Costa Concordia SINKING

[JJSMaine]

I hope I qualified the post, it was a few back, "What has happened to journalism?" I agree I am still seeing other cruiseship youtube video as content in articles such as the UK Sun. I am just putting what is out there

 

Try to remember that .. well.. large corporations will do many things to affect public opinion. One of those is to inject dubious and false information into the data stream. This has the effect of casting doubt on all data released in a similar way.

 

I am not accusing them of doing so, but it would not surprise me to hear that actions taken were not in the best interest of the investigation. Media is a tool and sometimes we do not know who is using the tool and who is benefiting form that use. I think the media is ginving us afr more truth than we would have otherwise, but there is also likely false information being injected on purpose, for many reasons.. to sell prepares and to deflect scrutiny.

 

I fear there is a dirty underbelly to all this that involves the corporate office, and if this turns out to be true, then I will no longer have any trust in the cruise industry.

 

We all need to understand that there is an enormous amount at stake with this situation. While it is true that the industry is very safe with an astounding record considering the staggering volume of passengers they handle annually, it is also just as true that it takes very very little mess it all up, as evidence by this incident.. failing to yield right of way to an Island.

[Silverado6x6]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57363289/costa-concordia-black-box-found/

 

The ships hard drive and bridge camera data has been recovered.

[UMDCruiseProf]

If you're going to invent a nifty electronic device, I'd like to see a "homing" signal in the card. Then by looking at a screen, someone could see where stragglers were for rescue or recovery.

 

Actually the technology for a card/"seapass" based tracking system is not terribly far off. Current high-end passive radio frequency identification [RFID] tags (those that are commonly found in your shoes, clothing, etc.) are approaching transmission distances of close to 3 meters (under the right conditions - key words there). They are waterproof and darn near indestructible (guess what? I have the tools to read the tags in your clothing and shoes. Bet you didn't know your clothes and shoes were "talking"!). Over the next few years we should see RFID technologies built into a typical passenger seapass card matched with ship based transceivers. Essentially... the ship could locate passengers just like Nordstrom employees find specific shoes: via RFID location. Right down to a few feet.

 

A cheaper way to do this might be to add some of the more high priced facial feature recognition systems to the existing on-board security camera network. Current top-of-the-line systems have been used to scan the faces of all 100,000+ Super Bowl attendees and are in near universal use in airports. The system could conceivably be used in an emergency to report on the last place on-board a passenger was "seen".

 

Ultimately, I think the RFID solution will be the one we see long term. RFID technologies are moving ahead by leaps and bounds... and a seapass card is the one thing that a passenger carries the most while on a cruise (or maybe built into a card holder/lanyard). One day the bridge will have a display with a glowing dot showing where each passenger is... or is that too creepy for the cruising public?

[UMDCruiseProf]

It would seem that even if sign & sail cards had RFID tags embedded in them, this would be helpful in an evacuation situation.

 

The problem is that the current crop of passive RFID tags just don't have the range required. Now if you go with an active (battery powered) tag that solves the problem... but then everyone has to carry something like an EZPass box around. Clunky....

[Davyjonesrugrat]

:D

Davie

 

Try to take yourself out of the shoes of a ship's officer/crewmember and put yourself in the shoes of pasengers.

 

Then, allow me to respectfully ask: why do you think Norwegian already has a no alcohol rule in place?

 

John

I should imagine its to remove themselves from possible litigation. I cant speak for the actions of NCL but at the bottom line its all about money isnt it

 

Its good to have constructive discussion lol....A Irish yank and a Hairy a$$ed Scotsman discussing drink lol

 

Think we will need to 'beg to differ' on this John :D:D

[Hebersgyll]

When Schettino ran the Concordia aground, at about 15 knots, he hit the reef with such force the ship broke off that enormous granite boulder now carried in the ship's side. So it must have been quite an impact. I wonder if any people ashore either heard the noise of the collision or felt a vibration? .... and whether the impact might have been strong enough to register on a seismograph? I guess, being Italy, on an earthquake zone, there will be a fairly dense network of seismographs

[Uniall]

Under UK law an abandoned vessel comes under the Receiever of wrecks. Though the Captain has abandoned the vessel the Insurance companies still have a legal charge on it.

