Apology Ltr to Milestone cruisers

[halos]

When I first started cruising I was a high-end California roofing contractor making God awful amounts of money. Finding the TIME to cruise was the biggest problem then, so spending money on board was just a natural way to get rid of some of it. I

 

 

LOL...well, I don't think people with a lot of disposable income are the people CCL is drawing these days. This is only my feeling because of what I read here on a daily basis. Like I said, I could be way off. I'm only going by what I read here.

[nonna5]

Gary, I think all of that makes total sense...however, the market they are targeting/drawing may not have a ton of loot to spend on board. Are they counting on people to be totally irresponsible??:confused: LOL...maybe they are.

I just think that even the cruiser with no experience is going to not spend a lot if they are barely able to make the cruise fare...like I said, I read the posts here and people want 7 day cruises for under $500. I don't think these people are going to drop a ton of money on photos and booze on board.

But I could be wrong....

 

 

If they are counting on people being totally irresponsible I think they are going to have a whole other problem on their hands. What are they going to do when these irresponible people start removing their tips because they cannot afford their sail and sign bill?

 

I know I spend much more on my cruises now than I did when I was taking a family of six with me. I never spent money in the casino or bars when I was cruising with my kids. Back then my sail and sign bill was never more than $100 (not including tips as this was something you actually handed out the last night) for six people. Now just for me it is much much more.

[musicgal]

As to disposable income being a factor guys- Carnival has been our first choice primarily because we live spitting distance from the Galveston cruise terminal... but we will have many other options soon, including the Disney Magic. We have a lot of friends who "cruise only" who live around here... and they spend tons on drinking and gambling. If they have no loyalty incentives they will distribute that money to the other lines setting up shop in Galveston- many are grandparents already and I guarantee they will hit Dis Magic this year, with or without perks. I'd like to see a demographic study on how many people in the metro Houston area are serial cruisers. In our social crowd- there are many. And boy, do they spend money!

[ItsAllAboutTheSass]

 

 

2. All cruise lines are not the same! Royal says they will give you something and they stick to their word!

 

 

 

 

Do you know this for sure? Based on your cruise history in your signature you don't have 1 RCCL cruise under your belt.

[nonna5]

Do you know this for sure? Based on your cruise history in your signature you don't have 1 RCCL cruise under your belt.

 

 

Well I have more than one RCCL cruise under my belt and when they changed their loyalty program there were some upset people but nothing like this.

 

I was upset because I was one point away from the next tier because I had a 8 day cruise they only counted as 7. But that put me in the next level on my next cruise. I lost nothing. They made all cruises 7 days - thus giving all cruises equal footiing. Carnival could have learned something from them and then there would not be this uproar.

[glrounds]

2. All cruise lines are not the same! Royal says they will give you something and they stick to their word!

 

LOL . . . screwing over Loyal Royals is almost legendary . . . go back a couple of years and ponder the RCCL forum over their "adjustments" to their loyalty plan.:D

 

[Faligon]

Hehehe....WOW, what a thread! When it comes to complaining, finger pointing, rationalized indignations, legalese from pseuo legal experts and more than a smattering of folks angered to ludicrous extremes...well...IMO, this thread wins the boobie prize of the moment...and BEYOND! IMO! :D

 

Please don't get me wrong. As a member of this entitlement nation I want, and expect to receive, any and all freebies that have been by God promised to me! ;) :p I still remember the first time I sat up and took notice of the changes to the loyalty program that were in the works and the effect said changes might have on me...it was in the AM hours of the day the program was rolled out! LOL! I had already booked 7 cruises with Carnival from July to December of this year and started to panic when I stumbled upon the exact copy of the program that was leaked by a Carnival employee.

 

It is interesting, as well as amusing that so many make idle threats to cruise elsewhere, and other such nonsense, IMO, and the few that actually follow thru on them, and disdain further contact with Carnival, are hurting themselves, not the company. IMO, having a cool head, especially in extremes, and maintaining a coolness thru difficult times is the ONLY effective way to win out. Any promises implied by third parties or assumed in any way to be worthy of righteous indignation are something that may have gotten a bit off course and twisted here, IMO. Is it really worth it?

