Costa Concordia SINKING

[Daisyloo]

I have learned a lot about the cruise industry on the CC forum, and has been for the most part an enjoyable experience. I'm sorry for getting off on the wrong foot, my mistake, but it looks like every time I post now, there are too many "red triangle" clicks for the mods and admin to ignore, and I'm hanging by a thread from being banned. I don't want that to happen so will just read for awhile and enjoy further learning about this industry.

 

Thanks All ~ Happy Cruising

 

I think you got off to a bad start because of misunderstanding/misinterpretation, and unfortunately some people are not willing to accept your apologies. I feel you have added positive input to this thread and shouldn't be made to feel unwelcome.

Pat

[Uniall]

I agree 100%. There are far too many people on here filling in gaps where there is a shortage of information.

 

Why can't people just wait for the full story to evolve?

 

Speculation of all possible scenarios is necessary to carry out a thorough and proper investigation.

 

In a perfect world, you could leave the speculation up to the official investigators. But, in the real world, public speculation and public pressure is the best way to keep the investigators honest.

 

Costa Cruises is pulling out all the stops. There was a soldiarity rally today by their employees outside the company HQ. Italian investigations have a long history of bowing to public pressure.

 

John

PS

As each day goes by, Costa cruises has more time to doctor records in their control and spin the truth.

[Charles4515]

I commented a few days ago that I would not be surprised if Carnival re-brand Costa however, I'm now becoming more convinced that the Carnival name will also disappear both from Carnival Cruise Line and Carnival Corporation.

 

It's not enough that we, on this forum, know the difference between these brands and, know that the possibility of this happening again is virtually impossible. But the public at large will associate both names with this tragedy and they must do everything/anything to protect their business

 

I won't make any predictions but both Carnival and Costa are well established long time brands. I think they can protect their business by making real changes to their culture and convincing the public that they have done such.

[Milaandra]

I read and reread the article and it indicates that Domnica was not on the ships manifest and she had been a former employee but not on this cruise. Later in the week, Costa Cruises changed it's report and said she had purchased a ticket to stay on board and her mother now says they bought the ticket.

 

No, it says that Costa said she was a former employee and had bought a ticket. It says Costa couldn't confirm or deny that she was on the bridge.

 

Where are you seeing an indication that she wasn't on the manifest?

[greg-nc]

I would like to think that families won't have to worry about the cost because Costa will pick up the tab. Whether that is an accurate "assumption" remains to be seen.

 

 

 

Seeing the reports on how Costa is trying to get the families of the deceased and missing in Italy to sign paperwork that they will not sue in order to get any help from Costa - I would not hold my breath waiting for Costa to pick up the tab.

 

So far most of the financial assistance to families of the deceased and missing have been via the Italian government, other governments, travel insurance, and other private parties - but not a dime from Costa.

 

Costa is clearly in CYA mode and taking every step possible to limit their financial liability - without giving a hoot about helping the survivors or families of the deceased.

 

P.S. - The survivors have been offered 30% off on their next Costa cruise as compensation.

[HelloHelloHola]

I believe that there will be changes. Carnival can't afford not to make changes. I don't think it will be smoke and mirrors because this was a major disaster for not only the passengers and crew but for Carnival's business. They can't afford to lose 500 million dollar ships even as big as a the corporation is.

 

Agreed. Of course, given that it is still in the very early stages, we are allow to make final judgement at a later time. However, I don't think it is smoke and mirrors.

 

I do believe that since safety has become such an important component these days in a workplace and public place. It is time for cruise lines to review its safety procedures regardless of this incident. However, given what happened, what better time to roll it out.

 

Carnival Corp. has capitalized on its own mishap (I know, it is Costa) as an opportunity to raise its safety standards. Other cruise lines are most likely going to follow suit, if not one-up on Carnival Corp. in order to gain market shares.

 

Regardless, the cruising public will be the main beneficiary.

[Milaandra]

Micki

 

I wonder how most people would deal with the problem?

 

 

Burn me up as soon as possible and throw me back in. Looks like a pretty spot.

[astrocruises]

But the spectacular sight of the Costa Concordia rammed up against one of its rocky bays has led to a sudden spike in visitors.

On the Saturday before the accident, just 131 tourists disembarked from ferries. A week on, that figure was more than 1,000.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9030910/Costa-Concordia-stricken-cruise-ship-becomes-tourist-spectacle.html

 

This on a weekend after the accident -- how many tourists were on the island at 9:30 the night before, at the time of the "salute"? How many tourists and residents on the island were expecting it? How many passengers on the ship?

 

Going by published reports, the only people who have admitted knowing about the "salute" in advance were the headwaiter on the ship, his father and sister shore (plus those alerted by her Facebook post half an hour before), and the captain's former superior officer who was not even on the island. We can presume (hope) the officers on the bridge knew where the ship was, and speculate that an officer's blond traveling companion may also have known in advance.

