Cunard Captains

[realist]

A driving licence lets you drive any car. It not your personal ability or social skills that prevent it, and these people should not be judged on that basis.

 

They are all MASTER MARINERS. Their ability and social etiquete should not be in question wether they come from the Isle of Wight Ferry, a tanker or QM2.

 

When you are lucky enough, watch one of these huge ships turn in a very tight space. That is what they have trained to do.

[PRINSENDAM]

A driving licence lets you drive any car. It not your personal ability or social skills that prevent it, and these people should not be judged on that basis.

 

They are all MASTER MARINERS. Their ability and social etiquete should not be in question wether they come from the Isle of Wight Ferry, a tanker or QM2.

 

When you are lucky enough, watch one of these huge ships turn in a very tight space. That is what they have trained to do.

 

 

 

Ah! Common sense!

 

Stephen

 

Master Mariner

Certificate of Competency No. 7764

[sandramerle]

I already reported on this board that the Commadores wife told me that Captain Warner has NOT been demoted and that the Commadore, Captain Wright and Captain Warner were going to work on a rotation basis.Keep in mind we had dinner with Captain Warner and he is the nicest man with a wonderful personality, I think he certainly will be a credit to the ship.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Captain Warner has NOT been demoted

Just out of curiosity, if anything wouldn't being moved to QM2 be a promotion, not a demotion?

[guernseyguy]

Just out of curiosity, if anything wouldn't being moved to QM2 be a promotion, not a demotion?

 

Doug,

 

If you follow that logic, the corollary would be that moving from the QM2 would be a demotion....which has been discussed, at some length, already. So, no, I would not say it was a 'promotion' - a prestigious command certainly, but not a 'promotion'.

 

Peter

[carlmm]

It is a promotion. Of course IMHO, and some fellow cruise critics have a different one.

 

Let's try to explain it this time with an analogy: DaimlerChrysler (like Carnival)is the owner of several companies and brands. These have different reputations and carry different levels of prestige.

If you are top manager of Smart or Dodge and become top manager with Mercedes-Benz this is certainly a promotion. If you are CEO of Mercedes-Benz and become CEO of one of the less reputated brands you are demoted.

[guernseyguy]

If you are top manager of Smart or Dodge and become top manager with Mercedes-Benz this is certainly a promotion. If you are CEO of Mercedes-Benz and become CEO of one of the less reputated brands you are demoted.

 

Carlmm, having worked for many years in fast moving consumer goods, while some brands were more 'fun' than others, there were no doubt within the organization which were the most prestigious - those with the highest turnover (thats capitalism for you...) so on that basis, Carnival would be top of the heap, followed by Princess, HAL, Costa, P&O.....with Cunard near the bottom of the heap......

 

Peter

[carlmm]

having worked for many years in fast moving consumer goods, while some brands were more 'fun' than others, there were no doubt within the organization which were the most prestigious - those with the highest turnover (thats capitalism for you...) so on that basis, Carnival would be top of the heap, followed by Princess, HAL, Costa, P&O.....with Cunard near the bottom of the heap......

 

Prestige is not always measured by turnover.

How about, another example, Concord pilots? These were, if you can belive them, the most reputated pilots. Concords contributions to turnover and profit, if any, were neglectable.

Or why do some people forego income to work for small, less paying, but highly reputated e.g. scientific or humanitarian organisations?

Reputation can be grounded on so much more reasons than sole money.

 

One reason migth of course be to be Captain of the longest, widest etc. ship, which would be right now the QM2, a, so I am told, Cunard liner.

[dougnewmanatsea]

If you follow that logic, the corollary would be that moving from the QM2 would be a demotion....

Well, this is why I said "if anything".

 

IMHO, it would be neither a promotion nor a demotion, but while I can see why some might think it a promotion, I certainly can't see why anyone would think of it as a demotion.

[PRINSENDAM]

One reason migth of course be to be Captain of the longest, widest etc. ship, which would be right now the QM2, a, so I am told, Cunard liner.