 

Entitlements are another way to lead the masses by the nose. I see a lot of folks hooked, and hooked badly. Most, if not all but a tiny fraction of complaints, HERE, on this thread, are for naught...and appear to be a lesson in futility. That is a shame. I hope each and every one that feels slighted comes to terms with the perceived transgression and is able to move on. That said, I believe that few are able to follow thru on ALL promises and that circumstances, from time to time, force the vast majority of us to make adjustments. Businesses are in the same boat, no pun intended. Things change, and so should we, and roll with it...IMO. Lastly, anyone that points fingers might want to start with themselves. Who among us has a perfect record? I don't. If you are reading this then please take care, good luck to you and yours and may the winds of fortune bless you! :)

[rellersi]

Hehehe....WOW, what a thread! When it comes to complaining, finger pointing, rationalized indignations, legalese from pseuo legal experts and more than a smattering of folks angered to ludicrous extremes...well...IMO, this thread wins the boobie prize of the moment...and BEYOND! IMO! :D

 

Please don't get me wrong. As a member of this entitlement nation I want, and expect to receive, any and all freebies that have been by God promised to me! ;) :p I still remember the first time I sat up and took notice of the changes to the loyalty program that were in the works and the effect said changes might have on me...it was in the AM hours of the day the program was rolled out! LOL! I had already booked 7 cruises with Carnival from July to December of this year and started to panic when I stumbled upon the exact copy of the program that was leaked by a Carnival employee.

 

It is interesting, as well as amusing that so many make idle threats to cruise elsewhere, and other such nonsense, IMO, and the few that actually follow thru on them, and disdain further contact with Carnival, are hurting themselves, not the company. IMO, having a cool head, especially in extremes, and maintaining a coolness thru difficult times is the ONLY effective way to win out. Any promises implied by third parties or assumed in any way to be worthy of righteous indignation are something that may have gotten a bit off course and twisted here, IMO. Is it really worth it?

 

Entitlements are another way to lead the masses by the nose. I see a lot of folks hooked, and hooked badly. Most, if not all but a tiny fraction of complaints, HERE, on this thread, are for naught...and appear to be a lesson in futility. That is a shame. I hope each and every one that feels slighted comes to terms with the perceived transgression and is able to move on. That said, I believe that few are able to follow thru on ALL promises and that circumstances, from time to time, force the vast majority of us to make adjustments. Businesses are in the same boat, no pun intended. Things change, and so should we, and roll with it...IMO. Lastly, anyone that points fingers might want to start with themselves. Who among us has a perfect record? I don't. If you are reading this then please take care, good luck to you and yours and may the winds of fortune bless you! :)

 

Well said. Brings to mind presidential campaign promises from the past 250 years, we were lied to maybe we should become Canadians, correct me if I am wrong any Canadians out there but your politicians never lie either do they

[LHP]

Not quite accurate. They were told they would be grandfathered into the top tier, but they had no idea it would be called diamond.;)

 

 

Response:

 

Thank you for making my point....they were indeed told they would be grandfather into the TOP TIER....the "name" is irrelavent.

 

 

 

To play devils advocate, there certainly was an additional benefit for them to get to milestone! The OBC's for one! Granted, everyone knows you already got that upon reaching Milestone, but a PVP could use that to push as well.

 

 

Response:

 

Incorrect. The OBC perk is one that everyone already knew about. The promise these individuals made had NOTHING to do with the perks....and everything to do with the classification. No one knew what the perks would be....so the perks are not the issue.

 

 

 

 

You just made the argument I have been saying on this thread from the beginning! In red above, the employees believed, based on incomplete information, that they were telling you correct information. In fact the information was not accurate. But at the time and place they gave this information out, they (dangerous word here) assumed it to be factual.

 

 

 

Response: I did not say that Carnival EMPLOYEES ever lied to people intentionally. This is NOT on the employee's head.....it is clearly on Carnival's head. Carnival reads everything that is posted by their on-line employees. It was Carnival's responsibility to correct bad information.

 

 

 

 

Actually, I believe it does. I have the case referance on my home computer and will try to post it tonight when I get home, but in simple terms in MOST situations, an employee cannot bind a company, even in writing, if that employee does not have the authority to do to so, or if it is a contridiction to published company policies. At the time these employees made the suggestion to book more cruises, the other program was in effect and published. That is all you can base a complaint on.

 

 

 

Response : Sorry, wrong again. False advertisement is against the law. And employees are indeed held responsible when that happens. Again, it was Carnival 's responsibility to stop false advertising.

 

 

 

 

 

See above. There was no implied contract. They gave information based on incomplete data to try to help others, during a time when published procedures mandated otherwise. The Milestoners where mislead!! Not lied to, not "promised", not contracted with. Mislead.

 

 

Response: While you are correct that there was no implied contract where the vast majority of Milestone cruisers are concerned. You are incorrect for those cruisers who were made an offer by these on-line employees after September 2011 and who accepted that offer . Money was exchanged for this offer from these Carnval agents.

 

An offer was made.....that offer was accepted and money changed hands.

(after September 2011, when Carnival had the responsibility to correct false statements being made by those employees who are paid to assist customers.)