 

It doesn't lend much credence to the captain's claim that Costa officials insisted on the publicity of such a maneuver.

[sfwriter]

Hard to say whether she "drove off with a friend" to do some shopping vs. leave her husband, but speaking for myself...I could never stay married to a man who had displayed such a fundamental level of disloyalty. (And I am not talking here about the accusations that he was involved with another woman.)

 

I could stay married to someone who'd accidentally killed people -- it happens. I could not, however, stay married to someone who'd shown such wanton disregard for human life after the fact and who didn't limit casualties by showing leadership. Plus there's the issue of not having an income, and not being likely to have an income -- all because of his actions.

 

Compared to that, an affair is nothing.

[Milaandra]

Boats came over immediately... but it was a good 15-20 minutes for the tugs.

 

Thanks! That gives me a good indication of modern response times.

[luckybogey]

Here is a very good English translation of the full transcript of the Court Magistrate's decision:

 

Much appreciated. Based on the Repubblica articles and the transcript, I assume the VDR's recording of "bridge communications" was not functioning however the actual "data" may have been preserved. The maintenance logs should also verify this missing piece of info. I also find interesting the no mention of "thrusters". I still trying to figure out exactly when and were the starboard anchor was dropped.

[Hebersgyll]

So Giglio will be a future Costa excursion? Could be a real money maker for Carnival....

 

Q. So what's special about a Costa Cruise Line excursion?

Ans. You don't have to book... and the ship comes with you!

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Another issue for the Cruise Industry to deal with is having real time live monitoring of the bridge from a command center. With current technology, a home base command center watches the bridge and all of the controls and discussions and stats and readings. They watch the TV monitors on the ship, and the TV camera pointing out to sea.

 

Had there been a command center real time monitoring of this ship, then, the home base command center issues warnings to the bridge about dangers and inappropriate headings, or speeds, and things of that sort.

 

Now that cruise ships are 4000 people and going higher by design, then, it makes more economic scale of sense to set up 24-7 live monitoring of the ship and using all of the available current technology for the welfare of the ship and passengers.

 

Even the idea of a black box is antiquated, on planes and ships, since, all of those data entries can be sent live to a command center for storage.

 

Each plane in the sky can send the same data to a control tower or company command center that is being sent to a so called black box.

 

Sure, keep the black boxes, but, also have live real time transmission of data to the command center.

 

The bottom line, the cruise industry really need to catch up with technology and think of more ways to prevent a disaster of this type and others that are within the realm of human imagination and vision.

Hint: The Command Centre on a ship is called a bridge !!!!! All command decisions are made there !!..

 

If using your system they see something they believe is 'abnormal' happening on the bridge what are they going to do, overrule the Officer of the watch ? Hope I never sail on a ship like that !

 

rgds

:)

[Leadft]

I won't make any predictions but both Carnival and Costa are well established long time brands. I think they can protect their business by making real changes to their culture and convincing the public that they have done such.

 

I agree. I work in corporate communications. Carnival will NOT change their brand name. Carnival has enough brand equity to outweigh the temporary damage done. The public has a VERY short memory. Think of it this way -- Tylenol did not change its brand name after people died from tampering/poisoning. Airlines do not change their names after a plane crash. Jack In The Box did not change its name after the e-Coli outbreak that killed people.

 

They all hired communications professionals to repair the brand image.

 

Watch for Carnival to do lots of corporate philanthropy, feel-good contests and very public safety reviews/announced changes. They will survive this.

[Cuizer2]

That is my point. If you can pick out ten years I can pick out one year or one day. If you go back thru Carnival's history there have been a bunch of mishaps. Starting with the maiden voyage of it's first ship which was run aground. Then there have been several fires including the one on Carnival Splendour.

 

To quote a recent TV program (which was not kind to Carnival) Cruising is still safer than crossing the street.

 

Picking on one incident on one day to use as a brush for an entire industry is simply not fair. Also, I'm not picking out just any old ten years, I am referring to the last ten years.

 

If you want to refer to the last day, then how many people died as a result of a Costa ship accident yesterday? None. Thus it must be safe. This analysis makes as much sense as yours, since I am using the same amount of data (one day) as you are, and my data is more resent than yours, thus more relevant.

 

Cruising is safer than driving your car. Do you drive?

[jopocop]

With all due respect, are you one of the senior citizens that are just comfy with the status quo when modern technology can improve safety for you and your family?

 

I am not advocating that a HQ land based command center commandeer operations, no more than I would advocate a control tower taking charge of the plane's cockpit.

 

I am advocating that the command center takes a more pro active role in monitoring the bridge and actions of the bridge, including stats on board. I am advocating that they validate that all is normal and issue safety recommendations or equivalents.

