Costa Concordia SINKING

[tofubeast]

This article on CNN implies that they are still in rescue mode, and it has not (yet) been deemed a recovery mission. Another person earlier on here (a few pages back) stated they had heard news reports saying it was now a recovery.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/21/world/europe/italy-cruise-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[Milaandra]

Also would you really expect anyone to search for you on board during an abandon ship emergency, existing ship ID cards will do just fine. Also consider that the transponders will not broadcast properly underwater. If you are still alive and trapped in a compartment the the best option will be to bang anything hard against something else hard. Sound carries a very long distance underwater, you can bet the SAR people have microphones deployed listening for trapped passengers.

 

If people are alive to knock. But wouldn't something like that, if it worked underwater, help with recovery operations and therefore make things safer for the divers?

[Uniall]

According to her during her TV interview with her home city/country, she stated that there were 12 Russians aboard the ship. This was, I believe the day after the accident.

 

Joanie

 

It seems to me there is another untruth here. Domnica Cemortan says

"When the lights went out, a senior officer told me to follow him to the bridge. He said they needed help with the Russian passengers and Russian is my second language."

Yet witnesses have said the Captain, Cemortan and the Maitre D' left together after dinner to go to the bridge.

 

 

 

I agree. The only thing we have really learned so far is that a Captain's "friend" is called a ship squeeze. :rolleyes:

 

I just found this video. Don't recall having seen it on here before.

 

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/46077692/#46077692

 

 

Domnica Cemortan's comments could be a prompt for Disney to do an update of the movie "Peter Pan". The "Bad Guy" could be modernized and named: Captain Hook-Up :p

[astrocruises]

The ship's doctor, whom passengers had reported was one of the only officers evident during the evacuation, had this to say:

 

"“I’d only known Capt Schettino for a little while. I know he’s a good sailor but the sea doesn’t forgive the arrogance of man.”

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029644/Costa-Concordia-ships-doctor-describes-chaotic-scenes-as-liner-keeled-over.html

[Michigan Cookies]

It is a bit overwhelming... especially for the families of the still missing.

 

 

While I appreciate those who say this incident doesn't dent their enthusiasm, I will have to reserve judgement... and that will be based on how Costa and the Industry reacts to the situation.

 

I feel horrible for the crew who were put in an untenable situation . .. they likely could FEEL something big was wrong... and after an hour plus of floating around scuttle, had to have gotten around to some degree... people sometimes "just know" and that is because on an instinctual level we know when people are lying.. so when a crew member does their duty and tells people that "everything is OK" when it is obviously not OK, and you can tell the person telling you doesn't even believe it... a very unfair position for the crew to be in.

 

So .. in the future... when something goes wrong, will I be fed a load of happy talk, or will I get respect as a human being and be told the truth. We can see the effect of trying to kid glove the ship with the "electrical failure" announcements, which while not a lie, was certainly way way short of the real situation of having a boulder imbedded in the ship.. ( vent vent..)

 

 

I think.. for the sake of the families that will need closure. The facts need to come out as soon as possible... it will be quite unfair for this all to drag on for months or years... they have suffered enough... here we are gossiping about some Russian woman (myself included.. i read it too).. this truly feels like one of those crashing dreams, but we didn't wake up.

JJ, as usual, I agree with you. My reaction to the CEO's letter to future Costa travels is more 'blah, blah'.

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20120118/NEWS06/301180021

 

Attached link is to a Free Press (Detroit) article re a Michigan couple who survived the tragedy and returned home 2 days later still in their cruise clothes. From another article about this couple we learned that he is a doctor and he and his wife have done several cruises as part of the medical crew. He also gave one radio interview, in tears. Since then they have been, understandably, quiet.

[Uniall]

Sorry but I feel that Zero tolerance is not the way to go, most mariners, I cant say all, control their consumption of alcohol. In this case the Captain is reported to have had a drink but does it relate to the accident or just that the Captain navigated the ship too close to the foreshore.

 

I dont drink 12 hrs before my duties, but its my choice and not one forced upon me. I appreciate the seriousness of my work and the repercussions of my actions regarding the lives of others.

 

No, I feel that companies need to monitor their ships to ensure that they are not doing unsafe navigational moves, through AIS monitoring is possible and if it is show that they have acted irresponsibly then they can be pulled up by their companies. If the company is found not to have acted upon information received then through their audits the Governments Safety agency can pounce upon them. Quick, cheap and very effective action that could almost be implemented now and one that would, in my view, reassure passengers.