 

 

Carl,

 

Longest, widest etc ship in the world? It isn't the QM2.

 

It is in fact the 565,000 DWT "Jahre Viking"which at 1,503 feet in length and 226 feet in beam.. with a draught of around 80 feet makes the 1132' x 135' QM2 look a wee bit 'small' In fact QM2 is just about the size of the current breed of large, fast 8,500 TEU container ships in operation around the world.

 

Stephen

[Richard Schmidt]

A driving licence lets you drive any car. It not your personal ability or social skills that prevent it, and these people should not be judged on that basis.

 

They are all MASTER MARINERS. Their ability and social etiquete should not be in question wether they come from the Isle of Wight Ferry, a tanker or QM2.

 

When you are lucky enough, watch one of these huge ships turn in a very tight space. That is what they have trained to do.

 

Maybe so. Then again, no one pays considerable sums of money to ride with you in your car, unless of course you are an Iraqi cab driver with advanced knowledge of the location of the next car bombing.

 

Loyalty to a particular ship, and even more so a particular Captain, has been a factor in a passenger's choice of vessels on the trans-atlantic run for over one hundred years. If I want an impersonal, faceless, "Get-you-from-Point-A-to-Point-B" Captain, I'll fly coach on the next red-eye out of L.A. There is more to being a Cunard Captain than expertise in seamanship, though that is paramount. Quasimodo was a great bell- ringer and a decent chap. He would have fared poorly, however, at a soiree at Court.

[guernseyguy]

Prestige is not always measured by turnover.

 

True, in many fields, but not in (Anglo-)American multinationals. On the job market I suspect there is not that much demand for Atlantic ferry captains....whatever posters to this board think.

 

Peter

[guernseyguy]

Loyalty to a particular ship, and even more so a particular Captain, has been a factor in a passenger's choice of vessels on the trans-atlantic run for over one hundred years.

 

Certainly true, Richard, for a minority. But now its down to one ship, possibly no longer so important. And since you can no longer sail with a captain of your choice, am I to presume you will be taking the red-eye?

 

Peter

[PRINSENDAM]

 

If I want an impersonal, faceless, "Get-you-from-Point-A-to-Point-B" Captain, I'll fly coach on the next red-eye out of L.A. There is more to being a Cunard Captain than expertise in seamanship, QUOTE]

 

 

Richard,

 

What on earth makes you think that any captain that has not served at least 10,000 crossings on a Cunarder on the North Atlantic is an "impersonal, faceless, "Get-you-from-Point-A-to-Point-B" Captain." ?

 

If you think for a single instant that there has never been a 'social outcast' in command of a Cunarder you would be sorely mistaken!

 

What I find alarming is your attitude towards every master or officer who does not happen to work for the Cunard Line. You are probably quite right that not all seafarers are equal . Some of the best seafarers in the world have never put a fooot aboard a Cunarder!

 

Stephen

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

> Loyalty to a particular ship, and even more so a particular Captain, has been a factor in a passenger's choice of vessels on the trans-atlantic run for over one hundred years.

 

Some people chose to cross with Captain Smith.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

[KenC]

Prestige is not always measured by turnover.

How about, another example, Concord pilots? These were, if you can belive them, the most reputated pilots. Concords contributions to turnover and profit, if any, were neglectable..........One reason migth of course be to be Captain of the longest, widest etc. ship, which would be right now the QM2, a, so I am told, Cunard liner.

 

So that's it - snob appeal!! There is supposedly more snob appeal (sorry prestige) in being associated with Cunard. Because as we know, you have to be a Cunard Captain all your life otherwise you may end up with the social grace of Quasimodo!

 

I thought this sort of snobbery disappeared years ago - sadly not. Can't believe I'm reading it again on this thread. I'm sure the captains involved would be embarrassed to the nth degree if they were aware of the comments being made on their behalf.

 

Ken

[ciaobella]

We met Captain Warner, and he is truly delightful! Cunard chose an outstanding person to be at the helm of the QM2. All of you who sail with him will enjoy him!

