Another Carnival lawsuit

[lotusbogardi]

This article details medical interventions from the point of view of a lay observer. The article states the nurse packed the wound with gauze and then wrapped it with an ace bandage. This was most likely a pressure dressing, meant to keep pressure on the wound and hopefully keeping the blood inside the body. This didn't work. I don't blame the nurse for that. A severed artery is hard to staunch.

 

The nurse had an ace bandage. Therefore, she could have used it to tie the arm instead of wrapping it.

The first day of First Aid in 8th grade health, we learned how to tie a tourniquet. How did it not occur to the nurse to do one?

 

She had the materials to make one, she just didn't.

 

It is no longer en vogue to make a tourniquet. It is currently considered outside a RN's scope of practice to apply them. They are no longer being taught in first aid classes. Tourniquets, except in very specific applications under direct MD supervision are no longer used. In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

[peptobysmol]

Face Value: Carnival responders/nurse botched this.

Hidden Value: We don't know what really happened.

Result: Carnival will probably settle and we'll never know. If it goes to court she'll have her character assassinated and Carnival will lose alot of money because its a "big" faceless corporation that people (the jury) don't mind taking money from like its a big ATM regardless of fault.

[lotusbogardi]

Has anyone investigated if this was a attack by the boyfriend that he tried to cover up as an accident?

 

The reason I ask is ... why would anyone need to wait for a nurse to stop the bleeding?

 

Why didn't he?

 

Reading the article, it sounds like he did the best he knew how. He got a towel and wrapped it around the arm. Arterial injuries spurt blood outward with every heartbeat. I doubt a towel, or a pressure dressing or even immediate surgery would have saved this poor woman.

[larkz]

Sounds like a 50/50 case to me. Carnival would have been wise to have settled before it was widely publicized, because they don't come off looking very good in this situation.

 

I don't have a lot of empathy for stupid, drunken behavior. Nor for a company aggressively pumping alcohol into passengers for the sake of the bottom line.

 

Both parties bear responsibility.

[jonbgd]

In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

 

Im not disagreeing with you but If the choices are cardiac arrest or amputation???? ;)

[mamaskittles]

This article details medical interventions from the point of view of a lay observer. The article states the nurse packed the wound with gauze and then wrapped it with an ace bandage. This was most likely a pressure dressing, meant to keep pressure on the wound and hopefully keeping the blood inside the body. This didn't work. I don't blame the nurse for that. A severed artery is hard to staunch.

 

 

 

It is no longer en vogue to make a tourniquet. It is currently considered outside a RN's scope of practice to apply them. They are no longer being taught in first aid classes. Tourniquets, except in very specific applications under direct MD supervision are no longer used. In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

Let me preface by saying I think you are FABULOUS :D, But I do have one objection to your post.

 

Tourniquets, except in very specific applications under direct MD supervision are no longer used. In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

I know I have read this before but....

I think her kids would prefer a Mom with one arm to what they have now.

[sharecruises]

This article details medical interventions from the point of view of a lay observer. The article states the nurse packed the wound with gauze and then wrapped it with an ace bandage. This was most likely a pressure dressing, meant to keep pressure on the wound and hopefully keeping the blood inside the body. This didn't work. I don't blame the nurse for that. A severed artery is hard to staunch.

 

 

 

It is no longer en vogue to make a tourniquet. It is currently considered outside a RN's scope of practice to apply them. They are no longer being taught in first aid classes. Tourniquets, except in very specific applications under direct MD supervision are no longer used. In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

There are most likely 2..or more...sides to this story

 

I seriously doubt they had a "canoe">> I agree it was probably some sort of "ship stretcher" usable at sea or on the ship itself. I don't think they carry a canoe down the hall

 

The family of course is trying to whitewash the whole sad affair...seems Carnival did try to stop her from drinking but she went on ahead and drank.

