Why no life guards??

[garycarla]

We don't know if it would have changed the outcome but we do know the outcome. So we know having them might have meant a better outcome. That's a good enough reason to have lifeguards.

 

Might have meant a better outcome?

 

That is the reason to do something?

 

Really?

[Karysa]

I sure have. Again - Disney resorts have thousands more than your figures above.

 

I thought Disney has started hiring Lifeguards for their ship and resort pools. Is this not the case.

[Karysa]

Might have meant a better outcome?

 

That is the reason to do something?

 

Really?

 

Absolutely. Saving some lives is better than no lives is it not?

[Karysa]

Before anyone answers this question, let me ask this:

 

Would having lifeguards on duty have changed the outcome?

 

And, if you answer is yes, please share with the rest of us what actually took place.

 

Thank You.

 

A 4 year old drown in a pool. A 6 year old nearly drowned. Lifeguards are trained to guard pools and spot and rescue those in trouble.

[Richpontone]

It is nice to have lifeguards aboard the ship, but you may need one on each of the pools on a ship and we are talking 24/7 as anyone can get in the pool at any hour of the day or night.

 

Also, lifeguards are difficult to hire. My social service agency hosted a live in summer camp and we had a devil of a time in getting certified lifeguards. We had to hire them from the UK or Ireland as American kids just did not want to be trained in this type of job. Many times, we had to go to a specialized personnel agency to get such personnel from other countries. So there is a real scarcity of trained personnel in this country.

 

And for the chump change that cruise lines pay and the fact that such employees have to sign on for six or more months, it is impossible to hire and retain a lifeguard staff. Many local governments pay higher wages, and don't have long term contracts for their lifeguards to sign.

 

Lifeguards. It is a great staff to have but it is definitely easier to agree to it but having it done, is a whole other story.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Richpontone

[SissasMomE]

I thought Disney has started hiring Lifeguards for their ship and resort pools. Is this not the case.

 

They have lifeguards at the main resort pools. They do not have lifeguards at the "quiet" pools all of the time. It is usually for a specified time period. I have no idea about the ships. I can only speak as to the resorts.

[Hawaiidan]

A 4 year old drown in a pool. A 6 year old nearly drowned. Lifeguards are trained to guard pools and spot and rescue those in trouble.

 

Here in Hawaii we find that more people get into trouble at beaches with life guards because they feel totally without risk to do anything they want.

 

Hey nothing will happen to me...the life guard will take care of me....what the heck.

 

Life guards do not increase safety and can do nothing to prevent you or them from stupid acts. His response time is not guaranteed and his limited medical skill and equipment is not going to be of help in a great many cases. Many of the people the rescue end up dying... It looks good however and is good PR.

 

Where as on their own no life guards, people are more careful and thinking..non risk takers.

 

But the real problem here is we are ignoring the cause and thinking how to address the results of stupid behavior.

The kids died plain and simple because of lack of parenting and parent supervision and parental neglect.

 

Lets look at the real cause... not the effect.

 

Its not the cruise line, the grandma, the people on deck or passerby's...its good ole mom and dad.. turning their kids loose on a monster ship with on or inadequate/poor supervision and letting them go in a restricted area..

 

Put the personal responsibility back in life.... when people do dumb things they get hurt and die. Others take notice and change their lives... That's how it works.........

John Wayne, put it well," life is tough, its even tougher when your dumb"

[Fishbait17]

Just few quick questions to those who want lifeguards on ships. Are you willing to give up about 25% of deck space around all the pools and hot tubs? Are you willing to have hot tubs and pools close early, at like 6pm and open at say 10am? Are you willing to give up certain things like sitting on pool edges with feet dangling in pools, blocking the lifeguards vision path (even while watching your own children) and moving chairs around, blocking pathways from various lifeguard stands? Are you willing to wait your turn when pool capacity is tightly restricted for safety issues? These are legitimate issues that would arise if NCL takes more responsibility by hiring lifeguards. I'm neither for or against placing lifeguards, as I don't use the pools or pool deck, but I am a long time trained lifeguard and Certified Pool Operator and I know some of the legal restrictions that keep many places from hiring guards. It's not a simple matter of hiring trained guards and placing them around the pools.... If everyone is willing to give up these current liberties and more without complaint, then it's a legitimate option..

 

Robin

Edited February 5, 2014 by Fishbait17

[Karysa]

It is nice to have lifeguards aboard the ship, but you may need one on each of the pools on a ship and we are talking 24/7 as anyone can get in the pool at any hour of the day or night.

