Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4301 Share Posted January 23, 2012 This video Perhaps Start at 8.10 may be of interest to some. Shows footage, by one young couple, of the situation on board from the moment in the dining room to being safe on shore. Hope this adds something to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4302 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not sure anyone will believe that unless the black dress comes with a whimple. :D Wonderful !! Amidst all this tragedy, humour still has its place.:o The good thing about this forum is that there are contributors 24/7. It's now 11.20pm in Australia, not sure what time it is wherever others are located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durangler Posted January 23, 2012 #4303 Share Posted January 23, 2012 This is interesting. 14 minute video The thing I don't understand is if there was no power, how could the bow thrusters operate? Back up power? No mention of dropping anchor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4304 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh those tubes look dreadful and will cause a lot of impact injuries. And I think that guy said the F word when he landed so imagine someone older or younger. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It doesn look painful but we have to remember that they are falling on to liferaft thats on water so it might just be the shock of falling down the 'tube' device. If it hurt my 'pride' but saved my life Im all for it rgds :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KansasCityTBone Posted January 23, 2012 #4305 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess he "fell" into the lifeboat with his laptop and personal valuables? Laptop sought in Concordia case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4306 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That would explain why the lifeboat drill on my last Solstice-class ship took place in the muster station and not on deck. Could one of these rafts be put out of commission if someone with high heels goes down the slide (a Kevlar vest will stop a bullet but not a knife)? How about if anyone (very young, elderly, handicapped or obese person, for example) gets to the bottom of the slide and doesn't get out of the way in time for the next slider -- do they pile up at the exit like victims of a nightclub fire? I think if there's even a chance a regular passenger might be required to use this device during an emergency at sea that an instructional video should be shown at the muster drill and run continuously on one of the onboard TV channels. Its much the same as the aircraft one, take ones shoes off. Rgds :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4307 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It was a French couple (military or police professionals) and they just felt it wasn't right for him to be wrapped in a blanket in a lifeboat. I'd never recognize the officers of any of the ships I've been on. Without a white shirt and an authoritative walk, that is. I'm even bad with the insignia...even at the Cunard captain's party I couldn't identify "the big man" himself. I just smile and nod alot. I suppose it would be different if it was important to you. On the other hand, I walked within grabbing distance of Orlando Bloom when he was shooting a film in Central Park and we were well past before my husband told me and I looked back and actually recognized him. (And I think Orlando Bloom is way cooler than a sea captain :cool:) So maybe I just wander around in an unobservant haze all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4308 Share Posted January 23, 2012 and use the Internet to order food. No' in the wee seaside toon o' Dunbar, ye cannae! Here we have to take our lives in our hands crossing the road to the chippies, or around the corner to the kabab. :eek: (Sorry...off topic but we've only been in Scotland for a couple of months and I'm still adjusting :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4309 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Dingoboy, do you mean this thing? I'd rather take that than climb down a rope ladder or a net and then have to drop into the sea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milaandra Posted January 23, 2012 #4310 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess he "fell" into the lifeboat with his laptop and personal valuables? Laptop sought in Concordia case. Did you notice that now he's back in the hotel on the island? There aren't two stories in this whole mess that don't conflict with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4311 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'd never recognize the officers of any of the ships I've been on. Without a white shirt and an authoritative walk, that is. I'm even bad with the insignia...even at the Cunard captain's party I couldn't identify "the big man" himself. I just smile and nod alot........... I doubt that in the midst of a critical event one would be able to recognize another in a life boat with a blanket wrapped around them as a specific person unless they were your direct family or friend.. In critical events spatial awareness and time awareness is distorted. Passengers who survived the United 232 1989 plane crash in Sioux city did not realize that the plane was upside down when they released their seatbelt and had no recollection of it being so until they were show it on film. When you say "I just smile and nod alot" ... I too do that, ...when I'm at my mother-in-law's.:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMDCruiseProf Posted January 23, 2012 #4312 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Good luck selling this program to an industry that has had very few accidents that could have been prevented by this scheme. And that's the key point here.... 10,000,000+ passengers in 7-8 years and approximately 30 deaths. That's a spectacular safety record by anyone's standard. And there's something else that makes that even more impressive. A passenger is only on a plane for a few hours (on average), while a cruise passenger is under the auspices of the cruise company 24 hours a day - for multiple days! If I were to analyze passenger safety as compared to the number of hours/days spent aboard a vessel (and not just # of passengers who have been on a cruise) the safety record becomes even more impressive. So... IMO... albeit not a true expert, but one who has to study and teach on the industry... there is no safety issue in the cruise industry that requires much more than is currently being done, let alone some sort of agency to track and monitor the bridges of vessels. Tweak the systems to weed out buffoonery... but given the safety record of the industry... leave it mostly as is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uniall Posted January 23, 2012 #4313 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It was just my bad navigation. I stumbled on another forum on CC on evacuation procedures. It too is very