 

The real truth is : things happen on land and on sea. Tragedies occur on land, in my town, in yours. A lady who 6 degrees of separation connect to has gone "missing" where I live...but maybe she walked away (seems video supports that)...we have flyers up for her, I ran her flyer to my social network.

 

Things happen but when they happen on a ship they get a lot more attention. There really are few "missing" people on ships....they either jumped, suicide or they (more rarely but happens) were murdered, by a "loved" one.

 

I have yet to hear of a case of a homicidial maniac stalker serial killer on a ship...the few murders were by spouses/lovers.

 

There are also some true shark lawyers swimming around here...waiting to jump on any cruise story. If this lady had fallen in her house and cut her arm and bled out no one might have even found her.

 

But let things happen on a ship and wow....the media loves it, people who don't cruise love it

 

Face it : Carnival will have to pad the hallways....install 8 foot railings to stop jumpers...put big safety nets around the whole ship....put rubber baby buggy bumpers everywhere....they can now get rid of the glass glasses in the cabins....plastic glasses (maybe bring back the plastic hurricane glasses to delight people)....they can staff a whole hospital wing on the ship since some people want to use the ship as a nursing home, rehab or whatever.....

 

of course the fares will go up, and it won't be fun to sit on a screened in balcony

It might be fun to bounce around rubber padded halls <:D>

[kayhold]

This article details medical interventions from the point of view of a lay observer. The article states the nurse packed the wound with gauze and then wrapped it with an ace bandage. This was most likely a pressure dressing, meant to keep pressure on the wound and hopefully keeping the blood inside the body. This didn't work. I don't blame the nurse for that. A severed artery is hard to staunch.

 

It is no longer en vogue to make a tourniquet. It is currently considered outside a RN's scope of practice to apply them. They are no longer being taught in first aid classes. Tourniquets, except in very specific applications under direct MD supervision are no longer used. In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

 

I was pretty sure they were back to being okay and recommended, according to the American Heart Assoc. As of 2010, they are back in First Aid training guidelines.

 

Even if it was outside the scope of the RN - the Dr should have been called. I don't know why the Dr didn't go up there, anyway. I would think its protocol for the Dr to be summoned in an emergency situation.

 

The woman was transported 30 minutes after the nurse arrived - the Dr had time to make it there. (according to the article)

 

It recommends pressure first, then use of a tourniquet. Even if an amputation was required, she would be alive.

[divingmedic]

This article details medical interventions from the point of view of a lay observer. The article states the nurse packed the wound with gauze and then wrapped it with an ace bandage. This was most likely a pressure dressing, meant to keep pressure on the wound and hopefully keeping the blood inside the body. This didn't work. I don't blame the nurse for that. A severed artery is hard to staunch.

 

 

 

It is no longer en vogue to make a tourniquet. It is currently considered outside a RN's scope of practice to apply them. They are no longer being taught in first aid classes. Tourniquets, except in very specific applications under direct MD supervision are no longer used. In the field they are quite often misapplied and almost always result in amputation.

Actually tourniquets are making a very large comeback. I know when I did my flight medic training in USAF in 1980 they were the thing. Later then went away. Now after Iraq and Afghanistan they are back again after proving that they save lives and they even save limbs. Besides working in EMS for 32 years I have also been teaching it for the last 10 years. 3 years ago we started teaching tourniquets in for bleeding control and shock management. it is taught in ITLS and PHTLS also.

[divingmedic]

I was pretty sure they were back to being okay and recommended, according to the American Heart Assoc. As of 2010, they are back in First Aid training guidelines.

 

It recommends pressure first, then use of a tourniquet. Even if an amputation was required, she would be alive.

Correct, we went back to using them about 3 years ago. I teach it in my EMT class.

[lotusbogardi]

What I do find fault with Carnival, if it's true, is if the first responders had no medical training.

 

I haven't been on a ship yet, so please forgive me for assuming that there is only a general emergency number and not a seperate one for security type emergencies and a one for medical emergencies.

