Parents, Please control your kids!!!!!

[TigerMom]

A smack on the behind is hardly physically abusing your child.

 

 

 

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/child+abuse

child abuse

 

The deliberate injury of a child. Child abuse can take several forms: neglect (including failure to provide adequate shelter, food, or medical treatment), physical abuse (including beating and poisoning), emotional abuse (including verbal abuse), and sexual abuse. In practice, a child is often subject to more than one form of abuse. In 1994, 1,271 children died from child abuse in the UK; over 80% were under five and nearly 50% under one. Child abuse has only been recognized as a serious problem since the 1960s but is now a major area of health, welfare, and legal practice. The protection of children from abuse ranks as a top priority in social work.

 

Neglect accounts for nearly half of the reported cases of abuse; physical abuse 25%; emotional abuse 3%. While the sexual abuse of children by adults accounts for only about 10% of cases, it receives the most attention. Child sexual abuse may take many forms: exposure (viewing of sexual acts, pornography, and exhibitionism), molestation (fondling of either the child's or the adult's genitals), sexual intercourse, and rape. Sexual abuse takes place most commonly within the family although it also occurs with neighbours and acquaintances of the child, as well as with complete strangers. An increasing number of cases are being investigated, and an increasing number of adults are now reporting that they were abused in childhood.

 

Physical child abuse is physical injury inflicted upon the child with cruel and/or malicious intent. Physical abuse can be the result of punching, beating, kicking, biting, burning, shaking, or otherwise harming a child physically.

[Running_Dad]

The kids I see on cruise ships MOST out of control are the ones with the touchy feeley, new age parents dead set against disciplining their children in any real or meaningful way.

 

 

You came to this conclusion because the parents chose not to humiliate their kids by slapping them in front the other passengers on the Lido deck or in the dining room?

 

Question - What's worse than spanking your kid?

 

Answer - Spanking them in public and heaping on public humiliation in addition to the physical abuse.

 

Next time you feel like hitting your kid. Count to 10 and I bet you'll come up with a better solution.

 

 

Pat

Running Dad

[halos]

The kids I see on cruise ships MOST out of control are the ones with the touchy feeley, new age parents dead set against disciplining their children in any real or meaningful way. These parents have NO control over their children and are a blight on vacationers and a disgrace to us hard working parents in general. Jusy MHO of course

 

 

OOooohhhhhh.

I'm with you on this, I swear. I agree with you 100%, but I take offense at the 'new age' thing. Please don't equate 'new age' with parents who don't discipline their kids.

 

I know spanking is a touchy subject and rightly so. But there were instances when mine were spanked. Now that they are older, I'm not sure how I feel, but I do know that in certain instances...all the non physical methods would have not worked as well.

For example instances when my children were about to do something I felt very dangerous..running out into the street...sticking a toy in an electrical socket...going near the stove or fireplace....in those instances, there was NO way I was trusting one of those sweet 'time outs'. Swift, definite, negative response to these actions was what I felt apporopriate. A smack on the behind is less abusive than a nasty burn or electric shock any day in my book....but to each his own.

[k9hndler]

You came to this conclusion because the parents chose not to humiliate their kids by slapping them in front the other passengers on the Lido deck or in the dining room?

 

Question - What's worse than spanking your kid?

 

Answer - Spanking them in public and heaping on public humiliation in addition to the physical abuse.

 

Next time you feel like hitting your kid. Count to 10 and I bet you'll come up with a better solution.

 

 

Pat

 

Running Dad

No, Like many here, I base my conclusion on watching over and over again, on cruise ships and else where, the in-effective, mamby- pamby and annoying parenting techniques utilized by "Parents" who have no control over their children in public or private. What people detest most about out of control kids is not the kids, they are EXPECTED to try their hand. It's the lack of initiative shown by parents and a willingness to give up their RESPONSIBILITY to raise well disciplined and productive members of society. It is our OBLIGATION as parents to Discipline our children when needed, in any method that is effective, and in a consistent and loving manner. The "No spanking" folks I have observed USUALLY fit into the former category, not the latter. By the way, I never discipline my kids in public, I take them to a private area, explain again the infraction, discipline them and then hug them and assure them they are well loved.

