Why We Left NCL?

[BaseballMomof4]

However this thread is about smoking. Your may have some valid points in a sun, gambling, alcohol, emissions, perfumes or obesity thread. To bring these things up in this thread about smoking is not really relevant.

 

It is completely relevant. I am addressing the arguments being made by those complaining about smoking.

 

Some wish to say they are annoyed or offended. Well, there are plenty of annoying and offensive behaviors onboard any given cruise ship. Sometimes you just have to take the bad with the good. Late night noise annoys me. If I don't expect the cruise line to call a curfew, why should another passenger expect the cruise line to ban my "annoying" behavior?

 

Others want to play the "health conscious" card. If you are going to be "health conscious" then don't selectively target smoking. Target every other unhealthy behavior on a cruise ship, otherwise it is simply hypocritical.

 

I am annoyed by loud obnoxious drunks. I don't expect the cruise line to ban them. I avoid them. I find the overuse of perfume/cologne nauseating. I don't expect the cruise line to ban the use of them. I avoid them. I have had loud late night partiers as neighbors on a cruise. I can't ask the cruise line to throw them off the ship. I bought earplugs.

 

If smoking bothers someone that much they should look into other lines instead of trying to make the rest of the cruising public bend to their will.

[IMWord]

That is where you are incorrect. I recognize the health concerns associated with smoking. What I am objecting to is the fact that there seems to be an ongoing campaign by some regarding smoking no matter where it is on the ship and the battle cry is always that it is a "health risk".

 

My point is if you want to campaign against "potential health risks" then stop selectively targeting smokers. Perhaps while people are targeting smokers they could also address all other potentially unhealthy activities.

 

Sun causes skin cancer so stay out of the tropics;

Gambling is addictive so shut down the casinos;

Alcohol is addictive and causes liver damage so do not serve it;

Emissions cause toxic fumes so hoist those sails please;

Perfumes/Colognes are toxic to asthmatics so ban all scented items;

Obesity is a leading cause of death in the US these days so shut down that buffet!!!!!

 

and so on and so on and so on.

 

Cloking the anti-smoking agenda in being "health conscious" while sunbathing with a margarita seated under the ships stacks while gorging on unlimited food makes that argument somewhat less than credible.

 

Sorry, being new to cruising I'm not aware of this campaign. However, your bulleted points are again misleading:

- Sun and alcohol (both a health benefit in moderation - Vitamin D and heart) is a choice someone makes and does not affect you or your 4 children on your cruise.

- Obesity is another choice someone makes if they over indulge and again, doesn't impact you or your 4 children's health (unless they are coming at you in a narrow deck hall!)

- emissions: this is true, but the environmental and health impact is more dramatic on the coastal community rather than the cruiser. Also, cruise lines do monitoring of the smokestack and measuring of emissions is done as well. Additionally, many of the newer ships are using natural or propane gas turbines for electrical loads and propulsion in sensitive areas so overall emissions are reduced.

- perfumes/colognes are not "toxic" to individuals who have asthma. They can however exasperate the asthmatic systems but pose no health risk to passengers.

[IMWord]

A little off topic but adding a little levity to the topic at hand. But this math reminded me a joke I heard years ago.

 

Love it! I'm stealing it and sharing with my co-workers! Thanks for the good humor :)

[BaseballMomof4]

Sorry, being new to cruising I'm not aware of this campaign. However, your bulleted points are again misleading:

- Sun and alcohol (both a health benefit in moderation - Vitamin D and heart) is a choice someone makes and does not affect you or your 4 children on your cruise.

- Obesity is another choice someone makes if they over indulge and again, doesn't impact you or your 4 children's health (unless they are coming at you in a narrow deck hall!)

- emissions: this is true, but the environmental and health impact is more dramatic on the coastal community rather than the cruiser. Also, cruise lines do monitoring of the smokestack and measuring of emissions is done as well. Additionally, many of the newer ships are using natural or propane gas turbines for electrical loads and propulsion in sensitive areas so overall emissions are reduced.

- perfumes/colognes are not "toxic" to individuals who have asthma. They can however exasperate the asthmatic systems but pose no health risk to passengers.

 

Exposing yourself and your 4 children to smoking on a cruise ship is also a choice since smoking is allowed in very limited areas on the ship that are easily avoidable if one feel strongly about it. Not that difficult to avoid the casino and the limited public areas that allow smoking.

 

Additionally, the studies regarding second hand smoke indicate that you would have have to regularly be in a confined space for an extended period of time with an excess of second hand smoke before it had any measurable effect (i.e. bartenders, cocktail waitresses). You are about as likely to get cancer from a wiff of second hand smoke from a balcony on the open sea as you are to be struck by lightening.