 

The point being made was that of local authorities not of the emergency services. As a Search and Rescue mission co-ordinator am aware that putting more people onboard a sinking ship is dangerous as you are also putting them into danger. This also affects the running tote of numbers onboard, I would believe that the present rescuers are using this type of system at present for those searching the ship for missing persons just to ensure that eveyone going on is also coming off.

 

rgds

:)

 

We may not be disagreeing with each other but merely looking at opposite sides of the same coin. First, I think the legal reality depends on the national law of the port if the ship is inside the territorial waters.

 

US law allows (but does not require) the US Coast Guard (now the naval arm of the Dept of Homeland Security) to take direct control of the ship's evacuation, once an abandon ship has been ordered and/or a request for assistance has issued. They also have the authority (but need not exercise it) to take control of any remaining ship navigation to protect the harbor and port egress.

 

Based upon the reported radio communiques, I suspect Italy has a similar legal set up.

[Silverado6x6]

Try to remember that .. well.. large corporations will do many things to affect public opinion. One of those is to inject dubious and false information into the data stream. This has the effect of casting doubt on all data released in a similar way.

 

I am not accusing them of doing so, but it would not surprise me to hear that actions taken were not in the best interest of the investigation. Media is a tool and sometimes we do not know who is using the tool and who is benefiting form that use. I think the media is ginving us afr more truth than we would have otherwise, but there is also likely false information being injected on purpose, for many reasons.. to sell prepares and to deflect scrutiny.

 

I fear there is a dirty underbelly to all this that involves the corporate office, and if this turns out to be true, then I will no longer have any trust in the cruise industry.

 

We all need to understand that there is an enormous amount at stake with this situation. While it is true that the industry is very safe with an astounding record considering the staggering volume of passengers they handle annually, it is also just as true that it takes very very little mess it all up, as evidence by this incident.. failing to yield right of way to an Island.

 

 

Its a pretty darn competitive market and as I have seen if the opportunity arises one cruise line will open up another quicker than a walmart inner tube on a coral head.

 

I remember when there was one of those mass shootings years ago at a MCDonalds, did they spackle over the bullet holes? Nope they tore it down, bulldozed it clean and built another elsewhere and put faith in short memory consumerism.

 

Who benefits from a disaster of this magnitude? Well I doubt its some cheesy MSM mogul like a bad James Bond movie. But I would love to theorize a novel to situated a competitive cruise line that finds a way to control the captain or to fool him into thinking his vessel was in a safe position.

[GioRaf]

The Scuba divers had found another body of a dead woman

 

So sad

[Davyjonesrugrat]

while I think the Captain should be jailed forever for this, what I'm wondering about the boats aslo is this: was Schettino faced with a choice of EITHER grounding close to shore OR launching the boats? in other words, could the boats not be launched while he swung the ship around and beached it? if he took the boat to deeper water and launched the boats could this have been worse if the ship capsized?

My view is that there appeared to be no one taking charge for declaring 'Abandon ship' as he was ashore and only he can order it.

 

The master mariner cum chicken turned on this one !!!

 

What few officers remained onboard did appear to be attempting to do something to resolve the problem even the young officer Bosio on the bridge who we have also called the 2nd Captain.

 

rgds

:)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

With all due respect the technology exists, its the simplified mass production and integration that has yet to be addressed. It was only in the last two or so years we have even seen highly efficient tablets, smartphones, I personally own two Kindle Touch tablets with over 100 books stored on each one, they connect by 3G, they can actually give me a map or a book in less than ten seconds, and are affordable.

 

Look at it like this, the ship issues its version of a smartphone but its an in house system, it announces events, docking times, muster calls etc, plus a personal identifier.

 

You will get charged for it if lost or not returned when you disembark.

 

Think of it as the e-ships pursor. Sorry if the future approaches too fast, at my age I even have problems with it:D

As a fare paying passenger will my cruise cost go up? Yep think this will cost millions to run. I am as much up on technology too, even at 53 I have a smart phone and and Ipad. The system used on RCI and I believe NCL is in the cards, you swipe it as required. The problem arises when there is no electricity to let the system do what its supposed to do.....

 

rgds:)

[baldercash]

Here is a link to a very good graphic of what transpired, looks like the Captain was very lucky to be able to ground the ship the way he did.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/graphic-the-final-moments-of-the-costa-concordia/

[JJSMaine]

let us now sweep this under the rug.. it is one of the worst dereliction of duties I think I am aware of...

