Costa Concordia SINKING

[Dorotheajn]

On a joint basis with rescue teams, the Company worked to provide evacuated passengers and crewmembers with all the necessary assistance to ensure they were able to return home. Subsequently, it contacted guests by telephone after they had returned home to check on their physical and emotional wellbeing, and to confirm that they will receive a refund for the cruise and all material expenses related to it.

 

So dumping the passengers at an airport hotel and telling them that they can do no more, which has been reported on this board by a member on board Concordia is "rendering all necessary assistance" :confused:

[Uniall]

I wondered that myself, plus the concept of anyone letting a civilian snag a lifeboat.

 

But I do enough questioning of the bad stories...I'm afraid to question the good ones! :D

 

He's more than "a civilian". He's the Deputy Mayor and probably an officer of the Port Authority which gives him and the Italian Coast guard jurisdiction once there's a request for assistance and abadon ship order.

[King of Cool]

HelloHelloHola asked:

 

Is BRM similar to CRM in terms of principles and in practice? Is BRM mandatory or widely practiced? Also, could the Concordia incident be prevented if BRM was practiced? I am assuming it was not practiced, I could be wrong.

 

Yes, I think you are referring to Bridge Resource Management which would be the equivalent of aviation Crew Resource Management. This also can come under the name of Cockpit Resources Management or Aircrew Team Management (ATM) but I think Crew Resource Management is a better term as Cockpit Resource Management implies that the cabin crew are not involved such as Bridge Resource Management implies that safety on board is the domain of the bridge officers only.

 

Courses can also be known as Human Factor Training

 

Crew Resource Management in aviation originated way back in the 70’s when NASA discovered that the majority of aviation accidents were as a result of human error or a combination of human factors rather than technical or equipment failures.

 

The training is in addition to normal skill training required to do the job and focuses on interpersonal communication, leadership, decision making and a host of other issues that relate to the entire crew or team.

 

United Airlines was a leader in introducing CRM for its crews in the 80’s in aviation and it has been adopted by most of the progressive and professional airlines (maybe not so much in Russia). Whether it has been successful or not can only be judged by statistics. Despite a massive increase in airline movements we have the lowest airline accident rate in history.

 

CRM has been widened to anything that moves likes spacecraft, ships and trains and anything that affects their movement like air traffic controllers. It can be applied to any system that has a safety or efficiency implication involving a team such as rescue and fire services.

 

As to whether BRM is widely practised in shipping I am not an expert in marine activities and cannot say but my guess is that it would NOT be, simply because we have not had many shipping accidents. But when they do occur they can have disastrous results as seen by this one. My hunch is that you are about to see more BRM in the cruise industry.

 

(There is also BRM Business Resource Management and CRM Customer Relations Management which deal with making money rather than saving lives)

[Uniall]

That is so very sad. As the mom of a little girl that absolutely breaks my heart. :(

 

Its hard to imagine and understand what happened on the ship when the floor became the walls and water started flooding in. Those poor folks who died in those conditions.

 

Julie

You're right, this story is a heartbreaker. It's right there with the ship's violinist who helped passengers get off the ship but died when he went back for his violin. The moral of the story, get your life vest and then go to your life boat station and stay there. Also, get friendly with your neighbors so you can defend yourself against animals who try to push you aside.

[slowhand]

I'm a bit confused as to why the Italian Coast Guard and/or Navy weren't at the forefront of rescue operations on the night of the wreck. The Deputy Mayor and ship's doctor seem to have been left to their own devices to help in the rescue for hours and hours.

[IRL_Joanie]

I'm a bit confused as to why the Italian Coast Guard and/or Navy weren't at the forefront of rescue operations on the night of the wreck. The Deputy Mayor and ship's doctor seem to have been left to their own devices to help in the rescue for hours and hours.

They were not on their own. They were nearly the 1st on the scene, Doctor was already on board and the Deputy Mayor lives right there. Coast Guard came in shortly after the accident.

 

Doctor, Deputy Mayor and others stayed to help the passengers.

 

If you read the Der Spiegel Article I posted an hour or 2 ago, you will get the timeline...

 

One thing to put into perspective is this:

 

1. Something terrible happens at/to my neighbors house. I am home and hear/see it happen.

 

2. I immediately call 911 ( our emergency system, for those not familair with it), while at the same time tunning to render assistance in whatever whay I can to my neighbor.

 

3. Emergency response arrives; i.e., Fire Department/Rescue, Police, media (if it sounds bad enough since they are scanning all Emergency radio channels)

 

4. I continue to render assistance until the Emergency Officials tell me to get the heck out of there and let them do their jobs.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Keep in mind that the Coast Guard station where Captain De Falco was calling from is on the mainland and he had to get his people activated. Probably only took at maximum of 5 minutes, but those 5 minutes could have made the difference in the number of dead and missing.

 

Joanie

[Cuizer2]

Sounds like they possibly know your clicking habits. Or it could be just pure coincidence.

 

You've heard of tracking cookies haven't you?

[Cuizer2]

But how did the Deputy Mayor get from the lifeboat at sea level up on to the deck of the ship?