 

Actually an asthma attack can be quite dangerous and can be brought on by perfumes and colognes.

[coffeebean]

Well, I'm guessing that this probably averages out. For every person who leaves NCL because of their smoking policy, others will book NCL because of it.

 

We have several friends who only sailed Princess and Celebrity who have now moved over to NCL because of the other lines changes to a more restrictive smoking policy.

 

Do research and choose a line that fits your needs the best.

This is what I'm afraid of. NCL is absorbing more smokers now that the other lines have a stricter smoking policy. I wonder when NCL will take a stand and strive for clean air that other cruise lines are offering to their balcony passengers.

 

I'm not saying to ban smoking completely on ships but to limit smoking only to an area on upper decks and not in the cabin areas. This way, the majority of passengers' needs/wants will be met.

[coffeebean]

Having a smoking side or deck won't work. Regardless of where a smoking area is designated, there's going to be a time when non-smokers are going to want to be in that spot. For even a moment, that exact place is going to be the single best spot on the ship.

There has to be give and take on the part of smokers and non smokers. IMHO, smoking in an out of the way place on an upper deck is better for non smokers than allowing smoking on cabin balconies. Smokers will still be able to light up, just not on a balcony next to passengers who wish to use their balcony rather than just taking in the view from inside the cabin.

[pcreek]

<sigh> I tried to keep my fingers still - honest I did!!

But..I just have to post on this thread.

 

I don't have an opinion on a solution to the smoking / no smoking debate.

 

I just wanted to post. (hey! criticize me all you want to .. but I am a cruise critic.. and I'm entitled to express my opinion...even if I don't have one)

 

Sorry...just had to be a pain. ;) LOL

 

Whether people smoke or not does not make or break my cruise. (and we always have at least a balcony cabin) But I always pick NCL.

[time2cruise1]

There has to be give and take on the part of smokers and non smokers. IMHO, smoking in an out of the way place on an upper deck is better for non smokers than allowing smoking on cabin balconies. Smokers will still be able to light up, just not on a balcony next to passengers who wish to use their balcony rather than just taking in the view from inside the cabin.

 

For a smoker that is like putting your toilet on an upper deck.

[che5904]

This is what I'm afraid of. NCL is absorbing more smokers now that the other lines have a stricter smoking policy. I wonder when NCL will take a stand and strive for clean air that other cruise lines are offering to their balcony passengers.

 

I'm not saying to ban smoking completely on ships but to limit smoking only to an area on upper decks and not in the cabin areas. This way, the majority of passengers' needs/wants will be met.

 

You are sort of contradicting yourself. If your fear is that NCL will absorb more smokers then the ones who need/want the cabin areas no smoking may not be the majority (the way you think it is now).

[IMWord]

Exposing yourself and your 4 children to smoking on a cruise ship is also a choice since smoking is allowed in very limited areas on the ship that are easily avoidable if one feel strongly about it. Not that difficult to avoid the casino and the limited public areas that allow smoking.

 

Additionally, the studies regarding second hand smoke indicate that you would have have to regularly be in a confined space for an extended period of time with an excess of second hand smoke before it had any measurable effect (i.e. bartenders, cocktail waitresses). You are about as likely to get cancer from a wiff of second hand smoke from a balcony on the open sea as you are to be struck by lightening.

 

Actually an asthma attack can be quite dangerous and can be brought on by perfumes and colognes.

 

Don't mean to nitpick but the OP never mentioned casino's and other smoking areas - just the balcony. And since you omitted that area in your post let me ask a question: aren't I kinda stuck with my balcony stateroom after I book? I guess I could ask to move, but I'm not sure how that would work or if I'd now get a stateroom location I would be happy with. So how is being exposed to smoke on my balcony that drifts from another balcony "my choice". Just ask'n.

 

I would be interested in your source for the "studies" regarding second hand smoke. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention clearly states "For nonsmokers, breathing secondhand smoke has immediate harmful effects on the cardiovascular system that can increase the risk for heart attack. People who already have heart disease are at especially high risk".

 

Again, perfumes/colognes are not "toxic" as you stated. However, while you're on things that "might" trigger an asthma attack, you may as well add these: saliva, dander, dust mites, cockroach waste, mold, mildew, Tobacco smoke, hairsprays, lotions, air fresheners, cleaning solutions, pesticides and paint fumes.

 

Since tobacco smoke is on the list this example might not be something you want to champion.

[Cloudyrain]

Maybe it didn't provoke enough interest because it made no sense. A smoker does not smoke all 20 cigs in a row. A person sleeps about 8 hours a day. Figure two hours a day eating in a venue away from your cabin.