 

Also, lifeguards are difficult to hire. My social service agency hosted a live in summer camp and we had a devil of a time in getting certified lifeguards. We had to hire them from the UK or Ireland as American kids just did not want to be trained in this type of job. Many times, we had to go to a specialized personnel agency to get such personnel from other countries. So there is a real scarcity of trained personnel in this country.

 

And for the chump change that cruise lines pay and the fact that such employees have to sign on for six or more months, it is impossible to hire and retain a lifeguard staff. Many local governments pay higher wages, and don't have long term contracts for their lifeguards to sign.

 

Lifeguards. It is a great staff to have but it is definitely easier to agree to it but having it done, is a whole other story.

 

Most ship pools are drained at night or have a net covering them. Hiring enough lifeguards would definitely be challenging. Perhaps fencing in the pools and using a key entery system and security person at the gate would be a better choice. It would probably be cheaper in the long run as well. A little unsightly to say the least but definitely something that needs to be considered at least IMHO.

[Fishbait17]

Here in Hawaii we find that more people get into trouble at beaches with life guards because they feel totally without risk to do anything they want.

 

Hey nothing will happen to me...the life guard will take care of me....what the heck.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I have lost count of how many children my daughter and future son-in-law have pulled out of the ocean when the parents never even knew they were in trouble (including one who didnt survive) AND the number of adults who have been pulled after making really stupid judgement calls.

 

Robin

[garycarla]

Absolutely. Saving some lives is better than no lives is it not?

 

I just do not understand that the jump from not having a lifeguard to having one would have saved this tragedy.

 

Maybe it would have.

 

Maybe it would not.

 

Unless someone here has the facts surrounding this situation, we do not know.

 

To make an assumption either way is, well... irresponsible.

[Karysa]

I just do not understand that the jump from not having a lifeguard to having one would have saved this tragedy.

 

Maybe it would have.

 

Maybe it would not.

 

Unless someone here has the facts surrounding this situation, we do not know.

 

To make an assumption either way is, well... irresponsible.

 

Sorry not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you questioning if Lifeguards save lives at pools?

[kirsty_r]

I am a qualified lifeguard, and yes they can save lives in the large pools as we can very quickly rescue somebody (we have time targets in 25 metre pools) and get CPR going, however in a cruise ship pool which are a fraction of the size of a full sized pool, I honestly do not feel a lifeguard would save lives. Children should always be a parents responsibility, and children should personally have an adult IN the pool with them, regardless of how well they can swim. Having staff in the pool area trained in CPR (which all staff are I believe) still ensure CPR is delivered quickly.

[Karysa]

I am a qualified lifeguard, and yes they can save lives in the large pools as we can very quickly rescue somebody (we have time targets in 25 metre pools) and get CPR going, however in a cruise ship pool which are a fraction of the size of a full sized pool, I honestly do not feel a lifeguard would save lives. Children should always be a parents responsibility, and children should personally have an adult IN the pool with them, regardless of how well they can swim. Having staff in the pool area trained in CPR (which all staff are I believe) still ensure CPR is delivered quickly.

 

My DD was a lifeguard and while on a cruise last year she stopped a young teen diving in to a very wavy pool from a poolside bench. She was aware of her surroundings and knew the danger and did not want to perform a spinal on a ship, in a pool that had waves galore. There were others including myself there but as soon as that kid put his arms above his head she said "no". She then told him why. He listened and walked away.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Karysa

[garycarla]

Sorry not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you questioning if Lifeguards save lives at pools?

 

Yes, they save lives. Who would say otherwise? But it is not an automatic assumption.

 

Unless someone here can recount the exact details of what happened, we are only guessing.

 

Here are some statistics to ponder. We still have ZERO idea of what ones might apply to this tragedy. But, people continue to pass judgement without any facts.

[Karysa]

Yes, they save lives. Who would say otherwise? But it is not an automatic assumption.

 

Unless someone here can recount the exact details of what happened, we are only guessing.

 

Here are some statistics to ponder. We still have ZERO idea of what ones might apply to this tragedy. But, people continue to pass judgement without any facts.

 

No one said that this was a fact finding mission. :)

Where do you stand on the issue of lifeguards or gated pools? Do you think that they would save lives?

[spunkyhungry]

I can't find any cruise line that has lifeguards, although I don't know about Disney? Nor can I find any home owners association, condo's either. As soon as you have a lifeguard, you accept the liability for the swimmers. By warning of no protection, they have done pretty well. The swimmer and the parents of children swimming are the responsible party.