 

This is a unique situation in that the time of deception ran 3 1/2 years. And after September 2011, these employees made offers and customers accepted these offers " in good faith". September 2011 is when online chatter erupted about "reaching Milestone before the new program was implemented " so that they would be grandfathered into their current level....which Carnival misrepresented as "one level above Platinum"' for 3 1/2 years.

 

Again for those few individuals who accepted these offers in good faith, they did indeed have an implied contract.

 

 

 

 

I hope you guys DO get resolution! I will be among the first to congratulate you if you do.

 

Of course, it will have to be later as I have a surgery tomorrow that will have me out of commission for 8-10 days...:(

 

 

I usually answer in red..but I am on my IPad....so I just posted Response.

 

Hope it is easy to read.

 

But most of all, I hope that your surgery goes well and that you heal quickly and correctly.

 

Be sure to come back on when you are all better and let us know that you are ok.

[LHP]

Hehehe....WOW, what a thread! When it comes to complaining, finger pointing, rationalized indignations, legalese from pseuo legal experts and more than a smattering of folks angered to ludicrous extremes...well...IMO, this thread wins the boobie prize of the moment...and BEYOND! IMO! :D

 

Please don't get me wrong. As a member of this entitlement nation I want, and expect to receive, any and all freebies that have been by God promised to me! ;) :p I still remember the first time I sat up and took notice of the changes to the loyalty program that were in the works and the effect said changes might have on me...it was in the AM hours of the day the program was rolled out! LOL! I had already booked 7 cruises with Carnival from July to December of this year and started to panic when I stumbled upon the exact copy of the program that was leaked by a Carnival employee.

 

It is interesting, as well as amusing that so many make idle threats to cruise elsewhere, and other such nonsense, IMO, and the few that actually follow thru on them, and disdain further contact with Carnival, are hurting themselves, not the company. IMO, having a cool head, especially in extremes, and maintaining a coolness thru difficult times is the ONLY effective way to win out. Any promises implied by third parties or assumed in any way to be worthy of righteous indignation are something that may have gotten a bit off course and twisted here, IMO. Is it really worth it?

 

Entitlements are another way to lead the masses by the nose. I see a lot of folks hooked, and hooked badly. Most, if not all but a tiny fraction of complaints, HERE, on this thread, are for naught...and appear to be a lesson in futility. That is a shame. I hope each and every one that feels slighted comes to terms with the perceived transgression and is able to move on. That said, I believe that few are able to follow thru on ALL promises and that circumstances, from time to time, force the vast majority of us to make adjustments. Businesses are in the same boat, no pun intended. Things change, and so should we, and roll with it...IMO. Lastly, anyone that points fingers might want to start with themselves. Who among us has a perfect record? I don't. If you are reading this then please take care, good luck to you and yours and may the winds of fortune bless you! :)

 

 

 

Sorry, but your entire post is a straw man argument.

 

 

Entitlements are not earned.

 

 

These individuals are only asking for what they EARNED.

 

And it has nothing to do with perks....it has to do with classification.

 

It usually helps to know what is going on before commenting.

[LHP]

LOL . . . screwing over Loyal Royals is almost legendary . . . go back a couple of years and ponder the RCCL forum over their "adjustments" to their loyalty plan.:D

 

 

Yes indeed ....I remember that brouhaha !!

 

The RCCL board erupted so much that it spilled over onto the Carnival board.

 

I never read the RCCL board and we all heard about it.....

[Hugh0906]

It would seem that if verbal offers were made, and accepted. As well as written by their employees JH who is considered as a 'key' employee that it all might fall under the DTPA. Which I think stands for the Deceptive trade practices Act.

 

I smell litigation...lol

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor did I sleep at a Holiday inn Express recently.

 

Hugh in Dallas

[musicgal]

I usually answer in red..but I am on my IPad....so I just posted Response.

 

Hope it is easy to read.

 

But most of all, I hope that your surgery goes well and that you heal quickly and correctly.

 

Be sure to come back on when you are all better and let us know that you are ok.

 

 

Yes Bill- I like you.

Get better soon-

_____________________

Typed the old way... with eight fingers slowly

On my often dropped Toshiba netbook

[Faligon]

Sorry, but your entire post is a straw man argument.

 

 

Entitlements are not earned.

 

 

These individuals are only asking for what they EARNED.

 

And it has nothing to do with perks....it has to do with classification.

 

It usually helps to know what is going on before commenting.