 

Rgds

 

:)

 

As an Irish-American I enjoy my adult beverages as much as anyone.

 

But when it comes to ship's officers and ship's operational crew (including any emergency drill personnel) I respectfully disagree with you.

 

One thing emergency situations demonstrate is there is no such thing as "on duty" and "off duty". In my opinion, anyone who may be called upon to operate the ship in an emergency is "on duty" 24/7 and should not be allowed to consume alcohol on board.

 

Norwegian Cruise Lines has adopted this rule and, as a frequent guest, I feel safer becasue of it.

 

John

[NormanW]

What's that and how does it work?

 

It's a wrist watch, mostly a conversation piece amongst pilots and sailors alike with a nifty feature that could be used in case the "unthinkable" should happen. Many critics will argue that it's not a proper EPIRB transmitting on the now standard 406MHz band (which this is true) however when you're caught "with your pants down" in one of those situations where you look at using anything...it just may be your only option. Just as a wristwatch I believe it has proper "geek appeal" alongside the Ball Engineer Hydrocarbon Trieste Chronograph. ;)

 

I have lots of torches (flashlights) with SOS "beacon" options. Those do get attention but one must remember that the battery life on those is limited to a few hours continuous at best. (on anything that you would be carrying in your pocket!)

 

RFID chips on sign and sail cards will likely be implemented not necessarily to be used for evac/emergency use but to see who goes where and when. Mainly for dining and entertainment stuff, etc. It can also be used for easier access to your living quarters. No more fussy magnetic strips to get zapped by magnetic latches on cell phone cases, etc. Those catches employ super powerful neodymium magnets whose field can scramble a magnetic strip into Gaussian oblivion from over 10 centimeters' distance! When that happens you get the red light on entry and have to visit the purser's desk for replacement!

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[Uniall]

Phew for a minute I thought you were going to say you were related to 'Capone'

 

No, not at all. In fact just the opposite.

 

With St. Valentine's day approaching, I'm reminded that my father used to say the Valentine's day massacre was Capone's way of eliminating the Irish boot legger competition, many of whom were my Dad's boyhood pals.....;)

 

(I realize this reply crosses the big, thick, and bright line of "on topic", as applied on this thread. But, I'm a believer that every discussion needs a little jesting and inter personal humor to make it a fun read and get to know a little about your fellow posters. If that offends anyone, I'm sorry)

 

John

[Uniall]

Greta VanSusteren reported on the legal aspects of the rights of the passenger with a legal team on Fox News. It was reported that when the cruiser signs the agreement at check in, you waive your rights to file suit if you have a prob. on the cruise, and only required compensation from cruise line from possible damage or loss to your belongings is only $150.

 

I haven't looked at that cruise agreement in some time; could those two factors still be in place? even with Costa & Carnival?

 

If the Captain was derelict in his duteis, intentionally went off course on a "wave by" lark of his own, ws inebriated, busy partying with a woman, etc and the company approved of it (actually or tacitly) it could throw the liablity restrictions out the wiindow. It could also invalidate any insurance contracts. That's one reason why the cruise line would want to put as much distance between themselves and the Captain.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

There didn't seem to be any coordinated organized effort by local authorities to aid in the evacuation. The passenger accounts all agreed that there was no authority on board directing the rescue. This accident took place within 30 or so miles from Rome and not in the middle of the ocean.

This is a ship ! Local authorities do not have any obligation to go on board a vessel and 'take control'. Control onboard for the disembarkation of passengers whether by emergency or not is the full responsibility of the ship and its crews. One ashore local authorities can assist the other emergency services (Fire / police / ambulance / Coastguard) by providing facilties that ensure the safety of the passengers until such time as they can be removed from the scene (To hospital/hotels/staging areas)

 

This is how evacuations are dealt with in the UK.

 

For example. A small passenger boat with 200 pax onboard is disabled and the passengers are transferred ashore. The passengers are landed at one point, they are accounted for and then transferred to a local recreational hall until such time as hotel accommodation is made available. As passengers are landed ashore they would be crossed of the ships list to ensure that every one is accounted for

 

Hope you understand now how the system works

 

regards

:)

[Thoie]

I saw the following

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16575409

Where Rose Metcalf, part of the entertainment crew, speaks of her experience. At one point she talks of getting directions via ????inaudible

 

"As crew we have signals that come to us on the tannoy system, codewords that let us know what's going on".