Let's say four more hours a day at the pool, casino, shows and bars.

Let's say three ports and four or five hours off the ship in each, call it an average of two hours a day. That leaves about eight hours a day and that number must be high.

 

Now pace out that cig pace to one on and two off. So one every 15 minutes. Twenty cigs would be spaced out over five hours. Cut that in half because all cigs might not be on the balcony. With balconies beside over and under you that could be 11 other balconies within two of yours.

Using the formula posted by someone else the smoking population would be 25%. So you have about three cabins smoking within two of yours. Each one of those spacing their cigs out over five hours, half of which might be on their balcony. That is 7.5 hours of smoking within just two cabins of yours. Adjust that a little for whatever little math errors I made.

 

I make no sense..... I think you are completely missing the point and going way over the top! I was basically pointing out that if your neighbour is smoking it's 5 minutes at a time and not every second of the day. Seriously you are including those in 2 cabins away now too, and also completely disregarding wind direction, and the fact that they happen to be there at the exact time you are. :rolleyes:

 

This whole debate is turning into a ridiculous slanging match that always happens when smoking is raised, even people blaming the neighbouring smoker for possibly giving them cancer in the future. Get some reality people, it is just as inconvenient and annoying as having a drunk next door, or sitting in a restaurant next to a screaming child. It's not going to ruin your holiday, it's not going to ruin your life, and it's certainly not going to kill you. I appreciate IF wind conditions were against you, and IF your neighbour chain smoked from 8am till midnight it could affect your balcony, but it doesn't stop you waking up in the morning to a beautiful lovely holiday on a cruise ship, and there are a hell of a lot worse things in life! :)

[CI66774]

I guess the bottom line is if NCL allows smoking on balconies, there's nothing anyone can do about it. The smokers, essentially, have permission to smoke there. The only course of action would be to convince NCL to ban smoking altogether. I'm a non-smoker and can't stand smoke but I have choices if I want a smoke-free environment, I cruise on Celebrity.:)

[coffeebean]

They already did that. The Epic already has a separate non smoking casino. Granted it was empty the 2 times I was on the Epic.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

I've been on the Epic twice and never saw a non smoking casino. Where is it?

[coffeebean]

They already did that. The Epic already has a separate non smoking casino. Granted it was empty the 2 times I was on the Epic.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

I've been on the Epic twice and never saw a non smoking casino. Where is it? The only casino I saw was the huge space that occupied a large part of deck 6.

[coffeebean]

I would cruise Celebrity for their smoking policy but they don't have Freestyle and the choices of specialty dining that NCL offers.

[BaseballMomof4]

Don't mean to nitpick but the OP never mentioned casino's and other smoking areas - just the balcony. And since you omitted that area in your post let me ask a question: aren't I kinda stuck with my balcony stateroom after I book? I guess I could ask to move, but I'm not sure how that would work or if I'd now get a stateroom location I would be happy with. So how is being exposed to smoke on my balcony that drifts from another balcony "my choice". Just ask'n.

 

I would be interested in your source for the "studies" regarding second hand smoke. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention clearly states "For nonsmokers, breathing secondhand smoke has immediate harmful effects on the cardiovascular system that can increase the risk for heart attack. People who already have heart disease are at especially high risk".

 

Again, perfumes/colognes are not "toxic" as you stated. However, while you're on things that "might" trigger an asthma attack, you may as well add these: saliva, dander, dust mites, cockroach waste, mold, mildew, Tobacco smoke, hairsprays, lotions, air fresheners, cleaning solutions, pesticides and paint fumes.

 

Since tobacco smoke is on the list this example might not be something you want to champion.

 

No one should have to move their cabin - not you and not the smoker either. It's not like someone is going to sit on their balcony 24/7 and chain smoke for crying out loud! Five minutes. That's about how long it takes to smoke a cigarette. Geez Louise people - and in those 5 minutes you might very well be out of your cabin, sleeping, eating dinner, in the shower - whatever. Live and let live!

 

And as an obviously well read individual I am certain you will concede that in all probability I can find just as many studies to back my opinion as you can yours. That is just the way of the world.

 

All I am trying to say here is simply I smoke, I paid for my cruise just like you did, my habit may annoy you and that is unfortunate, but consider the fact that maybe your 4 kids will annoy me (they won't - I too am a mother of 4, this is just for sake of argument). So, be annoyed by me for 5 minutes just as someone will be annoyed by something that you do for 5 minutes and let it go.

 

And for the record, the CDC is speaking about indoor spaces - we are talking about outdoor spaces.

