Costa Concordia SINKING

[Charles4515]

The same can be said for two shuttle disasters:

 

Columbia - Feb 1, 2003

Challenger - Jan 28, 1986

 

Both of these spaceships were being monitored by the best of the best, and they still had problems. Human error can be limited, but no eliminated.

 

Besides - what happens when the person in the home office is the rouge that screws up???

 

That is what happened with John Glenn's Mercury flight ...

 

 

 

So, when the experts cannot agree and the proper course of action, who should make the final call?

 

You are comparing spaceships to cruise ships? That is something else entirely.

[Cuizer2]

What scheme? Were you born an air traffic controller? You were trained to do the job.

 

Do you realize you are telling an experienced controller that he doesn't know what he is talking about? What qualifications do you have to question the controller?

[MorganMars]

Ok will have a look later and get back to you, have you message number to save me trawling through the masses for it. ......Its been a long night lol

 

rgds

:)

 

 

Definitely been a long night and tomorrow is going to be an even longer day if I don't get off these boards. I posted screenshots of the anchors (definitely two different ones) at message #4253.

 

Night all,

MorganMars

[Cuizer2]

I never said I had 4 cruises. I have done 40 cruises. I think I have a right to cruise safely. It does not take an shipping industry expert to see that there needs to be a change in the cruise industry culture.

 

Your experts have not explained why a ship should not have a control system. Air has control system. Railroads have a control system.

 

As I said no human is infallible. That is why teamwork is the solution. Not relying on the Captain as god.

 

There has to be an ultimate authority. There is not always time to put multiple courses of action to a vote. As far as I am concerned I would rather have someone on the ship make the final decision, not someone thousands of miles away who has no first hand knowledge of what is happening.

 

In addition, air traffic controllers do not control the airplane. They simply tell it where to go. And sometimes they end up telling the pilot to go straight into another airplane.

 

NO SYSTEM IS FOOL PROOF.

 

Your forty cruises as a passenger may make you an expert on cruising as a passenger, but it sure doesn't qualify you to decide who should control the ship.

[HelloHelloHola]

There has to be an ultimate authority. There is not always time to put multiple courses of action to a vote. As far as I am concerned I would rather have someone on the ship make the final decision, not someone thousands of miles away who has no first hand knowledge of what is happening.

 

In addition, air traffic controllers do not control the airplane. They simply tell it where to go. And sometimes they end up telling the pilot to go straight into another airplane.

 

NO SYSTEM IS FOOL PROOF.

 

Your forty cruises as a passenger may make you an expert on cruising as a passenger, but it sure doesn't qualify you to decide who should control the ship.

 

Yes, just like the decision to land or abort (go-around) is still up to the pilot flying the aircraft. Wait, maybe that needs to be changed?

[bobsig]

But my home could burn down. My home, driving, crossing the street and cruises should be as safe as humanly possible and technically possible. The argument that cruising is safer than x is a loser.

 

Making something as "safe as humanly possible" can be applied to just about everything but would you pay for it? Give me a $1 million and I'll build you a really, really safe car. You could build a house that won't burn but you didn't. You could take a cab to cross every street but you won't.

 

By the way - here's the Vessel Traffic System developed over the past 30 years to keep ships from colliding with each other at ports: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vessel_traffic_service Why is this system not employed worldwide? The cost would be insane and benefits slim to none.

 

Come on, cruise ships are not sinking everyday from diversions in course. There are many, many other areas of safety the the cruise industry could spend its money on that would be much more beneficial to its passengers than a worldwide control system.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Hang on. I think I've got screenshots to compare if I can upload them.

Looking at your second picture and picture number 29 they do appear to be the same type and standing in much the same order and compliment themselves. The first picture does appear to be different, the shank and the flukes do appear to be of a different style to the other two pictures. (Flukes are the bits that bite into the seabed, the shank is the part that connects the flukes to the cable (Middle long bit).

 

However to throw another query in, its is known that not all anchors are good for use in all seabed terrains, therefore they could have a different style on the opposite site to take this into consideration.

 

There does appear to be, as you rightly point out, an anomoly between them

 

rgds

:)

[Cuizer2]

But my home could burn down. My home, driving, crossing the street and cruises should be as safe as humanly possible and technically possible. The argument that cruising is safer than x is a loser.