 

Tannoy, like hoover, is a brand name that has become a genericised trademark - in Britain and Ireland it's used interchangeably with "public address system".

[QM1]

According to the CEO of Costa the "Concordia" is a total loss. He admitted that in an interview published in Germany today.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

As an Irish-American I enjoy my adult beverages as much as anyone.

 

But when it comes to ship's officers and ship's operational crew (including any emergency drill personnel) I respectfully disagree with you.

 

One thing emergency situations demonstrate is there is no such thing as "on duty" and "off duty". In my opinion, anyone who may be called upon to operate the ship in an emergency is "on duty" 24/7 and should not be allowed to consume alcohol on board.

 

Norwegian Cruise Lines has adopted this rule and, as a frequent guest, I feel safer becasue of it.

 

John

So the Royal Navy and other Navies have it wrong with the fact that they allow their crews to drink, this is a ship of war and they might have to use these weapons in anger !!!

 

Zero tolerance is not the way forward, Cruise lines amongst other shipping companies allocate a daily consumption allowance.

 

As a mariner of 30 plus years I have no problem that an officer on the helm has a drink after his watch, knowing that when he comes back on watch the officer being relieved by him will know if he is drunk or not. If there is any doubt he has an obligation to raise his concerns immediately to the Captain.

 

No, a zero tolerance is not the way to go, its just a knee jerk reaction to this situation, just because this Captain is believed to have been seen with a young female (Not yet proved).

 

Rgds

 

:)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

As an Irish-American I enjoy my adult beverages as much as anyone

Im a hairy a$$ed Scotsman but dont know what that has to do with it lol

 

rgds

:)

[julieanne]

Absolutely agree that the liability restrictions are out the window now. My heart goes out to the people who suffered through this, lives lost and to the family and friends of those still missing. This is the first news feed I saw when I turned on my computer on Friday the 13th, so eerie. The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the Captain and his senior officers. IMO, he was entrusted with the safety of the vessel, passengers and crew in that order. If the vessel is not safe, lives are compromised. I am willing to wait for data as to regards of equipment/electrical failure and give the Captain every benefit of doubt. However, in retrospect, it appears he didn't really "know" the area as well as he thought he did and with all the state of the art equipment available, of course this accident shouldn't have occurred. It appears he knew the hull had been compromised almost immediately and should have requested assistance and ordered everyone to abandon ship immediately. I have some nagging doubts as to the veracity of the story that Costa had no idea he had changed course. It will be interesting to see the final analysis. I think what I really would like to put forth is how appalling some of the comments have been across the internet and even to fellow members. My thoughts and prayers are with those still missing and through some miracle may they find those passengers alive.

[Uniall]

This is a ship ! Local authorities do not have any obligation to go on board a vessel and 'take control'. Control onboard for the disembarkation of passengers whether by emergency or not is the full responsibility of the ship and its crews. One ashore local authorities can assist the other emergency services (Fire / police / ambulance / Coastguard) by providing facilties that ensure the safety of the passengers until such time as they can be removed from the scene (To hospital/hotels/staging areas)

 

This is how evacuations are dealt with in the UK.

 

For example. A small passenger boat with 200 pax onboard is disabled and the passengers are transferred ashore. The passengers are landed at one point, they are accounted for and then transferred to a local recreational hall until such time as hotel accommodation is made available. As passengers are landed ashore they would be crossed of the ships list to ensure that every one is accounted for

 

Hope you understand now how the system works

 

regards

:)

 

I'm not familiar with Italian Maritime and Port Authority Law, but the Italian Coast Guard Officer's radio communication with Captain Hook-Up seemed to imply that once an SOS had issued and it was within the territorial and/or port authority waters, the Italian Coast Guard takes control of everything.

 

My Maritime Law studies are 40+ years out of date and a lot has changed since then. But several colleagues of mine have said if a ship was inside US waters and just outside of a US port and abandon ship was commenced, the Coast Guard and Port Athority could take control if they thought it necessary.

[JJSMaine]

The lesson I have learned is to NEVER go to my cabin if I am sensing an emergency, even if told to. I will go stand near lifeboats or at the highest point on the ship.

 

But will the industry agree?