[luddite]

In my experience, your post and that of Luddite's are typical of the denial you will see from smokers. Many will do/say anything to justify their drug addiction and move the conversation away from the topic at hand. As an ex-smoker who struggled to become smoke free - I feel your pain. :o

 

Here's what happens every time one smokes a cigarette:

- Although we may feel more relaxed as we smoke, our blood pressure and heart rate both increase, the heart pumps differently, and the blood flow to the capillaries decreases.

- Blood carbon monoxide levels increase. "Carbon monoxide takes the place of oxygen in some of your red blood cells, and it sticks on to the red cells for days, preventing oxygen from being carried by these cells", warns Currow.

- Other changes happen in our airways: the little finger-like cilia which keep airways clear of phlegm are 'stunned' by chemicals in the smoke and tiny muscles in our airways contract, constricting them.

- There are also measurable changes in the immune system

:) You have assumed facts not in evidence. I am not a butt-sucker.

Second-hand smoke is not the killer that you are claiming. I'm in more danger from the stench emanating from a Scentsy pot.

[EvilBanker]

This is what I'm afraid of. NCL is absorbing more smokers now that the other lines have a stricter smoking policy. I wonder when NCL will take a stand and strive for clean air that other cruise lines are offering to their balcony passengers.

 

I'm not saying to ban smoking completely on ships but to limit smoking only to an area on upper decks and not in the cabin areas. This way, the majority of passengers' needs/wants will be met.

 

Beware the of the law of unintended consequences. If more smokers are being driven to NCL, the "majority of passengers' needs/wants" may be different than you expect.

[BaseballMomof4]

There has to be give and take on the part of smokers and non smokers. IMHO, smoking in an out of the way place on an upper deck is better for non smokers than allowing smoking on cabin balconies. Smokers will still be able to light up, just not on a balcony next to passengers who wish to use their balcony rather than just taking in the view from inside the cabin.

 

The problem with that is the expectation continues to be that the smokers give, and give, and give some more. A few years ago I could smoke in my cabin, now I have spend a great deal more to get a balcony cabin if I want to smoke - smokers gave. A few years ago I could smoke on the pool deck, now I can only smoke on one side of one open deck - smokers gave. There are plenty of other examples of different areas on different ships and different lines where smoking used to be allowed but is not more and most smokers will simply comply without complaint. The problem is some will not be happy until the every ship on every line is entirely non-smoking. That is not give and take. That is take and take.

[Kaboochi]

First off, please indulge us and try not to flame; we are posting this hoping that someone from Norwegian actually reads these threads.

As you can see from our signature, our trips to our favorite island have varied only in the cruise-line: either X or NCL, oveCr time we've gone back and forth. In retrospect, even with the occasional hmm, we obviously enjoyed NCL and the Dawn:

- Even from PA, we especially loved NCL's Manhattan embarkation - never had a problem driving in, parking, and/or leaving.

- Even with some obligatory dings, the Dawn (and I suspect the cruise line) is maintained very well, and the crew members, if sometimes tired, were generally at least friendly and helpful.

- The many dining options on the Dawn, from so-so to excellent, we could always find something worthwhile.

- The entertainment was very good - there always seemed to be music everywhere you went. In addition to the very talented (if stretched) resident party band, we enjoyed Jose and Patti, Fire and Ice... (This year, unfortunately, at least on the Star the entertainment appears to have been cut back...).

Now. When the Dawn shifted to Boston, we looked at the Star, but decided to give X a try. Without getting into subjective differences, other than entertainment, the clincher for us with Celebrity is the non-smoking policy. NCL's new policy stipulates smokers can only do so on one part of the upper deck - or on their balcony; a minor inconvenience for those who smoke, but for those next door? I'm a former smoker and generally believe in live and let live, BUT:

If we spend $3K of our vacation money to pay for the balcony room we love so much, what happens when our NCL neighbor(s) smoke like chimneys, and we can't even open our sliding doors? And we found it does happen.

Really? Can't one side/section of the ship be balcony-smoking optional?

We would book another NCL cruise in a heartbeat - especially the Breakaway (!!) - if we knew we wouldn't have to worry about our balcony being downwind of an ashtray. Is there really no answer to this?

Our two cents. Thanks.

 

I have read the relies but, since you like cruising ncl, what about bringing a small fan and extension cord to use on the balcony. I smoke on my balcony but am very conscious about where the smoke gows. I totally agree with you about keeping one side of the ship smoke free. I think that would work for everyone. One question: are there lines that have incorporated this concept? I hope you enjoy your next cruise

[relic2]

I've been on the Epic twice and never saw a non smoking casino. Where is it? The only casino I saw was the huge space that occupied a large part of deck 6.