 

I also advocate that black boxes are essentially antiquated relics from a by gone era. All planes and ships can be sending black box type of data to the home base command center in real time. The black box concept is still okay to keep on planes and ships, but, nowadays, they can be supplemented with transmissions of data and communications back to a black box at the command center for example.

 

It is inevitable that you will not get your way, as technology marches on and someday my suggestions will occur. That is the evolution of technology.

[Cuizer2]

With all due respect, are you one of the senior citizens that are just comfy with the status quo when modern technology can improve safety for you and your family?

 

I am not advocating that a HQ land based command center commandeer operations, no more than I would advocate a control tower taking charge of the plane's cockpit.

 

I am advocating that the command center takes a more pro active role in monitoring the bridge and actions of the bridge, including stats on board. I am advocating that they validate that all is normal and issue safety recommendations or equivalents.

 

I also advocate that black boxes are essentially antiquated relics from a by gone era. All planes and ships can be sending black box type of data to the home base command center in real time. The black box concept is still okay to keep on planes and ships, but, nowadays, they can be supplemented with transmissions of data and communications back to a black box at the command center for example.

 

It is inevitable that you will not get your way, as technology marches on and someday my suggestions will occur. That is the evolution of technology.

 

Are you responding to me? :confused:

[Davyjonesrugrat]

When will the Italian authorities place a warning buoy out on Le Scole Rocks given what happened?

 

Sure, the whole marine world now knows about these rocks to stay clear of them, but, it seems that those rocks where deserving of a buoy anyway given how they extend fairly out from the shore.

 

In fact, maybe this is a wake up call for more surveys along well travel areas that have potential under water dangers where they insert more buoys.

 

That Le Scole rocks seem such a hazzard, even for smaller craft that come in that area from the mainland.

Even better, lets put a 1nm safety zone off the whole coastline and then we wouldnt have problems of 'sail-bys'

 

rgds

:)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

That mentality needs to be changed.

Do you question your chief of police, your 3 star general, your Fire Chief, your wife?

 

You start changing that and you will have no command structure. I still maintain a 2nd Capt, one slightly sub-ordinate but able to take over if necessary might be more successful a course of action.

 

rgds

:)

[bigwalt0176]

A short video showing underwater footage of Costa Concordia including a peak into a balcony stateroom and her propellers

 

 

http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/utrikes/article14250705.ab

 

This video shows the incredibly slow speed and complexity of the rescue efforts which is not a fault of the divers. It is just amazing with the amount debris that is floating within the cabins. I am just wondering how long the rescue operation will last given the possibility of finding someone alive vs recovery of the ship and the potential for an ecological disaster.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

It's one thing to have a "Captain's word is law" philosophy if you are out to sea with no ability to communicate outside the ship. But those days are long past. If you can ring up the office in Miami for a few pointers on how to cover your fanny (and theirs) after slamming your ship into an island, there's no reason your senior Officers can't speak freely to you about how you might avoid the mess altogether.

Command structure would fall apart, can you imagine it

 

Capt: Starboard 10

Crew: Starboard 10, eh no I dont think youre right, I want a second opinion, im going to phone Miami for verification.....

 

Come on folks, the problem is ensuring that these sail by's dont happen or other navigational errors of judgement. AIS already allows this facility of watching watch shipping is doing its a case of putting in legislation to enforce the companies to be accountable for unsafe navigational practices, this could be brought in in a matter of weeks not years too. The system is here now, we are using it, its a case of getting companies to review this information on a weekly or cruise long basis and if its found that the ship has done unsafe navigation then they can call the Captain to boot.

 

It does not remove decisons from the Captain, but ensures that the Captain is maintaining safe navigation for both the Ship and its passengers/crew

 

rgds

:)

[Uniall]

Originally Posted By: Milaandra

No, it says that Costa said she was a former employee and had bought a ticket. It says Costa couldn't confirm or deny that she was on the bridge.

 

Where are you seeing an indication that she wasn't on the manifest?

 

They consider the 25-year-old Moldovan blonde to be a ‘key witness’....

Miss Cemortan, who has a two-year-old daughter, had worked as a translator for the Concordia but was on holiday on the ship at the time of Friday night’s disaster.

A grainy photograph was taken of her on the bridge.

It is thought she might be able to shed light on Schettino’s decision to sail close to Giglio to perform a ‘salute’ for a former crew member and for the ship’s head waiter.

Miss Cemortan and Schettino were seen wining and dining together 30 minutes before the disaster.

One passenger, Angelo Fabri, said: ‘The captain was in a dark jacket and he was sat in front of the woman – she was quite young and at first I thought it might have been his daughter. She was slim, had blonde hair to her shoulders and was wearing a black dress with her arms uncovered. They were laughing and in high spirits. He said the captain was drinking wine – a claim that contradicts Schettino’s assertion that he stayed off alcohol.