 

He tripped and fell into the bridge, narrowly missing the captain who tripped and fell from the bridge into the lifeboat.

[SomeBeach]

Probably more than 5 minutes as they had to get to the island, some 20 miles (give or take) off the mainland.

Plus we need to take into consideration that once they neared the island, there would have been a lot of boat traffic going back and forth.

[Minoushka]

Because cruise ships are bigger and bigger what woould be the chances of people being evacuated from a ship the size of Allure or Oasis ???/Could they really save all pax if this had happened there???

I am seriuosly rethinking ever going bAck to a Mammoth ship...8000 people to rescue sounds phenomenal and horrifying

Can you imagine the panic with that Mob ? I would not want to be one of 8000 terrified pax ...I think it would be a madhouse!!1

What is eerily strange about this accident is the amount of untruths told pax as this ship was sinking I saw the tape of a crew member telling pax to return to their cabins .So how can we trust them in future if they are reluctant to abandon ship while knowing there is something seriously wrong on board .

When I read about it it reminds me of Titanic ...not enough lifeboats told allwas Ok ...same here

I guess trusting your gut feeling and getting to a lifeboat saved people I'm not sure how survivors will get over this PTSD will kick in I'm sure very soon

I for one would not get near a ship after such an experience and I find it ironic Costa offered another cruise ...gee no thanks

 

Michele

[IRL_Joanie]

Probably more than 5 minutes as they had to get to the island, some 20 miles (give or take) off the mainland.

Plus we need to take into consideration that once they neared the island, there would have been a lot of boat traffic going back and forth.

 

You are correct. I was stating 5 minutes, maximum, activation time, from the second that Captain De Marco first received word of the accident from whomever, to the time he had the first rescuers/helicopters/Coast Guard vehicles on the move to the scene.

 

I think your 20 minute response time, once activated is pretty close to being spot on!! The mainland was not that far off.

 

Joanie

[gentlemancruiser]

He tripped and fell into the bridge, narrowly missing the captain who tripped and fell from the bridge into the lifeboat.

Makes total sense now that you mention it!

[Milaandra]

There are, but there weren't a lot of "older" women that I saw.

 

Did you see a list with ages? I'd love to see that...I don't know why it's important to me...

[Uniall]

He tripped and fell into the bridge, narrowly missing the captain who tripped and fell from the bridge into the lifeboat.

 

The moral of the story is: Always look where your walking and keep your eyes off the blond in the fabled "little black dress." :eek:

[Vampire Parrot]

As to whether BRM is widely practised in shipping I am not an expert in marine activities and cannot say but my guess is that it would NOT be, simply because we have not had many shipping accidents. But when they do occur they can have disastrous results as seen by this one. My hunch is that you are about to see more BRM in the cruise industry.

 

P&O Cruises operates a BRM system, "BTCC", Bridge Team Command and Control. The bridge personnel always operate as a team. If something is overlooked by the senior officer, the other personnel on the bridge are trained to catch that and they are required to positively notify the senior officer on the bridge that someting is wrong or has been overlooked.

 

The level of manning on the bridge changes with the navigational requirements. At sea, there will usually be three personnel on the bridge (senior OOW, junior OOW, lookout). Approaching or leaving a port, there will be the Captain, Deputy Captain, Senior OOW, Officer Cadet, and usually two seamen on the bridge. That's at a minimum. The junior OOW and safety officer (Senior 1st officer) will be in charge of the foc'sle and aft mooring stations.

 

VP

[Hebersgyll]

Almost looks like it was superimposed.

 

Maybe, without needing to wait until all the enquiries are complete and the outcomes published, just requiring every cruise ship catain to display that picture in their cabin would be a very valuable safety enhancement.

 

i don't mean that to be disrespectful of the vast majority of skilled and excellent captains. I mean that the single photographic icon stands for all the issues being discussed, such as passenger information, evacuation drills, equipment checks, ensuring compliance with procedures, professionalism, etc. Its a reminder about why they all matter.

[HelloHelloHola]

HelloHelloHola asked:

 

Yes, I think you are referring to Bridge Resource Management which would be the equivalent of aviation Crew Resource Management. This also can come under the name of Cockpit Resources Management or Aircrew Team Management (ATM) but I think Crew Resource Management is a better term as Cockpit Resource Management implies that the cabin crew are not involved such as Bridge Resource Management implies that safety on board is the domain of the bridge officers only.

 

Courses can also be known as Human Factor Training

 

Crew Resource Management in aviation originated way back in the 70’s when NASA discovered that the majority of aviation accidents were as a result of human error or a combination of human factors rather than technical or equipment failures.

 

The training is in addition to normal skill training required to do the job and focuses on interpersonal communication, leadership, decision making and a host of other issues that relate to the entire crew or team.

 

United Airlines was a leader in introducing CRM for its crews in the 80’s in aviation and it has been adopted by most of the progressive and professional airlines (maybe not so much in Russia). Whether it has been successful or not can only be judged by statistics. Despite a massive increase in airline movements we have the lowest airline accident rate in history.