 

The only NCL non-smoking casino I have seen was on, if I remember correctly, the Spirit. It is up a half flight of stairs next to the left side entrance to the main casino. Of course it is barely attended. I had to go to the main casino to ask them to send someone up when my machine malfunctioned. Still, no smoke was nice!

Margaret

[crewser1]

I have read the replies but, since you like cruising ncl, what about bringing a small fan and extension cord to use on the balcony.

 

I was thinking about this as well as it would be a possible solution for non-smokers. The question I have would be whether or not NCL would allow you to take a fan into your cabin (can't see why not) and an extension cord (may consider this a hazard?).

[DMH15]

This is the mentality that would make me chain smoke just to annoy my neighbor as opposed to being considerate of them.

 

My money is the same color green as everyone elses and I spent a lot more of it to have the luxury of sitting on my balcony in peace to have a smoke. I do not try to smoke in public areas where is it not allowed nor do I intentionally smoke to irritate anyone.

 

Quite frankly, there are those who have no idea that dousing themselves in perfume or cologne can be downright nauseating to those around them - shall I send poop smell their way when they sit at a nearby table and ruin my dinner?

 

And what about the loud oboxious drunks? They too ruin a portion of my vacation - can we put all of them on a drunks only ship?

 

While we are at it let's get an unaccompanied brat ship up and running too.

 

Perhaps one for late night loud talkers/door slammers as well.

 

My point? I doubt there is anyone posting here that isn't guilty of something that inconveniences/annoys another cruiser. You need to realize you are in what essentially equates to a small city and not everyone is there to please you. Your vacation is what you make of it. Try to think about that smoke you don't like the next time your are spraying your perfume/cologne before dinner. ;)

 

Non smoker here who agrees with your post. Sometimes I get a whiff of a smell I don't like (not just cig smoke) or sounds I don't like, baby crying, loud talker, cell phone talker, drunk. I can let it ruin my day or smile and look past it. I don't want to live in a bubble.

[DMH15]

No one should have to move their cabin - not you and not the smoker either. It's not like someone is going to sit on their balcony 24/7 and chain smoke for crying out loud! Five minutes. That's about how long it takes to smoke a cigarette. Geez Louise people - and in those 5 minutes you might very well be out of your cabin, sleeping, eating dinner, in the shower - whatever. Live and let live!

 

And as an obviously well read individual I am certain you will concede that in all probability I can find just as many studies to back my opinion as you can yours. That is just the way of the world.

 

All I am trying to say here is simply I smoke, I paid for my cruise just like you did, my habit may annoy you and that is unfortunate, but consider the fact that maybe your 4 kids will annoy me (they won't - I too am a mother of 4, this is just for sake of argument). So, be annoyed by me for 5 minutes just as someone will be annoyed by something that you do for 5 minutes and let it go.

 

And for the record, the CDC is speaking about indoor spaces - we are talking about outdoor spaces.

 

You never met my Aunt Jennie. I swear that woman slept maybe 2-3 hours a night. The othet 21-22 hours she had at least one cig going. If 12 of us went out to dinner we would have to sit in a smoking section. She drank and smoke, took 2 bites of food and got a doggy bag.

 

She lived a very long life. And I miss her. And this non smoker would give anything to spend just one more day with her.

 

So yes, some people sit in groups with at least one person smoking constantly for hours. I see it at parties. Formulas are just that.

 

That being said, on NCL on their balcony, that's within their rights.

[IMWord]

And as an obviously well read individual I am certain you will concede that in all probability I can find just as many studies to back my opinion as you can yours. That is just the way of the world.

 

All I am trying to say here is simply I smoke, I paid for my cruise just like you did, my habit may annoy you and that is unfortunate, but consider the fact that maybe your 4 kids will annoy me (they won't - I too am a mother of 4, this is just for sake of argument). So, be annoyed by me for 5 minutes just as someone will be annoyed by something that you do for 5 minutes and let it go.

 

And for the record, the CDC is speaking about indoor spaces - we are talking about outdoor spaces.

 

Thank you for the compliment. I'm not sure what opinion you are referring too, but if you do have any supporting references such as the one I used, that would be interesting. Also, I didn't see where the CDC differentiated between indoors and outdoors when it comes to the immediate effects of 2nd hand smoke. As a matter of fact, a recent study which involved the Wall Street Journal found that nonsmokers who breathe in secondhand smoke outdoors have elevated levels of tobacco-related chemicals in their body, according to the study. The researchers say their findings suggest this smoke exposure may increase risks of health effects associated with cancer-causing agents in tobacco". Nothing definitive, but I would say if you can smell it, you're ingesting it - inside or outside.