 

 

A source for operator Costa Cruises said: The woman who appears to have dined with Schettino was a Costa employee who had been hired to assist Russian passengers.

She was due to disembark from the Costa Concordia before it began its seven-day cruise of the Mediterranean but she bought a ticket and stayed onboard.

We cannot confirm or deny that she was on the bridge. To be honest, nobody quite knows what Schettino was up to.

In an interview with Moldovan newspaper Adevarul, Miss Cemortan admitted being on the bridge on Friday evening and added that ‘he (Schettino) was there’.

Italian newspapers yesterday claimed Schettino has admitted being with Miss Cemortan at the time and that she was not on the official passenger manifest.

Her mother Vera, who lives with her in the Moldovan capital Chisinau, said the seven-day cruise was a birthday present.

Yesterday Miss Cemortan defended Schettino: I know that some of my colleagues should be upset because they are out of work now and they have debts and have kids waiting for them but we are all in agreement that the captain did something exceptional and saved 3,000 lives.

[fin]

Hi Guys

 

I thought I'd repost the Original Post that started this great thread Entitled "Costa Concordia SINKING", to discuss what is "On Topic".

 

I'm concerned with the expressed belief by some posters that items considered "On Topic" should be narrowly construed. Even taking into account that my primary Cruise Critic activity has been on Roll Calls, I believe some of the "On Topic" police have had a negative impact on Cruise Critic's underlying concept of amiable and amicable "Community." :eek:

 

It might be best to take 2 steps back and consider the following:

1. The Topic Post is:

"Costa Concordia SINKING"

2. Journalism Schools, world wide, teach that reporting story involves: Who, What, When, Why, and How.

3. People's individual writing styles differ: technical, humorous, sarcastic, serious, allegorical, factual, hypothetical, etc., etc.

It might be a good idea for everyone to take a more tolerant view of the different ways in which different people approach, explain or discuss a topic, especially a topic dealing with a tragedy. An emotionally charged topic, like this, causes different people to react differently: laugh, cry, anger, fear, intelectualize, etc. :)

 

I hope we can remember that we are all members of the Cruise Critic Community and should treat each other will good will and respect. I think that includes defining "On Topic" broadly to make allowances for different personalities, points of view, backgrounds, writing styles and the way each of us confronts a tragedy.

 

I'll put my soap box away now and prepare another of my famous (infamous) posts in my "gallows humor" style. :o

 

With Goodwill,

John

 

Well said. The self-important posturing of quite a few 'cruisers' in response to the postings of someone well qualified to give meaningful information on the subject is one of the reasons why I have been very quiet on cc in recent months. Some of the evil remarks have made me ashamed to be a member of cc. One was so ugly I reported it.

[LuvBNatC]

Yes, thanks for that translation, but google translations are always so terrible. I wish we could get a good translation of the court testimony. From what I can make out here are some interesting points:

 

 

4. Schettino refers to Roberto Bosio as his second in command. I also noted that the Court Magistrate in her decision referred to Roberto Bosio as the second in command. However, Bosio gave an interview in which he stated he is the Captain of the Serena and was just hitching a ride home. Maybe there is some maritime law or Costa policy that if another off duty captain is onboard during an emergency he automatically becomes second in command? Anyone know?

 

In the first reports of Schettino being arrested, they took him AND HIS FIRST OFFICER into custody. Yet there seems to have been no further mention of that first officer. Does anybody know what his status is? Is he sitting in a jail cell, forgotten? Remember, he was allegedly in the lifeboat with Schettino.

 

There's never been any mention of Bosio being arrested, only that he was a hero who took charge and started getting passengers off the ship before Schettino gave the order to abandon. He even gave an interview describing that scene. So it would appear he couldn't possibly have been Schettino's right-hand man.

 

Also, someone asked where the story about Schettino "tripping" into a lifeboat originated. I believe it came from the captain himself in the story he gave the judge when he appeared in court on Tuesday.

 

I've been following this thread (and all the wonderful links to international press - thank you!) closely.

[King of Cool]

Milaandra to King of Cool

Did you see the Lloyd's List information?

Yes M, plus the excellent reconstruction by John Konrads.

 

To Moderator – if you read and digest all posts would you please ask your editor to re-check the statement in your front page story under Ship's Course Under Investigation:

 

“In August 2010, a similar maneuver off Giglio's coast earned Schettino a letter of thanks from the island's mayor. Foschi said that particular sail-by, timed in conjunction with Giglio's patron saint day, was pre-authorized by Costa and local maritime authorities. Plus, the ship stayed at least 500 meters (1,625 feet) from the coast, said Foschi.”

 

No-one on this board, who are very well informed, can confirm the source of that allegation.

 

I would hate Cruise Critic, which I consider to be one of the best information forums on the internet of any category, to be publishing misinformation.