 

 

NOT,,,,, let us NOT sweep... didn;t get back to the edit in time,

[ScarboroughCruiser]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57363289/costa-concordia-black-box-found/

 

The ships hard drive and bridge camera data has been recovered.

 

As more and more information is collected and a clearer picture emerges, I will be most interested in the story behind the command structure of the Concordia during and after the crash. One bad apple is one thing...but a whole basket? Questions to be answered include:

1. Regardless of the failings of this particular Captain, what role and responsibilities did each of the senior officers have in an emergency? Reports of the absence of ANY bridge officer (outside of a "junior" officer, a doctor and a purser) during the height of the evacuation are highly troubling. Why is an "off-duty" Captain front and center in the evacuation? (Thank goodness for that though).

2. To what extent are any issues with the command structure created and/or permitted by the culture within Costa management? That is, how can we the sailing public have confidence that our safety is most important to Costa and that the officer crew of the Concordia is atypical rather than typical of Costa ships?

3. How will Costa change its management practices in assessing the ongoing worthiness of its Captains and other Senior Officers?

4. How will Carnival, the holding company assure that whatever may be wrong with Costa management is not leaking over to how its other cruiselines are operated?

[Davyjonesrugrat]

We may not be disagreeing with each other but merely looking at opposite sides of the same coin. First, I think the legal reality depends on the national law of the port if the ship is inside the territorial waters.

 

US law allows (but does not require) the US Coast Guard (now the naval arm of the Dept of Homeland Security) to take direct control of the ship's evacuation, once an abandon ship has been ordered and/or a request for assistance has issued. They also have the authority (but need not exercise it) to take control of any remaining ship navigation to protect the harbor and port egress.

 

Based upon the reported radio communiques, I suspect Italy has a similar legal set up.

Much the same as the UK or any rescue authority but the point being made was that of the local authority (Council/ municipality, county halls or town councils)

 

In the UK the Coastguard take full co-ordination of all Safety of life, removing them from danger etc and they are passed over to the police for ticking off the list who are assisted by other authorities that take care of them until they are able to be repatriated onwards. When the aspect of life saving is completed its then a case of clearing up the mess, ie salvaging the boat and any pollution aspects.

 

To ensure that there is no piracy the derelict comes under the ownership of the receiver of wreck until such time as it is removed. This is primarily done to stop people going onboard and taking equipment from the boat. I believe the old charters still stands that I can pull out my trusty cutless and stop anyone from stealing from a boat without any repercussions lol

 

SAR/Salvage/pollution is a vast area to get to know and also understand, as you say, technology is advancing, when I started it was still a Mayday for the master of a boat and pan pan for anyone else, it was SOS in morse code (Still read 20 wpm) and 5 ton was a frequency most knew about. Thankfully things have moved on but with technology there are inherint dangers, look at how much bother we now have with drivers and their tomtoms taking them to a middle of a field lol

 

rgds

 

:)

[JJSMaine]

As a fare paying passenger will my cruise cost go up? Yep think this will cost millions to run.

 

 

... boy is this a end rub.... it is likely that instead of the industry paying for this out of their profits, you and I will pay for it.... rather than stockholders taking a hit, which they will, you are likely correct that it will be future passengers that will pay for all of this, through insurance increase and fare increases.

 

HOWEVER... while I would not be willing to pay more to cover the costs of this incident, I would be willing to pay more to have my Captain and senior officers and staff go through intensive crisis management experiences. I would pay more to know that the entire ship staff is trained better.

 

I might even pay more to know that when the fertilizer hits the ventilator, I will be treated with respect and not like cattle.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

1. Regardless of the failings of this particular Captain, what role and responsibilities did each of the senior officers have in an emergency? Reports of the absence of ANY bridge officer (outside of a "junior" officer, a doctor and a purser) during the height of the evacuation are highly troubling. Why is an "off-duty" Captain front and center in the evacuation? (Thank goodness for that though).

Hopefully with the information now coming to light all those officer who were negligent in their duty to both the passengers and the rescue services will no longer be able to work in the Maritime industry. Their cards should be marked 'Concordia Coward' I would like to think that those mentioned previously on this site, Bosio, the doctor, the purser etc will be honoured in some form for their part.