 

It seems to me that being in your cabin, in this scenario, was definitely NOT the right thing to tell guests and I hope that in future events where there is hull rupture the first thing that is done is to get the people off the ship... period.. If stability is not an issue, then by all means get them out of the way and not tripping over each other.. but when there is a hole in the ship, there is no need to keep them on board... sigh... I wish I could put myself inside the decision making process for those few hours, and see if anyone was pushing for the abandon ship call..... it just seems totally illogical... even if it turned out "OK", why take the chance of having passengers on board if something bad developed out of the situation.

 

I want to know *why* the lifeboats were not launched ? .... that's about it for me.... why? IF face saving comes into it in anyway, I kind of hope that Italy has the death penalty.. ego has no place on any cruise ship I am goign to ever travel on again.

 

I need assurances that the Captain can NEVER EVER again do something stupid because his crew has FEAR...

 

..we went through this from the 747 Tobago crash... why is it we let MEN with such egos lead and control our lives.. why do we put them on such pedestals... why, when we know they can have these tendecies do we not look for them and make sure that our "captains" will not choose the wrong path?

 

 

I also feel it is not yet time to be "cheer leading " the industry.... I know that is part and parcel of the operation of this site, but while we all love our vacation pastime industry, I think we owe it to those that are no longer able to cruise to make sure we never ever let the industry forget what happened and how it happened. We, the passengers, seemed to have been on the bottom of the priority pile that night and the only people that seems to have stepped up to the plate were the Town's Mayor, the Purser, the Coast Guard captain and all the little people that helped, including the crew and townspeople and CG personnel... but in all this there are no stories of the other senior crew doing ANYTHING.. and this is not just a condemnation of the Captain but of the 2nd and 3rd officers.... let us now sweep this under the rug.. it is one of the worst dereliction of duties I think I am aware of...

 

oh,,, and good morning.

[rubrrick]

Rick, Concordia, and her sisterships do have stern thrusters. They're built into her keel. In conjunction with the bow thrusters, they can walk the ship sideways. Azipods are a completely different beast. They are the main propulsion for the ship, but are rotatable to provide steerage and act as very powerful thrusters.

 

Thanks for my oversight! I'm used to having Azipods do the work, and now that I look back, I can remember being on a ship that did have stern thrusters.

 

I sorta jumped from traditional style propulsion systerm, that were manauvered by tugs, to bow thrusters to help, than to bow and stern thrusters, before azipods came along.

 

Rick

[Uniall]

So the Royal Navy and other Navies have it wrong with the fact that they allow their crews to drink, this is a ship of war and they might have to use these weapons in anger !!!

 

Zero tolerance is not the way forward, Cruise lines amongst other shipping companies allocate a daily consumption allowance.

 

As a mariner of 30 plus years I have no problem that an officer on the helm has a drink after his watch, knowing that when he comes back on watch the officer being relieved by him will know if he is drunk or not. If there is any doubt he has an obligation to raise his concerns immediately to the Captain.

 

No, a zero tolerance is not the way to go, its just a knee jerk reaction to this situation, just because this Captain is believed to have been seen with a young female (Not yet proved).

 

Rgds

 

:)

 

There may or may not be a proper correlation between a Naval ship and a Passenger ship. While I don't think naval officers should be drinking when the ship is at sea, it doesn't represent a potential danger to passengers in an emergency.

 

This is not a knee jerk reation at all. At least one cruise line (Norwegian) has had an alcohol zero tolerance rule for ship's officers in place for a long time.

 

John

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I have seen a few posts on here regarding methods of location passengers using technology.

 

Within the Search and Rescue field we have various methods of locating, Emergency position indicating radio beacons (epirb), plb (personal locator beacons) AIS, SART, the list goes on.

 

The distress beacons used to use various freqencies, 121.5, 243, 406 but over time these have been reduced to the 406mhz. The 243 was primarily the distress for military aircraft and 121.5 was also used as the homing signal.

 

PLB's are still used nowadays, along with other similar systems, that advise us of the locations of individuals. These are primarily used by pleasure industry (Sailors of yachts) If for example a crewman falls overboard an alarm onboard activates immediately to warn other crewmembers.

 

SARTS and EPIRBS are located on some lifeboats this allows pin point accuracy to be made in locating the units.

 

With what is being suggested by some members for a method of tracking people onboard a cruise ship entails something along this line. Now the system is not going to have to tell you exactly what deck they are on, but where on that deck, you now have a ship the size of the Concordia with 3500 people onboard how are you going to manage it. There is no financially available method that exists at present that would allow this type of thing to work, one that might have to work without electricity.

