Lighters on Planes

[kryos]

I support any measures that they take if it keeps 9-11 from happening again.

 

Now what the hell am I going to do with my lighters?

A lighter in your checked bags will be of no risk for another 9-11. You have no access to those bags while in-flight.

 

That's where mine are going.

 

There is not enough gas at pressure in a little BIC lighter to be of any risk for another ValueJet either. I could only imagine that scenario if you were transporting a huge butane-fired table type lighter that maybe you picked up somewhere in your travels. If that's the case, just make sure you don't put butane into it until you get home.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

You are correct. However, that is the logic for disallowing lighters in checked luggage (maybe they're afraid the rats in the cargo hold will flick the Bic?).

Use the child-safety variety. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jhannah]

... a simple pen can be used to pierce a juggler ...

Yeah. And a mime, too. :D

[Greyhound3]

Yeah. And a mime, too. :D

 

I've always felt that mimes, like children, should be seen and not heard...

[B1636Swede@aol.com]

We just got off the Caribbean Princess in Fort Lauderdale yesterday. Being ex-airline employees we followed the rules and left our lighters on board the ship.

Our friends took theirs in their carry on luggage and got right through security.

 

My personal opinion is the matches could be more dangerous than a bic lighter that goes out all the time unless you cup your hand around it. One lit match and you could light the whole pack and start a fire pretty quickly.

 

The rule just went into effect the past few days, so I think it will take a few weeks to really see compliance with it.

 

Happy cruising,

Skycruiser

[peterv]

I hate to say it, but I have never heard such sorry comments from intelligent people. Americans truly are a nation of sheep.

 

To actually think that these TSA rules actually make air travel safer is surely deluding themselves. I agree with the previous poster, that securing the cockpit door was effective, probably should have been done long before 9/11.

 

If they are so worried about another Tim Reid episode, that they need to ban lighters, is really comical. If banning lighters is so important, then I am truly worried about flying. I would think that finding explosives would be the priority and much easier to spot.

 

But the TSA is usually too busy roughing up the old lady and making people take off their shoes.

 

No wonder the American Government is looked upon so stupidly by the rest of the world. And before you say it, I am an American, and definitely see the US from a different aspect living in the UK..

 

Just a couple of good quotes for you to ponder here:

 

Benjamin Franklin:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

 

Hermann Goering in an interview during Nuremburg:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

[riekl]

Completely agree Peter .. at least in reagards to the TSA ..

 

The REAL root of the problem is we have a ruling class now that the founders never intended. All the breaks in the congress's schedule are not there so they can go home and campaign they are there so they can go home and harvest crops as they are intended to be part time every day people.

 

Anyone who has spent a lifetime in public service has completely failed the system. It is because of this that all these elected officials are MORE worried about voting for what will get them elected the next time rather then what they feel is right. Hence we get dozens of laws and decrees every year that are "busy work" waste money, waste time, waste productivity but gosh darn it we sure look like we are doing something ! Elect me again !

[garycarla]

I support any measures that they take if it keeps 9-11 from happening again.

Now what the hell am I going to do with my lighters?

 

Dear Steve and others who take this stance:

 

Please do not say things like this. Though just about anyone, including me agree with your statement, your assumption is that the lighter thing along with the shoe carnival and other wastes of time and money will prevent another 9/11. They will not. TSA studies along with many others show that guns, etc still get through security. There are plenty of other weapons available inside the secure area. They know they can not stop the flow of lighters from crafty bad guys, but can easily get them from the traveling public.

 

The only things that have taken place that have a good chance of preventing another 9/11 is the secured cockpit door and the change in policy that allowed hijackers to do whatever they wanted.

 

All the rest of this is window dressing.

[Northender]

I hate to say it, but I have never heard such sorry comments from intelligent people. Americans truly are a nation of sheep.

 

Thank God my department listened to our boss to GET OUT and follow so and so and not the announcement from the building management to go back that Tower II was not affected. BOOOOM

 

To actually think that these TSA rules actually make air travel safer is surely deluding themselves. I agree with the previous poster, that securing the cockpit door was effective, probably should have been done long before 9/11.

 

If they are so worried about another Tim Reid episode, that they need to ban lighters, is really comical. If banning lighters is so important, then I am truly worried about flying. I would think that finding explosives would be the priority and much easier to spot.

 

Tim Reid is an actor, Richard Reid was the shoe bomber. Did you ever contemplate what may have happened if he was able to complete his terrorist act?

 

But the TSA is usually too busy roughing up the old lady and making people take off their shoes.

 

What would you suggest?

 

No wonder the American Government is looked upon so stupidly by the rest of the world. And before you say it, I am an American, and definitely see the US from a different aspect living in the UK..

 

To bad you are in the UK. We could use some people here in the good ol' USofA that are not stupid. Maybe you could come back and join Homeland Security and put your ideas forth

 

Just a couple of good quotes for you to ponder here:

 

Benjamin Franklin:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

 

Hermann Goering in an interview during Nuremburg:

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

The world has changed many times over since these quotes. As we say here in America, New Normal

[bubbadog]

i wonder if they still make those pen lighters:))):rolleyes:

[spongerob]

I guess this means my lighter that looks like a .45 auto is out of the question entirely.