interesting and most informative... As there are many many posters on this forum I thought I would add this to the discussion on this forum. If I am in breach of protocol, I apologise ... If I may quote from URBAN GARDENER first post "I have a simple request of all cruise companies: immediately adopt a fleet-wide policy that (i) forbids deceiving passengers in emergency situations, even if intended to avoid panic and (ii) requires bridge crews to promptly, truthfully and completely inform passengers of the facts as an on-board emergency develops. It is too early to have confidence that we understand the causes of the Costa Concordia disaster or are in a position to fairly judge the actions of the bridge crew following the accident. But one thing seems clear: based on numerous passenger reports, following the time when the bridge crew understood that the hull had been breached and the ship was taking on water, the passengers were told that there was an “electrical problem” that was under control or being addressed. The instinct of those in authority to deceive those for whom they are responsible is revealed over and over in the records of maritime and other disasters. In the 1999 sinking of the Sun Vista, for five hours during which an engine room fire raged out of control, passengers reported being told “over and over” that everything was OK. When the order to abandon ship finally was given, some passengers were lounging happily in the pool. In the 1991 sinking of Oceanos, the bridge crew failed to communicate anything to the passengers before abandoning both them and the ship. Information and instinct save lives in a disaster. On 9-11, thousands of workers in the South Tower of the World Trade Center survived because they followed their instincts and ignored public address system assurances that the building was “secure” and an instruction to return to their offices. Those on high floors who followed those instructions perished. In any evacuation avoidance of panic and obedience to instructions from those trained to deal with such situations are obviously desirable. But when passengers are deceived, this undermines the respect and confidence required in order for passengers to obey those instructions. And if the chaos of the situation overwhelms the training, capabilities, competence or courage of the crew, then information that maximizes the individual passenger’s “situational awareness” is what saves their lives. If you wish to support this request for a policy statement from each of the major cruise companies, please so indicate in a posting to this thread. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1554808 Terrific post and a great presentation of the concept: "The truth shall set you free." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBestIsYetToCome Posted January 23, 2012 #4314 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If the passengers don't recognize that the Captain has joined them on the lifeboat, the crew members operating the lifeboat would certainly be aware of who he is and acknowledge him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVALUATOR Posted January 23, 2012 #4315 Share Posted January 23, 2012 of a life boat drill that went terribly wrong. There were 7 crew members in the life boat at the time.:( One crew member was killed in the accident. It was not on a cruise ship, but the systems are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uniall Posted January 23, 2012 #4316 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'd never recognize the officers of any of the ships I've been on. Without a white shirt and an authoritative walk, that is. I'm even bad with the insignia...even at the Cunard captain's party I couldn't identify "the big man" himself. I just smile and nod alot. I suppose it would be different if it was important to you. On the other hand, I walked within grabbing distance of Orlando Bloom when he was shooting a film in Central Park and we were well past before my husband told me and I looked back and actually recognized him. (And I think Orlando Bloom is way cooler than a sea captain :cool:) So maybe I just wander around in an unobservant haze all the time. Who's Orlando Bloom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare tofubeast Posted January 23, 2012 #4317 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I just got a mass email from Adam Goldstein, President and CEO of RCCL regarding the tragedy and assuring RCCL cruisers of their safety measures. I was wondering how long it would take for such an email to be sent. They added this link regarding their safety operations: http://click.royalcaribbeanmarketing.com/?qs=6ecf5e41acdf12ed5e73ec662151fd9c49470707e79898b038a52400a22ac8f6ec9fafb73ff80872 A snippet of the email: To address some of your questions and concerns, here is a video that will provide an overview of safety onboard our ships; the training of our crew, officers and captains; and the many regulations that govern our practices. Click here to watch. As a past cruiser, we know your friends and family may be asking about your own time at sea. We hope that you'll share this video along with your personal Royal Caribbean experiences with them, and reinforce that cruising continues to maintain the best safety record of any industry in travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocruises Posted January 23, 2012 #4318 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Its much the same as the aircraft one, take ones shoes off. Rgds :D That's the way it's intended to work -- but I'm curious as to whether or not one person disregarding the rules in an emergency can disable a whole slide.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uniall Posted January 23, 2012 #4319 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just got this email from RCL on their saftey program: All of us at Royal Caribbean International continue to extend our heartfelt sympathies to those affected by Carnival Corporation's recent tragic incident on the Costa Concordia. As a Crown & Anchor Society member and loyal Royal Caribbean guest, we know you may have some questions as the situation continues to unfold. At Royal Caribbean International, the safety and security of our guests and crew is our highest priority. It is fundamental to our operations. Our maritime safety record over our 42-year history illustrates our commitment to the safety of the millions of guests and crew that sail on our ships. The measures we take in the interest of safety are many, often exceeding the regulatory requirements – these are all part of our ongoing commitment to innovation and continuous improvement in every aspect of our business. To address some of your questions and concerns, here is a video that will provide an overview of safety onboard our ships; the training of our crew, officers and captains; and the many regulations that govern our practices. Click here to watch. As a past cruiser, we know your friends and family may be asking about your own time at sea. We hope that you'll share this video along with