More Cunard/Princess merger

[Winchester]

In a long anticipated move, the sales forces of Princess and Cunard are being combined, with all regional sales managers and dsms now selling both brands throughout the U.S. and Canada. The integration follows the merger of the sales organizations in the U.K., Australia, and the rest of the world.

 

As part of the change, there is consolidation in numbers: overall, there will be 15 fewer reps selling Princess. "What we will have now is 52 district sales managers positions for Princess and Cunard," reports Senior VP Jan Swartz. "There used to be 13 Cunard districts and 54 Princess ones."

 

The unroyaling of Cunard continues.

[guernseyguy]

In a long anticipated move, the sales forces of Princess and Cunard are being combined, with all regional sales managers and dsms now selling both brands throughout the U.S. and Canada. The integration follows the merger of the sales organizations in the U.K., Australia, and the rest of the world.

 

Winchester,

 

I'm sorry.....but I don't really see the problem here....I've never been that impressed with the Cunard people at the other end of the phone - and as for internet savy, Princess is streets ahead - fill in forms online vs downloading a PDF and faxing it to Cunard.....with the internet many will be as well, or better informed than many 'sales managers'. I see this as all part of the changes required to keep Cunard competitive....and before long all these people will be on the other end of phone lines in India... Meanwhile, the onboard Cunard experience is the one I worry about.....

 

Peter

[Richard Schmidt]

Winchester,

 

I'm sorry.....but I don't really see the problem here....I've never been that impressed with the Cunard people at the other end of the phone - and as for internet savy, Princess is streets ahead - fill in forms online vs downloading a PDF and faxing it to Cunard.....with the internet many will be as well, or better informed than many 'sales managers'. I see this as all part of the changes required to keep Cunard competitive....and before long all these people will be on the other end of phone lines in India... Meanwhile, the onboard Cunard experience is the one I worry about.....

 

Peter

 

When Cunard was Cunard you had agents like Herlan Ruiz who walked me through my first QE 2 trans-Atlantic, getting me a significant upgrade and landing me at the Captain's table for the 2003 crossing. The service now through Princess reminds me of that I get at the drive-through window at the local McDonald's. Doing it "on-line" may be your idea of service. It's not mine.

[guernseyguy]

When Cunard was Cunard.... for the 2003 crossing.

 

Richard,

 

You're joking - right? 'Cunard was Cunard in 2003?' Good poll question though.....during which decade was Cunard last identifiably 'Cunard'? I'd put it in the '70s pre-Kaevner (sp?). Its funny how these things keep coming around though - 3-4 years ago it was 'Carnival is ruining Cunard' - then they built the QM2....so that didn't work anymore....so now its Princess' turn to 'ruin Cunard'. Of course, if Cunard had not done such a good job of 'ruining Cunard' themselves, they wouldn't now be controlled by Carnival/Princess....

 

Peter

[Richard Schmidt]

Richard,

 

You're joking - right? 'Cunard was Cunard in 2003?' Good poll question though.....during which decade was Cunard last identifiably 'Cunard'? I'd put it in the '70s pre-Kaevner (sp?). Its funny how these things keep coming around though - 3-4 years ago it was 'Carnival is ruining Cunard' - then they built the QM2....so that didn't work anymore....so now its Princess' turn to 'ruin Cunard'. Of course, if Cunard had not done such a good job of 'ruining Cunard' themselves, they wouldn't now be controlled by Carnival/Princess....

 

Peter

 

You may be right about the '70's being the last time "Cunard was Cunard". Still. from my perspective, the change from 2000 until now is pronounced. If I had my "druthers" we'd still be transiting on the original Queens. The only question that remains is what is left to us now. Do you believe that Princess will be the repository of trans-Atlantic tradition for the next generation? I don't believe you do.

 

Richard

[guernseyguy]

Do you believe that Princess will be the repository of trans-Atlantic tradition for the next generation? I don't believe you do.

 

Only time will tell, however, from a 'Brand Portfolio' management perspective I think they may be the least worst option. Cunard is (and has long been) a 'British' brand, targeted at Americans, in contrast with P&O for example, a 'British' brand, targeted at Brits. Princess is also targeted at Americans, so having a common target helps - and giving them the benefit of the doubt, that they are not complete morons, they will realise that simply duplicating Princess will be counter productive. I think giving Cunard to P&O would have been worse as although their 'heritage' is similar, their target markets are not. Then within Carnival where else? Carnival? Costa? HAL? Much as the merger concerns me, I suspect it was the 'least worst' option.

 

Peter

[Mickb]

I must agree with Guernsey Guy. Cunard's existing UK Management processes in giving information, confirming bookings issuing tickets etc leaves much to be desired. They are spread over three locations in Southampton alone. Princess systems are slick and user friendly. There seem to have been far fewer negative reviews on this board since key Princess people became involved.

[dougnewmanatsea]

during which decade was Cunard last identifiably 'Cunard'? I'd put it in the '70s pre-Kaevner (sp?)

Well... The past three to four decades were so torturous for Cunard that it's almost impossible to say when the "real Cunard" died. I guess the official death certificate would have to have been signed if you will in 1972 when Cunard ceased to exist as an independent company, and became an arm of Trafalgar House. Cunard has been a "brand" of some other company ever since.