 

So, someone answers the phone and gets told "we need help in cabin 844" (or whatever) and then the person hangs up. It is not unreasonable to send two crew down to check it out. These two "not medically trained " crew probably are trained in first aid, CPR, and how to use an AED. They get there and notice all the blood and a towel wrapped around the wound. They know unwrapping it could make matters worse. The only thing they can do is get more qualified people on the scene and be ready to help out if things get worse. I don't fault them, or their dispatch, without more information.

[mikedw]

I would venture to say that Carnival probably gets several hundred lawsuits a month. Some relatives were on RCCL last year when her elderly mother fell and broke her arm. She was transported to the hospital when they got back to Miami and died. They attempted to sue RCCL over her medical care and it was thrown out almost immediately.

[divingmedic]

Thanks for the info.

 

There are most likely 2..or more...sides to this story

 

I seriously doubt they had a "canoe">> I agree it was probably some sort of "ship stretcher" usable at sea or on the ship itself. I don't think they carry a canoe down the hall

 

The family of course is trying to whitewash the whole sad affair...seems Carnival did try to stop her from drinking but she went on ahead and drank.

 

The real truth is : things happen on land and on sea. Tragedies occur on land, in my town, in yours. A lady who 6 degrees of separation connect to has gone "missing" where I live...but maybe she walked away (seems video supports that)...we have flyers up for her, I ran her flyer to my social network.

 

Things happen but when they happen on a ship they get a lot more attention. There really are few "missing" people on ships....they either jumped, suicide or they (more rarely but happens) were murdered, by a "loved" one.

 

I have yet to hear of a case of a homicidial maniac stalker serial killer on a ship...the few murders were by spouses/lovers.

 

There are also some true shark lawyers swimming around here...waiting to jump on any cruise story. If this lady had fallen in her house and cut her arm and bled out no one might have even found her.

 

But let things happen on a ship and wow....the media loves it, people who don't cruise love it

 

Face it : Carnival will have to pad the hallways....install 8 foot railings to stop jumpers...put big safety nets around the whole ship....put rubber baby buggy bumpers everywhere....they can now get rid of the glass glasses in the cabins....plastic glasses (maybe bring back the plastic hurricane glasses to delight people)....they can staff a whole hospital wing on the ship since some people want to use the ship as a nursing home, rehab or whatever.....

 

of course the fares will go up, and it won't be fun to sit on a screened in balcony

It might be fun to bounce around rubber padded halls <:D>

I partially agree with you. Carnival should have liability in the amount of alcohol she had consumed prior to the incident. What Carnival is liable for is their handling of the incident and possibly untimely or improper medical care.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, I dread having to deal with something like this on my cruise. I will in a second, but I am there to get away from dealing with things like this on a every day basis.:)

[lotusbogardi]

Im not disagreeing with you but If the choices are cardiac arrest or amputation???? ;)

 

Outside of the scope of practice means that #1 it's not being taught in nursing school, and #2 a nurse doing it without specific training/ certification can be personally sued and have her disciplinary action taken against her license.

 

Don't make it right, but it is what it is.

[divingmedic]

Outside of the scope of practice means that #1 it's not being taught in nursing school, and #2 a nurse doing it without specific training/ certification can be personally sued and have her disciplinary action taken against her license.

 

Don't make it right, but it is what it is.

Why would it be out of scope of practice for a RN when it is not for a Emt?

[lotusbogardi]

Actually tourniquets are making a very large comeback. I know when I did my flight medic training in USAF in 1980 they were the thing. Later then went away. Now after Iraq and Afghanistan they are back again after proving that they save lives and they even save limbs. Besides working in EMS for 32 years I have also been teaching it for the last 10 years. 3 years ago we started teaching tourniquets in for bleeding control and shock management. it is taught in ITLS and PHTLS also.

 

Then, I would say that s/he, like I, may be working under outdated information.