your personal Royal Caribbean experiences with them, and reinforce that cruising continues to maintain the best safety record of any industry in travel. Thank you for your continued support and we look forward to welcoming you aboard again soon on one of our ships sailing to 270 destinations worldwide. Sincerely, Adam Goldstein President and CEO Royal Caribbean International Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules1121 Posted January 23, 2012 #4320 Share Posted January 23, 2012 All of us at Royal Caribbean International continue to extend our heartfelt sympathies to those affected by Carnival Corporation's recent tragic incident on the Costa Concordia. As a Crown & Anchor Society member and loyal Royal Caribbean guest, we know you may have some questions as the situation continues to unfold. While I think its good to reassure customers of your committment to safety, I think part of the real point of this letter is to point out that the ship was part of Carnival (since I am sure some aren't aware that Costa is owned by them). Personally, I think that comes off a litte underhanded but its business and I do tend to be a more sensitive soul than many in the world of business. I wonder if Carnival Cruise Lines is going to put out a similiar letter but emphasizing their separation from Costa (i.e. a letter covered with phrases about CCL safety and CCL policies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMDCruiseProf Posted January 23, 2012 #4321 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Your experts have not explained why a ship should not have a control system. Air has control system. Railroads have a control system. But there IS a control system... have you been on a modern cruise ship bridge? If you look at the radar info on any bridge you will see that ships use transponders much like aircraft - and they display a LOT more info than the aircraft transponder. Sat nav systems provide near total global coverage and allow for corporate check-ins of the bridge, course, and other operating parameters. Ships have black boxes that provide a wealth of information (if they are working - Costa... you stink). And honestly... you can't fix what happened on the Concordia because you can't fix corporate and/or personal stupidity... or worse yet evil intentions. Egypt Air flight 990 was deliberately flown into the sea by the pilot killing all 217 on board. How did air traffic control stop that one? Air Florida flight 90 crashed due to gross pilot negligence... how did air traffic control stop that one? Colgan Air Flight 3407 crashed because the pilots were overworked and were distracting themselves with chit chat (the pilot was hitting on his female co-pilot at one point) while the plane was iced out of the skies. Respectfully sir, I ask you: how did air traffic control systems (or even CRM) stop those examples (and I could give you a DOZEN more similar air disasters including the worst loss of life in air transportation history [Tenerife airport disaster: 3/27/77 - due to gross pilot error])? No control system will stop these type of accidents because they can't stop human stupidity, negligence, arrogance, incompetence, or distraction. There will never be a system that can stop any of the accidents we've discussed, because they can not be stopped by control systems. Engineers don't plan around folks like "Kosta, their Krazy Kaptain, and his Keystone Krew"... they plan on people using their puzzlers and their extensive training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules1121 Posted January 23, 2012 #4322 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No control system will stop these type of accidents because they can't stop human stupidity, negligence, arrogance, incompetence, or distraction. There will never be a system that can stop any of the accidents we've discussed, because they can not be stopped by control systems. Engineers don't plan around folks like "Kosta, their Krazy Kaptain, and his Keystone Krew"... they plan on people using their puzzlers and their extensive training. Agreed! All you can do it try to identify personalities at risk to "go rogue/stupid" AND empower other employees to speak up/step in if there is a potential safety hazard but you will never fully weed out those folks because of the fine line between arrogance and confidence in a command position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipfriend_max Posted January 23, 2012 #4323 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Does anyone know yet what will happen in the near future, concerning topics like pumping out the fuel and than salvaging the ship?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uniall Posted January 23, 2012 #4324 Share Posted January 23, 2012 While I think its good to reassure customers of your committment to safety, I think part of the real point of this letter is to point out that the ship was part of Carnival (since I am sure some aren't aware that Costa is owned by them). Personally, I think that comes off a litte underhanded but its business and I do tend to be a more sensitive soul than many in the world of business. I wonder if Carnival Cruise Lines is going to put out a similiar letter but emphasizing their separation from Costa (i.e. a letter covered with phrases about CCL safety and CCL policies). You're absolutely correct that RCL is motivated by self marketing motives. But, I think taking a pro active position is also intended to calm the any growing public concerns on the general industry safety. Some of the posts on this thread are a testament to that concern. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMDCruiseProf Posted January 23, 2012 #4325 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If this was Oasis of the seas we were talking about we could double all the numbers - and that means perhaps closer to 100 dead. But if any of the 500 person rafts couldn't have been used then it could easily be 1000s. Is that acceptable? - I think not. Well... it's not just the better deck views (and in general the area dedicated to lifeboats is rather industrial) the slides are a superior way to get people off the ship quickly. They are much faster and can be used in a much wider variety of situations. The giant rafts are certainly safe, if not as comfortable, as a lifeboat. But you have to remember that these evacuation systems are designed for *cruising* which makes the assumption that help/assistance would like arrive quickly (ie: within 12 hours) so that an uncomfortable raft experience is not likely to be a long one. The engineering principle would be something like "we need to get 'em off quick first and keep them as dry as possible for a few hours". I, personally, like to see the slides (and there are also usually some lifeboats) because I think they work pretty darn well. I'd get on the OotS or AotS and sleep soundly every night. In fact... I'm trying to figure out when I can do that in the next few months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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