 

Discipline is not abuse Pat. Raising kids without discipline, and as a result, no SELF discipline, is a far greater abuse to those very kids.

[k9hndler]

OOooohhhhhh.

I'm with you on this, I swear. I agree with you 100 %, but I take offense at the 'new age' thing. Please don't equate 'new age' with parents who don't discipline their kids.

 

I stand corrected Halo. Maybe some of the new-agers DO discipline thier kids.

[WrenchHeadCruiser]

You came to this conclusion because the parents chose not to humiliate their kids by slapping them in front the other passengers on the Lido deck or in the dining room?

 

Question - What's worse than spanking your kid?

 

Answer - Spanking them in public and heaping on public humiliation in addition to the physical abuse.

 

Next time you feel like hitting your kid. Count to 10 and I bet you'll come up with a better solution.

 

 

Pat

Running Dad

 

 

This thread is full of opinions on how and what is the RIGHT way to discipline your children. I for one feel that each case requires the appropriate response by the parents. In some cases I feel a spank on the behind is just that... the appropriate response. It has become something it was not meant to be... a discussion on what methods to use when disciplining your children. What seems to have gotten lost here IMO is the OP's point... Discipline your children when they are misbehaving, don’t just sit there and allow them to disrupt others. They are your children and therefore your responsibility. When they misbehave and annoy other cruisers, shoppers, etc., having the parents of these children ignore the behavior is just another slap in the face.

 

 

We could all sit here and debate the usefulness of spanking... I for one think our parents knew better. After one good smack on the butt, my Dad only needed to look my direction with those eyes and I would snap to attention. I am no worse for it, and feel I am by far better for it. The methods used to discipline children will be debated until the end of time. But the point here is Do It! Don’t ignore bad behavior because "Were all on vacation" or "It's so cute'. Discipline your children in whatever method you feel works for you...

Just Do It!

[DiaDeGuadalupe]

This thread is full of opinions on how and what is the RIGHT way to discipline your children. I for one feel that each case requires the appropriate response by the parents. In some cases I feel a spank on the behind is just that... the appropriate response. It has become something it was not meant to be... a discussion on what methods to use when disciplining your children. What seems to have gotten lost here IMO is the OP's point... Discipline your children when they are misbehaving, don’t just sit there and allow them to disrupt others. They are your children and therefore your responsibility. When they misbehave and annoy other cruisers, shoppers, etc., having the parents of these children ignore the behavior is just another slap in the face.

 

Exactly, WrenchHead. I think that in many cases, the "follow through" is thrown out the window. Kids aren't stupid so they continue with the behaviors. I'm not saying beat the crap out of your kids in public, but it sickens me to see so many parents in public places who will weakly say stuff like, "Now Johnny, if you don't stop that, you won't get X", and little Johnny looks at them with that "yeah RIGHT" face and keeps on doing what he's doing. Where are the consequences when Johnny's parents see this and do nothing? I can't imagine what it's like at home for these people.

 

My kids aren't perfect (whose are?) but they know that if they act up, there will be a price to pay, whether it be priveleges taken away, or even the occasional smack on the butt (as in the example that Halos posted - my daughter is a daredevil so yes, I'd rather have her suffer a sore hiney than broken bones from falling after climbing the entertainment center).

[Running_Dad]

It is our OBLIGATION as parents to Discipline our children when needed, in any method that is effective, and in a consistent and loving manner.

 

Please explain to me the loving part about being slapped. I just can't seem to grasp it:confused: .

 

Sorry.

[k9hndler]

Please explain to me the loving part about being slapped. I just can't seem to grasp it:confused: .

 

Sorry.