[realist]

Would that be a trans Atlantic Ferry? back and forth between NY and Southampton.

 

I wonder, do people book flights on the basis of the guy flying it?

[PRINSENDAM]

[quote name=.

 

Some people chose to cross with Captain Smith.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.[/quote]

 

 

 

Stoneyard Stephen:

 

Good one! ;)

 

 

Sydney Stephen.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Some people chose to cross with Captain Smith.

Good one Stephen!

[CGT]

People care because the QM2 and the concept of the QM2 is unique. Having just a handful of captains sail the QM2, where you know them by name, and each one captains the ship with their own distinct personality, is also part of the QM2 experience.

 

On Princess, the captains just rotate in and rotate out, no big deal, you don't know who your captain is going to be this week or next month and you don't care.

[Richard Schmidt]

 

If I want an impersonal, faceless, "Get-you-from-Point-A-to-Point-B" Captain, I'll fly coach on the next red-eye out of L.A. There is more to being a Cunard Captain than expertise in seamanship, QUOTE]

 

 

Richard,

 

What on earth makes you think that any captain that has not served at least 10,000 crossings on a Cunarder on the North Atlantic is an "impersonal, faceless, "Get-you-from-Point-A-to-Point-B" Captain." ?

 

If you think for a single instant that there has never been a 'social outcast' in command of a Cunarder you would be sorely mistaken!

 

What I find alarming is your attitude towards every master or officer who does not happen to work for the Cunard Line. You are probably quite right that not all seafarers are equal . Some of the best seafarers in the world have never put a fooot aboard a Cunarder!

 

Stephen

 

I am sure that is true. What I object to, mon frere, is the idea that the tradition, culture, and history of a storied line such as Cunard is irrelevant. I reject the notion that anyone who can plot a Rhumb line course is fit to be Master of a transatlantic liner. A Cunard Captain has to be a mariner, diplomat, leader, dinner host, referee, and a parent to his (or her) crew. All I object to are the assertions that anyone who can make landfall without tearing out the bottom of the hull is good enough to displace men who have given their lives and careers in the service of Cunard.

[PRINSENDAM]

 

I am sure that is true. What I object to, mon frere, is the idea that the tradition, culture, and history of a storied line such as Cunard is irrelevant.

 

 

No it isn't irrelevant but the fact is that the P&O, and by association Princess, have been running passenger liners around the world since 1834... six years before CUNARD!!!! The history and traditions of P&O are just as important as those of Cunard.

 

 

 

 

 

All I object to are the assertions that anyone who can make landfall without tearing out the bottom of the hull is good enough to displace men who have given their lives and careers in the service of Cunard.

 

 

Well, Cunard captains have shown themselves over the years to be just as good at running ships aground as any others!!!!! Perhaps you are not aware of the amount of new steel in the bottom of QE2?

You have a rather romantic notion of what is involved in going to sea as a career. It is a job that requires highly trained, skilled and dedicated officers. There may not be much call for a tanker master to stand shaking hands with 2000 passengers at a cocktail party, but I'm sure that with a bit of encouragement he could do it if he really tried hard enough.

If you can find loyal and professional staff on board a Cunarder then you will find an equal number of loyal and professional staff working on board other ships as well. There are a number of captains with P&O/Princess who have served with the company since they were cadets. There is not one single Cunard captain who can claim such a distinction today!!!!!! They all came from elsewhere... mostly from small dirty cargo ships...and they were trained by the very captains and officers that you are dismissing as 'anyone who can make a landfall without tearing the bottom out'.

Stephen

[Cunard Cruiser]

Stephen

 

 

I assuming the “new steel on QE2 bottom” you are referring to is when she ran aground off the coast of MA in 1987. The US coast guard sited the pilot in fault and was in no way Captain Lawrence Portet's liability.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

> [quote name=.

> Some people chose to cross with Captain Smith.

> Best wishes' date=' Stephen.[/quote]

>

> Stoneyard Stephen:

> Good one!

> Sydney Stephen.

 

Glad you liked it. I always try to lower the tone.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.