Is Dorothy Dead?

[Bundles917]

On a recent Celebrity Eclipse cruise the ship was not lacking for gay couples and singles but the Friends of Dorothy meetings (7:45 PM Michael’s Club) were as well attended as an Anita Bryant memorial.

 

On most nights no one showed. Just my partner and I and a very eager bar tender trying to lure in male duos she thought might be a gay couple. On some nights we were happily joined by two to three other fellow family members.

 

As the cruise progressed, and we got to know more of our gay shipmates via other venues and activities, we discovered many did not know there was such a thing as a Friends of Dorothy gathering. And those who knew of F.O.D. or learnt of it did not have a dinner conflict (many preferring drinks first, dinner later seating) and did not attend.

 

So is F.O.D. outdated? Have we gotten to a point of not wanting to be ghettoed? Or could this have been a case of gay cruisers not knowing about the event? (On Celebrity it’s only posted on a board next to guest services.) Or could the name itself of the meeting be as antiquated as the 1950s green clothing identifier of gay? Would GLBT Social or similar be a better tag for the event?

[guy44134]

So is F.O.D. outdated? Have we gotten to a point of not wanting to be ghettoed? Or could this have been a case of gay cruisers not knowing about the event? (On Celebrity it’s only posted on a board next to guest services.) Or could the name itself of the meeting be as antiquated as the 1950s green clothing identifier of gay? Would GLBT Social or similar be a better tag for the event?

 

I think you need to be of a "certain age" to know what FOD means. On Princess, it is listed in the daily Princess Patter as the "GLBT Get-Together." I think this is a clearer and more direct means to advertise the gathering. However, it really depends on the cruise and the route as to the numbers of attendees. On our last Princess cruise there were never more than 6-8 persons. But on a previous cruise there were regularly 20+ attendees who also ended up together at various events like game shows, trivia competitions, shows, etc.

[mitttocs]

Just off the Solstice here. The FOD meetings were each night at 8:00 in Martini Bar. While sparsely attended, my partner and I met several awesome gay couples on this trip, and we are certain to get together with them again for future vacations. Many of the folks we met were not even through FOD, but random chat at one bar or another.

[MightySailinMan]

Perhaps the number of G&L cruises has eaten into the number of people who cruise non-gay who have any interest in such events. IE the ones cruising on non-gay cruises are less prone to attending such.

 

Plus the lines do nothing to make these enticing, it is just a unused bar being utilized to make a buck for the line. They don't even put up a rainbow flag...How about if they had a kick off with someone playing a piano for an hour. The lines put nothing into it, so it is nothing.

 

And that is too bad.

[Whitemarsh]

I don't think the name of the event has anything to do with the turnout. I've been to FODs that have had a good turnout and a GLBT meeting where I was the only person sitting there before one other couple turned up.

[memory-minus]

I am 31 and knew what "FOD" meant the first time I cruised (in 2010) but I know a lot of my peers don't understand the reference. I've been out for 16 years though...

 

Personally, I find the "FOD" reference charming but outdated. Simply calling it "GLBT" might be more accessible at the cost of discretion, although, as an American living in a state that bans gay marriage, I am not too interested in discretion when it comes to these matters anyway.

[Schplinky]

I think the name of the event is a big deterrent. Some don't have a clue what it means and others don't like the idea of attending a meeting where there needs to be a code word. It's 2012, after all. I prefer Princess' approach to calling it the GLBT gathering.

 

I also think that for many younger gay couples, being gay is a lot like having and other affinity with folks, like being from Canada or being a public servant. They don't see the need to associate only with those of the same characteristic. The ambivalence to Dorothy may be a sign that folks are just assimilating.

[DiaryofNDJ]

I think the name of the event is a big deterrent. Some don't have a clue what it means and others don't like the idea of attending a meeting where there needs to be a code word. It's 2012, after all. I prefer Princess' approach to calling it the GLBT gathering.

 

I also think that for many younger gay couples, being gay is a lot like having and other affinity with folks, like being from Canada or being a public servant. They don't see the need to associate only with those of the same characteristic. The ambivalence to Dorothy may be a sign that folks are just assimilating.

 

I think you're definitely right about younger gay couples. I'm 30, live in NY, and have been with my partner for 5 years... we don't go exclusively to gay bars when we go out, so I view it the same way with FOD meetings. I'd much rather be in a normal setting and casually meet people.

[memory-minus]

I'd much rather be in a normal setting

 

:confused:

[cublet]

Hello,

 

My problem with originally not understanding the reference and latterly being described as a 'Friend of Dorothy' is that I don't like musicals.