 

 

Pat

You won't grasp what you refuse to consider. Obviously, your mind is completly closed on the subect of spanking in a children's discipline. Can we agree on this point; Permissive parents who do not properly discipline thier kids do them a HUGE dis-service and set them up for failure throughout their lives? Kids thrive in an environment of consistent and yes LOVING discipline. Kids need and appreciate boundaries, and it's our job as parents to set up those boundaries and enforce them. A spank on the bottom is not a "Slap" or "Abuse" or any other trigger word you use, whether you approve of it as discipline or not. As I stated before, use whatever form of discipline that works for you and your child, but DO it and DO IT consistently. JMHO

[caviargal]

Taking this back to Carnival cruise ships. This is a vacation, everything is very loud and big. You will not notice most "unruly kids". I was panicked before my first cruise on the Carnival last year. I worked with my two boys on manners and probably ruined their anticipation of the trip with all my stern warnings. But once on board, I realized they could act like kids and no one would notice. The dining room is so loud and big. So many people are walking back and forth that no one notices when kids whine, goof off too loudly or got up to pick up their fallen napkin once too often. This isn't fine dining, its banquet dining.

 

I totally disagree with this and think this is part of the problem. The parents think this behavior is to be tolerated because of the environment. I do not have kids and do not wish to be subjected to the behavior of others who can justify the actions of their children.

 

I really wish the cruise lines would offer an adults only dining room since we cannot seem to get adults only cruises on a regular basis. If my table was in the vicinity of loud or poorly mannered children, I would immediately demand to be moved, just as I do at home in a restaurant. I will not have a nice evening spoiled by someone else's spoiled kids.

[ladycaveat]

Running Dad . . . I totally agree with you regarding striking our kids in any way, shape or form. I remember something that happened over twenty years ago and it still makes me so sad. My son must have been about six or seven. We had just gotten a seven week old Golden Retriever puppy and one afternoon, my little boy was in the back yard (without a fence) playing with the puppy one minute and the next . . . both were gone. I yelled for them but they were . . . gone. About fifteen frantic minutes later . . . he came back carrying the puppy. I was so angry, I actually turned him over my knee and must have struck him two or three times on the butt for leaving the yard without permission. Through his gulps, sobs and tears, he told me the puppy had run away . . . chasing a squirrel and he ran after her. I told him he should have told Mommy so she could go after the puppy but I felt like the biggest jerk in the world. My son was so upset and to this day I don't know if it was because he thought the puppy was lost forever or if it was because it was the first and only time I had paddled him. I think it was the latter and twenty plus years later . . . I still can't believe I did it . . . :(

[Running_Dad]

Pat

Kids thrive in an environment of consistent and yes LOVING discipline. Kids need and appreciate boundaries, and it's our job as parents to set up those boundaries and enforce them. A spank on the bottom is not a "Slap" or "Abuse" or any other trigger word you use, whether you approve of it as discipline or not. JMHO

 

Stop spewing the same rhetoric and answer the question.

 

What is the "loving" part of being slapped by your parent? Do you actually think a child feels "love" when he is slapped by his mother or father? Don't think so. Does a woman feel loved when her abusive husband hits her? Don't think so.

 

Sorry but physical abuse is not "loving" under any circumstances.

 

 

Pat

Running Dad

[futaba951]

Yeah, nothing says "I love you" quite like physically abusing your child.

 

In my opinion the only reason a parent would strike their child is because they lack the patience, verbal skills or mental acumen to deal with the child in a mature, loving and supportive manner.

 

I couldn't imagine raising my hand and striking my child.

 

 

Pat

Running Dad

 

I was spanked as a child and certainly do not feel abused in any way. I spanked my two sons when they needed it and I doubt they feel abused. In fact they are 17 and 20 now and have grown up to be well adjusted, polite, considerate industrious, hard working young men I am very proud of. Did I make mistakes as a parent? Absolutely. Did I do a good job of raising them? I believe so. I just hope your children turn out as well as mine. I've seen alot of little demons and hellions running around because their parents were afraid to lay down the law and make them pay the price if they refused. I hope for your sake that's not your kids.

[futaba951]

Stop spewing the same rhetoric and answer the question.

 

What is the "loving" part of being slapped by your parent? Do you actually think a child feels "love" when he is slapped by his mother or father? Don't think so. Does a woman feel loved when her abusive husband hits her? Don't think so.