 

Why is your home burning down? Are you not competent to keep it safe. I think there should be a neighborhood watch group with the authority to tell you what you can and cannot do inside your home.

 

There is no reason why your home should burn down. Clearly you are not competent to be a homeowner. It is my opinion that you should move out right now.

 

Obviously this is all said in jest. I am simply applying your logic to your ability as a homeowner that you are applying to all the captains of all ships. It makes as little sense for you has a homeowner as does your approach to cruise ship safety.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Definitely been a long night and tomorrow is going to be an even longer day if I don't get off these boards. I posted screenshots of the anchors (definitely two different ones) at message #4253.

 

Night all,

MorganMars

I got another long night tonight lol

 

rgds

:):)

[Cuizer2]

Of course not. Experience is an asset. But sometimes those with experience get into a routine and get complacent. That Concordia Captain had experience.....

 

So the inexperienced should be able to control the experienced? Do you not see where your logic is failing. These controllers you want to make the ultimate authority have been know to make big mistakes that result in lost lives also.

[Cuizer2]

You are comparing spaceships to cruise ships? That is something else entirely.

 

Are you saying that it is okay for a space to be ten seconds from disaster but not a cruise ship?

 

Are you saying the spaceship controllers are less capable than your cruise ship controllers?

[Ozcruiser1]

Oz

 

First, I never met an Aussie I didn't like. :)

 

Second, I've been know to buy two rounds back to back. :D

 

Third, I can get along with people who disagree with me very easily. Sharon Rae and I met as opposing candidates for Alderman in Chicago and we celebrate our 23 anniversay in April. :eek:

 

John

PS

My Dad used to say the only reason we weren't Australian was because his father saved enough money for the fare to America before the British came to arrest him. :rolleyes:

 

Cheers John,

I thought it would be good to have you guys as tables mates also. I just thought you would add some spice to the conversation.

 

PS Most if not all Aussies makes good table mates. :)

 

As it's going Daveyjonesrugrat and Charles may have trouble at a table for two.:)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Cheers John,

I thought it would be good to have you guys as tables mates also. I just thought you would add some spice to the conversation.

 

PS Most if not all Aussies makes good table mates. :)

 

As it's going Daveyjonesrugrat and Charles may have trouble at a table for two.:)

Nah wont be any trouble Charles has turned me to drink........Ach a scotsman with a drink in his hand what would you say about that lol............its got to be a dram or two lol....

 

 

rgds

:)

[bobsig]

Nah wont be any trouble Charles has turned me to drink........Ach a scotsman with a drink in his hand what would you say about that lol............its got to be a dram or two lol....

 

 

rgds

:)

 

 

Aye, Matey - I'm going for the vodka on the rocks me self....Charlie has shivered me timbers..

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Aye, Matey - I'm going for the vodka on the rocks me self....Charlie has shivered me timbers..

Your lucky I feel like ive been keel hauled and show the 'golden rivet'

 

rgds

:)

[degarr]

Just reporting what has happened, not condoning nor making light of it here.

FOR sale, one cruise ship - slight damage to right-hand hull, mainly cosmetic." This was the description that an Aussie used in his "joke" bid to sell the stricken Costa Concordia cruise ship on eBay, which has been pulled from the website.

With a starting price of $1, the seller warned of “some water damage to interior” of the ship and said the carpets may need to be replaced. It also stated the ship had one “careful owner” and must be collected by the buyer.

An eBay spokesperson said the ad, for which bidding reached $1008.88 with six days to go, was taken down as it was not appropriate for the website.

EBay does not permit listings that attempt to profit from human tragedy or suffering," the spokesperson said.

"As a result, we are immediately removing this listing from eBay.com.au.”

There was a warning on the listing stating it was “obviously a fake and should not be taken seriously”.

The disclaimer is perhaps in response to this question posted on the site:

“I notice that you haven't given the option for insurance with shipping. I've heard of a cruise ship accident in the news recently and it's got me a bit worried. Are there no circumstances under which you would insure the ship while shipping?”

To which the seller responded: “Ahh noo speek englishhh”.