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

[dr.dawg]

well, on my thirty day cruise to the south pacific on hal's rotterdam this past january, there were no folks who showed up to the fod/glbt meeings, except one couple who did nothing but work their laptops. nobody else. now on my recent thirty day from ft. laud to peru to san diego, there were at least 20 guys. glbt was sheduled for 4pm in the mix; there was no 'happy hour there, so we moved to the crow's nest, but were assigned a 'side room'. but we got the drink bargain. my friend, not lover, and travel companion help set this up. i liked it at first, but soon, after a couple of weeks, got tired of the whole thing. he went to the fod's; i went to the main lounge and enjoyed meeting a lot of new people, with some fascinating conversations to share. so, i got tired quickly of being separated and 'ghettoized.' a 'dusty' group to be sure; and i'm 68. my friend loved the fods; i had enough very soon. so, for each and every one, i guess.

[DiaryofNDJ]

:confused:

 

What? A normal setting as opposed to a ghettoized one as previously mentioned in a few posts... settle...not suggesting gay people aren't 'normal.'

[Doonan]

GLBT seems to have become the name now on the ships. I always go and have met some great and interesting people from all over the world.

 

On some cruises it may just be a few of us, on others big groups. I just find its nice to meet other people with a bond between us.

 

At the same time. I still make sure I sit for dinner at a large table with whoever the ship puts us with ... never to this point anyone gay ... and have always had a great time and made lots of friends ... who I also meet for drinks around the ship and on shore in the ports.

 

The great thing on the ship, it's the mix of people one meets from the different countries strait or gay man or women.

 

Neil

[soldham]

I meet and associate with people on cruises whom I find something interesting about and sexuality just is not one of them.

 

I find the meeting up for drinks with people of vastly different ages and experiences just because they are gay to be a much less cohesive experience than other opportunties.

[D.B.]

I think the FOD name may be outdated, as younger gays have no idea what this term means. However, in my experience, the attendance (or non-attendance) at FOD meetings is usually determined by other factors such as time and location.

 

For example, on a recent cruise on the Solstice, the first FOD meeting was well attended, but no one particularly liked the location -- the Molecular Bar. Within days, most had given up on the official FOD meeting, and a large "unofficial" FOD gathering took place daily at the Martini Bar instead. And when I was last on the Queen Mary 2, the FOD meeting conflicted with the early dinner, so most of the gays would meet-up at the G32 bar following the late dinner instead.

[All aboard??]

What? A normal setting as opposed to a ghettoized one as previously mentioned in a few posts... settle...not suggesting gay people aren't 'normal.'

 

I agree. Why would I want to limit myself to only making friends with gay people on a cruise when I can be friends with everyone :D

 

Homosexuality is no longer taboo and people need to remember that Stonewall was thirty years ago, not yesterday.

[Whitemarsh]

I agree. Why would I want to limit myself to only making friends with gay people on a cruise when I can be friends with everyone :D

 

Homosexuality is no longer taboo and people need to remember that Stonewall was thirty years ago, not yesterday.

 

The point of a FOD/GLBTI meeting is not to limit yourself to just meeting only gay people. It's an opportunity to meet other GLBTI people you may not have spoken to. Why wouldn't you go and say hello?

 

You can't on the one hand say you want to be friends with everyone, but on the other hand you wouldn't attend a FOD/GLBTI meeting. It's sounds as though you want to be friends with everyone but those who would attend such meetings.

[soldham]

The point of a FOD/GLBTI meeting is not to limit yourself to just meeting only gay people. It's an opportunity to meet other GLBTI people you may not have spoken to. Why wouldn't you go and say hello?

 

You can't on the one hand say you want to be friends with everyone, but on the other hand you wouldn't attend a FOD/GLBTI meeting. It's sounds as though you want to be friends with everyone but those who would attend such meetings.

 

I think what he was trying to say was that he would meet people - gay or straight - in non-compartmentalized venues such as dinner, games, by the pool, etc where sexuality really does not come into the equation.

 

I am certainly not against such get togethers (I guess they are similar to singles meet and mingle, etc) but my experience has been that I have much more in common with people I just 'run into on the ship' than I ever have had at one of these meetings. (The last one I was at there were so many stereotypes being flung around I had to leave for my own sanity ;))

[All aboard??]

The point of a FOD/GLBTI meeting is not to limit yourself to just meeting only gay people. It's an opportunity to meet other GLBTI people you may not have spoken to. Why wouldn't you go and say hello?

 

You can't on the one hand say you want to be friends with everyone, but on the other hand you wouldn't attend a FOD/GLBTI meeting. It's sounds as though you want to be friends with everyone but those who would attend such meetings.

 

I think I am lost in translation. I never implied that I would never go to a get together, what I did though was indicate that I really couldn't care if there was a meet and greet or not.

 

Friends of Dorothy meetings in this day and age goes against everything that Gay Pride stands for. By continuously insisting on these meetings we are in fact marginalising ourselves from society and in so doing insulting those who got beaten if not killed, protesting for our rights......if we want to be treated equally, why then are we upset when we are?