 

Wow...the first flame from someone I know, but obviously does not know me. :) I know EXACTLY what is going on and to imply otherwise is a sophmoric attempt at leveling an opponent, whether perceived or real. There is no emeny here but the "self" and those that fuel the fire with a generous application of incendiaries. Please direct your flame at another as I am not so easily turned. I am a powerful ally and a formidable opponent. Let's please not go there as I will always do the math and act accordingly. My opinion is just that, mine. You, nor anyone else will change that with flames or anything else...period. :p Too bad that some folks are unable to "agree to disagree." I digress and give way to those with true wisdom in the never ending fight for fairness...their examples of the same should cause pause. Sheesh! :D

[David-n-Rita]

I cruise Carnival and happen to like it. I have 32 cruises and only 186 days, so I am Platinum. It would have been nice to be "grandfathered" in Diamond, but I feel that would dilute the benefits of the people who have actually sailed 200+ days. It is a fair number and I will get there eventally. I certainly don't feel lied to or cheated, in fact it will make the diamond benefits nicer when I get there. I don't really get all the outrage, or the fact that people are making all kinds of threats not to cruise Carnival. You are not that important to them, you are a passenger with millions of other passengers. I doubt Carnival's bottom line will suffer when I die, I am not that important and neither is anyone else. There will be at least 5 new cruisers for everyone that leaves. Carnival knows that.

 

Since people who are milestone obviously like the product, Carnival knows we will just keep plugging along until we his 200+ days and then we will be diamond.

 

I think it is great that they put an upper level and they are NOT letting people in with less than 200 days. Personally I do not think they should have "grandfathered" platinum either as far as they did. A cutoff of Jan 1, 2013 would be more in line, and the end of 2013 is more than generous.

 

I would really like to see a "yearling level" of people who have cruised 365 days, and attach some really nice perks to that, maybe free internet, free drink card, something real nice for spending a year abaord a Carnival ship

[LHP]

Wow...the first flame from someone I know, but obviously does not know me. :) I know EXACTLY what is going on and to imply otherwise is a sophmoric attempt at leveling an opponent, whether perceived or real. There is no emeny here but the "self" and those that fuel the fire with a generous application of incendiaries. Please direct your flame at another as I am not so easily turned. I am a powerful ally and a formidable opponent. Let's please not go there as I will always do the math and act accordingly. My opinion is just that, mine. You, nor anyone else will change that with flames or anything else...period. :p Too bad that some folks are unable to "agree to disagree." I digress and give way to those with true wisdom in the never ending fight for fairness...their examples of the same should cause pause. Sheesh! :D

 

Not a flame at all....

 

just corrected your flawed statement.

[yesaccasey]

Hehehe....WOW, what a thread! When it comes to complaining, finger pointing, rationalized indignations, legalese from pseuo legal experts and more than a smattering of folks angered to ludicrous extremes...well...IMO, this thread wins the boobie prize of the moment...and BEYOND! IMO! :D

 

Please don't get me wrong. As a member of this entitlement nation I want, and expect to receive, any and all freebies that have been by God promised to me! ;) :p I still remember the first time I sat up and took notice of the changes to the loyalty program that were in the works and the effect said changes might have on me...it was in the AM hours of the day the program was rolled out! LOL! I had already booked 7 cruises with Carnival from July to December of this year and started to panic when I stumbled upon the exact copy of the program that was leaked by a Carnival employee.

 

It is interesting, as well as amusing that so many make idle threats to cruise elsewhere, and other such nonsense, IMO, and the few that actually follow thru on them, and disdain further contact with Carnival, are hurting themselves, not the company. IMO, having a cool head, especially in extremes, and maintaining a coolness thru difficult times is the ONLY effective way to win out. Any promises implied by third parties or assumed in any way to be worthy of righteous indignation are something that may have gotten a bit off course and twisted here, IMO. Is it really worth it?

 

Entitlements are another way to lead the masses by the nose. I see a lot of folks hooked, and hooked badly. Most, if not all but a tiny fraction of complaints, HERE, on this thread, are for naught...and appear to be a lesson in futility. That is a shame. I hope each and every one that feels slighted comes to terms with the perceived transgression and is able to move on. That said, I believe that few are able to follow thru on ALL promises and that circumstances, from time to time, force the vast majority of us to make adjustments. Businesses are in the same boat, no pun intended. Things change, and so should we, and roll with it...IMO. Lastly, anyone that points fingers might want to start with themselves. Who among us has a perfect record? I don't. If you are reading this then please take care, good luck to you and yours and may the winds of fortune bless you! :)

 

So many words but no substance here... I can't even respond.

[kmc500]

I think it is great that they put an upper level and they are NOT letting people in with less than 200 days. Personally I do not think they should have "grandfathered" platinum either as far as they did. A cutoff of Jan 1, 2013 would be more in line, and the end of 2013 is more than generous.