 

Sorry but physical abuse is not "loving" under any circumstances.

 

 

Pat

Running Dad

 

 

Oh, please!!! Apples and oranges here. There's a HUGE difference between spanking your child and beating your wife. Again I hope for your sake those aren't your little hellions running amok. So tell us; what loving discipline do you use that works. You have thrown down about spanking, but have yet to share what (hopefully) works for you. Because I know mine worked. And worked well.

[GoinCruisin]

OMG! With that explanation, I would imagine about 80% of the population over the age of 20 (the birth of time-out :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) has been a victim of malicious child abuse at the hands of a spanker :eek: Guess now we are starting to see WHY children are more out of control these days, why Ritalin is one of the most popular drugs in the country, and the amount of children that actually have an ounce of respect is dwindling... I had 3 spankings in my lifetime... rembember them well, and thank my parents for them!!!! I knew I had to have done something really bad to get spanked!! My parents were not child abusers, that is completely absurd... There was a day and age where corporal punishment was so prevalent that schools did it. Today, parents are locked up for spanking (not abusing, there is a huge difference) their own children. Considering there is still a large percentage of parents that use spanking as discipline (rather than time out or the naughty chair :rolleyes: ), and most of us grew up and took our spankings, I really don't think anyone can call it child abuse. This certainly is not the place to be saying things like this about people you don't know... that is a VERY SERIOUS accusation and is completely inappropriate.

 

Child abuse is a very serious issue and should NOT be mentioned in the same sentence as legitimate discipline. In most of the polls over the years, 75% still use spanking as discipline, 50% of those people grew up and were not spanked... so spanking does not breed spanking. 4 out of 5 people that were spanked as a child say it was an effective form of discipline. Spanking is an effective form of discipline in younger children, and has been done for years, by really great parents!!!!! If it has to be done correctly, and the parent understands what they are doing and not in anger. It doesn't take a "beating or slapping" to be effective.

 

Any form of discipline (time-out, restriction, spanking), when used in anger, can skew a child's perception of justice and can harm their development emotionally. There is no evidence that a mild spanking to the butt results in aggressive behavior. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach the difference between abusive hitting and discipline by spanking. A parent that uses spanking as a last resort measure when all else fails for persistent bad behavior is NOT a child abuser!!!!!!!!

 

Parents can love their children and spank them. If a child is exhibiting persistent bad behavior and all you are worried about is if they can "feel the love", they are probably going to keep doing it.

[ihhk2]

Running Dad: While you think that your view is the ultimate in parental love, when it is not effective and your children do not behave, it is a disservice to society and, ultimately, your child who will not grow up with manners.

 

There was an email put out by a 40-something that has come to me more than once. Basically, it said, we were spanked and didn't need therapy. We didn't wear bike helmets and when we skinned our knees, we got back on the bike. We ate meat that thawed on the counter all day and didn't get botulism. Etc.

 

The POINT is that spanking and all the other things we grew up with didn't make us into "bad, tormented" adults. They didn't harm us long term, but suited the needs short term. If your kid doesn't listen to an adult (ANY adult) when he/she is misbehaving, perhaps swift, sure action in no uncertain terms IS necessary. It isn't "abuse", it is making a stern point that WILL be remembered. A kid who spends his/her childhood in 3-minute time outs is NOT going to consider that a stern, swift punishment if there is no discomfort involved. He/She is acclimated to it, and knows it will end in 180 seconds. Yeah, THAT's going to teach them!

 

Further, perhaps public humiliation of a quick swat on the bottom is WAY more effective than a private little time out! Embarrassment is a great deterrant for future infractions. And NO, the kid will NOT need 20 years of therapy to get over it. It will be a life lesson, hard won, but remembered! There are judges across the country who make people convicted of various crimes and misdemeanors publicly post their wrong doings as punishment. The adults don't scream "foul!". Nor should the brats. (Think bumper sticker that says "I was convicted of drunk driving and this is part of my sentence. You should be careful around me.")