[carlmm]

Cunard is (and has long been) a 'British' brand, targeted at Americans,

 

Maybe that's the way Carnival and Princess see it, but why do you and all of us non-Americans sail with Cunard then?

 

Without any statistical significance I beg to differ and just give the rough numbers from a QE2 crossing and a Caronia cruise:

 

QE2:

American 57%

British 29%

German speaking 10%

Others 4%

 

Caronia:

American 1%

British 85%

French 3%

German Speaking 8%

Others 3%

 

Well, if the target market is indeed just American, this explains a lot (Peter, I enjoined your humorous way to point out some of the 'highlights' on your recent crossing.) but Cunard's administrators neglect a huge part of their, at least former, guests.

[mufi]

Because QE2 and QM2 were always perceived to be more "Cunard" than Caronia. Also the numbers you quote for Caronia must be for a European, Southampton / Southampton cruise, which would not be expected to attract many Americans.

 

David.

[2moose]

Well... The past three to four decades were so torturous for Cunard that it's almost impossible to say when the "real Cunard" died. I guess the official death certificate would have to have been signed if you will in 1972 when Cunard ceased to exist as an independent company, and became an arm of Trafalgar House. Cunard has been a "brand" of some other company ever since.

I WOULD SAY MID 90'S . IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE 90'S THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT WAS GIVING FINANCIAL ASSIST TO CUNARD AND ALSO CONCORD AND MENDING THE TWO TOGETHER AT LOW LOW PRICES.IE. SAIL ONE WAY AND FLY BACK THE OTHER ON THE C0NCORD FOR SAY AN XTRA $ 400.00USD (AIR) (1995). I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS ON THIS. BEST REGARDS JIM

[Mickb]

I would be amazed if the British Government was giving help in the 90's to either Cunard or British Airways. British Governments don't give subsidies to private operators ( except the rail operating companies through a very complicated structure.) They subsidised the development initially of Concorde but not its operating costs....thats why it was withdrawn...

As a British Tax payer.. I would be very angry if they did!

[guernseyguy]

Maybe that's the way Carnival and Princess see it, but why do you and all of us non-Americans sail with Cunard then?

 

Carlmm, The 'British Brand targeted at Americans' goes as far back (at least) as the original Queen Mary - onboard currency $$, interior design aimed at appealling to US tastes. Its really very smple, there are more of them, and they are richer! In the 1930s each major European power had its flag ships & lines - (France, Normandie, Germany, Bremen, Italy, Rex) now only the 'UK' (sic) is in the crossing business so I guess they have no where else to sail.

 

Peter

[guernseyguy]

IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE 90'S THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT WAS GIVING FINANCIAL ASSIST TO CUNARD AND ALSO CONCORD

 

Jim,

 

Yes, there were good deals on QE2/Concorde - but that was a deal between two privately owned companies.

 

As for government subsidy, I have two words; 'Margaret' and 'Thatcher'.

 

I very seriously doubt it........

 

Peter

[dougnewmanatsea]

As I recall some subsidies (or loans?) were involved in building QE2, but I don't believe she ever received operating subsidies. At the very least, if she ever did, it would have been a very, very long time ago - certainly not the 1990s.

 

The QE2-Concorde deal wasn't subsidized at all - it was just an agreement between Cunard and BA, by then two private firms (BA was a state-owned enterprise up until the 1980s).

 

I don't believe BA's Concorde ever received any operating subsidies either, though the British and French governments did foot much of the bill for developing Concorde. (I would not be surprised if Air France received some sort of subsidies for their Concorde, as the French government is very big on subsidising things. Certainly FRANCE, unlike QE2, was very heavily subsidised - and in fact Concorde was the excuse for withdrawing her subsidies.)

 

The exception to "no subsidies" as far as QE2 is concerned would be the post-Falklands refit in 1983. I believe the British Government did pay for that... And they gave QE2 a much more generous refit than CANBERRA (just as QE2 was given preferntial treatment during the war itself).

[Normandie-BCN]

The present image of Cunard as a company which delivers a luxury or sophisticated product or service comes from some of their ships like the Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, Mauretania, etc.

 

However, at the same time, Cunard had many cargo ships, cargo plus passenger ships, and passenger ships which quality was standard and no one could associate Cunard Trademark only with luxury or sophistication.

 

When Cunard sold its cargos and standard ships and kept only high level ships like QE2 and some cruise ships Cunard went not anymore Cunard but a better company. I think that, today, average Cunard services are higher than they were 50 years ago, withouy taking into consideration the lower classes of any former ship; class by class the present Cunard is better than the old.

 

I think that if we could go backwards in the time and cruise with the old QM or QE we would be disapointed and would like to come back the QM2 or QE2. The past is better in our recolections but usually our recollections are more a construction of our brains that a film of the past.

 

Today Cunard has an image as Trademark wich has not in the 40’s, 50’, or 60’s. At that time the image of luxury and sophistication belonged to its ships but not to Cunard. The same could be said on Italian Line, French Line, etc. The image belonged to flag ships but not to companies.

[2moose]

Thanx To All For Correcting My Understanding On Cunard!!!(