 

I agree that Jan 2013 would have been fair, the extension to the end of 2013 is great for us, since it is allowing my wife and I to make platinum with only 50 points and ten cruises. <g>

 

I would really like to see a "yearling level" of people who have cruised 365 days, and attach some really nice perks to that, maybe free internet, free drink card, something real nice for spending a year abaord a Carnival ship

 

Excellent idea.

 

Kevin C

[LHP]

So many words but no substance here... I can't even respond.

 

 

 

 

Exactly...just one huge straw man argument....

 

which surprised me, because he is usually spot on....

 

but he missed the entire ballgame on this one...

[getfuzzy]

Wow...the first flame from someone I know, but obviously does not know me. :) I know EXACTLY what is going on and to imply otherwise is a sophmoric attempt at leveling an opponent, whether perceived or real. There is no emeny here but the "self" and those that fuel the fire with a generous application of incendiaries. Please direct your flame at another as I am not so easily turned. I am a powerful ally and a formidable opponent. Let's please not go there as I will always do the math and act accordingly. My opinion is just that, mine. You, nor anyone else will change that with flames or anything else...period. :p Too bad that some folks are unable to "agree to disagree." I digress and give way to those with true wisdom in the never ending fight for fairness...their examples of the same should cause pause. Sheesh! :D

 

The negative comments are cracking me up to your original statement. They are missing the point of what you said.

[wiskt]

 

Never the less, comments were made by JH and he assured Milestone members that they would be grandfathered. Being a trusted member of the staff, I would think that the man would know something. Guess it just shows us that even the Senior Cruise Director doesn't know what he is talking about. I also have names of many upper line supervisors with Carnival that stated the same thing (even as late as last night). Bottom line is that it is all about the $$$$.

 

I'm responding more to the ideas here not necessarily to this individual poster........

 

Sounds to me like Mr Heald, jumped the gun and released information before it was actually confirmed and what was to be. Maybe his "suggestion" of an early retirement is more of a reprimand by the beards for opening his mouth possibly starting the whole mess.

 

Personally, I never took anything he said as fact. To me he was just another cruise director creating hype for the brand. If I was to leak out mis-information on new unreleased software or policy at my company, especially if it was to cause monetary damage to the company.... you can bet there would be repercussions.

 

As a prior poster in this thread said, the letter you received does show that Carnival does care about the Milestone customers as well as the newbies. Change and adjustments can never satisfy everyone, and you will always have those that feel they deserve more. Looking over the differences between the levels and what was gained and what may have been lost (or sacrificed for the better of the company) I have to shake my head and roll my eyes with the way some people are acting as if they are being denied boarding or something.

 

You are correct it always is about the $$$ when it comes to business,

hence the need to change or adjust the program.

 

You should be happy to be acknowledged and receive an apology letter, most companies would not have even taken that extra step.

[Faligon]

Not a flame at all....

 

just corrected your flawed statement.

 

Hehehe...I know a flame...and you are using a flamethrower. There was no correction needed...just a bit of trivial problem solving instead of fanning the flames and adding to the misery of your neighbors. Why do that? To spin it until it is indeed of vast importance to some...yourself included? The end does not justify the means and the premise you so vehemently cling to is bunk and you know it. If you want to target a body, and toss insults just because you can then I'm your huckleberry! :D You sure you want to go there? I guess I better study up and git ready! OK...I'm ready...LOL!

[Faligon]

The negative comments are cracking me up to your original statement. They are missing the point of what you said.

 

Amusing and at the same time sad. I know that blind fury sees no compromise...only hate. Ah well, such is life. :(

[JWGrayson]

Maybe you should start a FB group for people who feel they got screwed by CCL. At least they couldn't ignore that type of publicity.

 

I'd be real curious how many people feel that way! ;) I'm not one of them.

 

Also curious how someone can cruise 25 times and not have 200 cruise days? Must be a lot of 3 and 4 day cruises to the same places. Sounds like somebody trying to take advantage of the system. :rolleyes: Or, maybe they just like Nasauu and Cozumel.

[glrounds]

Maybe you should start a FB group for people who feel they got screwed by CCL. At least they couldn't ignore that type of publicity.

 

I'd be real curious how many people feel that way! ;) I'm not one of them.

 

Also curious how someone can cruise 25 times and not have 200 cruise days? Must be a lot of 3 and 4 day cruises to the same places. Sounds like somebody trying to take advantage of the system. :rolleyes: Or, maybe they just like Nasauu and Cozumel.

 

One would have to average 8 days per cruise to have 200 days in 25 cruises. Highly unlikely.:D