 

To the person who thinks that CCL ships are "loud" anyways, and that means his/her kids can disrupt, you better hope and pray your brat is not running down MY hallway at 3PM, 3AM or any other time! On vacation, people sleep at various times. They nap, because they CAN, when they can't during day-to-day life. They are TRYING to relax at hours YOU might not want to. What the *&^% makes you think that your kids are allowed to disrupt that just because you think the ships are "loud"???

 

How would you like me to cause disruption in YOUR hallway when YOU are trying to relax or sleep or just wind down? Hours of the day are IRRELEVANT on vacation. EVERYONE should be able to enjoy their cabin in peace and quiet at WHATEVER HOUR THEY CHOOSE, without your little hellion running up and down the halls screaming. You are ignorant at best if you think you have a reasonable argument for allowing your brats to run wild at whatever hour they choose.

 

Also, just because there is activity in the dining room (which IS fine dining... with crystal, china, silver and linens) does NOT mean that children should be able to be disruptive. Where, exactly, do you get off thinking that just because it is "organized" fine dining ("banquet dining" was your reference, I believe) makes it akin to McDonalds, where kids are allowed to be kids? Every single wedding I've been to has been "banquet dining". Does that mean your kids have no responsibility to behave JUST because of the organization in a formal atmosphere? Would you allow your brat to behave abominably at a wedding with banquet service? What if a band is playing and the atmosphere is "loud"? Should your brat be allowed to be ignroant of the enjoyment of others? If so, you are a horrendous example of a parent.

 

If I am peacefully enjoying a beverage, snack and book on the Lido Deck, does the "loud" nature of the deck mean that your brat can come screaming through, soaking wet and splashing me with fresh salt water, ruining my book, beverage and snack? NOPE! He/She will be chased down, you WILL be found and you WILL be held accountable.

 

And don't tell me not to "touch" your kid. If your kid needs to be contained until you take responsibility, so be it. He/she can scream abuse all he/she wants, but in the end, it will have been your brat abusing MY vacation in the first place. I have NO PROBLEM containing a child whose parents are irresponsible enough to let the little angel ruin my day. Sue me. I won't hurt your kid.... but I WILL make responsibility become reality. So sadly, it is fantasy with many.

 

"Kids will be kids" is NOT AN EXCUSE. If they can't handle good manners in public ALL THE TIME, they should be home with Grandma and Grandpa or other responsible adults. You KNOW how your kids behave! DON'T put them in a situation where they will ruin MY vacation, because I GUARANTEE that your vacation will be hell if they do!

 

Again, ADULTS trump brats every single time. Your brats are unwelcome in disrupting my hard earned vacation, and I EXPECT you to make sure the first infraction is the absolute last. At 1PM on the Lido Deck, at 3PM in my cabin, and at 3AM in the lobby. Your kid does NOT have priority over my hard-earned and anticipated vacation.

 

PERIOD.

[GoinCruisin]

For example instances when my children were about to do something I felt very dangerous..running out into the street...sticking a toy in an electrical socket...going near the stove or fireplace....in those instances, there was NO way I was trusting one of those sweet 'time outs'. Swift, definite, negative response to these actions was what I felt apporopriate. A smack on the behind is less abusive than a nasty burn or electric shock any day in my book....but to each his own.

 

Halos, those are the times when spanking is most effective, as you are doing it out of love and to teach them what is bad or harmful behavior. Spanking is most effective for 18 mos - 6 years old, as this is when children are learning... and time out is not going to be effective enough to keep a child from running out in the street and getting hit by a car, not going to be effective for a child to reach up and pull something from the stove burning themselves, not going to be effective for a child that wants to touch the hot grill... a spanking done correctly lets a child know that the behavior is bad, and if combined with talking to the child and explaining what can come from the behavior, it is effective and you are helping to aid the safety of your child. For normal everyday bad behavior, there are far more effective disciplines (even time out...) but too many parents replaced a spanking with time out for everything... if a child knows that his persistent bad behavior will only get him time out or loss of toys, what is that teaching them? When they want a break, they can behave badly... if they know the consequence could be a spanking, they may think twice. Since the "spare the rod" campaigns, we are hearing of ADD and ADHD and throwing kids on DRUGS!!!! Just makes no sense to me. A combination of discipline is proven effective... If you put a child in timeout for hitting his brother, and timeout for running into the street... they are going to think that these two actions are on the same level...