I think they would close the pools before they provide lifeguards. Same reason they either drain the pools at night or put nets over them.

 

My condo complex has a lifeguard for our pool. :) I wouldn't feel comfortable swimming there by myself without one.

[Karysa]

My condo complex has a lifeguard for our pool. :) I wouldn't feel comfortable swimming there by myself without one.

 

How many people are in your condo complex?

[Karysa]

Here in Hawaii we find that more people get into trouble at beaches with life guards because they feel totally without risk to do anything they want.

 

Hey nothing will happen to me...the life guard will take care of me....what the heck.

 

Life guards do not increase safety and can do nothing to prevent you or them from stupid acts. His response time is not guaranteed and his limited medical skill and equipment is not going to be of help in a great many cases. Many of the people the rescue end up dying... It looks good however and is good PR.

 

Where as on their own no life guards, people are more careful and thinking..non risk takers.

 

But the real problem here is we are ignoring the cause and thinking how to address the results of stupid behavior.

The kids died plain and simple because of lack of parenting and parent supervision and parental neglect.

 

Lets look at the real cause... not the effect.

 

Its not the cruise line, the grandma, the people on deck or passerby's...its good ole mom and dad.. turning their kids loose on a monster ship with on or inadequate/poor supervision and letting them go in a restricted area..

 

Put the personal responsibility back in life.... when people do dumb things they get hurt and die. Others take notice and change their lives... That's how it works.........

John Wayne, put it well," life is tough, its even tougher when your dumb"

 

Wow. I will leave most of this alone. Even if the result of children drowning on a cruiseship is because of a lack of parental supervision what about the rest of us on the ship. What about me ( selfish, I know I admitted this hours ago), I would rather be inconvenienced with a fenced and gated pool or pay extra for Lifeguards than to be on a ship where a child drowns. Think about poor "Joey"and "Max" waiting for "Sam" to meet them at the kids club after lunch. Think about them when they find out why he never showed or perhaps they saw him being resuscitated by the pool while they were on their way to lunch. My DD's lost a friend in a MVA at 15. It was devasting to them. I realize that deep friendships are probably not made on cruiseships but a tragedy such as a child drowning has got to affect a lot of people on a cruise.

 

I came up with the scenario because I think humanizing it may help people see just how awful being on a sailing when such a tragedy occurs would be.

[Zoey]

Lifeguard a/k/a Parent

[Karysa]

Lifeguard a/k/a Parent

 

Too bad kids can't chose their "Lifeguard a/k/a Parent", and by the grace of god go I (so far). Some kids need some help from others. Perhaps fencing in or providing lifeguards is the most effective way to help keep them safe around pools on a ship.

[Donna_In_India]

Disney does have lifeguards on their ships - after a child almost drowned last summer. The child survived - with brain damage.

 

I can't believe that anyone would think their cruise cost would go up that much to afford lifeguards. Seriously?? And it's not only children who drown. And....whether or not the parents are responsible - do you really think it's okay for a child to DIE because they have stupid, irresponsible parents??? What's wrong with some of you people?? :(

[2red4u]

As a parent of three children, one being an angel now, my heart goes out to them. Not knowing the circumstance, I do know that little one can escape you despite best supervision , speaking from from a parent's view of a Houdini(don't even get me started on her young escapes.). However any child of that age, regardless of swim abilities , needs an adult IN the pool with them. Life guard or not This mom and dad, and grandparent, will forever live with.... If only I had done...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[carol54]

Why do cruise ships not have lifeguards at the adult or children's pool? Wouldn't this be a liability issue?

 

Because unfortunately there are too many irresponsible parents. Parents who would drop their kids off at the pool and then go sit at a bar assuming someone else is watching their kids. And the responsible parents, who are watching their kids, end up not being able to enjoy the time with their children because of all the unsupervised kids.

 

That's why.

[cruiseapril]

This thread is called "why no lifeguards." It is an old thread which originally had nothing to do with the recent drowning. Evidently some people were concerned about this subject before the accident.

 

Pools are not like ocean beaches or rivers or lakes or ponds- they are man made, man-designed bodies of water. They are installed by the cruise lines. Therefore, the cruise lines need to do everything possible to make them safe, as they do with other things on a ship. (Personally, I think the ships we have been on have had good safety standards in general.)

 

Cruise pools which are for young children need to have lifeguards AND parents and other caretakers need to attend to their children AT ALL TIMES around the pools and elsewhere.

 

The whole idea is to protect children from accidents. We need to be pro-active.

Edited February 6, 2014 by cruiseapril