 

CRM has been widened to anything that moves likes spacecraft, ships and trains and anything that affects their movement like air traffic controllers. It can be applied to any system that has a safety or efficiency implication involving a team such as rescue and fire services.

 

As to whether BRM is widely practised in shipping I am not an expert in marine activities and cannot say but my guess is that it would NOT be, simply because we have not had many shipping accidents. But when they do occur they can have disastrous results as seen by this one. My hunch is that you are about to see more BRM in the cruise industry.

 

(There is also BRM Business Resource Management and CRM Customer Relations Management which deal with making money rather than saving lives)

 

 

I am familiar with CRM (Crew Resource Management) as it has proven to be successful in the flight deck. Since you have already mentioned and explained CRM many times, I will just leave it as is. My question is whether BRM (Bridge Resource Management) is similar in principle and in practice. Also, is BRM adapted in major cruise lines?

[Milaandra]

I have not read all of this yet, but this, to me, is the way journalism should be in the heat of a tragedy.

 

Beautifully written and bookending with Russel's brother gave me chills, particularly at the end. Poignant.

 

My only issue is that I think journalists should check facts with the source, not just reprint information from other news sources.

[IRL_Joanie]

Giuess there will always be these ^(^&^(&^$%$# I cannot think of the right word for these type of people :( At least none that would not get me banned from Cruise critic for life.

Scam: A group of Hungarian fraudsters have tried to use the Costa Concordia disaster to fake the death of a woman in order to receive compensation

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091298/Costa-Concordia-disaster-Trio-Hungarian-fraudsters-tried-fake-death-woman.html#ixzz1kQLAi56T

 

Joanie

[Ozcruiser1]

Beautifully written and bookending with Russel's brother gave me chills, particularly at the end. Poignant.

 

My only issue is that I think journalists should check facts with the source, not just reprint information from other news sources.

 

Agree that the article is good, takes out a lot of the sensationalism BUT this one line lets it down...

'Moments when Something Unpredictable Happens'......

 

The ship was commanded by Captain Francesco Schettino, 52, a handsome man with the look of an aging gigolo.....

 

Surely handsome, men when they age should not be seen as being a gigolo in their earlier years. This is as bad as describing all "pretty young women in black dresses" as 'doing' the ships crew.

[SomeBeach]

Giuess there will always be these ^(^&^(&^$%$# I cannot think of the right word for these type of people :( At least none that would not get me banned from Cruise critic for life.

Scam: A group of Hungarian fraudsters have tried to use the Costa Concordia disaster to fake the death of a woman in order to receive compensation

Read more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091298/Costa-Concordia-disaster-Trio-Hungarian-fraudsters-tried-fake-death-woman.html#ixzz1kQLAi56T

 

Joanie

 

Just finished reading your link and then went further.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091128/Costa-Concordia-Francesco-Schettino-victim-witch-hunt-claims-wife.html

 

This goes into comments the wife made to an Italian magazine.

It also contains some new pictures of the salvage company setting up.

[captainmcd]

I am familiar with CRM (Crew Resource Management) as it has proven to be successful in the flight deck. Since you have already mentioned and explained CRM many times, I will just leave it as is. My question is whether BRM (Bridge Resource Management) is similar in principle and in practice. Also, is BRM adapted in major cruise lines?

 

The International Convention of Standards for Watchkeeping (STCW) required me, and all other deck officers to go back to school (a 3 day course) that basically was supposed to teach us to question the conning officer when we thought they were making a mistake, and for the captain or conning officer to pay attention to them. In theory it was a no-brainer. I always asked for help on the bridge when things were getting hectic, often for arrivals and departures from unfamiliar ports. In practice I suspect that those captains who really could have benefited from the course where those who did not pay attention.

[IRL_Joanie]

Just finished reading your link and then went further.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091128/Costa-Concordia-Francesco-Schettino-victim-witch-hunt-claims-wife.html

 

This goes into comments the wife made to an Italian magazine.

It also contains some new pictures of the salvage company setting up.

 

Yeah, I reread the whole thing again and read his wifes' comments... Now we know where her friend took her to yesterday....

 

Did you read the description of what the divers have to go through to search... That explains why it is taking so long:(

 

God Bless these Divers and may they know just how heroic we think they are!

 

Joanie

[Milaandra]

 

Surely handsome, men when they age should not be seen as being a gigolo in their earlier years. This is as bad as describing all "pretty young women in black dresses" as 'doing' the ships crew.

 

I agree! It bothered me, too.

 

I also thought it was an underhanded way of implying something about his morals. Which is cheezy.

 

By the way, what does a gigolo look like? I've never seen one. I wonder if the writer has?

[Uniall]

Agree that the article is good, takes out a lot of the sensationalism BUT this one line lets it down...

'Moments when Something Unpredictable Happens'......

 

The ship was commanded by Captain Francesco Schettino, 52, a handsome man with the look of an aging gigolo.....

 

Surely handsome, men when they age should not be seen as being a gigolo in their earlier years. This is as bad as describing all "pretty young women in black dresses" as 'doing' the ships crew.

 

New Costa Cruises Captains' Theme Song

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpAM9qCsuyI