[Boytjie]

Friends of Dorothy meetings in this day and age goes against everything that Gay Pride stands for. By continuously insisting on these meetings we are in fact marginalising ourselves from society and in so doing insulting those who got beaten if not killed, protesting for our rights......if we want to be treated equally, why then are we upset when we are?

 

 

I guess all gay bars, gay accommodations, gay ship charters should close down too then. :rolleyes:

[Schplinky]

I guess all gay bars, gay accommodations, gay ship charters should close down too then. :rolleyes:

 

While I don't entirely agree with the other poster, this is a different thing. If you go to a gay bar, gay cruise, etc., you are by definition choosing an exclusive environment for your own affinity group. If you go on a mainstream cruise and then prefer to associate primarily with your own affinity group, it has a different connotation.

 

Listen, I've heard the "they need to value my dollars" argument a lot in support of FOD being listed in daily papers or in support of the cruise line sending drinks or a staff member to the FOD but I'm still not sure why FOD's are any different than a party for the Canadian customers, the Geminis or those who own Hyundais. If folks want to go to them, fine. If folks don't, that should be fine, too. We generally go to them to meet people but the antipathy often expressed about those who don't is odd to me.

[Bundles917]

 

Friends of Dorothy meetings in this day and age goes against everything that Gay Pride stands for. By continuously insisting on these meetings we are in fact marginalising ourselves from society and in so doing insulting those who got beaten if not killed, protesting for our rights......if we want to be treated equally, why then are we upset when we are?

 

 

I guess all gay bars, gay accommodations, gay ship charters should close down too then. :rolleyes:

 

Add to Boytjie's wit list in response to All Aboard:

 

Any church of a particular denomination

NAACP

GMHC

Any parade in NY that celebrates heritage (The National Puerto Rican Day Parade, St. Patrick's Day Parade, et. al.)

Any trade union or fellowship based on heritage such as H.O.L.A.

Political parties

Friends of Bill W.

 

And to the absurd... any restaurant that specializes in the culinary arts of a culture; Fare-thee-well Chinese Star III...

 

I think some responders are missing my original intent with asking the question. I was curious if the shrinking attendance at F.O.D. gatherings was a trend and what were possible reasons for such.

 

The thirty or so minutes allotted to each F.O.D. meeting is infinitesimal compared to the amount of time spent engaging non-GLBT passengers on a cruise. Meeting fellow GLBT passengers during a F.O.D. gathering does not equal excluding all others on the ship. Or excluding yourself from life beyond the GLBT bubble. It's just a brief engagement to find and discover people with similar interests and possible past experiences. My partner and I discovered a wonderful gay couple at the F.O.D. gathering and invited them to join our dinner table; which they did. We also made friends with married, heterosexual couples and kept in contact with them throughout the cruise.

 

You may argue that mingling for GLBT folk can be done ship wide; yes. But no one's gaydar is that accurate to detect every GLBT traveler. Ever been to a gay campground? I've met men while camping that I would have thought if seen on the street were roughneck, truck stop gay-bashers. I would have passed by them, eyes adverted. But in a setting in which I knew they were gay, I discovered a black eye was not coming my way and got to know men I wouldn't have met beyond the relaxed environment of a gay venture.

 

Like from a recent episode of FAMILY GUY in which Brian (the dog) is out at night in the backyard he and other dogs 'bark' over fences:

 

"You a dog too? Hey I'm a dog!"

 

F.O.D. meetings offer us opportunities to discover openly who's a fellow dog as we mingle among thousands of varying creatures.

 

;)

[memory-minus]

Friends of Dorothy meetings in this day and age goes against everything that Gay Pride stands for. By continuously insisting on these meetings we are in fact marginalising ourselves from society and in so doing insulting those who got beaten if not killed, protesting for our rights......if we want to be treated equally, why then are we upset when we are?

 

I respectfully disagree. Sometimes it's just nice to get away from straight people.

[D.B.]

Friends of Dorothy meetings in this day and age goes against everything that Gay Pride stands for. By continuously insisting on these meetings we are in fact marginalising ourselves from society and in so doing insulting those who got beaten if not killed, protesting for our rights......if we want to be treated equally, why then are we upset when we are?

 

 

I'm not sure this poster fully understands what constitutes marginalization and what does not. The poster's logic basically boils down to this: anyone who plans/attends a FOD meeting (or theoretically any "gay space" like a gay bar or other exclusively gay activity) is participating in an event that negates the last 40+ years of the gay rights movement. Yeah, right. The poster's statement is absurd.

[Carnival_Brides]

I'm 26 and I've been cruising for five years and out for six. I knew what FOD was, but the way it was characterized by my LGBT friends in college was not something I was interested in (a place for cruising). I now know this to be false and my fiancee and I attend sometimes just to meet other people, because sometimes we feel like we're the only ones--especially when there are the random snickers and stares because we do act affectionate (pecks on the cheek and holding hands) in public.