[Fireflymkz76]

when you have a lot of alcohol in your system your blood is thin, it could have caused her to bleed out faster. Plus the drugs. It is sad. She didn't eat a lot either so she would have gotten drunker faster. She fell and cut herself. I do think she holds a lot of the blame, but I also think carnival bears some responsibility.

 

When they say canoe are they talking about an actual canoe?? if so however would they expect one to fit in an elevator??

[kayhold]

Outside of the scope of practice means that #1 it's not being taught in nursing school, and #2 a nurse doing it without specific training/ certification can be personally sued and have her disciplinary action taken against her license.

 

Don't make it right, but it is what it is.

 

The Good Samaritan law would protect her depending on what laws the ship fall under, but again, the Dr should have made an appearance, period, as far as I am concerned.

 

There is no reason for someone to bleed for an hour when there is a Dr in close proximity.

[divingmedic]

when you have a lot of alcohol in your system your blood is thin, it could have caused her to bleed out faster. Plus the drugs. It is sad. She didn't eat a lot either so she would have gotten drunker faster. She fell and cut herself. I do think she holds a lot of the blame, but I also think carnival bears some responsibility.

 

When they say canoe are they talking about an actual canoe?? if so however would they expect one to fit in an elevator??

While alcohol does play a part in the clotting factor THC does not.

[Fireflymkz76]

While alcohol does play a part in the clotting factor THC does not.

 

true that. still bad for you though. what IF she had somehow smuggled on pot and smoked it that night so she was high and drunk both attributing to her falling.

[divingmedic]

The Good Samaritan law would protect her depending on what laws the ship fall under, but again, the Dr should have made an appearance, period, as far as I am concerned.

 

There is no reason for someone to bleed for an hour when there is a Dr in close proximity.

Actually it would fall more under International Maritime laws than it would Good Samaritan laws. I worked off shore in the Gulf in the early 90's and questioned this as I was not under protocols out there. I was given a booklet about the practice of medicine in international waters. Good reading if you have insomnia. :D

[mamaskittles]

There are most likely 2..or more...sides to this story

 

 

The family of course is trying to whitewash the whole sad affair...seems Carnival did try to stop her from drinking but she went on ahead and drank.

 

I am sure there are at least 3 sides to the story.

According to the article Carnival ENCOURAGED her to drink Her family tried to stop her.

 

A waiter brought a drink to Holcomb, who wasn’t a heavy drinker, so it took her a while to finish it. The traveler continued buying rounds until Holcomb had four beverages on the table before her. The pit boss objected to the number of drinks and took three from Holcomb, saying he’d give her another as she finished one, the lawsuit claims.

 

Ila Parish, Holcomb’s mother, was concerned, but the pit boss and dealer both said Holcomb “could handle them and that Parish should let her have some fun,” the lawsuit claims.

 

Who knows we weren't there. My only concern is that All cruise line security and medical personel should receive adequate training, and from what I read I am not so sure they do. I also do not always believe everything I read.

[divingmedic]

true that. still bad for you though. what IF she had somehow smuggled on pot and smoked it that night so she was high and drunk both attributing to her falling.

What the article lacks is what her THC level was. it gave the BAC but not the THC. She could have smoked the pot 3 days before she even boarded the ship and she would still test positive for it.

[kayhold]

true that. still bad for you though. what IF she had somehow smuggled on pot and smoked it that night so she was high and drunk both attributing to her falling.

 

To be fair, we don't know if she was legally using it, or not. Does anyone know where the woman resides? Not sure if she was from Texas, or just disembarked from there.

 

Just a thought.

[lotusbogardi]

Why would it be out of scope of practice for a RN when it is not for a Emt?

 

EMT and RN training is radically different. EMTs are problem driven. Nursing is process driven. There are nurse who then train to become EMTs, but very few every day RNs could do what an EMT does every single day, sometimes several times a day. God knows I couldn't. Even icu/ccu/er nurses don't break out the crash cart every day, and when they do, they have MD backup.

 

EMTs are soldiers. I got nothing but respect.