There were a flood of questions about the ship, including one that asked whether the rock he heard the captain tripped on before falling into the lifeboat would be included. According to the seller, yes.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/australian-tries-to-sell-stricken-cruise-ship-costa-concordia-on-ebay/story-fn32891l-1226251134791

[Ozcruiser1]

G'Day Uniall,

Welcome to the table.....just one thing, if my wife is wearing a black dress and in good spirits she isn't there as an INAMORATA, even if we are cruising in Italy.... hope this would apply to every woman on a cruise ship even if Domnica was assigned to our table.

[astrocruises]

Asleep in his cabin at the back of Deck 3 when the Costa Concordia crashed, Andrea Carollo, leapt out of bed and dressed. By the time he opened his door water was already rushing down the corridor, and when he went to his post in the engine room the engines were beginning to flood.

“Within 15 minutes, the engine room told the bridge that there was nothing to be done,” he said. “The situation was beyond repair.”

He then reported to his muster point, a lifeboat for 35 crew members. “Unlike the captain, we were there until the end. We did all we could to avoid catastrophe,” he said.

Alberto Fiorito, 28, another engineer, said: “We didn’t wait for the captain to give the order to abandon ship. We saw how serious the situation was, and we did it ourselves.”

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029866/Costa-Concordia-the-inside-story-of-the-night-of-Friday-January-13.html

 

Despite the Captain's story about how he "fell in" to the lifeboat (sometimes described as a "launch") while helping other passengers (and apparently his first and second officers "fell into it," too), I have yet to see an account of a passenger who claims to have shared the lifeboat with the Captain.

 

What I want to know is: Where are these crew-only lifeboats kept?

[degarr]

I have yet to see an account of a passenger who claims to have shared the lifeboat with the Captain.

 

I thought there was an account really early after the event that described someone seeing the captain covered in a blanket in a lifeboat

[SomeBeach]

Grosseto - The minutes of questioning by officers "on the bridge" of the "Concordia" final document, if any were needed, that on the night of Friday, January 13 at least three truths can be acquired for definitive dates. First, the ship departed from Civitavecchia (as indeed the same said Schettino) knowing that they must "bow down" to the lily and the operation turned into a catastrophe in a command bridge reduced to domestic audience. Second, after the impact with granite island, there was no "brilliant maneuver" to get closer to the ground.

 

The ship, unmanageable, drifted from the north east and driven by the rotation imparted by the desperate emergency maneuver to avoid collision. The third: Schettino was immediately put in a position to understand the gravity of what had happened. And yet delayed for over an hour the order of "general emergency" before.

Di "evacuazione", poi.

 

Of "evacuation", then.

 

 

 

hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.repubblica.it/&ei=gv4cT6_kJ9Shtwe3xo2-Cw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEAQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dla%2Brepubblica%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7ACAW_enUS396US394%26prmd%3Dimvns

 

Sorry, the link isn't working. Go to La Repubblica if you'd like to read more.

[dingoboy]

Asleep in his cabin at the back of Deck 3 when the Costa Concordia crashed, Andrea Carollo, leapt out of bed and dressed. By the time he opened his door water was already rushing down the corridor, and when he went to his post in the engine room the engines were beginning to flood.

“Within 15 minutes, the engine room told the bridge that there was nothing to be done,” he said. “The situation was beyond repair.”

He then reported to his muster point, a lifeboat for 35 crew members. “Unlike the captain, we were there until the end. We did all we could to avoid catastrophe,” he said.

Alberto Fiorito, 28, another engineer, said: “We didn’t wait for the captain to give the order to abandon ship. We saw how serious the situation was, and we did it ourselves.”

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029866/Costa-Concordia-the-inside-story-of-the-night-of-Friday-January-13.html

 

Despite the Captain's story about how he "fell in" to the lifeboat (sometimes described as a "launch") while helping other passengers (and apparently his first and second officers "fell into it," too), I have yet to see an account of a passenger who claims to have shared the lifeboat with the Captain.

 

What I want to know is: Where are these crew-only lifeboats kept?

 

On many of the newer ships the crew are being allocated life rafts as opposed to life boats. I have recently cruised on Celebrity Eclipse and they have massive life rafts that hold 500 people. I have posted previously about them, To enter these new 'evacuation devices' as they are called they are inflated like evacuation slides on aircraft and then a very narrow and enclosed chute is needed so that crew can slide 6-8 decks straight down vertically into them.