[MERVYN BREMMER]

ihhk2 don't hold back tell us how you really feel.....by the way I totally agree with you

[bluehorizonlover123]

I guess I have been lucky but usually I don't see unruly kids on my cruises and I have been on 11 of them.

[hstrybuf]

If they wanted to race down the hall when we were walking to the elevator I let them. Nobody hears it at 3:00p in the afternoon.

 

Don't be so sure. If I'm napping, for whatever reason at 3 in the afternoon and your children come pounding down the hall, I'll hear them. I hope the little dears don't trip over a sudden obstacle. :rolleyes:

 

As for the spanking issue, I was raised in the old school and have never agreed with the idea that talking is always going to be the best method to deal with unruly children. I had the rare spankings when I was growing up as did my own children. Neither I nor my now adult children were abused and none of us have needed therapy as a result. :rolleyes: There are a variety of methods out there. We used whatever was best for the situation. Action speaks louder than words sometimes.

[k9hndler]

Stop spewing the same rhetoric and answer the question.

 

What is the "loving" part of being slapped by your parent? Do you actually think a child feels "love" when he is slapped by his mother or father? Don't think so. Does a woman feel loved when her abusive husband hits her? Don't think so.

 

Sorry but physical abuse is not "loving" under any circumstances.

 

 

Pat

Running Dad

 

Hmmmmm....The whole spanking is "Abuse" argument of yours Pat is a bit defensive and seemingly obsessive in nature. Obviously a very sore subject for you Pat. Makes the detective in me wonder how a person gets to be so locked in, inflexible and obstinate on the matter. Especially in the face of SO MANY detractors. You never did answer the question as to your superior discipline methods for your children. We are all ears.

[ihhk2]

Mervyn: Believe it or not, that was MILD compared to the venom I have had to use on ships. I have a great stockpile of said venom for ANY disruptive child and their wimpy parents who don't know how to control them. There isn't an excuse in the world good enough for allowing kids to be disruptive on MY vacation.

 

Not even "conditions" such as ADHD. Parents should NOT be allowing poor behavior, no matter what. And if ADHD makes them intolerable in public, then they should be at home until they learn to behave! MY vacation is NOT to be used as a science lab to see if precious little Johnny/Janie can finally behave in public.

 

Further, to those of you who change your location to get away from the brats, I would strongly suggest to management that the KIDS be forced to move. They are, after all, the problem. You shouldn't have to inconvenience yourself, but the parents should be wildly inconvenienced for their poor decisions in child rearing.

 

(I can almost hear it now... "It's THEIR vacation, too!" Perhaps, but that doesn't give them license to ruin mine with their atrocious behavior. They can enjoy their vacation all they want without being disruptive.)

 

I'm glad you agree with me. No one is so superior to me that they can demand that my tolerance level be escalated because they suck at parenting.

[GoinCruisin]

Anyone want to place bets on how long it will be before the "drunken adults are worse" argument is raised? It ALWAYS is... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Much easier to try to use a diversion :rolleyes:

[ihhk2]

At least the drunken adults eventually pass out, where the brats seem to have enormous amounts of "energy" 24/7.

 

Also, the drunken adults most certainly get their punishment in the form of a hangover. And it's probably FAR more uncomfortable for a FAR longer amount of time than a swift swat on the behind!

[SMigly]

Our local paper had an article a few months back, "Spanking is not Abuse" apparently the state legislature took this up because so many parents were confused on the issue. While I like time out and taking away things as a first step, if my child is doing something that will hurt them self or someone else I will and have spanked them. We as a family often talk about what is acceptible behavior and what situations to avoid. Role play what if someone offered you a pill, etc. My children are not angels and will have moments of bad judgement but I can assure you they won't ruin anyones vacation except maybe mine as we can always stay in the cabin and order room service.