[inaspin]

When I had to file a claim for lost /damaged items with TSA and about the appalling behaviour of one of their employees ......I spoke to a staff trainer who had spent many many years working in the UK at Heathrow Airport

 

Clearly she failed to learn much and has taught TSA staff even less

 

The UK has been forced to contend with terrorism from the IRA for many years and guess who funds the IRA ????????????

 

Noraid

[calikak]

We just had some folks from our DC office in town yesterday and they mentioned that their matches, which were in their checked luggage, were confiscated by TSA (not sure if they flew out of DCA or IAD). We were all surprised because it was my understanding that matches are allowed. Again, this was in their checked lugagge, so maybe they're still OK in carry-ons? The hillarious part of the situation is that I'm a federal employee and the people from our DC office were security people who were bringing the matches to show what should go into an emergency kit as part of a "Be prepared in case of terrorism" training. :rolleyes:

[Greyhound3]

Note that the original ban applied only to butane lighters - the TSA took it a step further and applied it to ALL lighters - probably because some screeners are too dumb to know the difference.

 

Again, to protest this idiotic ban, we need to write to our Senators demanding a change. This does nothing to improve airline security.

[BullinOhio]

I wonder if the flints in the lighters (and butane of course) and the compounds in the matches could set off alarms on new bomb "sniffing" machines used for screening? I can deal with not taking a lighter. I cannot smoke in most of the airports anyway.

 

Signed,

 

Grumpy airline passenger that needs nicotine

[peterv]

Northender,

 

I'm glad to see that you are not one of the sheep. If I had been in the WTC, I would have left as well.

 

Thank you for the correction, for some reason Tim Reid came to mind, not Richard.

 

What would have happened had he lit his shoe, the answer to that is simple, the plane would have blown up. However all these rules that the TSA has established do nothing to deter someone who is committed to do this, especially if they have backing. What it does do is provide a false sense of security to the general public.

 

9/11 happened because of the general attitude towards hijackers, which was to appease them. If the same situation occurred today, then the attitude is much different. Most passengers and crew will now actively try to disarm and prevent them from gaining control of the plane. The fact that the TSA bans the implements used does nothing to enhance security, simply because practically anything can be used as a weapon. They could accomplish the same thing with a sharp pencil, or a broken bottle. Maybe not as effective, but just as deadly.

 

Don't think the UK is any bastion of freedom either. They have successfully passed a bill that eliminates Habeas Corpus, they can now hold you indefinitely without charge, and most recently repealed the law on Double Jeopardy. In other words, the UK government can put you in prison without charge for as long as they wish, and if they do bring you to trial and do not get the verdict that they wish, they can put you back in prison anyway while they "discover" new evidence and then retry you.

 

I'm just waiting for that to go through in the States.

 

Yes, the world has changed quite a bit since those two quotes, but the sad thing is is that they still ring true, maybe even more so.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Northender]

Thanks for your "gentler" reply Peter.

 

Still disagree with you on some points, but that is what democracy is all about.

 

I just wonder what all the naysayers think we should do that would increase flying safety, everyone complains about what affects them personally, but no solutions are given.

 

At this point, taking away lighters and matches cause no problems for safety, even if you believe the idea stinks.:)

 

Re: Double Jeopardy - maybe we could finally get OJ Simpson back to trial:D

[trots]

We just had some folks from our DC office in town yesterday and they mentioned that their matches, which were in their checked luggage, were confiscated by TSA (not sure if they flew out of DCA or IAD). We were all surprised because it was my understanding that matches are allowed. Again, this was in their checked lugagge, so maybe they're still OK in carry-ons?

That is correct. According to the "Permitted and Prohibited Items List" on the TSA's website:

Beginning April 14, 2005, all lighters will be prohibited as carry-on items. Up to four (4) books of safety matches are permitted as carry-on only. Lighters and Matches are always prohibited in checked baggage.

[peterv]

Northender,

 

What would I suggest that they do, how about acting normal?

 

The US government is desperate to make you feel insecure, that way they can pass all of these rules and laws that nullify your individual rights.

 

All of these inane security checks do nothing to enhance security. Perhaps they should just go back to looking for guns and explosives. You know, the rest of the flying world do not impose these kind of searches when flying, and it is just as safe as ever.

 

As I stated before, securing the cockpit and not appeasing the hijackers is what counts, nothing else.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[spongerob]

Peter, that's taking it a little too far. This is nothing more than an anti-smoking measure disguised as security. You can't even get paper matches at the airport when you get off a plane, though they'll still sell you cigarettes.

 

I agree with your comments about what passengers will do if faced with a grave situation though. We were told for years to sit and do nothing. That rule has definitely changed.

[Greyhound3]

This is nothing more than an anti-smoking measure disguised as security.

 

TA DA!!! Give the man a cigar (and a match to light it!).

 

That's exactly what Dorgan and Wyden (the two idiot Senators who added this to the Terrorism Bill) had in mind, despite their protests to the contrary. Both of these Senators have a long record of anti-smoking legislation.

 

Again, folks - write or call your Senators and demand an end to this ridiculous policy - that is the only way it will be changed.

 

I agree with your comments about what passengers will do if faced with a grave situation though. We were told for years to sit and do nothing. That rule has definitely changed.

 

As has already been proven in more than one instance...