 

Rgds

 

:)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

There may or may not be a proper correlation between a Naval ship and a Passenger ship. While I don't think naval officers should be drinking when the ship is at sea, it doesn't represent a potential danger to passengers in an emergency.

 

This is not a knee jerk reation at all. At least one cruise line (Norwegian) has had an alcohol zero tolerance rule for ship's officers in place for a long time.

 

John

Excuse me while I point this missle at that ship !!!

 

Any officer in charge of a ship is being tarred with this same brush

 

 

rgds

 

:)

[Uniall]

Excuse me while I point this missle at that ship !!!

 

Any officer in charge of a ship is being tarred with this same brush

 

rgds

 

:)

 

Davie

 

Try to take yourself out of the shoes of a ship's officer/crewmember and put yourself in the shoes of pasengers.

 

Then, allow me to respectfully ask: why do you think Norwegian already has a no alcohol rule in place?

 

John

[dwaynesworld]

But will the industry agree?

 

 

I want to know *why* the lifeboats were not launched ? .... that's about it for me.... why? IF face saving comes into it in anyway, I kind of hope that Italy has the death penalty.. ego has no place on any cruise ship I am goign to ever travel on again.

 

 

while I think the Captain should be jailed forever for this, what I'm wondering about the boats aslo is this: was Schettino faced with a choice of EITHER grounding close to shore OR launching the boats? in other words, could the boats not be launched while he swung the ship around and beached it? if he took the boat to deeper water and launched the boats could this have been worse if the ship capsized?

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I'm not familiar with Italian Maritime and Port Authority Law, but the Italian Coast Guard Officer's radio communication with Captain Hook-Up seemed to imply that once an SOS had issued and it was within the territorial and/or port authority waters, the Italian Coast Guard takes control of everything.

 

My Maritime Law studies are 40+ years out of date and a lot has changed since then. But several colleagues of mine have said if a ship was inside US waters and just outside of a US port and abandon ship was commenced, the Coast Guard and Port Athority could take control if they thought it necessary.

Under UK law an abandoned vessel comes under the Receiever of wrecks. Though the Captain has abandoned the vessel the Insurance companies still have a legal charge on it.

 

The point being made was that of local authorities not of the emergency services. As a Search and Rescue mission co-ordinator am aware that putting more people onboard a sinking ship is dangerous as you are also putting them into danger. This also affects the running tote of numbers onboard, I would believe that the present rescuers are using this type of system at present for those searching the ship for missing persons just to ensure that eveyone going on is also coming off.

 

rgds

:)

[Silverado6x6]

I have seen a few posts on here regarding methods of location passengers using technology.

 

Within the Search and Rescue field we have various methods of locating, Emergency position indicating radio beacons (epirb), plb (personal locator beacons) AIS, SART, the list goes on.

 

The distress beacons used to use various freqencies, 121.5, 243, 406 but over time these have been reduced to the 406mhz. The 243 was primarily the distress for military aircraft and 121.5 was also used as the homing signal.

 

PLB's are still used nowadays, along with other similar systems, that advise us of the locations of individuals. These are primarily used by pleasure industry (Sailors of yachts) If for example a crewman falls overboard an alarm onboard activates immediately to warn other crewmembers.

 

SARTS and EPIRBS are located on some lifeboats this allows pin point accuracy to be made in locating the units.

 

With what is being suggested by some members for a method of tracking people onboard a cruise ship entails something along this line. Now the system is not going to have to tell you exactly what deck they are on, but where on that deck, you now have a ship the size of the Concordia with 3500 people onboard how are you going to manage it. There is no financially available method that exists at present that would allow this type of thing to work, one that might have to work without electricity.

 

Rgds

 

:)

 

 

With all due respect the technology exists, its the simplified mass production and integration that has yet to be addressed. It was only in the last two or so years we have even seen highly efficient tablets, smartphones, I personally own two Kindle Touch tablets with over 100 books stored on each one, they connect by 3G, they can actually give me a map or a book in less than ten seconds, and are affordable.

 

Look at it like this, the ship issues its version of a smartphone but its an in house system, it announces events, docking times, muster calls etc, plus a personal identifier.

 

You will get charged for it if lost or not returned when you disembark.

 

Think of it as the e-ships pursor. Sorry if the future approaches too fast, at my age I even have problems with it:D