 

rgds

:)

[cubella59]

I saw on CNN that they took a hair sample

 

I can confirm (according from what i had read on newspapesr and heard on TV news) that this test was done by the police under order of the persecutor.

[JJSMaine]

Here is a link to a very good graphic of what transpired, looks like the Captain was very lucky to be able to ground the ship the way he did.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/graphic-the-final-moments-of-the-costa-concordia/

 

 

No one was lucky.

 

Lucky would have been everyone on shore, alive, while the ship continued to flounder....

 

Lucky was previous times they did a fly by and missed the rock.

 

Lucky would have been missing your flight and not being able to board the ship earlier that day....

 

.. those that lived were very fortunate, that given the actions of the ships leadership that they got off and survived...

 

.. .would you describe those that died as unlucky? then the survivors are not the opposite..

 

(please do not take this as a personal attack baldercash... I am just reacting to the concept of "lucky" not you ... thnx .. I feel we need to guard against softening the position we take in reaction to this incident... I do not think we should minimalism what has happened.)

[astrocruises]

Regardless of the failings of this particular Captain, what role and responsibilities did each of the senior officers have in an emergency? Reports of the absence of ANY bridge officer (outside of a "junior" officer, a doctor and a purser) during the height of the evacuation are highly troubling. Why is an "off-duty" Captain front and center in the evacuation? (Thank goodness for that though).

 

I know this doesn't address the issue of officers on the bridge at the time, but in an article today the doctor (Sandro Cinquini) says other officers were helping with the evacuation.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029644/Costa-Concordia-ships-doctor-describes-chaotic-scenes-as-liner-keeled-over.html

 

The doctor dismissed reports from many passengers that no officers were to be seen in the evacuation effort and that women, children and the elderly were left to fend for themselves.

“The officers were taken by surprise in their cabins and were wearing civilian clothes. People weren’t able to distinguish them from the passengers. They were not wearing their uniforms, but they were there"

[Feelin' Nauti']

More than 100 passengers who were aboard the Italian cruise ship Costa Concordia say they're joining a class-action lawsuit seeking more than $15 million with Proner & Proner.

Each of the passengers would seek at least $154,660, with some planning to seek 10 times that amount, from Costa Cruises, the BBC reported. The passengers will seek compensation for medical care, loss of earnings and the psychological effects of the evacuation.

 

 

[luckybogey]

Graphic per National Post News (Assumes ship has rudder control and power to all thrusters).

[ScarboroughCruiser]

I know this doesn't address the issue of officers on the bridge at the time, but in an article today the doctor (Sandro Cinquini) says other officers were helping with the evacuation.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029644/Costa-Concordia-ships-doctor-describes-chaotic-scenes-as-liner-keeled-over.html

 

The doctor dismissed reports from many passengers that no officers were to be seen in the evacuation effort and that women, children and the elderly were left to fend for themselves.

“The officers were taken by surprise in their cabins and were wearing civilian clothes. People weren’t able to distinguish them from the passengers. They were not wearing their uniforms, but they were there"

 

This brave doctor will be able to identify some of the officer that were helping. Each officer will be giving a statement about their roles that night to the authorities (and to Costa) and the doctor will be able to collaborate some of that. I still can't wrap my mind around the report that the Captain and his next TWO Command officers were in his early escape boat!

[Iwilder]

I have a really stupid question, but it's been haunting me since this whole thing began. On such a large ship, with so many souls on board, is there adequate standing room on the decks for all the people? I mean on the open air decks. It seems the return to your cabin (perhaps 5 or 6 decks down) was almost an invitation to die. Many of the pictures I see seem to be of people in lifejackets waiting below deck for something...as I recall all my lifeboat drills have been on the open deck. I know that if I am on a boat of any size and there is a problem the worst place to be is below.

[mudscraper]

I have a really stupid question, but it's been haunting me since this whole thing began. On such a large ship, with so many souls on board, is there adequate standing room on the decks for all the people? I mean on the open air decks. It seems the return to your cabin (perhaps 5 or 6 decks down) was almost an invitation to die. Many of the pictures I see seem to be of people in lifejackets waiting below deck for something...as I recall all my lifeboat drills have been on the open deck. I know that if I am on a boat of any size and there is a problem the worst place to be is below.

HAL conducts their presail muster drill outside on the LP and all passengers fit nicely with room to spare.