grosseto.pdf

 

"he remained on the reef to watch the disaster caused, was reached by members of the Fire Brigade and was in touch by phone with Commander De Falco, who ordered him to go back aboard the ship."

[deckofficer]

I have learned a lot on this forum, as I have never been on a cruise ship. One item of interest to me that I picked up from JJSMaine's post of the gCaptain's narration was the use of thrusters to assist in the crippled ship's final "controlled" turn. All ships that I have served on did not have thrusters and our top side emergency generator was typically around the size of a 8V92 Detroit Diesel, which could produce < 250 Kw for emergency lights, rudder, and nav electronics (which also have battery back-up). Speak up if you know this, but I would assume a single thruster for a ship this size would be at least a 500 hp electric motor. This one thruster alone would require a emergency generator of over twice the size I had, plus you have a lot more lighting and other systems.

 

What is the size of the emergency generator aboard a cruise ship such as this one?

[Uniall]

In the most recent posts ( pst 8-10pages) I have seen 2 different course tracks posted. One off shore of the two smaller rock islands and one between the 2 "rock" islands, it is confusing.

 

On Panic:

You can only predict that it will happen, not who among the officers or crew will be affected. Among the passengers you can count on a percentage panicking every time.

The crew should be (is) trained to a higher level than the passengers in order to control the eventual panic that will occur.

There is no way to simulate a real ship sinking, more boat drills might help the crew but likely not for the passengers.

The capt. Panicked this time, he might not have in the past or might not in the future. The future does not matter for this Capt., this situation but that is how panic works.

The best thing passengers can do it to think before "stuff" happens, What will I do, Where will I go, What can I keep in my pockets that might help. That"s about it. You can't count on being able to get back to your cabin, what you have in your pockets or purse are all you will likely ever have in a real Emergency. Panic Will Happen, if not to you, to someone close by. As has been said a small Flashlight will help so will a small Swiss Army knife. Light for light ( waterproof is nice) and perhaps you can pop a lock with the knife blade if needed. OR

you could cut a dangling nylon strap that people are tripping on OR cut the bread and cheese you brought with you as you left the dinning room. A credit card, Ships card, a bit of cash, ID from home as Minimum. All of these Wallet/Purse items are likely already waterproof, if not they need to be made waterproof.

You do not need to pack a shipboard survival kit but you will find that having these few items will help in many daily activities as well as aid in a survival situation should one Ever occur.

 

I agree with everything you mentioned. There is one item not mentioned, perhaps because it's politically incorrect. I speak of the "It's all about me" people. A few years ago, they were seen wearing Tee Shirts with that motto.

 

They will push, shove, elbow, and punch their way to the front of the line and life boats. This will be to the detriment of childen, seniors, and handicapped. Hopefully, there are still enough able bodied male passengers willing to defend & protect those unable to defend & protect themselves.

[EVALUATOR]

Apparently it isn't hard to find something with more courage than the Concordia craptain...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/snapshots-1320966603-slideshow/#crsl=%252Fphotos%252Fsnapshots-1320966603-slideshow%252Fsnapshots012012-photo-1327083377.html

[mferris77]

I have learned a lot on this forum, as I have never been on a cruise ship. One item of interest to me that I picked up from JJSMaine's post of the gCaptain's narration was the use of thrusters to assist in the crippled ship's final "controlled" turn. All ships that I have served on did not have thrusters and our top side emergency generator was typically around the size of a 8V92 Detroit Diesel, which could produce < 250 Kw for emergency lights, rudder, and nav electronics (which also have battery back-up). Speak up if you know this, but I would assume a single thruster for a ship this size would be at least a 500 hp electric motor. This one thruster alone would require a emergency generator of over twice the size I had, plus you have a lot more lighting and other systems.

 

What is the size of the emergency generator aboard a cruise ship such as this one?

 

I'm far from expert but I know they have referred to a topside emergency generator called the "Donald Duck" generator. Someone in the gCaptain page's comments also mentioned the disconnect between ability to use thrusters and the power outage. Perhaps the turning was achieved simply due to the wind and current (wind was blowing in the direction where they ultimately ended up).

[IRL_Joanie]

I agree with everything you mentioned. There is one item not mentioned, perhaps because it's politically incorrect. I speak of the "It's all about me" people. A few years ago, they were seen wearing Tee Shirts with that motto.

 

They will push, shove, elbow, and punch their way to the front of the line and life boats. This will be to the detriment of childen, seniors, and handicapped. Hopefully, there are still enough able bodied male passengers willing to defend & protect those unable to defend & protect themselves.

 

Believe me, these thoughtless idiots are still around:( I have been spending the majority of the last 6 days oin this thread because of the information coming through it and also because for the most part everyone has been extremely civil and thoughtful of one another.

 

UNFORTUNATELY, my normal Holland America Board has not been quite as thoughtful in their considerations of who should be placed (get into) the lifeboats first.... Here is the link to the thread I am speaking of "Women and Children Still First?" http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1549794

 

Granted, I have not read the thread in the last 3 days as I was just so disgusted by quite a few of the posters comments, so some of the more obnoxious (in my reading of them) posts might have been removed....I would hope so... But there were a number of fellow Cruise Critic Members who had/have the "I GO FIRST, YOU FEND FOR YOURSELF attitude":(

 

Joanie