 

They are very very scary things. I note that most of the mega ships like Oasis of the Seas and the new Celebrity ships all have these. I do not believe they were fitted to this ship. I will post a link to these new style rafts when I can find them.

 

The main advantage is that they free up deck space and views. This has massive cost advantages but in an emergency such as this one it would mean that there simply isn't enough room on outside decks to muster all passengers.

 

My other main concern is that these big ships have several of these massive rafts. Most, as far as I can tell allocated to crew. That's fine on a perfect night, in calm seas. But if this disaster was repeated on a mega ship fitted with new rafts and just one of them can't be launched, you instantly get a situation where 500 people have no any way to get off the ship. Multiply that by the loss of several of these rafts and you would quickly end up with several thousand people without a life raft/or boat.

 

I really think after this disaster the cruise companies are going to have to rethink 500 person rafts - as we have seen with Costa Concorda there is just too much can go wrong.

 

If this was Oasis of the seas we were talking about we could double all the numbers - and that means perhaps closer to 100 dead. But if any of the 500 person rafts couldn't have been used then it could easily be 1000s.

 

Is that acceptable? - I think not.

 

As for the captain, i think I have determined that he took a life boat with other officers from the Starboard side of the ship and headed to nearby rocks also on the starboard side of the ship.

 

I also think he might have been captured in a video by infa-red cameras from a coast guard helicopter: Link to video discussion:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1555297

[SomeBeach]

I thought there was an account really early after the event that described someone seeing the captain covered in a blanket in a lifeboat

 

It was a French couple (military or police professionals) and they just felt it wasn't right for him to be wrapped in a blanket in a lifeboat.

[dingoboy]

On many of the newer ships the crew are being allocated life rafts as opposed to life rafts. I have recently cruised on Celebrity Eclipse and they have massive life rafts that hold 500 people. I have posted previously about them, To enter these new 'evacuation devices' as they are called they are inflated like evacuation slides on aircraft and then a very narrow and enclosed chute is needed so that crew can slide 6-8 decks straight down vertically into them.

 

They are very very scary things. I note that most of the mega ships like Oasis of the Seas and the new Celebrity ships all have these. I do not believe they were fitted to this ship. I will post a link to these new style rafts when I can find them.

 

The main advantage is that they free up deck space and views. This has massive cost advantages but in an emergency such as this one it would mean that there simply isn't enough room on outside decks to muster all passengers.

 

My other main concern is that these big ships have several of these massive rafts. Most, as far as I can tell allocated to crew. That's fine on a perfect night, in calm seas. But if this disaster was repeated on a mega ships fitted with new rafts and just one of them can't be launched, you instantly get a situation where 500 people have no any way to get off the ship. Multiply that by the loss of several of these rafts and you would quickly end up with several thousand people without a life raft/or boat.

 

I really think after this disaster the cruises companies are going to have to rethink 500 person rafts - as we have seen with Costa Concorda there is just too much can go wrong.

 

If this was Oasis of the seas we were talking about we could double all the numbers - and that means perhaps closer to 100 dead. But if any of the 500 person rafts couldn't have been used then it could easily be 1000s.

 

Is that acceptable? - I think not.

 

As for the captain, i think I have determined that he took a life boat with other officers from the Starboard side of the ship and headed to nearby rocks also on the starboard side of the ship.

 

I also think he might have been captured in a video by infa-red cameras from a coast guard helicopter: Link to video discussion:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1555297

 

Link to discussion, video and images of 500 person evacuation devices: Q would you be happy to be go down one of these slides and be crammed in with 500 other people.

 

Yes I know it's an emergency and all bets are off, you want to get off the ship safely and fast BUT!!!! I think everyone deserves a life boat even the crew.

 

and besides in an emergency the chances of passengers ending up in a crew escape device is very high.

 

As passgeners we should all demand lifeboats for ALL on board, and not accept 500 person evacuation devices.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1549878

[SomeBeach]

Dingoboy, do you mean this thing?

[Uniall]

Nah wont be any trouble Charles has turned me to drink........Ach a scotsman with a drink in his hand what would you say about that lol............its got to be a dram or two lol....

 

 

rgds

:)

 

Make mine: 3 fingers of "The McCallum" neat. :D